Re: Fw: Pandora's box?

[Guest guest]

Vern;

“His complaints detail

a program designed to mislead students into accepting insurance fraud and

jeopardizing patient safety through a system of false diagnosis and

overutilization. Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and

one faculty member who died as a result of following the program. Graduates of

this program alone make up 20 percent of all practicing chiropractors.”

This is a very interesting statement for someone to make. I wonder

what the heck it means. Do you have any idea what this “program”

is and how it managed to kill two chiropractic students and a faculty member.

I recall when we were in junior clinic in the 1970’s and working to

refine our rough clinical skills. Amazingly, that didn’t kill any

students while we were in school, so I’m wondering just what sort of

program this Botnick is talking about.

Best regards,

S. Feinberg, D.C.

From: Vern Saboe DC

[mailto:vas@...]

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004

8:58 AM

Oregondcs

Subject: Fw: Pandora's

box?

F.Y.I., does this validate or not that there is a % of

colleagues who indeed " over-utilize " and as such the need for us to

finally address this issue...comments??

Though I have no idea how accurate this post is, I really

would like your comments.

Vern Saboe

Pandora's box?

Twelve Percent Of Practicing U.S.

Chiropractors Unqualified, Says Botnick DC

For

Immediate Release

ELIZABETH,

N.J./EWORLDWIRE/Nov. 15, 2004 --- The sole accrediting agency for U.S.

chiropractic institutions, the Council on Chiropractic Education, recently

admitted to the U.S. Department of Education that thousands of chiropractors

were granted degrees from accredited programs that did not meet the minimum

requirements for practice, raising patient safety concerns throughout the

nation.

In a vaguely worded open letter dated November 8, 2002, the agency stated that

between 1995 and 2002 its own Board of Directors had been influenced by outside

agencies and that the presidents of an undisclosed number of chiropractic

programs influenced its accreditation decisions. The agency refused to disclose

the exact programs and numbers of students involved, but a conservative

estimate shows that at least 12 percent of chiropractors practicing in the U.S.A. are

affected.

In complaints submitted to the U.S. Department of Education, Botnick DC,

a 1996 honors graduate from Life

University, documented

extensive corruption and abusive practice in his program. His complaints detail

a program designed to mislead students into accepting insurance fraud and

jeopardizing patient safety through a system of false diagnosis and

overutilization. Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and

one faculty member who died as a result of following the program. Graduates of

this program alone make up 20 percent of all practicing chiropractors.

The accreditor initially stonewalled Botnick's complaint, but a demand by the

U.S. Department of Education confirmed its accuracy. So far the accreditor has

made no public admission of the problems, however. Because of the lack of

action by the agency, state boards have failed to remove unqualified

chiropractors from practice. In fact one board, the Georgia Board of

Chiropractic Examiners, comprised mainly of Life University

graduates, shelved a request to investigate the matter.

HTML:

http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/wr/111504/10801.htm

PDF: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/pdf/111504/10801.pdf

ONLINE NEWSROOM: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm

LOGO: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm

CONTACT:

Botnick, DC

, NJ 07202

PHONE. 908-345-0856

EMAIL: aljbotnick@...

KEYWORDS: chiropractic, chiropractors, Life University,

Council, Chiropractic, Accreditation, Georgia, Board, Examiners, scam,

fraud, corruption, accreditation, alternative, medicine

SOURCE: Botnick DC

-- Warren T. Jahn, DC, MPS, FACO, DACBSP, DABFPBoard Certified Chiropractic Orthopedist and Sports Physician Forensic Examiner Roswell GA 30076770-740-1999770-619-3203 fax " I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his own opinion,however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies another this rightmakes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the rightof changing it. " -- Paine, 1783 For information on the College on Forensic Sciences (CFS) go tohttp://www.forensic-sciences.org or call 770-740-1999 This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the useof the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information thatis legally privileged, confidential, and exempted from disclosure. If you arenot the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message, or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone or by return e-mail, then delete themessage.

OregonDCs

rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose

of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal

attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and

last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could

end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy,

print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been

removed.

[Guest guest]

Vern,

This sounds a lot like a hoax, either at the source (Botnick) or manufactured tolook like an official communique of some kind. If you read the claims carefully they don't sound right; the minimum requirement for practice is not determined bythe CCE but rather by each state board that tests each applicant for licensure. If a letter was sent out from the CCE in 2002 why is this the first that we are hearing of it. Who did they send the letter to? How would submitting false diagnosescause 3 people to die? This is really shaky sounding to me. I would like to know moreabout the underlying documents, but I am calling BS on it at first blush.

D Freeman PhD DC MPH Forensic Trauma Consultants Mailing address: 205 Liberty Street NE, Suite B Salem, OR 97301 503 586-0127 fax 503 586-0192 cell 503 871-0715 drmfreeman@...

-----Original Message-----From: Vern Saboe DC [mailto:vas@...]Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:58 AMOregondcs Subject: Fw: Pandora's box?

F.Y.I., does this validate or not that there is a % of colleagues who indeed "over-utilize" and as such the need for us to finally address this issue...comments??

Though I have no idea how accurate this post is, I really would like your comments.

Vern Saboe

Pandora's box?

Twelve Percent Of Practicing U.S. Chiropractors Unqualified, Says Botnick DC

For Immediate Release

ELIZABETH, N.J./EWORLDWIRE/Nov. 15, 2004 --- The sole accrediting agency for U.S. chiropractic institutions, the Council on Chiropractic Education, recently admitted to the U.S. Department of Education that thousands of chiropractors were granted degrees from accredited programs that did not meet the minimum requirements for practice, raising patient safety concerns throughout the nation. In a vaguely worded open letter dated November 8, 2002, the agency stated that between 1995 and 2002 its own Board of Directors had been influenced by outside agencies and that the presidents of an undisclosed number of chiropractic programs influenced its accreditation decisions. The agency refused to disclose the exact programs and numbers of students involved, but a conservative estimate shows that at least 12 percent of chiropractors practicing in the U.S.A. are affected. In complaints submitted to the U.S. Department of Education, Botnick DC, a 1996 honors graduate from Life University, documented extensive corruption and abusive practice in his program. His complaints detail a program designed to mislead students into accepting insurance fraud and jeopardizing patient safety through a system of false diagnosis and overutilization. Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and one faculty member who died as a result of following the program. Graduates of this program alone make up 20 percent of all practicing chiropractors. The accreditor initially stonewalled Botnick's complaint, but a demand by the U.S. Department of Education confirmed its accuracy. So far the accreditor has made no public admission of the problems, however. Because of the lack of action by the agency, state boards have failed to remove unqualified chiropractors from practice. In fact one board, the Georgia Board of Chiropractic Examiners, comprised mainly of Life University graduates, shelved a request to investigate the matter.

HTML: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/wr/111504/10801.htm PDF: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/pdf/111504/10801.pdf ONLINE NEWSROOM: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm LOGO: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm

CONTACT: Botnick, DC, NJ 07202PHONE. 908-345-0856EMAIL: aljbotnick@...

KEYWORDS: chiropractic, chiropractors, Life University, Council, Chiropractic, Accreditation, Georgia, Board, Examiners, scam, fraud, corruption, accreditation, alternative, medicine

SOURCE: Botnick DC-- Warren T. Jahn, DC, MPS, FACO, DACBSP, DABFP

Board Certified Chiropractic Orthopedist and Sports Physician

Forensic Examiner

Roswell GA 30076

770-740-1999

770-619-3203 fax

"I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his own opinion,

however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies another this right

makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right

of changing it." -- Paine, 1783

For information on the College on Forensic Sciences (CFS) go to

http://www.forensic-sciences.org or call 770-740-1999

This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the use

of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that

is legally privileged, confidential, and exempted from disclosure. If you are

not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message, or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone or by return e-mail, then delete the

message. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Only if one is LOOKING for further reason to "validate" sanctions, limits, persecution and prosecution of the admittedly OTHER 80-88% of chiropractors not implicated in this "program."

A press release like this doesn't "validate" anything!

Much less a knee jerk, throw the baby out with the bath water, vilify an entire profession (from the students, to the schools, to the State and Federal licensing boards, to the individual field practitioners) reaction to an ACCUSATION of chiropractic programs being "influenced by outside agencies" (doesn't even sound chiropractic to me).

Let's try to keep an level head here and not JUMP on this as the "next best reason" to Witch-Hunt the profession, beat ourselves up, and persecute ourselves for our obvious lack of clinical, ethical, moral, and otherwise human values.

Sheez! Let's all just STEP AWAY FROM THE BANDWAGON!!

RR.

Pandora's box?

Twelve Percent Of Practicing U.S. Chiropractors Unqualified, Says Botnick DC

For Immediate Release

ELIZABETH, N.J./EWORLDWIRE/Nov. 15, 2004 --- The sole accrediting agency for U.S. chiropractic institutions, the Council on Chiropractic Education, recently admitted to the U.S. Department of Education that thousands of chiropractors were granted degrees from accredited programs that did not meet the minimum requirements for practice, raising patient safety concerns throughout the nation. In a vaguely worded open letter dated November 8, 2002, the agency stated that between 1995 and 2002 its own Board of Directors had been influenced by outside agencies and that the presidents of an undisclosed number of chiropractic programs influenced its accreditation decisions. The agency refused to disclose the exact programs and numbers of students involved, but a conservative estimate shows that at least 12 percent of chiropractors practicing in the U.S.A. are affected. In complaints submitted to the U.S. Department of Education, Botnick DC, a 1996 honors graduate from Life University, documented extensive corruption and abusive practice in his program. His complaints detail a program designed to mislead students into accepting insurance fraud and jeopardizing patient safety through a system of false diagnosis and overutilization. Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and one faculty member who died as a result of following the program. Graduates of this program alone make up 20 percent of all practicing chiropractors. The accreditor initially stonewalled Botnick's complaint, but a demand by the U.S. Department of Education confirmed its accuracy. So far the accreditor has made no public admission of the problems, however. Because of the lack of action by the agency, state boards have failed to remove unqualified chiropractors from practice. In fact one board, the Georgia Board of Chiropractic Examiners, comprised mainly of Life University graduates, shelved a request to investigate the matter.

HTML: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/wr/111504/10801.htm PDF: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/pdf/111504/10801.pdf ONLINE NEWSROOM: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm LOGO: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm

CONTACT: Botnick, DC, NJ 07202PHONE. 908-345-0856EMAIL: aljbotnick@...

KEYWORDS: chiropractic, chiropractors, Life University, Council, Chiropractic, Accreditation, Georgia, Board, Examiners, scam, fraud, corruption, accreditation, alternative, medicine

SOURCE: Botnick DC-- Warren T. Jahn, DC, MPS, FACO, DACBSP, DABFP

Board Certified Chiropractic Orthopedist and Sports Physician

Forensic Examiner

Roswell GA 30076

770-740-1999

770-619-3203 fax

"I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his own opinion,

however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies another this right

makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right

of changing it." -- Paine, 1783

For information on the College on Forensic Sciences (CFS) go to

http://www.forensic-sciences.org or call 770-740-1999

This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the use

of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that

is legally privileged, confidential, and exempted from disclosure. If you are

not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message, or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone or by return e-mail, then delete the

message. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

My wife thinks I overutilize and she has several categories:

Jokes;

So called jokes;

Swear words (even if occurrence drops to once per month it's still too much

for her);

Flexing my so called muscles for her after a shower;

And of course:

The remote!

Early studies indicate she is biased by a total lack of a Y chromosome!

(Dr. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

503-635-6246

On 11/16/04 8:58 AM, " Vern Saboe DC " <vas@...> wrote:

> F.Y.I., does this validate or not that there is a % of colleagues who indeed

> " over-utilize " and as such the need for us to finally address this

> issue...comments??

>

> Though I have no idea how accurate this post is, I really would like your

> comments.

>

> Vern Saboe

> Pandora's box?

>

>

> Twelve Percent Of Practicing U.S. Chiropractors Unqualified, Says

> Botnick DC

>

> For Immediate Release

>

> ELIZABETH, N.J./EWORLDWIRE/Nov. 15, 2004 --- The sole accrediting agency for

> U.S. chiropractic institutions, the Council on Chiropractic Education,

> recently admitted to the U.S. Department of Education that thousands of

> chiropractors were granted degrees from accredited programs that did not meet

> the minimum requirements for practice, raising patient safety concerns

> throughout the nation.

>

> In a vaguely worded open letter dated November 8, 2002, the agency stated that

> between 1995 and 2002 its own Board of Directors had been influenced by

> outside agencies and that the presidents of an undisclosed number of

> chiropractic programs influenced its accreditation decisions. The agency

> refused to disclose the exact programs and numbers of students involved, but a

> conservative estimate shows that at least 12 percent of chiropractors

> practicing in the U.S.A. are affected.

>

> In complaints submitted to the U.S. Department of Education, Botnick DC,

> a 1996 honors graduate from Life University, documented extensive corruption

> and abusive practice in his program. His complaints detail a program designed

> to mislead students into accepting insurance fraud and jeopardizing patient

> safety through a system of false diagnosis and overutilization. Botnick's

> complaint included documentation of two students and one faculty member who

> died as a result of following the program. Graduates of this program alone

> make up 20 percent of all practicing chiropractors.

>

> The accreditor initially stonewalled Botnick's complaint, but a demand by the

> U.S. Department of Education confirmed its accuracy. So far the accreditor has

> made no public admission of the problems, however. Because of the lack of

> action by the agency, state boards have failed to remove unqualified

> chiropractors from practice. In fact one board, the Georgia Board of

> Chiropractic Examiners, comprised mainly of Life University graduates, shelved

> a request to investigate the matter.

>

>

> HTML: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/wr/111504/10801.htm

> PDF: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/pdf/111504/10801.pdf

> ONLINE NEWSROOM: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm

> LOGO: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm

>

>

> CONTACT:

> Botnick, DC

> , NJ 07202

> PHONE. 908-345-0856

> EMAIL: aljbotnick@...

>

> KEYWORDS: chiropractic, chiropractors, Life University, Council, Chiropractic,

> Accreditation, Georgia, Board, Examiners, scam, fraud, corruption,

> accreditation, alternative, medicine

>

> SOURCE: Botnick DC

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/16/2004 10:15:36 AM US Mountain Standard Time, vas@... writes:

Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and one faculty member who died as a result of following the program.

Definately amateurs. At my school we would kill twice that many by lunch time every day.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

I agree seemed suspect to me but it was the referent yet again to "over-utilization" excessive treatment that I was hammering about.

Vern

Pandora's box?

Twelve Percent Of Practicing U.S. Chiropractors Unqualified, Says Botnick DC

For Immediate Release

ELIZABETH, N.J./EWORLDWIRE/Nov. 15, 2004 --- The sole accrediting agency for U.S. chiropractic institutions, the Council on Chiropractic Education, recently admitted to the U.S. Department of Education that thousands of chiropractors were granted degrees from accredited programs that did not meet the minimum requirements for practice, raising patient safety concerns throughout the nation. In a vaguely worded open letter dated November 8, 2002, the agency stated that between 1995 and 2002 its own Board of Directors had been influenced by outside agencies and that the presidents of an undisclosed number of chiropractic programs influenced its accreditation decisions. The agency refused to disclose the exact programs and numbers of students involved, but a conservative estimate shows that at least 12 percent of chiropractors practicing in the U.S.A. are affected. In complaints submitted to the U.S. Department of Education, Botnick DC, a 1996 honors graduate from Life University, documented extensive corruption and abusive practice in his program. His complaints detail a program designed to mislead students into accepting insurance fraud and jeopardizing patient safety through a system of false diagnosis and overutilization. Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and one faculty member who died as a result of following the program. Graduates of this program alone make up 20 percent of all practicing chiropractors. The accreditor initially stonewalled Botnick's complaint, but a demand by the U.S. Department of Education confirmed its accuracy. So far the accreditor has made no public admission of the problems, however. Because of the lack of action by the agency, state boards have failed to remove unqualified chiropractors from practice. In fact one board, the Georgia Board of Chiropractic Examiners, comprised mainly of Life University graduates, shelved a request to investigate the matter.

HTML: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/wr/111504/10801.htm PDF: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/pdf/111504/10801.pdf ONLINE NEWSROOM: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm LOGO: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm

CONTACT: Botnick, DC, NJ 07202PHONE. 908-345-0856EMAIL: aljbotnick@...

KEYWORDS: chiropractic, chiropractors, Life University, Council, Chiropractic, Accreditation, Georgia, Board, Examiners, scam, fraud, corruption, accreditation, alternative, medicine

SOURCE: Botnick DC-- Warren T. Jahn, DC, MPS, FACO, DACBSP, DABFP

Board Certified Chiropractic Orthopedist and Sports Physician

Forensic Examiner

Roswell GA 30076

770-740-1999

770-619-3203 fax

"I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his own opinion,

however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies another this right

makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right

of changing it." -- Paine, 1783

For information on the College on Forensic Sciences (CFS) go to

http://www.forensic-sciences.org or call 770-740-1999

This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the use

of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that

is legally privileged, confidential, and exempted from disclosure. If you are

not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message, or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone or by return e-mail, then delete the

message. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Ya...well as indicated I'm not sure of the accuracy of this report....again it was the mention of "over-utilization" that I wanted to bring up.

Also I met with the lobbyist for SAIF Larry and the "perception" of "over-utilization" was that we had a % of the profession who "got caught with their hands in the cookie jar." He was of course referring to the fraud cases and that this resulted in a lasting perception.

Vern Saboe

Pandora's box?

Twelve Percent Of Practicing U.S. Chiropractors Unqualified, Says Botnick DC

For Immediate Release

ELIZABETH, N.J./EWORLDWIRE/Nov. 15, 2004 --- The sole accrediting agency for U.S. chiropractic institutions, the Council on Chiropractic Education, recently admitted to the U.S. Department of Education that thousands of chiropractors were granted degrees from accredited programs that did not meet the minimum requirements for practice, raising patient safety concerns throughout the nation. In a vaguely worded open letter dated November 8, 2002, the agency stated that between 1995 and 2002 its own Board of Directors had been influenced by outside agencies and that the presidents of an undisclosed number of chiropractic programs influenced its accreditation decisions. The agency refused to disclose the exact programs and numbers of students involved, but a conservative estimate shows that at least 12 percent of chiropractors practicing in the U.S.A. are affected. In complaints submitted to the U.S. Department of Education, Botnick DC, a 1996 honors graduate from Life University, documented extensive corruption and abusive practice in his program. His complaints detail a program designed to mislead students into accepting insurance fraud and jeopardizing patient safety through a system of false diagnosis and overutilization. Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and one faculty member who died as a result of following the program. Graduates of this program alone make up 20 percent of all practicing chiropractors. The accreditor initially stonewalled Botnick's complaint, but a demand by the U.S. Department of Education confirmed its accuracy. So far the accreditor has made no public admission of the problems, however. Because of the lack of action by the agency, state boards have failed to remove unqualified chiropractors from practice. In fact one board, the Georgia Board of Chiropractic Examiners, comprised mainly of Life University graduates, shelved a request to investigate the matter.

HTML: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/wr/111504/10801.htm PDF: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/pdf/111504/10801.pdf ONLINE NEWSROOM: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm LOGO: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm

CONTACT: Botnick, DC, NJ 07202PHONE. 908-345-0856EMAIL: aljbotnick@...

KEYWORDS: chiropractic, chiropractors, Life University, Council, Chiropractic, Accreditation, Georgia, Board, Examiners, scam, fraud, corruption, accreditation, alternative, medicine

SOURCE: Botnick DC

-- Warren T. Jahn, DC, MPS, FACO, DACBSP, DABFPBoard Certified Chiropractic Orthopedist and Sports Physician Forensic Examiner Roswell GA 30076770-740-1999770-619-3203 fax "I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his own opinion,however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies another this rightmakes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the rightof changing it." -- Paine, 1783 For information on the College on Forensic Sciences (CFS) go tohttp://www.forensic-sciences.org or call 770-740-1999 This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the useof the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information thatis legally privileged, confidential, and exempted from disclosure. If you arenot the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message, or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone or by return e-mail, then delete themessage.

OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

"caught with their hand in the cookie jar", is that pot calling the kettle black or what?

Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians

730-D SE Oak St

Hillsboro, OR 97123

(503)640-3724 >From: "Vern Saboe DC" <vas@...> ><Oregondcs >," S. Feinberg, D.C." <feinberg@...> >Subject: Re: Fw: Pandora's box? >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:42:45 -0800 > >Ya...well as indicated I'm not sure of the accuracy of this report....again it was the mention of "over-utilization" that I wanted to bring up. > >Also I met with the lobbyist for SAIF Larry and the "perception" of "over-utilization" was that we had a % of the profession who "got caught with their hands in the cookie jar." He was of course referring to the fraud cases and that this resulted in a lasting perception. > >Vern Saboe > Pandora's box? > > > > Twelve Percent Of Practicing U.S. Chiropractors Unqualified, Says Botnick DC > > For Immediate Release > > ELIZABETH, N.J./EWORLDWIRE/Nov. 15, 2004 --- The sole accrediting agency for U.S. chiropractic institutions, the Council on Chiropractic Education, recently admitted to the U.S. Department of Education that thousands of chiropractors were granted degrees from accredited programs that did not meet the minimum requirements for practice, raising patient safety concerns throughout the nation. > > In a vaguely worded open letter dated November 8, 2002, the agency stated that between 1995 and 2002 its own Board of Directors had been influenced by outside agencies and that the presidents of an undisclosed number of chiropractic programs influenced its accreditation decisions. The agency refused to disclose the exact programs and numbers of students involved, but a conservative estimate shows that at least 12 percent of chiropractors practicing in the U.S.A. are affected. > > In complaints submitted to the U.S. Department of Education, Botnick DC, a 1996 honors graduate from Life University, documented extensive corruption and abusive practice in his program. His complaints detail a program designed to mislead students into accepting insurance fraud and jeopardizing patient safety through a system of false diagnosis and overutilization. Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and one faculty member who died as a result of following the program. Graduates of this program alone make up 20 percent of all practicing chiropractors. > > The accreditor initially stonewalled Botnick's complaint, but a demand by the U.S. Department of Education confirmed its accuracy. So far the accreditor has made no public admission of the problems, however. Because of the lack of action by the agency, state boards have failed to remove unqualified chiropractors from practice. In fact one board, the Georgia Board of Chiropractic Examiners, comprised mainly of Life University graduates, shelved a request to investigate the matter. > > HTML: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/wr/111504/10801.htm > PDF: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/pdf/111504/10801.pdf > ONLINE NEWSROOM: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm > LOGO: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/305204.htm > > CONTACT: > Botnick, DC > , NJ 07202 > PHONE. 908-345-0856 > EMAIL: aljbotnick@... > > KEYWORDS: chiropractic, chiropractors, Life University, Council, Chiropractic, Accreditation, Georgia, Board, Examiners, scam, fraud, corruption, accreditation, alternative, medicine > > SOURCE: Botnick DC > > > > > >-- Warren T. Jahn, DC, MPS, FACO, DACBSP, DABFPBoard Certified Chiropractic Orthopedist and Sports Physician Forensic Examiner Roswell GA 30076770-740-1999770-619-3203 fax "I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his own opinion,however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies another this rightmakes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the rightof changing it." -- Paine, 1783 For information on the College on Forensic Sciences (CFS) go tohttp://www.forensic-sciences.org or call 770-740-1999 This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the useof the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information thatis legally privileged, confidential, and exempted from disclosure. If you arenot the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message, or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately by telephone or by return e-mail, then delete themessage. > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > >

[Guest guest]

WSCC killed me several times, as I recall......at least I seem to remember smelling that way.

Rod

Re: Fw: Pandora's box?

In a message dated 11/16/2004 10:15:36 AM US Mountain Standard Time, vas@... writes:

Botnick's complaint included documentation of two students and one faculty member who died as a result of following the program.Definately amateurs. At my school we would kill twice that many by lunch time every day. Anglen OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

I have waited to respond until I asked a good friend, who has been

deeply involved in both the CCE and the ACC to review this article.

He felt that this was not an authentic report, in fact had not heard

about it.

He did feel that the program at Life, which is no doubt where this

article is leaning, was seriously deficient in several competencies.

But also felt that Life had graduates in every state so they had to

pass state boards somehow. He also felt it was a function of some in

the profession transitioning from anti-academic and anti-science, to

a more progressive and acceptable healing

art.

He stated that " The charge that the presidents facilitated the

inadequacies of some of the chiropractic programs is not accurate.

CCE did everything possible to enforce the standards but the courts

frustrated those efforts. This is not to say that some presidents

did not oppose the standards and were willing supporters of efforts

to weaken them but the supporting majority prevailed in most cases. "

I don't think this report is an indictment of our profession as to

where it is going, but possibly a problem of our past. We can only

hope we learn something from all of this. I hope his input is of

some help.

My two cents worth.

Grice, DC

Albany, OR