RE: Medical Costs in the Oregon Worker's Comp System

[Guest guest]

Hi Vern,

Here is an example for you to use: one of my fibromyalgia patients (who didn't yet understand what non-surgical care can do for inflammed organs...my error in education) had her gallbladder removed, dehisced, over the next 7 months went from infection to infection to infection. In a recent recall-old-patients project, I spoke with her and reminded her about the empowerment of structural care....she came back in and, literally, within 2 weeks was out of infection, sleeping through the night, feeling stronger and 'as though I am finally healing'. She is starting to exercise again and can look forward to going back to her job within the next 10 days. She ended up apologizing to me for letting herself not get back in.

This is an example to me of why it is so important to teach our patients what 'turning the power on' will do. They have such a narrow view of our potential or usefulness. This lady will, from her experience, now be a patient for life. And I am to be faulted for allowing her to muddle in illness/infection/pain for that 7 months.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DCFibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon59 Santa Clara St.,Eugene, Oregon, 97404541-689-0935

"Medical Costs in the Oregon Worker's Comp System"

So dear colleagues how about a discussion on cost shifting since 1990 and SB 1197...here are some salient statistics from the July 2001 Dept. of Consumer & Business Services "Research & Analysis Section." I'm in contact with the head fellow and will be getting 2002 and the 2004 (in about two months) stats as well.

Total compensation, medical payments by provider type...total payments $58, 305,000 of that ..if my math is correct 93.6% or $54.6 million were for direct medical services! Here is the breakdown:

Medical doctor $17.4 million or 29.8%

Hospital outpatient and inpatient $22 million or 37.7%

"Other medical" whatever the heck that is? $6.3 million or 10.8% (BTW we don't have hospital privileges)

Physical therapists $3.7 million or 6.4% (we perform are own physiotheraputics and therapeutic exercises etc.)

Pharmacy $3.2 million or 5.5% (we of course pride ourselves on not giving out drugs and use more natural less toxic approaches)

Radiologists $1.9 million or 3.4% (we take and read our own x-rays....the medics almost always have a medical radiologist read there films)

The above totals $54.6 million or 93.6% of the total costs. Now guess what the entire chiropractic profession was paid in this same period...what %....

Drumroll please..... $1.5 million or 2.6% So the carriers paid...if you add "other medical" nearly 35 times more for medical doctors.....those folks who are poorly trained to handle common musculoskeletal injuries namely lower back and neck.

PTs were paid more than 3X's what chiropractors were paid and we perform our own PT...

Drugs...those lovely drugs of which don't prescribe...the system paid nearly three times as much for them then our entire profession.

Radiologists paying radiologist to read films got more than our entire profession and we read our own films!

Here is one for you the system actually paid more for IMEs then it paid DCs yep IMEs took in $1.8 million!

One of the interesting down sides of MDs being poorly trained in back and necks is that they will order MRIs at a drop of a hat in hopes of "finding something" or because the patient simply wants one! The W/C system spent $907,000 on them alone...Vs., only $511,000 for chiropractic spinal manipulative therapy!!!!

Oh...and when they find that incidental bulge on the MRI...the system paid $2.2 million for spinal surgeries of which on a conservative scale 50% were probably not needed!

Now how's about that new four year prospective Sarnat HMO study just published in JMPT were chiropractic physicians in the driver seat as the PCP facilitated the following savings:

43% reduction in hospital admissions

58.4% reduction in hospital days

43.2 reduction in outpatient surgeries and procedures (eg., MRIs)

.....and my personal favorite 51.8% reduction in drug costs!

....do ya think this could make a case for our proposed Worker's Compensation Cost Comparison Study????

.....do ya think the Majority Leader (a chiropractic patient) and the other key folks are going to get an ear full this Thursday during our meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vern SaboeOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Vern, Is there any way to get a break down of the 'conditions' diagnosed that are used in this study ? If we could sort out the NMS conditions then we could do a better comparison of our cost saving ability. sharron fuchs dc

-----Original Message-----From: Vern Saboe DC [mailto:vas@...]Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:08 AMOregondcs Subject: "Medical Costs in the Oregon Worker's Comp System"

So dear colleagues how about a discussion on cost shifting since 1990 and SB 1197...here are some salient statistics from the July 2001 Dept. of Consumer & Business Services "Research & Analysis Section." I'm in contact with the head fellow and will be getting 2002 and the 2004 (in about two months) stats as well.

Total compensation, medical payments by provider type...total payments $58, 305,000 of that ...if my math is correct 93.6% or $54.6 million were for direct medical services! Here is the breakdown:

Medical doctor $17.4 million or 29.8%

Hospital outpatient and inpatient $22 million or 37.7%

"Other medical" whatever the heck that is? $6.3 million or 10.8% (BTW we don't have hospital privileges)

Physical therapists $3.7 million or 6.4% (we perform are own physiotheraputics and therapeutic exercises etc.)

Pharmacy $3.2 million or 5.5% (we of course pride ourselves on not giving out drugs and use more natural less toxic approaches)

Radiologists $1.9 million or 3.4% (we take and read our own x-rays....the medics almost always have a medical radiologist read there films)

The above totals $54.6 million or 93.6% of the total costs. Now guess what the entire chiropractic profession was paid in this same period...what %....

Drumroll please..... $1.5 million or 2.6% So the carriers paid...if you add "other medical" nearly 35 times more for medical doctors.....those folks who are poorly trained to handle common musculoskeletal injuries namely lower back and neck.

PTs were paid more than 3X's what chiropractors were paid and we perform our own PT...

Drugs...those lovely drugs of which don't prescribe...the system paid nearly three times as much for them then our entire profession.

Radiologists paying radiologist to read films got more than our entire profession and we read our own films!

Here is one for you the system actually paid more for IMEs then it paid DCs yep IMEs took in $1.8 million!

One of the interesting down sides of MDs being poorly trained in back and necks is that they will order MRIs at a drop of a hat in hopes of "finding something" or because the patient simply wants one! The W/C system spent $907,000 on them alone...Vs., only $511,000 for chiropractic spinal manipulative therapy!!!!

Oh...and when they find that incidental bulge on the MRI...the system paid $2.2 million for spinal surgeries of which on a conservative scale 50% were probably not needed!

Now how's about that new four year prospective Sarnat HMO study just published in JMPT were chiropractic physicians in the driver seat as the PCP facilitated the following savings:

43% reduction in hospital admissions

58.4% reduction in hospital days

43.2 reduction in outpatient surgeries and procedures (eg., MRIs)

.....and my personal favorite 51.8% reduction in drug costs!

....do ya think this could make a case for our proposed Worker's Compensation Cost Comparison Study????

.....do ya think the Majority Leader (a chiropractic patient) and the other key folks are going to get an ear full this Thursday during our meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vern SaboeOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

True enough but in reality a very good % of Work related injuries are indeed NMS conditions. I'll check to see as per condition.

Vern

RE: "Medical Costs in the Oregon Worker's Comp System"

Vern, Is there any way to get a break down of the 'conditions' diagnosed that are used in this study ? If we could sort out the NMS conditions then we could do a better comparison of our cost saving ability. sharron fuchs dc

-----Original Message-----From: Vern Saboe DC [mailto:vas@...]Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:08 AMOregondcs Subject: "Medical Costs in the Oregon Worker's Comp System"

So dear colleagues how about a discussion on cost shifting since 1990 and SB 1197...here are some salient statistics from the July 2001 Dept. of Consumer & Business Services "Research & Analysis Section." I'm in contact with the head fellow and will be getting 2002 and the 2004 (in about two months) stats as well.

Total compensation, medical payments by provider type...total payments $58, 305,000 of that ...if my math is correct 93.6% or $54.6 million were for direct medical services! Here is the breakdown:

Medical doctor $17.4 million or 29.8%

Hospital outpatient and inpatient $22 million or 37.7%

"Other medical" whatever the heck that is? $6.3 million or 10.8% (BTW we don't have hospital privileges)

Physical therapists $3.7 million or 6.4% (we perform are own physiotheraputics and therapeutic exercises etc.)

Pharmacy $3.2 million or 5.5% (we of course pride ourselves on not giving out drugs and use more natural less toxic approaches)

Radiologists $1.9 million or 3.4% (we take and read our own x-rays....the medics almost always have a medical radiologist read there films)

The above totals $54.6 million or 93.6% of the total costs. Now guess what the entire chiropractic profession was paid in this same period...what %....

Drumroll please..... $1.5 million or 2.6% So the carriers paid...if you add "other medical" nearly 35 times more for medical doctors.....those folks who are poorly trained to handle common musculoskeletal injuries namely lower back and neck.

PTs were paid more than 3X's what chiropractors were paid and we perform our own PT...

Drugs...those lovely drugs of which don't prescribe...the system paid nearly three times as much for them then our entire profession.

Radiologists paying radiologist to read films got more than our entire profession and we read our own films!

Here is one for you the system actually paid more for IMEs then it paid DCs yep IMEs took in $1.8 million!

One of the interesting down sides of MDs being poorly trained in back and necks is that they will order MRIs at a drop of a hat in hopes of "finding something" or because the patient simply wants one! The W/C system spent $907,000 on them alone...Vs., only $511,000 for chiropractic spinal manipulative therapy!!!!

Oh...and when they find that incidental bulge on the MRI...the system paid $2.2 million for spinal surgeries of which on a conservative scale 50% were probably not needed!

Now how's about that new four year prospective Sarnat HMO study just published in JMPT were chiropractic physicians in the driver seat as the PCP facilitated the following savings:

43% reduction in hospital admissions

58.4% reduction in hospital days

43.2 reduction in outpatient surgeries and procedures (eg., MRIs)

.....and my personal favorite 51.8% reduction in drug costs!

....do ya think this could make a case for our proposed Worker's Compensation Cost Comparison Study????

.....do ya think the Majority Leader (a chiropractic patient) and the other key folks are going to get an ear full this Thursday during our meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vern SaboeOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

I agree Vern that a good percentage of work related injuries are NMS but we would look so much more refined if we could give precise numbers and not lump everything together. sharron fuchs dc

Re: "Medical Costs in the Oregon Worker's Comp System"

True enough but in reality a very good % of Work related injuries are indeed NMS conditions. I'll check to see as per condition.

Vern

RE: "Medical Costs in the Oregon Worker's Comp System"

Vern, Is there any way to get a break down of the 'conditions' diagnosed that are used in this study ? If we could sort out the NMS conditions then we could do a better comparison of our cost saving ability. sharron fuchs dc

-----Original Message-----From: Vern Saboe DC [mailto:vas@...]Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:08 AMOregondcs Subject: "Medical Costs in the Oregon Worker's Comp System"

So dear colleagues how about a discussion on cost shifting since 1990 and SB 1197...here are some salient statistics from the July 2001 Dept. of Consumer & Business Services "Research & Analysis Section." I'm in contact with the head fellow and will be getting 2002 and the 2004 (in about two months) stats as well.

Total compensation, medical payments by provider type...total payments $58, 305,000 of that ...if my math is correct 93.6% or $54.6 million were for direct medical services! Here is the breakdown:

Medical doctor $17.4 million or 29.8%

Hospital outpatient and inpatient $22 million or 37.7%

"Other medical" whatever the heck that is? $6.3 million or 10.8% (BTW we don't have hospital privileges)

Physical therapists $3.7 million or 6.4% (we perform are own physiotheraputics and therapeutic exercises etc.)

Pharmacy $3.2 million or 5.5% (we of course pride ourselves on not giving out drugs and use more natural less toxic approaches)

Radiologists $1.9 million or 3.4% (we take and read our own x-rays....the medics almost always have a medical radiologist read there films)

The above totals $54.6 million or 93.6% of the total costs. Now guess what the entire chiropractic profession was paid in this same period...what %....

Drumroll please..... $1.5 million or 2.6% So the carriers paid...if you add "other medical" nearly 35 times more for medical doctors.....those folks who are poorly trained to handle common musculoskeletal injuries namely lower back and neck.

PTs were paid more than 3X's what chiropractors were paid and we perform our own PT...

Drugs...those lovely drugs of which don't prescribe...the system paid nearly three times as much for them then our entire profession.

Radiologists paying radiologist to read films got more than our entire profession and we read our own films!

Here is one for you the system actually paid more for IMEs then it paid DCs yep IMEs took in $1.8 million!

One of the interesting down sides of MDs being poorly trained in back and necks is that they will order MRIs at a drop of a hat in hopes of "finding something" or because the patient simply wants one! The W/C system spent $907,000 on them alone...Vs., only $511,000 for chiropractic spinal manipulative therapy!!!!

Oh...and when they find that incidental bulge on the MRI...the system paid $2.2 million for spinal surgeries of which on a conservative scale 50% were probably not needed!

Now how's about that new four year prospective Sarnat HMO study just published in JMPT were chiropractic physicians in the driver seat as the PCP facilitated the following savings:

43% reduction in hospital admissions

58.4% reduction in hospital days

43.2 reduction in outpatient surgeries and procedures (eg., MRIs)

.....and my personal favorite 51.8% reduction in drug costs!

....do ya think this could make a case for our proposed Worker's Compensation Cost Comparison Study????

.....do ya think the Majority Leader (a chiropractic patient) and the other key folks are going to get an ear full this Thursday during our meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vern SaboeOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.