Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 > The article is interesting in that it suggests a link between > environmental > toxins and ALS. I presume you are referring here to the article in the CRS archives, not the article I linked to. > In our file ( called " Dr. Walford's Posts " ), Dr W suggests > that during his work in the biosphere, he was exposed to toxic gases as > one > reason for his illness (he started having symptoms upon the end of the > biosphere experiment). Yes, a viable hypothesis. > Another possible reason was that he was the oldest > member in the biosphere (in his 60's) had to work just as physically hard > as > the much younger participants, which was taxing for a man his age, and > lost > weight much too rapidly during the experiment. We now know that if you > are > older, rapid weight loss leads to shorter not longer life. Yup, another, perhaps related, hypothesis. From the linked article: " The odds of having motor neuron disease was 2.21 times higher in subjects who reported they had always been slim than in those who did not, ... " I suggest this rules out presently being able to categorically eliminate the possibility that CR could be a risk factor for ALS - we haven't the luxury of asserting such flat denials yet, we simply don't know enough. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I am not referring to any " archives " . The article you posted talks about environmental toxins. I would have copied the text but it wouldn't copy. About halfway through it refers to that. Funny how we " see " what we want to see. I take issue with you that " perhaps " CR is a cause of ALS. There are many reasons why people are slim. Underlying illness could be one of them. And perhaps not getting optimal nutrition (by not eating enough) could be another cause of illness in slim people. To say that CRON might " cause " ALS is not scientific, especially when Dr W's cropped up after the aforementioned special circumstances; he just happened to also be doing CRON. It's almost like saying: " Well he was breathing at the time, so perhaps breathing caused his ALS " . The other, much younger, biospherans took the hard work and sudden weight loss in stride. Dr W was the only one to develop the illness. on 5/13/2006 12:55 PM, Al Young at acyoung@... wrote: > The article is interesting in that it suggests a link between > environmental > toxins and ALS. I presume you are referring here to the article in the CRS archives, not the article I linked to. > In our file ( called " Dr. Walford's Posts " ), Dr W suggests > that during his work in the biosphere, he was exposed to toxic gases as > one > reason for his illness (he started having symptoms upon the end of the > biosphere experiment). Yes, a viable hypothesis. > Another possible reason was that he was the oldest > member in the biosphere (in his 60's) had to work just as physically hard > as > the much younger participants, which was taxing for a man his age, and > lost > weight much too rapidly during the experiment. We now know that if you > are > older, rapid weight loss leads to shorter not longer life. Yup, another, perhaps related, hypothesis. From the linked article: " The odds of having motor neuron disease was 2.21 times higher in subjects who reported they had always been slim than in those who did not, ... " I suggest this rules out presently being able to categorically eliminate the possibility that CR could be a risk factor for ALS - we haven't the luxury of asserting such flat denials yet, we simply don't know enough. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 >I am not referring to any " archives " . The article you posted talks about > environmental toxins. I would have copied the text but it wouldn't copy. > About halfway through it refers to that. Funny how we " see " what we want > to > see. You've got that right, especially inasmuch as the ALS-related purview of the article is weight, body mass and athleticism. Abstract-Several famous athletes have been affected by ALS, and some epidemiologic studies have indicated that vigorous physical activity (heavy labor or athletics) is a risk factor for the disease. In a case-control study of 279 patients with motor neuron diseases and 152 with other neurologic diseases, the authors found that subjects with motor neuron diseases were more likely than controls to report they had always been slim or they had been varsity athletes. For slimness, the odds ratio (OR) was 2.21; 95% CI, 1.40 to 3.47. For varsity athletics, the OR was 1.70; CI, 1.04 to 2.76. NEUROLOGY 2002;59:773-775 Regarding a reference to environmental toxins in the article, I couldn't find it, but I may have just missed it. If you get Adobe Reader 7.0 or higher, highlighting of text is doable. > I take issue with you that " perhaps " CR is a cause of ALS. This is a far cry from what I said. Here's what I said following a quote from the article: The Article == " The odds of having motor neuron disease was 2.21 times higher in subjects who reported they had always been slim than in those who did not, ... " Me == " I suggest this rules out presently being able to categorically eliminate the possibility that CR could be a risk factor for ALS - we haven't the luxury of asserting such flat denials yet, we simply don't know enough. " My statement here is pretty modest - I'm only saying CR mediated slimness can't be absolutely ruled out as a *possible* risk factor at our present state of knowledge. To be clear, I seriously doubt that CR mediated slimness will ever emerge as anything approaching a sufficient " cause " of ALS, but I do, otoh, think it's careless and rash to, as I've said, absolutely rule out the possibility, at our present state of knowledge, that CR mediated slimness could turn out to be a risk factor for ALS, especially in light of the article I cited. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 An ALS diet related article from ScienceDaily: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060417104324.htm http://tinyurl.com/objaq Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I don't know what you consider " CR mediated slimness " . In this group we advocate moderation which is a BMI somewhere between 18 and 22 - hardly ultra slim. We disagree on this point: I think it's careless and rash to suggest that moderate CR could turn out to be a risk factor, especially since being thin could be due to so many causes and the jury is way out on this. Your article cited many possible other causes such as: athleticsm, environmental toxins, genetics. None of which are conclusive btw. Yet you are singling out CR. In addition, ALS is very rare. Heart disease, cancer, and the other diseases held at bay by CR are the major killers in the developed world. So why put so much emphasis on such a rare disease, the causes of which are not known? Please answer me off list if you want to continue this discussion. We should spare the group any further discussion about our respective opinions. Comments from other people who want to weigh in on the subject are welcome. on 5/13/2006 2:36 PM, Al Young at acyoung@... wrote: To be clear, I seriously doubt that CR mediated slimness will ever emerge as anything approaching a sufficient " cause " of ALS, but I do, otoh, think it's careless and rash to, as I've said, absolutely rule out the possibility, at our present state of knowledge, that CR mediated slimness could turn out to be a risk factor for ALS, especially in light of the article I cited. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Here is the text that Francesca is referring to about environmental toxins and ALS. I copied it from the article " Premorbid weight, body mass, and varsity athletics in ALS " . - Diane Longstreth et al.8 summarized hypotheses that might explain the role of athletics. Vigorous physical activity might increase exposure to environmental toxins, facilitate the transport of toxins across the blood�brain barrier, increase the absorption of a toxin by the lower motor neurons, or increase susceptibility of motor neurons supplying fast-twitch fibers by stressing activity. For example, poliovirus seemed to affect limbs that had been exercised at the time of infection.9 Alternatively, being slim and athletic might be a phenotypic expression of genetic susceptibility to ALS, mediated by some environmental agent. ========================================================== > > I am not referring to any " archives " . The article you posted talks about > environmental toxins. I would have copied the text but it wouldn't copy. > About halfway through it refers to that. Funny how we " see " what we want to > see. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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