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Re: Intermittent feeding

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Hi :

The mice that, when fed 40% less lived 40% longer, were fed just

three times a week (M W F).

The monkeys, currently being fed 30% less and living 30% longer, are

fed three meals a day every day.

Rodney.

>

> I've been thinking about behavioral methods to attain CR.

>

> A while back I was trying to fast once a week. I'd usually

have a little

> bit of tomato juice or something like that on a fast day.

>

> I found that I had trouble sleeping if I fasted all day (even

taking an

> ambien didn't help me sleep), so I usually ended up skipping two

meals on

> fast days and eating a light dinner. So I ended up doing a fast

that

> involved skipping lunch and breakfast.

>

> Personally I don't notice any terrible consequences from

skipping

> breakfast and lunch. I find that my mental concentration flags a

bit

> around 4 pm, but I'm just about to wrap up at work and that's not

too

> horrible. Saving the time spent with buying or preparing and

eating lunch

> probably makes up for any productivity lost.

>

> It seems that the likes of Mercola and Sears, as well as

mainstream

> nutritionists, all seem to agree that skipping meals is a bad

idea. The

> fad today seems to be that people should eat many frequent small

meals. I

> used to believe that, and it worked for me for a while when I was

working

> out intensively and sticking strictly to the Zone. After a while I

gained

> 25 pounds on a " frequent feeding " schedule and started fasting

because I've

> found it's easier to fast certain days and not be so tough on other

days.

>

> For the last week I've been trying a protocol of skipping

lunch on work

> days. " Skipping lunch " means I don't eat anything at work. If it

turns

> out that I'm going to have to eat for social reasons at work, I'll

skip

> breakfast. One of my immediate goals is to lose the 25 pounds I've

> gained, and try to do that at a rate of around 1 lb a week, maybe

a

> little less.

>

> I've hit a plateau with my weekly fast -- I also ran into the

problems

> that I had to eat last Friday for social reasons, so I got the

idea of

> having many short fasts. (No food 12am-12pm, or no food 9am-5pm)

One

> advantage is that this is really flexible -- I can decide to skip 3

meals a

> week or 4 meals a week or 5 meals a week, whatever.

>

> The " mainstream consensus " seems to be that:

>

> (i) if you skip a meal you'll just eat more later

> (ii) skipping meals will slow down your metabolism and cause you to

burn

> fewer calories

> (iii) blood sugar regulation works better if you eat small frequent

meals

>

> I don't believe (i). I certainly was in a hurry to start

eating dinner

> last night, but I don't double my consumption at night. In fact,

I find

> that a short fast seems to cause me to feel full quickly the next

time I eat.

>

> I don't think (ii) is a problem for CR. CR people aren't

(mainly) trying

> to lose weight, generally they want metabolism to go down, at

least in

> the long term. I don't think, for weight loss, that this is a

big

> problem for people that are currently overweight, although

> bodybuilders, anorexics and other people who are aiming for body

fat < 12%

> do need to worry about this.

>

> So far as (iii), I've had the simple and cheap tests of

blood sugar

> regulation, and my blood sugar regulation is excellent. Some

people claim

> that eating frequent smaller meals means you have less insulin

secretion

> and smaller blood sugar swings. I haven't seen hard evidence of

that. An

> alternate viewpoint is that it's insulin sensitivity that matters --

and I

> think that's more complicated. My guess is that metabolism is like

a

> muscle in that you develop the ability to use pathways by using

them. If

> you don't eat any carbs for a year, your body isn't going to

express the

> enzymes needed to metabolize carbs... Why should it? If you eat

> intermittently, your body will activate both the pathways needed

to absorb

> pulses of food AND that pathways required to run off reserves...

So you

> get metabolic flexibility that lets you deal with whatever life

throws at you.

>

> Another trouble I have with " frequent small meals " is that

it's linked up

> with an ideology that you should " never be hungry " . Let's face it -

- if

> you're going to reduce your energy intake, you're going to be

hungry

> sometimes. If you're eating in a way where you know you're going

to be

> hungry certain times, your brain gets used to the idea that it's

going to

> feel hunger, and it finds ways to deal with it. If you get the

idea that

> it's your birthright to never be hungry, then you might as well

grab a

> snickers.

>

> The " mainstream " seems to think that

>

> (i) it's impossible to lose weight, and

> (ii) CR is impossible in humans, so we need to develop a CR-

mimetic pill,

>

> so maybe we ought to question the conventional wisdom here...

>

> Any thoughts?

>

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Guest guest

At 09:27 AM 5/17/2006, you wrote:

>Hi :

>

>The mice that, when fed 40% less lived 40% longer, were fed just

>three times a week (M W F).

>

>The monkeys, currently being fed 30% less and living 30% longer, are

>fed three meals a day every day.

I think the scientific evidence shows that intermittent feeding of

various sorts is an effective form of CR in animals.

What I'm really interested in is a different question: how do you

actually do CR? From a behavioral standpoint, we know it's hard for most

people to do.

Walford doesn't have a lot to say on the subject: he does present

a system -- cook meals ahead of time and freeze them, only eat these

precalculated meals... How many people on this list are really doing that?

In real life we've got to face all sorts of issues -- such as

situations where we end up eating away from the house (fortunately we've

got a food co-op where you can get pretty good food in portions you

choose). Sometimes we go for a long drive -- in those situations you have

to eat something: is the best you're going to do a balance bar in a

situation like that? There's the whole thing of social eating: there are

times you have to eat some junk when the people around you are eating some

too -- my stepfamily is italian... when they offer you food it's an offer

you can't refuse.

I've got a sister-in-law () who is morbidly obese and we had

a really ugly scene last weekend. She got us all tickets to the shriner

circus, which was a really great idea. At the circus she passed the

cotton candy to me and my kid and I said something about how I never liked

cotton candy as a kid, how it was one of those things that grossed me

out, like " peeps " . We end up stopping outside the supermarket to get

supplies for the lunch we were making (an amazingly nutritious lunch for

them) and she was wheedling for us to get a pizza, since we weren't going

to have enough food.

At some point offers our kid (3.8 yrs old) candy and he

refuses it and gives her a lecture about how candy is bad for you and says

some pretty mean things. gets mad and runs upstairs and hides in her

room.

Around the time that spring kicked in around here, we wound up

going to parties with our hippie friends, our pagan friends and our

extended family in the same weekend -- so there's a real challenge in

eating enough food to be social, not eating too much, and also having a

system that lets us balance our overall consumption... If I really get

stuffed one weekend, maybe I can skip another meal.

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Guest guest

Hi :

IMO, best is to experiment and settle for whatever works for you.

There is no set way I am aware of.

Often on weekends there is a social feeding episode. I don't worry

about it. I don't pig out. I select the healthiest option

available. I eat a lot more than usual, but recognize that even

eating 3500 calories more than I normally would only adds one pound

of weight. Then during the week I compensate. One good way to do

this, for me, is to eat miso soup. A high salt content, but very low

in calories, and you can put pretty much whatever vegetables you want

in it, and it is fairly filling. I sometimes wonder whether miso

soup is the explanation for the comparative slimness of the japanese,

and their record-setting lifespan. (And possibly also their high

stroke and stomach cancer rates?)

About once a quarter I intentionally do an 'anorexia check'. Go to

the local, quite healthy, all-you-can-eat chinese restaurant. Then,

again selecting only the healthiest items available, I intentionally

eat until I am thoroughly full (but not to the point where it will

cause discomfort, obviously). If I ever find myself reluctant to do

this, I will sit up abruptly and take notice. sfsg.

Rodney.

> >Hi :

> >

> >The mice that, when fed 40% less lived 40% longer, were fed just

> >three times a week (M W F).

> >

> >The monkeys, currently being fed 30% less and living 30% longer,

are

> >fed three meals a day every day.

>

> I think the scientific evidence shows that intermittent

feeding of

> various sorts is an effective form of CR in animals.

>

> What I'm really interested in is a different question:

how do you

> actually do CR? From a behavioral standpoint, we know it's hard

for most

> people to do.

>

> Walford doesn't have a lot to say on the subject: he does

present

> a system -- cook meals ahead of time and freeze them, only eat

these

> precalculated meals... How many people on this list are really

doing that?

>

> In real life we've got to face all sorts of issues -- such

as

> situations where we end up eating away from the house (fortunately

we've

> got a food co-op where you can get pretty good food in portions you

> choose). Sometimes we go for a long drive -- in those situations

you have

> to eat something: is the best you're going to do a balance bar in

a

> situation like that? There's the whole thing of social eating:

there are

> times you have to eat some junk when the people around you are

eating some

> too -- my stepfamily is italian... when they offer you food it's

an offer

> you can't refuse.

>

> I've got a sister-in-law () who is morbidly obese and

we had

> a really ugly scene last weekend. She got us all tickets to the

shriner

> circus, which was a really great idea. At the circus she passed

the

> cotton candy to me and my kid and I said something about how I

never liked

> cotton candy as a kid, how it was one of those things that grossed

me

> out, like " peeps " . We end up stopping outside the supermarket to

get

> supplies for the lunch we were making (an amazingly nutritious

lunch for

> them) and she was wheedling for us to get a pizza, since we

weren't going

> to have enough food.

>

> At some point offers our kid (3.8 yrs old) candy and

he

> refuses it and gives her a lecture about how candy is bad for you

and says

> some pretty mean things. gets mad and runs upstairs and

hides in her

> room.

>

> Around the time that spring kicked in around here, we

wound up

> going to parties with our hippie friends, our pagan friends and

our

> extended family in the same weekend -- so there's a real challenge

in

> eating enough food to be social, not eating too much, and also

having a

> system that lets us balance our overall consumption... If I really

get

> stuffed one weekend, maybe I can skip another meal.

>

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