Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Hi : The mice that, when fed 40% less lived 40% longer, were fed just three times a week (M W F). The monkeys, currently being fed 30% less and living 30% longer, are fed three meals a day every day. Rodney. > > I've been thinking about behavioral methods to attain CR. > > A while back I was trying to fast once a week. I'd usually have a little > bit of tomato juice or something like that on a fast day. > > I found that I had trouble sleeping if I fasted all day (even taking an > ambien didn't help me sleep), so I usually ended up skipping two meals on > fast days and eating a light dinner. So I ended up doing a fast that > involved skipping lunch and breakfast. > > Personally I don't notice any terrible consequences from skipping > breakfast and lunch. I find that my mental concentration flags a bit > around 4 pm, but I'm just about to wrap up at work and that's not too > horrible. Saving the time spent with buying or preparing and eating lunch > probably makes up for any productivity lost. > > It seems that the likes of Mercola and Sears, as well as mainstream > nutritionists, all seem to agree that skipping meals is a bad idea. The > fad today seems to be that people should eat many frequent small meals. I > used to believe that, and it worked for me for a while when I was working > out intensively and sticking strictly to the Zone. After a while I gained > 25 pounds on a " frequent feeding " schedule and started fasting because I've > found it's easier to fast certain days and not be so tough on other days. > > For the last week I've been trying a protocol of skipping lunch on work > days. " Skipping lunch " means I don't eat anything at work. If it turns > out that I'm going to have to eat for social reasons at work, I'll skip > breakfast. One of my immediate goals is to lose the 25 pounds I've > gained, and try to do that at a rate of around 1 lb a week, maybe a > little less. > > I've hit a plateau with my weekly fast -- I also ran into the problems > that I had to eat last Friday for social reasons, so I got the idea of > having many short fasts. (No food 12am-12pm, or no food 9am-5pm) One > advantage is that this is really flexible -- I can decide to skip 3 meals a > week or 4 meals a week or 5 meals a week, whatever. > > The " mainstream consensus " seems to be that: > > (i) if you skip a meal you'll just eat more later > (ii) skipping meals will slow down your metabolism and cause you to burn > fewer calories > (iii) blood sugar regulation works better if you eat small frequent meals > > I don't believe (i). I certainly was in a hurry to start eating dinner > last night, but I don't double my consumption at night. In fact, I find > that a short fast seems to cause me to feel full quickly the next time I eat. > > I don't think (ii) is a problem for CR. CR people aren't (mainly) trying > to lose weight, generally they want metabolism to go down, at least in > the long term. I don't think, for weight loss, that this is a big > problem for people that are currently overweight, although > bodybuilders, anorexics and other people who are aiming for body fat < 12% > do need to worry about this. > > So far as (iii), I've had the simple and cheap tests of blood sugar > regulation, and my blood sugar regulation is excellent. Some people claim > that eating frequent smaller meals means you have less insulin secretion > and smaller blood sugar swings. I haven't seen hard evidence of that. An > alternate viewpoint is that it's insulin sensitivity that matters -- and I > think that's more complicated. My guess is that metabolism is like a > muscle in that you develop the ability to use pathways by using them. If > you don't eat any carbs for a year, your body isn't going to express the > enzymes needed to metabolize carbs... Why should it? If you eat > intermittently, your body will activate both the pathways needed to absorb > pulses of food AND that pathways required to run off reserves... So you > get metabolic flexibility that lets you deal with whatever life throws at you. > > Another trouble I have with " frequent small meals " is that it's linked up > with an ideology that you should " never be hungry " . Let's face it - - if > you're going to reduce your energy intake, you're going to be hungry > sometimes. If you're eating in a way where you know you're going to be > hungry certain times, your brain gets used to the idea that it's going to > feel hunger, and it finds ways to deal with it. If you get the idea that > it's your birthright to never be hungry, then you might as well grab a > snickers. > > The " mainstream " seems to think that > > (i) it's impossible to lose weight, and > (ii) CR is impossible in humans, so we need to develop a CR- mimetic pill, > > so maybe we ought to question the conventional wisdom here... > > Any thoughts? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 At 09:27 AM 5/17/2006, you wrote: >Hi : > >The mice that, when fed 40% less lived 40% longer, were fed just >three times a week (M W F). > >The monkeys, currently being fed 30% less and living 30% longer, are >fed three meals a day every day. I think the scientific evidence shows that intermittent feeding of various sorts is an effective form of CR in animals. What I'm really interested in is a different question: how do you actually do CR? From a behavioral standpoint, we know it's hard for most people to do. Walford doesn't have a lot to say on the subject: he does present a system -- cook meals ahead of time and freeze them, only eat these precalculated meals... How many people on this list are really doing that? In real life we've got to face all sorts of issues -- such as situations where we end up eating away from the house (fortunately we've got a food co-op where you can get pretty good food in portions you choose). Sometimes we go for a long drive -- in those situations you have to eat something: is the best you're going to do a balance bar in a situation like that? There's the whole thing of social eating: there are times you have to eat some junk when the people around you are eating some too -- my stepfamily is italian... when they offer you food it's an offer you can't refuse. I've got a sister-in-law () who is morbidly obese and we had a really ugly scene last weekend. She got us all tickets to the shriner circus, which was a really great idea. At the circus she passed the cotton candy to me and my kid and I said something about how I never liked cotton candy as a kid, how it was one of those things that grossed me out, like " peeps " . We end up stopping outside the supermarket to get supplies for the lunch we were making (an amazingly nutritious lunch for them) and she was wheedling for us to get a pizza, since we weren't going to have enough food. At some point offers our kid (3.8 yrs old) candy and he refuses it and gives her a lecture about how candy is bad for you and says some pretty mean things. gets mad and runs upstairs and hides in her room. Around the time that spring kicked in around here, we wound up going to parties with our hippie friends, our pagan friends and our extended family in the same weekend -- so there's a real challenge in eating enough food to be social, not eating too much, and also having a system that lets us balance our overall consumption... If I really get stuffed one weekend, maybe I can skip another meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Hi : IMO, best is to experiment and settle for whatever works for you. There is no set way I am aware of. Often on weekends there is a social feeding episode. I don't worry about it. I don't pig out. I select the healthiest option available. I eat a lot more than usual, but recognize that even eating 3500 calories more than I normally would only adds one pound of weight. Then during the week I compensate. One good way to do this, for me, is to eat miso soup. A high salt content, but very low in calories, and you can put pretty much whatever vegetables you want in it, and it is fairly filling. I sometimes wonder whether miso soup is the explanation for the comparative slimness of the japanese, and their record-setting lifespan. (And possibly also their high stroke and stomach cancer rates?) About once a quarter I intentionally do an 'anorexia check'. Go to the local, quite healthy, all-you-can-eat chinese restaurant. Then, again selecting only the healthiest items available, I intentionally eat until I am thoroughly full (but not to the point where it will cause discomfort, obviously). If I ever find myself reluctant to do this, I will sit up abruptly and take notice. sfsg. Rodney. > >Hi : > > > >The mice that, when fed 40% less lived 40% longer, were fed just > >three times a week (M W F). > > > >The monkeys, currently being fed 30% less and living 30% longer, are > >fed three meals a day every day. > > I think the scientific evidence shows that intermittent feeding of > various sorts is an effective form of CR in animals. > > What I'm really interested in is a different question: how do you > actually do CR? From a behavioral standpoint, we know it's hard for most > people to do. > > Walford doesn't have a lot to say on the subject: he does present > a system -- cook meals ahead of time and freeze them, only eat these > precalculated meals... How many people on this list are really doing that? > > In real life we've got to face all sorts of issues -- such as > situations where we end up eating away from the house (fortunately we've > got a food co-op where you can get pretty good food in portions you > choose). Sometimes we go for a long drive -- in those situations you have > to eat something: is the best you're going to do a balance bar in a > situation like that? There's the whole thing of social eating: there are > times you have to eat some junk when the people around you are eating some > too -- my stepfamily is italian... when they offer you food it's an offer > you can't refuse. > > I've got a sister-in-law () who is morbidly obese and we had > a really ugly scene last weekend. She got us all tickets to the shriner > circus, which was a really great idea. At the circus she passed the > cotton candy to me and my kid and I said something about how I never liked > cotton candy as a kid, how it was one of those things that grossed me > out, like " peeps " . We end up stopping outside the supermarket to get > supplies for the lunch we were making (an amazingly nutritious lunch for > them) and she was wheedling for us to get a pizza, since we weren't going > to have enough food. > > At some point offers our kid (3.8 yrs old) candy and he > refuses it and gives her a lecture about how candy is bad for you and says > some pretty mean things. gets mad and runs upstairs and hides in her > room. > > Around the time that spring kicked in around here, we wound up > going to parties with our hippie friends, our pagan friends and our > extended family in the same weekend -- so there's a real challenge in > eating enough food to be social, not eating too much, and also having a > system that lets us balance our overall consumption... If I really get > stuffed one weekend, maybe I can skip another meal. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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