Re: Interesting story about food availability and height

[Guest guest]

At 07:59 AM 9/16/2006, you wrote:

>http://news./s/ap/20060915/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_tallest_people

Which per the following raises some questions:

Is height related to longevity?

Samaras TT,

Elrick H,

Storms LH.

Reventropy Associates, 11487 Madera Way, San Diego, CA 92124-2877,

USA. SamarasTT@...

Over the last 100 years, studies have provided mixed results on the

mortality and health of tall and short people. However, during the last 30

years, several researchers have found a negative correlation between

greater height and longevity based on relatively homogeneous deceased

population samples. Findings based on millions of deaths suggest that

shorter, smaller bodies have lower death rates and fewer diet-related

chronic diseases, especially past middle age. Shorter people also appear to

have longer average lifespans. The authors suggest that the differences in

longevity between the sexes is due to their height differences because men

average about 8.0% taller than women and have a 7.9% lower life expectancy

at birth. Animal experiments also show that smaller animals within the same

species generally live longer. The relation between height and health has

become more important in recent years because rapid developments in genetic

engineering will offer parents the opportunity to increase the heights of

their children in the near future. The authors contend that we should not

be swept along into a new world of increasingly taller generations without

careful consideration of the impact of a worldwide population of taller and

heavier people.

PMID: 12586217

Maco

[Guest guest]

And yet, as our height as a species has increased, so has our overall life expectancy.This trend appears to contradict their thesis, no?On 9/16/06,

Maco <mstewart@...> wrote:

At 07:59 AM 9/16/2006, you wrote:

>http://news./s/ap/20060915/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_tallest_people

Which per the following raises some questions:

Is height related to longevity?

Samaras TT,

Elrick H,

Storms LH.

Reventropy Associates, 11487 Madera Way, San Diego, CA 92124-2877,

USA. SamarasTT@...

Over the last 100 years, studies have provided mixed results on the

mortality and health of tall and short people. However, during the last 30

years, several researchers have found a negative correlation between

greater height and longevity based on relatively homogeneous deceased

population samples. Findings based on millions of deaths suggest that

shorter, smaller bodies have lower death rates and fewer diet-related

chronic diseases, especially past middle age. Shorter people also appear to

have longer average lifespans. The authors suggest that the differences in

longevity between the sexes is due to their height differences because men

average about 8.0% taller than women and have a 7.9% lower life expectancy

at birth. Animal experiments also show that smaller animals within the same

species generally live longer. The relation between height and health has

become more important in recent years because rapid developments in genetic

engineering will offer parents the opportunity to increase the heights of

their children in the near future. The authors contend that we should not

be swept along into a new world of increasingly taller generations without

careful consideration of the impact of a worldwide population of taller and

heavier people.

PMID: 12586217

Maco

[Guest guest]

Taller-> greater longevity

On 9/16/06, Dowling <christopher.a.dowling@...> wrote:

And yet, as our height as a species has increased, so has our overall life expectancy.This trend appears to contradict their thesis, no?

On 9/16/06,

Maco <mstewart@...> wrote:

At 07:59 AM 9/16/2006, you wrote:

>http://news./s/ap/20060915/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_tallest_people

Which per the following raises some questions:

Is height related to longevity?

Samaras TT,

Elrick H,

Storms LH.

Reventropy Associates, 11487 Madera Way, San Diego, CA 92124-2877,

USA. SamarasTT@...

Over the last 100 years, studies have provided mixed results on the

mortality and health of tall and short people. However, during the last 30

years, several researchers have found a negative correlation between

greater height and longevity based on relatively homogeneous deceased

population samples. Findings based on millions of deaths suggest that

shorter, smaller bodies have lower death rates and fewer diet-related

chronic diseases, especially past middle age. Shorter people also appear to

have longer average lifespans. The authors suggest that the differences in

longevity between the sexes is due to their height differences because men

average about 8.0% taller than women and have a 7.9% lower life expectancy

at birth. Animal experiments also show that smaller animals within the same

species generally live longer. The relation between height and health has

become more important in recent years because rapid developments in genetic

engineering will offer parents the opportunity to increase the heights of

their children in the near future. The authors contend that we should not

be swept along into a new world of increasingly taller generations without

careful consideration of the impact of a worldwide population of taller and

heavier people.

PMID: 12586217

Maco

[Guest guest]

And while, after attaining full height, you're stuck, perhaps you might " stretch " yourodds by

wise coupling?On 9/16/06, Dowling <christopher.a.dowling@...> wrote:

Taller-> greater longevity

On 9/16/06, Dowling <christopher.a.dowling@...

> wrote:

And yet, as our height as a species has increased, so has our overall life expectancy.This trend appears to contradict their thesis, no?

On 9/16/06,

Maco <mstewart@...> wrote:

At 07:59 AM 9/16/2006, you wrote:

>http://news./s/ap/20060915/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_tallest_people

Which per the following raises some questions:

Is height related to longevity?

Samaras TT,

Elrick H,

Storms LH.

Reventropy Associates, 11487 Madera Way, San Diego, CA 92124-2877,

USA. SamarasTT@...

Over the last 100 years, studies have provided mixed results on the

mortality and health of tall and short people. However, during the last 30

years, several researchers have found a negative correlation between

greater height and longevity based on relatively homogeneous deceased

population samples. Findings based on millions of deaths suggest that

shorter, smaller bodies have lower death rates and fewer diet-related

chronic diseases, especially past middle age. Shorter people also appear to

have longer average lifespans. The authors suggest that the differences in

longevity between the sexes is due to their height differences because men

average about 8.0% taller than women and have a 7.9% lower life expectancy

at birth. Animal experiments also show that smaller animals within the same

species generally live longer. The relation between height and health has

become more important in recent years because rapid developments in genetic

engineering will offer parents the opportunity to increase the heights of

their children in the near future. The authors contend that we should not

be swept along into a new world of increasingly taller generations without

careful consideration of the impact of a worldwide population of taller and

heavier people.

PMID: 12586217

Maco

[Guest guest]

At 11:56 AM 9/16/2006, you wrote:

And yet, as our height as a

species has increased, so has our overall life expectancy.

This trend appears to contradict their thesis, no?

--I think a couple of different (and seemingly contratdictory) things are

going on. As is the case in Holland in the last century, improvements in

nutrition and the control of infectious disease have resulted in height

increases (after two previous millennia, actually, of height _decreases_

in the low-lander populations). Within a homogenous population, though,

there seem to be data suggesting (not just here) that larger individuals

are at risk for dying prematurely relative to their shorter genetically

similar exemplars. So the question becomes When one has maximized the

benefits of proper nutrition and disease control, will a tendency toward

further growth in height (possibly mediated by consumption of

food-transmitted artificial growth hormones and/or an underlying genetic

population tendency toward greater height) begin to work to the detriment

of longevity in a population?

Taller-> greater longevity

Anthropologically (this was a study looking at bones), of course this is

going to be true: when defending oneself was correlated with longevity,

an advantage in size was an obvious selective advantage for both the

individual and her/his descendents. Different issue, not necessarily

germane to today.

And while, after attaining full

height, you're stuck, perhaps you might " stretch " your

odds

by

wise coupling?

From that abstract,

" Overall, marriage to a younger spouse seemed to increase longevity

prospects (p<0.05). These differentials were not exclusively a

function of the marital age gap, but were affected by diverse confounders

such as reproductive output and socio-economic status. "

This suggests to me (and would suggest to most evolutionary

biologists/psychologists) that a fitness issue is dominant here (the rest

of the data were inconclusive, imo), in that someone who already had

" the right stuff " as manifest through higher SES and the

ability to attract a younger mate (and thus likely, statistically, to be

of higher intelligence, too--so unfair!) also was likely to live longer.

I'd suggest that the longevity was the result of an underlying better

vehicle (body) than of the choices made that became available to that

body.

Maco

On 9/16/06,

Dowling

<

christopher.a.dowling@...> wrote:

And yet, as our height as a species has increased, so has our overall

life expectancy.

This trend appears to contradict their thesis, no?

Maco

On 9/16/06, Maco

<mstewart@...>

wrote:

At 07:59 AM 9/16/2006, you wrote:

>

http://news./s/ap/20060915/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_tallest_people

Which per the following raises some questions:

Is height related to longevity?

Samaras TT,

Elrick H,

Storms LH.

Reventropy Associates, 11487 Madera Way, San Diego, CA

92124-2877,

USA.

SamarasTT@...

Over the last 100 years, studies have provided mixed results on the

mortality and health of tall and short people. However, during the

last 30

years, several researchers have found a negative correlation between

greater height and longevity based on relatively homogeneous deceased

population samples. Findings based on millions of deaths suggest that

shorter, smaller bodies have lower death rates and fewer diet-related

chronic diseases, especially past middle age. Shorter people also

appear to

have longer average lifespans. The authors suggest that the

differences in

longevity between the sexes is due to their height differences

because men

average about 8.0% taller than women and have a 7.9% lower life

expectancy

at birth. Animal experiments also show that smaller animals within

the same

species generally live longer. The relation between height and health

has

become more important in recent years because rapid developments in

genetic

engineering will offer parents the opportunity to increase the

heights of

their children in the near future. The authors contend that we should

not

be swept along into a new world of increasingly taller generations

without

careful consideration of the impact of a worldwide population of

taller and

heavier people.

PMID: 12586217

Maco

[Guest guest]

Maco,

Life expectancy at birth in the Netherlands is 79.

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/netherlands_statistics.html

Life expectancy at birth in the US is 77.9.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lifexpec.htm

If taller people die sooner, how can we explain these statistics?

Tony

===

--I think a couple of different (and seemingly contratdictory) things

are going on. As is the case in Holland in the last century,

improvements in nutrition and the control of infectious disease have

resulted in height increases (after two previous millennia, actually,

of height _decreases_ in the low-lander populations). Within a

homogenous population, though, there seem to be data suggesting (not

just here) that larger individuals are at risk for dying prematurely

relative to their shorter genetically similar exemplars. So the

question becomes When one has maximized the benefits of proper

nutrition and disease control, will a tendency toward further growth

in height (possibly mediated by consumption of food-transmitted

artificial growth hormones and/or an underlying genetic population

tendency toward greater height) begin to work to the detriment of

longevity in a population?

[Guest guest]

We are not a homogeneous population. If we had a nation of genetic

Netherlanders here who were shorter than the Dutch, then we'd have

something of interest to look at. As it is, the confounding variables are

so extensive that a real comparison of life expectancy doesn't yield

anything interesting.

Maco

At 09:55 AM 9/18/2006, you wrote:

Maco,

Life expectancy at birth in the Netherlands is 79.

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/netherlands_statistics.html

Life expectancy at birth in the US is 77.9.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lifexpec.htm

If taller people die sooner, how can we explain these statistics?

Tony

===

--I think a couple of different (and seemingly contratdictory)

things

are going on. As is the case in Holland in the last century,

improvements in nutrition and the control of infectious disease have

resulted in height increases (after two previous millennia,

actually,

of height _decreases_ in the low-lander populations). Within a

homogenous population, though, there seem to be data suggesting (not

just here) that larger individuals are at risk for dying prematurely

relative to their shorter genetically similar exemplars. So the

question becomes When one has maximized the benefits of proper

nutrition and disease control, will a tendency toward further growth

in height (possibly mediated by consumption of food-transmitted

artificial growth hormones and/or an underlying genetic population

tendency toward greater height) begin to work to the detriment of

longevity in a population?

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

It seems to me that the height/longevity issue can be resolved only

by comparing two populations that are very similar in all respects

except height. Do the taller ones die sooner or later than the

shorter ones?

There are many too many factors involved that have nothing at all to

do with height trying to compare the population of one country with

that of another. Not the least of these is the effectiveness of the

health system in keeping both tall and short people alive, while

another is the existance of minorities in some societies that get no

access at all to health care (Appalachia perhaps?), which may not

exist in the other country, thereby dragging down the average age

attained.

So, the issue, imo, is not whether people in a country which has on

average a taller population live longer than those in another

country, but rather whether within various individual countries the

taller ones die sooner than the shorter ones who are otherwise very

similar in most important respects.

I do not have an opinion about the relative longevity of people of

different heights. But I have certainly seen information that

purported to show that taller people die sooner, **AEE**.

Rodney.

>

> Maco,

>

> Life expectancy at birth in the Netherlands is 79.

> http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/netherlands_statistics.html

>

> Life expectancy at birth in the US is 77.9.

> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lifexpec.htm

>

> If taller people die sooner, how can we explain these statistics?

>

> Tony

>

> ===

> --I think a couple of different (and seemingly contratdictory)

things

> are going on. As is the case in Holland in the last century,

> improvements in nutrition and the control of infectious disease have

> resulted in height increases (after two previous millennia,

actually,

> of height _decreases_ in the low-lander populations). Within a

> homogenous population, though, there seem to be data suggesting (not

> just here) that larger individuals are at risk for dying prematurely

> relative to their shorter genetically similar exemplars. So the

> question becomes When one has maximized the benefits of proper

> nutrition and disease control, will a tendency toward further growth

> in height (possibly mediated by consumption of food-transmitted

> artificial growth hormones and/or an underlying genetic population

> tendency toward greater height) begin to work to the detriment of

> longevity in a population?

>