Fw: [aca-members] The smallest PVA wins - still another view

[Guest guest]

F.Y.I., more on Outcomes Management

Vern Saboe, DC

Re: [aca-members] The smallest PVA wins - still another view

> > > >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:53:48 EDT

> > > >

> > > >Again, I must partly disagree. For practical purposes, let's

> >arbitrarily

> > > >say

> > > >that outcome studies show that cox is best/fastest (B/F) for

Sciatica;

> > > >Grostic is B/F for Migraines; McKenzie is B/F for cervical radicular

> >pain;

> > > >bimanual

> > > >Diversified for Thoracic pain; and Activator for SI joint pain. We

now

> > > >teach

> > > >our students this and they are more proficient upon graduation for

the

> >B/F

> > > >for

> > > >each region or complaint. They also KNOW what technique to choose

for

> >each

> > > >--

> > > >not keep Activating away for Migraines for example. That will lower

> >PVA

> > > >and

> > > >improve outcome and give us a solidarity in our profession.

> > > >

> > > > Hilyer

> > > >fort, KY

> > > >

> > > >Diligence, many tools (techniques), skilled diagnosis and experience

in

> > > >application with the various techniques directed at EACH patient's

> >problems

> > > >dictates outcome (PVA). Like it or not some DR's Grostic is better

> >than

> > > >another DR's

> > > >Grostic or activator or diversified or what ever. Perhaps in a

> >teaching

> >or

> > > >new doctor environment that kind of cookie cutter approach may be

best

> > > >until

> > > >experience and newly gained knowledge begins to guide the DR toward a

> > > >Better/Faster/Safer (B/F/S) approach that fits both the DR and

patient.

> > > >However, I do

> > > >not believe that we will ever be so united as to KNOW collectively

> >which

> > > >technique works B/F/S due to differences in abilities in application

of

> >the

> > > >various

> > > >techniques by different providers.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Bill Barringer, DC

> > > >

> > > >Barringer Chiropractic Healthcare Center

> > > > " Changing People's Lives With Great Care... Naturally "

> > > >412 Mercedes Street, Suite D

> > > >Benbrook, TX 76126

> > > >

> > > >Ph# (817) 249-2717

> > > >Fax# (817) 249-2882

> > > >______________________________________________________

> > > >

> > > >NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion

> >sites

> > > >that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

> > > >information including statements that may be construed to be

> >defamatory,

> > > >abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the

discussion

> >of

> > > >fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set

of

> > > >E-Mail discussion policies at

> > > >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your

> >cooperation

> > > >in complying with these policies is appreciated.

> > > >---------------------------------------------------------

> > > >ACA-members mailing list

> > > >To post to the list:

> > > >ACA-members@...

> > > >To unsubscribe or change membership options:

> > > >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

> > > >List options tutorial:

> > > >http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6

> > > >Email filters tutorial:

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> > >

> > > _________________________________________________________________

> > > MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 months

> >FREE!

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> > >

> > > ______________________________________________________

> > >

> > > NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion

> >sites

> >that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

> >information including statements that may be construed to be defamatory,

> >abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the discussion

of

> >fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of

> >E-Mail discussion policies at

> >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your cooperation

> >in

> >complying with these policies is appreciated.

> > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > ACA-members mailing list

> > > To post to the list:

> > > ACA-members@...

> > > To unsubscribe or change membership options:

> > > http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

> > > List options tutorial:

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> > > Email filters tutorial:

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> >

> >

>

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>

[Guest guest]

Doctors:

Please quit playing the insurance game........ you will lose. Chiropractic

was NEVER meant to treat acute injuries. It IS meant to be a lifestyle and a

commitment to optimizing you nervous system and thereby your health, ie a

HEALTH CARE delivery system.. You will NOT achieve the miracles that

Chiropractic has to offer by attempting to have a LOW PVA( patient visit

average) doesn't work that way.

In my opinion this is craziness and more about $ for the Insurance company

than what is right for the patient. Get away from pain based care you will

be much happier.

DC's across the nation are being abused on a regular basis. Review the last

few days considering an opinion about UHC and the classification of DC's

Take Care

Dr Beebe

Re: [aca-members] The smallest PVA wins - still another

view

> > > > >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:53:48 EDT

> > > > >

> > > > >Again, I must partly disagree. For practical purposes, let's

> > >arbitrarily

> > > > >say

> > > > >that outcome studies show that cox is best/fastest (B/F) for

> Sciatica;

> > > > >Grostic is B/F for Migraines; McKenzie is B/F for cervical

radicular

> > >pain;

> > > > >bimanual

> > > > >Diversified for Thoracic pain; and Activator for SI joint pain. We

> now

> > > > >teach

> > > > >our students this and they are more proficient upon graduation for

> the

> > >B/F

> > > > >for

> > > > >each region or complaint. They also KNOW what technique to choose

> for

> > >each

> > > > >--

> > > > >not keep Activating away for Migraines for example. That will

lower

> > >PVA

> > > > >and

> > > > >improve outcome and give us a solidarity in our profession.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hilyer

> > > > >fort, KY

> > > > >

> > > > >Diligence, many tools (techniques), skilled diagnosis and

experience

> in

> > > > >application with the various techniques directed at EACH patient's

> > >problems

> > > > >dictates outcome (PVA). Like it or not some DR's Grostic is better

> > >than

> > > > >another DR's

> > > > >Grostic or activator or diversified or what ever. Perhaps in a

> > >teaching

> > >or

> > > > >new doctor environment that kind of cookie cutter approach may be

> best

> > > > >until

> > > > >experience and newly gained knowledge begins to guide the DR toward

a

> > > > >Better/Faster/Safer (B/F/S) approach that fits both the DR and

> patient.

> > > > >However, I do

> > > > >not believe that we will ever be so united as to KNOW collectively

> > >which

> > > > >technique works B/F/S due to differences in abilities in

application

> of

> > >the

> > > > >various

> > > > >techniques by different providers.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >Bill Barringer, DC

> > > > >

> > > > >Barringer Chiropractic Healthcare Center

> > > > > " Changing People's Lives With Great Care... Naturally "

> > > > >412 Mercedes Street, Suite D

> > > > >Benbrook, TX 76126

> > > > >

> > > > >Ph# (817) 249-2717

> > > > >Fax# (817) 249-2882

> > > > >______________________________________________________

> > > > >

> > > > >NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email

discussion

> > >sites

> > > > >that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

> > > > >information including statements that may be construed to be

> > >defamatory,

> > > > >abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the

> discussion

> > >of

> > > > >fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set

> of

> > > > >E-Mail discussion policies at

> > > > >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your

> > >cooperation

> > > > >in complying with these policies is appreciated.

> > > > >---------------------------------------------------------

> > > > >ACA-members mailing list

> > > > >To post to the list:

> > > > >ACA-members@...

> > > > >To unsubscribe or change membership options:

> > > > >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

> > > > >List options tutorial:

> > > > >http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6

> > > > >Email filters tutorial:

> > > > >http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=7

> > > >

> > > > _________________________________________________________________

> > > > MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 months

> > >FREE!

> > > > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

> > > >

> > > > ______________________________________________________

> > > >

> > > > NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion

> > >sites

> > >that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

> > >information including statements that may be construed to be

defamatory,

> > >abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the discussion

> of

> > >fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of

> > >E-Mail discussion policies at

> > >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your

cooperation

> > >in

> > >complying with these policies is appreciated.

> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > > ACA-members mailing list

> > > > To post to the list:

> > > > ACA-members@...

> > > > To unsubscribe or change membership options:

> > > > http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

> > > > List options tutorial:

> > > > http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6

> > > > Email filters tutorial:

> > > > http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=7

> > >

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 months

FREE!

> > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

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>

>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

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However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

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>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dan

I don't know what Dr Donato's goals ( positive outcome) for his patients are, but sounds like he is more concern about looking good for the Insurance companies.

Carl Bonofiglio

-- Re: Fw: [aca-members] The smallest PVA wins - still another view

Doctors:

Please quit playing the insurance game........ you will lose. Chiropractic

was NEVER meant to treat acute injuries. It IS meant to be a lifestyle and a

commitment to optimizing you nervous system and thereby your health, ie a

HEALTH CARE delivery system.. You will NOT achieve the miracles that

Chiropractic has to offer by attempting to have a LOW PVA( patient visit

average) doesn't work that way.

In my opinion this is craziness and more about $ for the Insurance company

than what is right for the patient. Get away from pain based care you will

be much happier.

DC's across the nation are being abused on a regular basis. Review the last

few days considering an opinion about UHC and the classification of DC's

Take Care

Dr Beebe

Re: [aca-members] The smallest PVA wins - still another

view

> > > > >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:53:48 EDT

> > > > >

> > > > >Again, I must partly disagree. For practical purposes, let's

> > >arbitrarily

> > > > >say

> > > > >that outcome studies show that cox is best/fastest (B/F) for

> Sciatica;

> > > > >Grostic is B/F for Migraines; McKenzie is B/F for cervical

radicular

> > >pain;

> > > > >bimanual

> > > > >Diversified for Thoracic pain; and Activator for SI joint pain. We

> now

> > > > >teach

> > > > >our students this and they are more proficient upon graduation for

> the

> > >B/F

> > > > >for

> > > > >each region or complaint. They also KNOW what technique to choose

> for

> > >each

> > > > >--

> > > > >not keep Activating away for Migraines for example. That will

lower

> > >PVA

> > > > >and

> > > > >improve outcome and give us a solidarity in our profession.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hilyer

> > > > >fort, KY

> > > > >

> > > > >Diligence, many tools (techniques), skilled diagnosis and

experience

> in

> > > > >application with the various techniques directed at EACH patient's

> > >problems

> > > > >dictates outcome (PVA). Like it or not some DR's Grostic is better

> > >than

> > > > >another DR's

> > > > >Grostic or activator or diversified or what ever. Perhaps in a

> > >teaching

> > >or

> > > > >new doctor environment that kind of cookie cutter approach may be

> best

> > > > >until

> > > > >experience and newly gained knowledge begins to guide the DR toward

a

> > > > >Better/Faster/Safer (B/F/S) approach that fits both the DR and

> patient.

> > > > >However, I do

> > > > >not believe that we will ever be so united as to KNOW collectively

> > >which

> > > > >technique works B/F/S due to differences in abilities in

application

> of

> > >the

> > > > >various

> > > > >techniques by different providers.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >Bill Barringer, DC

> > > > >

> > > > >Barringer Chiropractic Healthcare Center

> > > > >"Changing People's Lives With Great Care... Naturally"

> > > > >412 Mercedes Street, Suite D

> > > > >Benbrook, TX 76126

> > > > >

> > > > >Ph# (817) 249-2717

> > > > >Fax# (817) 249-2882

> > > > >______________________________________________________

> > > > >

> > > > >NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email

discussion

> > >sites

> > > > >that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

> > > > >information including statements that may be construed to be

> > >defamatory,

> > > > >abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the

> discussion

> > >of

> > > > >fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set

> of

> > > > >E-Mail discussion policies at

> > > > >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your

> > >cooperation

> > > > >in complying with these policies is appreciated.

> > > > >---------------------------------------------------------

> > > > >ACA-members mailing list

> > > > >To post to the list:

> > > > & gt;ACA-members@...

> > > > >To unsubscribe or change membership options:

> > > > >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

> > > > >List options tutorial:

> > > > >http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6

> > > > >Email filters tutorial:

> > > > >http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=7

> > > >

> > > > _________________________________________________________________

> > > > MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 months

> > >FREE!

> > > > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

> > > >

> > > > ______________________________________________________

> > > >

> > > > NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion

> > >sites

> > >that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

> > >information including statements that may be construed to be

defamatory,

> > >abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the discussion

> of

> > >fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of

> > >E-Mail discussion policies at

> > >http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your

cooperation

> > >in

> > >complying with these policies is appreciated.

> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > > ACA-members mailing list

> > > > To post to the list:

> > > > ACA-members@...

> > > > To unsubscribe or change membership options:

> > > > http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

> > > > List options tutorial:

> > > > http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6

> > > > Email filters tutorial:

> > > > http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=7

> > >

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 months

FREE!

> > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Beebe,

For those doctors that wish to keep their practices clear of all insurance work, you need not worry about the new rule. It only includes insurance reimbursement as I read it. The last revised copy that Vern sent out to the listserv was very specific in that regard.

My personal opinion, not the positiion of the board, is that insurance is a useful tool for a large population of chiropractic patients. It does allow them to receive some amount of chiropractic care. I do agree with the concept that chiropractic is useful for much more than simply 'acute care'. I also think it's really effective for acute care.

If funds are limited in my budget, I purchase the best I can get for the money I have. It may not be everything I want, but I have expectations to get the best value for my dollars every time I spend them. I think it's fair for everyone to think that way. It's fair to want to get the best you can for the dollars you spend. I see no reason why this theory shouldn't include Insurance Companies.

In a perfect world, we would have health care in unlimited quantities for all. We would have the best that was technologically available. SInce the world is not perfect and we don't have unlimited funds to provide DC care for lifestyle-prevention type care, I think a second best alternative is to use what is available. It doesn't denegrate oneself to purchase a less expensive car, less expensive home, to save on less expensive clothing...I wish the world were structured so we as DCs could give care to everyone without worrying about the fees. It's not perfect. But losing insurance reimbursement would deny a large population access to us. That's the reason I continue to support Vern in all his efforts to help our profession by creating this rule. I would prefer to educate the legislature with showing fee schedules. that would take more time than I have. It would require more studies to demonstrate our cost-effectiveness. Vern has the energy, the connections and the will to help save PIP for our profession. I'm greatful for his enthusiasm and forsight.

The new rule affects only insurance reimbursement treatments. Each doctor is free to turn all insurance cases away if they want to "quit playing the insurance game."

MInga Guerrero DC

In a message dated 6/23/2004 8:53:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, res0btan@... writes:

Doctors:

Please quit playing the insurance game........ you will lose. Chiropractic

was NEVER meant to treat acute injuries. It IS meant to be a lifestyle and a

commitment to optimizing you nervous system and thereby your health, ie a

HEALTH CARE delivery system.. You will NOT achieve the miracles that

Chiropractic has to offer by attempting to have a LOW PVA( patient visit

average) doesn't work that way.

In my opinion this is craziness and more about $ for the Insurance company

than what is right for the patient. Get away from pain based care you will

be much happier.

DC's across the nation are being abused on a regular basis. Review the last

few days considering an opinion about UHC and the classification of DC's

Take Care

Dr Beebe

Re: [aca-members] The smallest PVA wins - still another

view

>>>>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:53:48 EDT

>>>>>

>>>>>Again, I must partly disagree. For practical purposes, let's

>>>arbitrarily

>>>>>say

>>>>>that outcome studies show that cox is best/fastest (B/F) for

>Sciatica;

>>>>>Grostic is B/F for Migraines; McKenzie is B/F for cervical

radicular

>>>pain;

>>>>>bimanual

>>>>>Diversified for Thoracic pain; and Activator for SI joint pain. We

>now

>>>>>teach

>>>>>our students this and they are more proficient upon graduation for

>the

>>>B/F

>>>>>for

>>>>>each region or complaint. They also KNOW what technique to choose

>for

>>>each

>>>>>--

>>>>>not keep Activating away for Migraines for example. That will

lower

>>>PVA

>>>>>and

>>>>>improve outcome and give us a solidarity in our profession.

>>>>>

>>>>> Hilyer

>>>>>fort, KY

>>>>>

>>>>>Diligence, many tools (techniques), skilled diagnosis and

experience

>in

>>>>>application with the various techniques directed at EACH patient's

>>>problems

>>>>>dictates outcome (PVA). Like it or not some DR's Grostic is better

>>>than

>>>>>another DR's

>>>>>Grostic or activator or diversified or what ever. Perhaps in a

>>>teaching

>>>or

>>>>>new doctor environment that kind of cookie cutter approach may be

>best

>>>>>until

>>>>>experience and newly gained knowledge begins to guide the DR toward

a

>>>>>Better/Faster/Safer (B/F/S) approach that fits both the DR and

>patient.

>>>>>However, I do

>>>>>not believe that we will ever be so united as to KNOW collectively

>>>which

>>>>>technique works B/F/S due to differences in abilities in

application

>of

>>>the

>>>>>various

>>>>>techniques by different providers.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>Bill Barringer, DC

>>>>>

>>>>>Barringer Chiropractic Healthcare Center

>>>>>"Changing People's Lives With Great Care... Naturally"

>>>>>412 Mercedes Street, Suite D

>>>>>Benbrook, TX 76126

>>>>>

>>>>>Ph# (817) 249-2717

>>>>>Fax# (817) 249-2882

>>>>>______________________________________________________

>>>>>

>>>>>NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email

discussion

>>>sites

>>>>>that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

>>>>>information including statements that may be construed to be

>>>defamatory,

>>>>>abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the

>discussion

>>>of

>>>>>fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set

>of

>>>>>E-Mail discussion policies at

>>>>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your

>>>cooperation

>>>>>in complying with these policies is appreciated.

>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>ACA-members mailing list

>>>>>To post to the list:

>>>>>ACA-members@...

>>>>>To unsubscribe or change membership options:

>>>>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

>>>>>List options tutorial:

>>>>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6

>>>>>Email filters tutorial:

>>>>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=7

>>>>

>>>>_________________________________________________________________

>>>>MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 months

>>>FREE!

>>>>http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

>>>>

>>>>______________________________________________________

>>>>

>>>>NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion

>>>sites

>>>that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain

>>>information including statements that may be construed to be

defamatory,

>>>abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the discussion

>of

>>>fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of

>>>E-Mail discussion policies at

>>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your

cooperation

>>>in

>>>complying with these policies is appreciated.

>>>>---------------------------------------------------------

>>>>ACA-members mailing list

>>>>To post to the list:

>>>>ACA-members@...

>>>>To unsubscribe or change membership options:

>>>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members

>>>>List options tutorial:

>>>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6

>>>>Email filters tutorial:

>>>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=7

>>>

>>>

>>

>>_________________________________________________________________

>>MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 months

FREE!

>>http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>OregonDCs rules:

>1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

>2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Minga

My point in all this discussion follows what the MD's and some DC's already have learned. That is regarding the fact of denying care to patient's that need care or the doctor who(m) subjugates to the attitude of 6-8 visits is better than nothing. The patient then has no responsibility for his/her health and the Doc gets frustrated as the re-imbursements become smaller as the paperwork becomes larger. The patient becomes pain centered.... and the Doc ends up chasing pain syndromes becoming even more frustrated. Doc ya didn't fix my back in 6 visits this choirpractery ain't no good......

I was not attacking Verne in the slightest nor am I suggesting that insurance is not useful. I do not believe that I said anything about the rule that Verne is pushing. I am stating that, as a doctor you should be making your decisions based on the patient's needs not the amount of insurance he/she does/does not have. That you hold them responsible for their health and that you educate them about Chiropractic and health. I believe...strongly... that if you start playing the game of " I can name that song in 6-8 notes", someone else will surely be able to name it in 5-6 or 3-4 and you will lose in this insurance game. You will lose control of patient health and you will lose control of the decision making in determinig what is in the best interest of the patient. Again my opinion.

Dr Beebe

Re: [aca-members] The smallest PVA wins - still anotherview>>>>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:53:48 EDT>>>>>>>>>>Again, I must partly disagree. For practical purposes, let's>>>arbitrarily>>>>>say>>>>>that outcome studies show that cox is best/fastest (B/F) for>Sciatica;>>>>>Grostic is B/F for Migraines; McKenzie is B/F for cervicalradicular>>>pain;>>>>>bimanual>>>>>Diversified for Thoracic pain; and Activator for SI joint pain. We>now>>>>>teach>>>>>our students this and they are more proficient upon graduation for>the>>>B/F>>>>>for>>>>>each region or complaint. They also KNOW what technique to choose>for>>>each>>>>>-->>>>>not keep Activating away for Migraines for example. That willlower>>>PVA>>>>>and>>>>>improve outcome and give us a solidarity in our profession.>>>>>>>>>> Hilyer>>>>>fort, KY>>>>>>>>>>Diligence, many tools (techniques), skilled diagnosis andexperience>in>>>>>application with the various techniques directed at EACH patient's>>>problems>>>>>dictates outcome (PVA). Like it or not some DR's Grostic is better>>>than>>>>>another DR's>>>>>Grostic or activator or diversified or what ever. Perhaps in a>>>teaching>>>or>>>>>new doctor environment that kind of cookie cutter approach may be>best>>>>>until>>>>>experience and newly gained knowledge begins to guide the DR towarda>>>>>Better/Faster/Safer (B/F/S) approach that fits both the DR and>patient.>>>>>However, I do>>>>>not believe that we will ever be so united as to KNOW collectively>>>which>>>>>technique works B/F/S due to differences in abilities inapplication>of>>>the>>>>>various>>>>>techniques by different providers.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bill Barringer, DC>>>>>>>>>>Barringer Chiropractic Healthcare Center>>>>>"Changing People's Lives With Great Care... Naturally">>>>>412 Mercedes Street, Suite D>>>>>Benbrook, TX 76126>>>>>>>>>>Ph# (817) 249-2717>>>>>Fax# (817) 249-2882>>>>>______________________________________________________>>>>>>>>>>NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA emaildiscussion>>>sites>>>>>that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain>>>>>information including statements that may be construed to be>>>defamatory,>>>>>abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the>discussion>>>of>>>>>fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set>of>>>>>E-Mail discussion policies at>>>>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Your>>>cooperation>>>>>in complying with these policies is appreciated.>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------->>>>>ACA-members mailing list>>>>>To post to the list:>>>>>ACA-members@...>>>>>To unsubscribe or change membership options:>>>>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members>>>>>List options tutorial:>>>>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6>>>>>Email filters tutorial:>>>>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=7>>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________>>>>MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 months>>>FREE!>>>>http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/>>>>>>>>______________________________________________________>>>>>>>>NOTICE: The ACA reminds all those utilizing the ACA email discussion>>>sites>>>that ACA email discussion policies prohibit the posting of certain>>>information including statements that may be construed to bedefamatory,>>>abusive or actionable under the antirust laws( including the discussion>of>>>fees or calls to boycott). Members are urged to review the full set of>>>E-Mail discussion policies at>>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members. Yourcooperation>>>in>>>complying with these policies is appreciated.>>>>--------------------------------------------------------->>>>ACA-members mailing list>>>>To post to the list:>>>>ACA-members@...>>>>To unsubscribe or change membership options:>>>>http://ww3.chirolists.com/mailman/listinfo/aca-members>>>>List options tutorial:>>>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=6>>>>Email filters tutorial:>>>>http://www.chirolists.com/index.cfm?nid=7>>>>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________>>MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups - now 3 monthsFREE!>>http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/>>>>>>>>>>OregonDCs rules:>1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is tofoster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listservemembers will be tolerated.>2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.>3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without hisor her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.>