Re: Key bio metrics for baselining and tracking progress

[Guest guest]

Hi Wrigh:

Add:

Waist measurement (narrowest circumference) for waist to height, and

waist to hip, ratios

Abdomen circumference (at navel height) for BF% by US Navy method

Hip circumference (largest circumference below the waist)

Neck circumference (narrowest, sloping downwards) also for BF%

Height in socks, immediately after getting out of bed, at noon and

just before going to bed! Watch for shrinkage!

Weight, once a day only, at the same time in the AM. 6 AM? 8 AM?

with an empty bladder.

----------------------------

IMO weight should be measured every day without exception, and

plotted on a chart. Then your REAL weight is the line drawn through

the middle of the considerably fluctuations observations. All the

measurements above and below the line are aberrations that should be

ignored.

All the other measurements you will find very useful later, but need

only be taken occasionally - once every two weeks or once a month.

Rodney.

--- In , " wrigh455 " <wrigh455@...>

wrote:

>

> About to start CR, and I want to keep close tabs on the metrics

that I

> can actually track every day at home:

>

> 1. Weight

> 2. Body Fat/Water/Muscle

> 3. Blood pressure

>

> I apoligize if this has been discussed in the forums before, but

I'm

> asking for recommendations from those of you who have been

seriously

> doing this for years.

>

> The array of body fat monitors, scales with body fat/water/muscle

> measurements built in, hand-held body fat monitors, and arm cuff

versus

> wrist blood pressure monitors.

>

> Recommendations would be much appreciated.

>

> Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

This is excellent information--thank you for posting it. I have questions:

On Thu, December 14, 2006 2:31 pm, Rodney wrote:

> Waist measurement (narrowest circumference) for waist to height, and

> waist to hip, ratios

Is there and objective, certain definition of where a man's waist is? I have

much

trouble buying pants because the waist of most pants falls in a place that is

uncomfortable for me, much higher than what I think of as my waist. As a

result,

the trend for low-rise jeans turns out to be a good one for me. Low-rise pants

do

not rise " low " on me, but hit right where I want them to. I'd need something

like

" ultra low rise " if I wanted to be " sexy " (at 220lbs, not likely for another

45lbs

or so....). I guess I'm looking for a skeletal feature or something that I

should

measure from.

> Hip circumference (largest circumference below the waist)

Does " largest circumference " mean around the fattest part of my ass, or wherever

the

tape has to be to be over my hip joints?

Thanks!

--Chris

[Guest guest]

Rodney,

Great info - thanks!

I still want to monitor BF%, BMI, lean muscle, water content, and of

course blood pressure.

I would appreciate any opinions out there on what products are best;

your experiences with particular brands and models, good and bad.

Thanks!

> >

> > About to start CR, and I want to keep close tabs on the metrics

> that I

> > can actually track every day at home:

> >

> > 1. Weight

> > 2. Body Fat/Water/Muscle

> > 3. Blood pressure

> >

> > I apoligize if this has been discussed in the forums before, but

> I'm

> > asking for recommendations from those of you who have been

> seriously

> > doing this for years.

> >

> > The array of body fat monitors, scales with body fat/water/muscle

> > measurements built in, hand-held body fat monitors, and arm cuff

> versus

> > wrist blood pressure monitors.

> >

> > Recommendations would be much appreciated.

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris:

My understanding (subject to someone correcting me) is that a man's

waist, for the purpose of calculating health-related information, is

measured at the narrowest point wherever that is.

'Hip' is defined, as you put it, as: " the fattest part of your ass " .

Simply: the largest circumference, wherever that happens to be, below

your waist. This definition is the one used in the major

international study (I think its name was InterHeart, but I am not

sure about that) which found waist-to-hip ratio to be a far superior

measure of CVD risk than BMI.

Of course one of the tables in the database here was set up by

Francesca for people to add their measurements as a guide to help

others.

Rodney.

> > Waist measurement (narrowest circumference) for waist to height,

and

> > waist to hip, ratios

>

> Is there and objective, certain definition of where a man's waist

is? I have much

> trouble buying pants because the waist of most pants falls in a

place that is

> uncomfortable for me, much higher than what I think of as my

waist. As a result,

> the trend for low-rise jeans turns out to be a good one for me.

Low-rise pants do

> not rise " low " on me, but hit right where I want them to. I'd need

something like

> " ultra low rise " if I wanted to be " sexy " (at 220lbs, not likely

for another 45lbs

> or so....). I guess I'm looking for a skeletal feature or

something that I should

> measure from.

>

> > Hip circumference (largest circumference below the waist)

>

> Does " largest circumference " mean around the fattest part of my

ass, or wherever the

> tape has to be to be over my hip joints?

>

> Thanks!

> --Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Wrigh:

BMI is simple. BF%, LBM etc. is complicated unless you have a scale

that purports to measure it. I use the US Navy (approximate)

method. Check www.scientificpsychic.com for how to do that. Or you

can assume that two-thirds of the weight you lose or gain is fat and

one-third lean body mass. That has seemed to be a pretty good

assumption.

For blood pressure any Omron model should be excellent.

Rodney.

> > >

> > > About to start CR, and I want to keep close tabs on the metrics

> > that I

> > > can actually track every day at home:

> > >

> > > 1. Weight

> > > 2. Body Fat/Water/Muscle

> > > 3. Blood pressure

> > >

> > > I apoligize if this has been discussed in the forums before,

but

> > I'm

> > > asking for recommendations from those of you who have been

> > seriously

> > > doing this for years.

> > >

> > > The array of body fat monitors, scales with body

fat/water/muscle

> > > measurements built in, hand-held body fat monitors, and arm

cuff

> > versus

> > > wrist blood pressure monitors.

> > >

> > > Recommendations would be much appreciated.

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Long term, I monitor the following markers:

Mile Time (a marker for VO2max)

Blood Pressure

WHR

Albumin

BUN (kidney function)

Uric Acid

Iron (pro-oxidant)

Glucose

Trig/HDL

DHEAs

Total Test (for males)

You could also monitor WBC's.

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for your post. Can you advice us on how

you negotiate with your doctor to order these studies,

or do you go to a " doc-in-the-box " clinic and order them?

I just had my physical and went with a similar list, but

I met with resistance from the doctor to do anything

beyond the standard panels.

So let me roleplay here a bit. Should I go back, when

the doctor is ready to discuss the results of the

basic panel and say " I would like to do a test

of at least [ ], [ ] and [ ] to establish a baseline.

I know I don't have any disease for which this

is necessary and understand that accordingly

you cannot justify that the insurance pay for it,

so help me figure out how I can do the study

and how much it will cost so that I can budget

for it. " Is that what I should do? If so, which

ones of your list should I prioritize. I'm an

architect, so I won't know the meaning of one

from the other so readily. Albumin? DHEA?

BUN? I think 4 or 5 of the others are covered

in the basic metabolic panel.

Cheers

Arturo

Re: Key bio metrics for baselining and tracking progress

Posted by: " dspelts " david@... dspelts

Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:09 pm (PST)

Long term, I monitor the following markers:

Mile Time (a marker for VO2max)

Blood Pressure

WHR

Albumin

BUN (kidney function)

Uric Acid

Iron (pro-oxidant)

Glucose

Trig/HDL

DHEAs

Total Test (for males)

You could also monitor WBC's.

[Guest guest]

When you go to a physician, you have a right to ask for certain tests. You are the " customer " so to speak. If you're not happy with your doctor, for goodness sakes, go get another (one that is more " into " your philosophy). I'm appalled when people don't know how to assert their basic rights. Get a backbone!

on 12/24/2006 2:40 PM, Arturo Veve at volae@... wrote:

Hi

Thanks for your post. Can you advice us on how

you negotiate with your doctor to order these studies,

or do you go to a " doc-in-the-box " clinic and order them?

I just had my physical and went with a similar list, but

I met with resistance from the doctor to do anything

beyond the standard panels.

[Guest guest]

This approach doesn't work at my HMO. I'm 54 years old and have been

fighting to get a colonoscopy for years. I can have one if I want to

pay for it myself, but otherwise, I have to wait until age 55. I

tried the insurance company and the doctors with no luck. I'm stuck

with this HMO in order for my husband to retire with health benefits.

Diane

>

> Hi

> Thanks for your post. Can you advice us on how

> you negotiate with your doctor to order these studies,

> or do you go to a " doc-in-the-box " clinic and order them?

> I just had my physical and went with a similar list, but

> I met with resistance from the doctor to do anything

> beyond the standard panels.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca

With all due respect, you probably have access to great medical care.

I have seen an erosion of medical care over the years as the costs

of the PPOs and HMOs have increased for employers, and employees

have to shoulder greater costs - higher co-pays, denial of services,

etc. I used the word " doctor " generously in describing my case.

I go to a medical practice, but I'm only seen by a registered

physician's assistant. That is the person who is resisiting further

studies for me. She has however given me the green light for

a colonoscopy, although, as with Diane's experience, I have to

find out if the insurance will cover it, and how much is the copay.

I don't have a problem with my physican's assistant - she is

great.

When I lived in San , Texas and in Miami, Fl, I had

relatives who were health care practitioners practicing there.

Accordingly, I got good referrals. I don't have the same contacts

in San Francisco. So my question is valid as to how someone

will approach their doctor creatively to get some studies done,

if we want to establish them as benchmarks in Calorie Restriction.

I prefer to learn to be a negotiator than to find a different doctor.

There is some danger of jumping around medical care practitioners,

in my opionion, considering also that in my case, I have lived in 4

cities in10 years. That leads to lack of continuity in medical history.

Cheers and Happy Holidays,

Arturo

Re: Key bio metrics for baselining and tracking progress

Posted by: " Francesca Skelton " fskelton@... fskelton2002

Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:55 am (PST)

When you go to a physician, you have a right to ask for certain tests. You

are the " customer " so to speak. If you're not happy with your doctor, for

goodness sakes, go get another (one that is more " into " your philosophy).

I'm appalled when people don't know how to assert their basic rights. Get a

backbone!

[Guest guest]

The hormone tests are pretty expensive. You'll probably have to foot

the bill for those unless you can show medical necessity. Or just

skip 'em.

The markers I use are general aging markers, not necessarily specific

to CR. For CR, you could do something as simple as WBC and lipids.

[Guest guest]

The best price I've found for hormones is at : http://www.canaryclub.org/content/view/277/97/

You don't need a doctor. You get 24 hour testing of cortisol (4 times in

24 hours), includes sex hormones, thyroid, dhea for $141. I think they also

provide a phone consult.

You will have to foot the bill. Just my opinion... I think some of these

tests are better than blood labs, as you can't get 4 x 24 hr cortisol testing

in blood labs. Also, the theory that the saliva tests what is in the tissue

(vs. blood testing what is in the blood) holds some merit IMO.

dspelts wrote:

The hormone tests are pretty expensive. You'll probably have to foot

the bill for those unless you can show medical necessity. Or just

skip 'em.

[Guest guest]

Best markers in my opinion:

Hormones: Thyroid (TSH, T3, T4, RT3), gH, Testosterone, Estradiol

Glycation: HbA1c, fasting glucose, fasting insulin

Inflammation: CRP, insulin, homocysteine (if you can get individual

cytokines, even betteR

Marginally useful: Lipids: HDL, LDL, vLDL, Lp(a). You could also check

liver function (AST, ALT), Creatinine, BUN, heavy metal loads, etc.