Re: BMI and the giants: some comments welcomed!

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane,

First of all, what is " the DH " ?

My boss is a hair taller than 6' 3 " . I've known him for 20 years.

He's now up to 200 lbs, which is a BMI of 25. He definitely has a

paunch at this weight. I thought he looked a lot better when he was

10 pounds lighter, which corresponds to a BMI of 23.7. Statistically

speaking, he's less prone to health problems at 190 lbs. He did not

look like a walking pencil at BMI 23.7 either. He looked like a tall,

slender man. Now he looks like a tall, slender man with a bowling

ball in his belly. I doubt very much it would be healthier for him to

gain a bunch of weight.

Diane

>

> Hi group

>

> I'm at a BMI of 20, but I wanted to ask you in particular about the

> DH.

>

> I'm looking for comments/opinions from other " giants " . You know who

> you are, the people [usually men....doubt that we have any women on

> this list who this applies to, but if you are there....] who are

> sick and tired of hearing " How's the weather up there? " , i.e., guys

> over 6'5 " .

>

> The BMI as listed [to me] seems to be utter nonsense for the tall

> people.

>

> The DH has a BMI of something like 37, and even when he gets to

> where his doctor says is a good weight for him, the BMI will still

> be about 30 [genetic lymphedema....legs like tree trunks....real

> fun....and yes, that is said very sardonically].

>

> According to the BMI chart, he should weigh about 208 at 6'7 " .

>

> YEAH, RIGHT........have you ever seen a 6'7 " guy at 208? Have you

> ever seen a walking pencil before?

>

> OK: Looking from comments from other very tall people, their

> reactions/opinions about the BMI, and from the other medical

> professionals on this list.

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

> Diane

>

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

There is a lot of talk about the appropriate BMI target for CRON.

There is talk of the best BF% for CRON. There is a little talk about

the best ratio of waist-to-butt to aim at. Which is appropriate?

The answer is: " None of the above " . And also " All of the above " .

It seems obvious that we should aim to be HEALTHY as measured by

*many* biomarkers that are important for health and which are known

to improve dramatically as people transition to 'established CRON

status'.

We have discussed this before. The list of measures includes ALL

those listed above, among many others. For example, add waist

circumference to height; systolic blood pressure; diastolic blood

pressure; body temperature; white blood cell count; fasting glucose;

fasting insulin; ratio triglycerides to HDL; carotid IMT; hsCRP; TNF-

alpha; T3; IL-6; and doubtless plenty of others.

Each of us is different. No one, or two, or even three of these

measures can give you an accurate indication of your CRON status in

comparison with others. Everyone does not automatically see their

numbers shift to the exact same numbers, for each measure, as

everyone else. But by taking them all together and comparing your

average performance in comparison with, for example, the data for the

WUSTL group, you can get a very good idea about where you are

positioned in the spectrum.

I offered to do these calculations for members here perhaps six

months ago. Out of ~2000 members about a dozen indicated sufficient

interest to ask me to do the calculations for them. Don't ask me to

do any in the next few weeks as that computer of mine is currently

down and should be up and operating again soon. But it seems to me

that making the decision that restriction for you has gone far enough

and it is time to stabilize at your current level of CRON should be

made on the basis of the evidence that you are thoroughly healthy as

measured by multiple CRON criteria.

And remember that having numbers that are more extreme than the

average for the WUSTL group may not be healthier .......... we do

not know what the optimal level is for all these benchmarks. More

than likely they will vary by age and gender and probably by many

other criteria as well. But we do know that the WUSTL group

represents a lot of canaries in the coal mine. Some have been doing

CRON for five years or more and they still seem to be VERY healthy.

But there is a great deal that is not yet known about CRON.

Especially CRON in humans. And we are talking about our health here -

something that most people realize we should be cautious about

gambling with.

So read all the studies, then read all the caveats here about extreme

versions of CRON, and then make your own decisions based on all the

factors we know about. And make those decisions on the basis of a

large number of variables - not just based on BMI, or waist-to-

height, or whatever.

JMO, fwiw.

Rodney.

>

> Hi group

>

> I'm at a BMI of 20, but I wanted to ask you in particular about the

> DH.

>

> I'm looking for comments/opinions from other " giants " . You know

who

> you are, the people [usually men....doubt that we have any women on

> this list who this applies to, but if you are there....] who are

> sick and tired of hearing " How's the weather up there? " , i.e., guys

> over 6'5 " .

>

> The BMI as listed [to me] seems to be utter nonsense for the tall

> people.

>

> The DH has a BMI of something like 37, and even when he gets to

> where his doctor says is a good weight for him, the BMI will still

> be about 30 [genetic lymphedema....legs like tree trunks....real

> fun....and yes, that is said very sardonically].

>

> According to the BMI chart, he should weigh about 208 at 6'7 " .

>

> YEAH, RIGHT........have you ever seen a 6'7 " guy at 208? Have you

> ever seen a walking pencil before?

>

> OK: Looking from comments from other very tall people, their

> reactions/opinions about the BMI, and from the other medical

> professionals on this list.

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

> Diane

>

[Guest guest]

I am 6' 6 1/2 " tall. I was a shotputter at Stanford during my

college days. I currently weight about 220 lbs. I agree that the

BMI calculation is difficult to apply to us big guys. The training

I performed resulted in my bones storing more calcium than regular

people. I have bones spurs where the stresses were exceptional. I

doubt I will ever get to 200 lbs without sacrificing my thigh

muscles, but I am reluctant to do this, because, I believe, muscle

mass performs vital health functions and is essential for my quality

of life. (I did get down to 205 for about 6 months - I did not like

it.)

I am practicing moderate CR at about 2000 - 2200 calories. My

waking body temp is consistently about 96 degrees. At 49 my blood

pressure is the same as when I was 15. During the summer I

typically ride 100 miles/week on my bike, and I lift weights in the

winters.

Two of my weight throwing college teammates have died.

Other measures of performance do not scale well from short to tall.

Push ups and chin ups are much easier for shorter, lighter people.

A guy who is 5' 6 " tall 140 lbs is pushing 60% of the weight 70% of

the distance. A push up or chin up requires only 42% of the

energy. While I could never be a gymnast, they will never be a

shotputter.

Doug

>

> Hi group

>

> I'm at a BMI of 20, but I wanted to ask you in particular about

the

> DH.

>

> I'm looking for comments/opinions from other " giants " . You know

who

> you are, the people [usually men....doubt that we have any women

on

> this list who this applies to, but if you are there....] who are

> sick and tired of hearing " How's the weather up there? " , i.e.,

guys

> over 6'5 " .

>

> The BMI as listed [to me] seems to be utter nonsense for the tall

> people.

>

> The DH has a BMI of something like 37, and even when he gets to

> where his doctor says is a good weight for him, the BMI will still

> be about 30 [genetic lymphedema....legs like tree trunks....real

> fun....and yes, that is said very sardonically].

>

> According to the BMI chart, he should weigh about 208 at 6'7 " .

>

> YEAH, RIGHT........have you ever seen a 6'7 " guy at 208? Have you

> ever seen a walking pencil before?

>

> OK: Looking from comments from other very tall people, their

> reactions/opinions about the BMI, and from the other medical

> professionals on this list.

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

> Diane

>