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I use to practice in a small town of 3,000 (Mt.Vernon Missouri). In one year

a nearby Chiropractor (in Aurora Missouri-pop.6,000) adjusted a woman with

rheumatoid arthritis. Her MD " gave his blessing " for her to be adjusted by a

chiropractor as long as he did not touch her neck, since the RA had deteriorated

her atlantodontal ligament. He insisted, she protested but finally gave in -

her adjusted her and paralyzed her from the neck down. EVERYBODY heard about it

- did not reduce his practice at all.

A chiropractor in Monet Missouri (pop. 6000) had a young fit fireman in his

table the same year. The fireman was face down. The chiropractor did a

" knee/neck manuever " in which he put his knee on the back of the firemans neck,

laced

his fingers around his forehead and arched the head swiftly backwards. This

paralyzed the young man. EVERYBODY heard about it.

That year I was asked to give an interview regarding chiropractic on a local

radio station in Monett Missouri. Literally 5 seconds before we air the

interviewer turns to me and asks " Would you mind discussing the safety of

chiropractic? " . I had brought facts and figures on many things related to

chiropractic

so I eagerly said " Sure " , to which he replied " Great, my son the fireman was

recently paralyzed by a chiropractor " .

My heart stopped and I wanted to run out of there. Luckily the guy was very

open minded, did not come loaded for elephants and allowed me a very ample

opportunity to address these problems.

However for the next 5 years or so I was there, every so often I would get a

new patient who had heard of both of these very real events. It was always

sort of frustrating, but it never really seemed to hurt business much. I was

always amazed that the guys who had literally paralyzed and damn near killed

patients thrived in business.

One other story, a MD in Republic Missouri got caught selling black market

drugs. He would prescribe pain killers and the sort. Then he would do home

visits on these patients, steal the medications back and sell them on the black

market. I had patients who were also patients of his and it was in the

newspaper.

These patients stayed loyal patients of his and he never went out of

business. I am not sure what the Missouri medical board ruled against him. Maybe

its

small towns - but I saw many people get very bad publicity and it never

squashed them.

Anglen

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Sticks and Stones,

This reminds me of a patient that I had who came in and told me that he

wife did not want him to get his neck adjusted because an MD had told

her that two people died in portland this year from a chiropractic

adjustment. When he told me about this all I said was that I am sure I

would have heard about this if it would have happened in my own back

yard. I decided not to ask who the physician was. By the time the

patient left he had lost much respect for the M.D who had lied to him.

Sometimes it is hard not to retaliate in situations like these, but

eventually the patient will come to learn the truth on their own which

is much more powerful.

Chiropractic has been around for over a hundred years in the face of

much great adversity than the P.T. you speak of. Chiropractic works,

this is the reason why we have risen to the point where we currently

stand. It is the patients that have supported this profession and will

continue to support it as long as we do what we have been doing all

along.

The comment about " peri-medical professionals " did bother me. We are

a completely different breed then our medical counterparts. I don't

want to be associated with a profession that is the third leading cause

of death in this country.

When we learn to embrace what we are and stop trying to walk and talk

like something we are not the world we see us for that ....a complete

and separate profession not a " peri-medical profession. "

My advice is to let this guy talk, you are not going to change his

mind. He sounds rather set in his ways. What you can do is educate

your patients about what we do and why we do it. Provide a forum for

them to ask these questions, have them invite friends, significant

others, hell invite the guy from the radio. Tell him that you would

like for him to have an educated viewpoint on what seems to be one of

his favorite subjects. You can send him to my class also.

Namaste Chiropractic

On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 02:20 PM, jocelynkdc@... wrote:

> Dear listserve members,

>

> I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation.  (My phone

> number is below if you'd prefer to call me). 

> There is a physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show

> locally. On the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors

> (I'm not sure who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4

> times while in my car).  Anyway, three of the four times that I

> listened to about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily

> slanted remarks about chiropractors.

> On the first occasion, he adamantly told the listeners to be sure to

> get an OK from their physician before coming to his clinic-- " not your

> massage therapist, personal trainer or chiropractor-- your

> physician " .  He repeated the part about " not your chiropractor-- your

> physician " in the next sentence or so.

>      Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and heard a

> prominent OHSU orthopedist being  interviewed about some interesting

> patient care topics.  Right before the end of the show, the P.T. said

> he had one last question:  " What do you think about chiropractors?  I

> know a lot of the them compare themselves to medical doctors. "   The

> orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but answered it indirectly

> by saying that " with any of the " peri-medical " professionals, you want

> to look at what their level of knowledge is " .

>      Again, today, this P.T. was talking about proper

> resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect that p.t.s

> are way ahead of all the other health professions in terms of

> knowledge about this topic.  He then said that when it comes to

> knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true-- " even a

> chiropractor " (doesn't come close).

>      My question is, am I overreacting by thinking I should do

> something about this?  I know that other professionals make

> negative/untrue remarks about D.C.'s all the time, but this is a

> weekly broadcast show on a very popular statewide radio station; (it's

> one of my presets).  I suppose one response would be that  D.C.s

> should be on the radio/TV more themselves to help dispel

> misinformation, and this is something I would be interested in at some

> point.  However, right now, aside from never referring to this p.t.'s

> clinic, obviously, I am contemplating either:

> a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter asking him to refrain

> from further derogatory remarks, especially blatantly misleading

> ones,   or

> B)  calling our board or the p.t. board    or

> c) doing nothing?

> ----any thoughts?  I have no interest in just calling the guy to

> educate him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't

> want to waste my breath.

>

> Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C.  (a physician)

> ActiveLife Chiropractic

> (503) 335-0449

>

<image.tiff>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is

> to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on

> listserve members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

> However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print,

> forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another

> member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers

> have been removed.

>

>

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While I tend to agree with , what someone says in the privacy of their office is one thing, but on air waves is entirely another. His professionalism and sense of ethics is seriously asquew. If we had a show and were talking about PTs in that tone, we would have a very quick visit from their heirarchy. Sunny

Re: negative talk show by P.T.

Sticks and Stones, This reminds me of a patient that I had who came in and told me that he wife did not want him to get his neck adjusted because an MD had told her that two people died in portland this year from a chiropractic adjustment. When he told me about this all I said was that I am sure I would have heard about this if it would have happened in my own back yard. I decided not to ask who the physician was. By the time the patient left he had lost much respect for the M.D who had lied to him. Sometimes it is hard not to retaliate in situations like these, but eventually the patient will come to learn the truth on their own which is much more powerful.Chiropractic has been around for over a hundred years in the face of much great adversity than the P.T. you speak of. Chiropractic works, this is the reason why we have risen to the point where we currently stand. It is the patients that have supported this profession and will continue to support it as long as we do what we have been doing all along. The comment about "peri-medical professionals" did bother me. We are a completely different breed then our medical counterparts. I don't want to be associated with a profession that is the third leading cause of death in this country. When we learn to embrace what we are and stop trying to walk and talk like something we are not the world we see us for that ....a complete and separate profession not a "peri-medical profession." My advice is to let this guy talk, you are not going to change his mind. He sounds rather set in his ways. What you can do is educate your patients about what we do and why we do it. Provide a forum for them to ask these questions, have them invite friends, significant others, hell invite the guy from the radio. Tell him that you would like for him to have an educated viewpoint on what seems to be one of his favorite subjects. You can send him to my class also. Namaste Chiropractic On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 02:20 PM, jocelynkdc@... wrote:

Dear listserve members,I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation. (My phone number is below if you'd prefer to call me). There is a physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show locally. On the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors (I'm not sure who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4 times while in my car). Anyway, three of the four times that I listened to about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily slanted remarks about chiropractors.On the first occasion, he adamantly told the listeners to be sure to get an OK from their physician before coming to his clinic-- "not your massage therapist, personal trainer or chiropractor-- your physician". He repeated the part about "not your chiropractor-- your physician" in the next sentence or so. Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and heard a prominent OHSU orthopedist being interviewed about some interesting patient care topics. Right before the end of the show, the P.T. said he had one last question: "What do you think about chiropractors? I know a lot of the them compare themselves to medical doctors." The orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but answered it indirectly by saying that "with any of the "peri-medical" professionals, you want to look at what their level of knowledge is". Again, today, this P.T. was talking about proper resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect that p.t.s are way ahead of all the other health professions in terms of knowledge about this topic. He then said that when it comes to knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true-- "even a chiropractor" (doesn't come close). My question is, am I overreacting by thinking I should do something about this? I know that other professionals make negative/untrue remarks about D.C.'s all the time, but this is a weekly broadcast show on a very popular statewide radio station; (it's one of my presets). I suppose one response would be that D.C.s should be on the radio/TV more themselves to help dispel misinformation, and this is something I would be interested in at some point. However, right now, aside from never referring to this p.t.'s clinic, obviously, I am contemplating either:a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter asking him to refrain from further derogatory remarks, especially blatantly misleading ones, orb) calling our board or the p.t. board orc) doing nothing?----any thoughts? I have no interest in just calling the guy to educate him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't want to waste my breath.Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C. (a physician)ActiveLife Chiropractic(503) 335-0449<image.tiff>

OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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Joce: In this universe, what you focus your energy on will only grow and grow.

That PT dude apparently focuses alot of attention on chiropractic, and so

chiropractic will only grow and grow in his world! You must take your focus off

of him and his problems and his issues. Put a laser focus into using your own

heart, head and hands to continue to develop into a masterful chiropractor

helping thousands of people restore and maintain better health- naturally,

rationally and sustainably. Don't think for two seconds about that dude...he is

a minor problem yes, but he is way low on the list of chiropractic priorities.

Write his name on a little piece of paper and then burn it. Focus on the art and

science of chiropractic.

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Joyce: I have read the other posts on your question and mostly disagree. I am a talk radio DJ with a health program every week. I interview professionals of all stripes including MD's and all alternative providers including hypnotherapists. Tomorrow I have an herbalist coming to discuss aromatherapy in the garden. I have even interviewed a neurobiologist who studies memory. I haven't interviewed a PT, even though I know several. People call and ask to be on or know someone they would like on. If their goal is not JUST to promote themselves, I usually agree. I have also had interdisciplinary panels on various health topics. Those are a blast.

I am assuming this is a commercial radio (why would anyone want to listen to that ever). They probably do care about their audience. I would complain in writing to the station manager (they are in charge and make the bucks to back it up) with your complaints about his comments that are both offensive and inaccurate. I think the CAO should also weigh in with a letter from the executive director (is there one) or borad of directors. Portland is the largest radio market in the state. The majority of the chiropractors are in the Portland area, within listening range of this jerk. I think every chiropractor in the Portland area should write a letter objecting to having our profession slandered every week. I don't think our board can do a thing, but the PT board may. How about everyone CC: their letter to the PT board? One does not have to be rude, accusatory or nasty to point out mistakes.\

Good luck. Ann Goldeen, Astoria

negative talk show by P.T.

Dear listserve members,I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation. (My phone number is below if you'd prefer to call me). There is a physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show locally. On the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors (I'm not sure who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4 times while in my car). Anyway, three of the four times that I listened to about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily slanted remarks about chiropractors.On the first occasion, he adamantly told the listeners to be sure to get an OK from their physician before coming to his clinic-- "not your massage therapist, personal trainer or chiropractor-- your physician". He repeated the part about "not your chiropractor-- your physician" in the next sentence or so. Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and heard a prominent OHSU orthopedist being interviewed about some interesting patient care topics. Right before the end of the show, the P.T. said he had one last question: "What do you think about chiropractors? I know a lot of the them compare themselves to medical doctors." The orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but answered it indirectly by saying that "with any of the "peri-medical" professionals, you want to look at what their level of knowledge is". Again, today, this P.T. was talking about proper resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect that p.t.s are way ahead of all the other health professions in terms of knowledge about this topic. He then said that when it comes to knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true-- "even a chiropractor" (doesn't come close). My question is, am I overreacting by thinking I should do something about this? I know that other professionals make negative/untrue remarks about D.C.'s all the time, but this is a weekly broadcast show on a very popular statewide radio station; (it's one of my presets). I suppose one response would be that D.C.s should be on the radio/TV more themselves to help dispel misinformation, and this is something I would be interested in at some point. However, right now, aside from never referring to this p.t.'s clinic, obviously, I am contemplating either:a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter asking him to refrain from further derogatory remarks, especially blatantly misleading ones, orb) calling our board or the p.t. board orc) doing nothing?----any thoughts? I have no interest in just calling the guy to educate him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't want to waste my breath.Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C. (a physician)ActiveLife Chiropractic(503) 335-0449 OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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Hi Ann,

You've made a couple of good suggestions. I have another: how about we contact those patients in our practices who have had 18 months of care from a PT and managed to improve with 8 visits under our hands...get them to call the guy and 'mention how much better they felt' with real care.

Or perhaps, all of the above? Sunny

negative talk show by P.T.

Dear listserve members,I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation. (My phone number is below if you'd prefer to call me). There is a physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show locally. On the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors (I'm not sure who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4 times while in my car). Anyway, three of the four times that I listened to about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily slanted remarks about chiropractors.On the first occasion, he adamantly told the listeners to be sure to get an OK from their physician before coming to his clinic-- "not your massage therapist, personal trainer or chiropractor-- your physician". He repeated the part about "not your chiropractor-- your physician" in the next sentence or so. Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and heard a prominent OHSU orthopedist being interviewed about some interesting patient care topics. Right before the end of the show, the P.T. said he had one last question: "What do you think about chiropractors? I know a lot of the them compare themselves to medical doctors." The orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but answered it indirectly by saying that "with any of the "peri-medical" professionals, you want to look at what their level of knowledge is". Again, today, this P.T. was talking about proper resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect that p.t.s are way ahead of all the other health professions in terms of knowledge about this topic. He then said that when it comes to knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true-- "even a chiropractor" (doesn't come close). My question is, am I overreacting by thinking I should do something about this? I know that other professionals make negative/untrue remarks about D.C.'s all the time, but this is a weekly broadcast show on a very popular statewide radio station; (it's one of my presets). I suppose one response would be that D.C.s should be on the radio/TV more themselves to help dispel misinformation, and this is something I would be interested in at some point. However, right now, aside from never referring to this p.t.'s clinic, obviously, I am contemplating either:a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter asking him to refrain from further derogatory remarks, especially blatantly misleading ones, orb) calling our board or the p.t. board orc) doing nothing?----any thoughts? I have no interest in just calling the guy to educate him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't want to waste my breath.Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C. (a physician)ActiveLife Chiropractic(503) 335-0449 OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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If you really want to shake them up cc the letter to all the sponsors with a

cover letter advising them of a possible boycott from DC's and their pts. of

therir product as long as they support slanderous propoganda

Dr. Charlie Caughlin DC

155 NW 1st Ave

Day, Or 97845

off 541-575-1063

hm 541-575-1103

fax 541-575-5554

----- negative talk show by P.T.

>

> Dear listserve members,

>

> I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation. (My

> phone number is below if you'd prefer to call me). There is a

> physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show locally. On

> the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors (I'm not sure

> who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4 times while

> in my car). Anyway, three of the four times that I listened to

> about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily slanted

> remarks about chiropractors. On the first occasion, he adamantly

> told the listeners to be sure to get an OK from their physician

> before coming to his clinic-- " not your massage therapist, personal

> trainer or chiropractor-- your physician " . He repeated the part

> about " not your chiropractor-- your physician " in the next sentence

> or so. Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and

> heard a prominent OHSU orthopedist being interviewed about some

> interesting patient care topics. Right before the end of the show,

> the P.T. said he had one last question: " What do you think about

> chiropractors? I know a lot of the them compare themselves to

> medical doctors. " The orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but

> answered it indirectly by saying that " with any of the " peri-

> medical " professionals, you want to look at what their level of

> knowledge is " . Again, today, this P.T. was talking about

> proper resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect

> that p.t.s are way ahead of all the other health professions in

> terms of knowledge about this topic. He then said that when it

> comes to knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true--

> " even a chiropractor " (doesn't come close). My question is,

> am I overreacting by thinking I should do something about this? I

> know that other professionals make negative/untrue remarks about

> D.C.'s all the time, but this is a weekly broadcast show on a very

> popular statewide radio station; (it's one of my presets). I

> suppose one response would be that D.C.s should be on the radio/TV

> more themselves to help dispel misinformation, and this is something

> I would be interested in at some point. However, right now, aside

> from never referring to this p.t.'s clinic, obviously, I am

> contemplating either: a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter

> asking him to refrain from further derogatory remarks, especially

> blatantly misleading ones, or B) calling our board or the p.t.

> board or c) doing nothing?

> ----any thoughts? I have no interest in just calling the guy to educate

him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't want to waste

my breath.

>

> Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C. (a physician)

> ActiveLife Chiropractic

> (503) 335-0449

>

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I completely agree with Ann and I completely disagree with those who thought these comments should be left alone and allowed to continue. Funny how if I say something negative about my own profession I get lambasted from every vehement voice out there but if someone from the 'outside' says anything incorrect or negative it is allowed to slide. I speak up everytime I get a chance when someone misrepresents or shows their ignorance about our profession. The DO at the OHSU seminar cowed when I spoke up and my written comments were given to him. His crude associate didn't show this year. U of O asked for an 'outgoing' assessment when my son graduated and asked his intention for further plans ie becoming an MD. I wrote that they should include DC's and this year they did. ly I think professions should state their strength's and ways to improve their short comings rather than criticize another profession, especially in public. In our own private forum we should freely be able to make commentary in our strengths and our weaknesses and go forward without over inflated sense of our contributions to the big picture of health and healthcare.

I would like to know the name of the radio station and the PT and I will listen myself for the comments. If I hear anything negative I won't hesitate to object verbally, in writing or via a boycott of the sponsors. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

sharron fuchs dc

-----Original Message-----From: Ann [mailto:anngoldeen@...]Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:55 PM ; jocelynkdc@...Subject: Re: negative talk show by P.T.

Joyce: I have read the other posts on your question and mostly disagree. I am a talk radio DJ with a health program every week. I interview professionals of all stripes including MD's and all alternative providers including hypnotherapists. Tomorrow I have an herbalist coming to discuss aromatherapy in the garden. I have even interviewed a neurobiologist who studies memory. I haven't interviewed a PT, even though I know several. People call and ask to be on or know someone they would like on. If their goal is not JUST to promote themselves, I usually agree. I have also had interdisciplinary panels on various health topics. Those are a blast.

I am assuming this is a commercial radio (why would anyone want to listen to that ever). They probably do care about their audience. I would complain in writing to the station manager (they are in charge and make the bucks to back it up) with your complaints about his comments that are both offensive and inaccurate. I think the CAO should also weigh in with a letter from the executive director (is there one) or borad of directors. Portland is the largest radio market in the state. The majority of the chiropractors are in the Portland area, within listening range of this jerk. I think every chiropractor in the Portland area should write a letter objecting to having our profession slandered every week. I don't think our board can do a thing, but the PT board may. How about everyone CC: their letter to the PT board? One does not have to be rude, accusatory or nasty to point out mistakes.\

Good luck. Ann Goldeen, Astoria

negative talk show by P.T.

Dear listserve members,I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation. (My phone number is below if you'd prefer to call me). There is a physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show locally. On the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors (I'm not sure who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4 times while in my car). Anyway, three of the four times that I listened to about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily slanted remarks about chiropractors.On the first occasion, he adamantly told the listeners to be sure to get an OK from their physician before coming to his clinic-- "not your massage therapist, personal trainer or chiropractor-- your physician". He repeated the part about "not your chiropractor-- your physician" in the next sentence or so. Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and heard a prominent OHSU orthopedist being interviewed about some interesting patient care topics. Right before the end of the show, the P.T. said he had one last question: "What do you think about chiropractors? I know a lot of the them compare themselves to medical doctors." The orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but answered it indirectly by saying that "with any of the "peri-medical" professionals, you want to look at what their level of knowledge is". Again, today, this P.T. was talking about proper resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect that p.t.s are way ahead of all the other health professions in terms of knowledge about this topic. He then said that when it comes to knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true-- "even a chiropractor" (doesn't come close). My question is, am I overreacting by thinking I should do something about this? I know that other professionals make negative/untrue remarks about D.C.'s all the time, but this is a weekly broadcast show on a very popular statewide radio station; (it's one of my presets). I suppose one response would be that D.C.s should be on the radio/TV more themselves to help dispel misinformation, and this is something I would be interested in at some point. However, right now, aside from never referring to this p.t.'s clinic, obviously, I am contemplating either:a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter asking him to refrain from further derogatory remarks, especially blatantly misleading ones, orb) calling our board or the p.t. board orc) doing nothing?----any thoughts? I have no interest in just calling the guy to educate him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't want to waste my breath.Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C. (a physician)ActiveLife Chiropractic(503) 335-0449 OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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Well said, Ann. I agree with the hit them in the pocketbook

scenario. Wishing for this kind of problem to go away will just not

happen. Someone else wrote that Chiropractic has been under attack

for 100 years and has always survived. It has survived because

people like Ann have had the intestinal fortitude to hit " them "

where it hurts.

Whoever made the original post, could you name the station, time and

PT host, please?

Dennis Nowack DC

Beaverton, OR

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Sunny: That is a great idea, however, it will be more effective if those patients live within the broadcast area of the aforementioned radio station. Ann

negative talk show by P.T.

Dear listserve members,I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation. (My phone number is below if you'd prefer to call me). There is a physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show locally. On the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors (I'm not sure who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4 times while in my car). Anyway, three of the four times that I listened to about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily slanted remarks about chiropractors.On the first occasion, he adamantly told the listeners to be sure to get an OK from their physician before coming to his clinic-- "not your massage therapist, personal trainer or chiropractor-- your physician". He repeated the part about "not your chiropractor-- your physician" in the next sentence or so. Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and heard a prominent OHSU orthopedist being interviewed about some interesting patient care topics. Right before the end of the show, the P.T. said he had one last question: "What do you think about chiropractors? I know a lot of the them compare themselves to medical doctors." The orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but answered it indirectly by saying that "with any of the "peri-medical" professionals, you want to look at what their level of knowledge is". Again, today, this P.T. was talking about proper resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect that p.t.s are way ahead of all the other health professions in terms of knowledge about this topic. He then said that when it comes to knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true-- "even a chiropractor" (doesn't come close). My question is, am I overreacting by thinking I should do something about this? I know that other professionals make negative/untrue remarks about D.C.'s all the time, but this is a weekly broadcast show on a very popular statewide radio station; (it's one of my presets). I suppose one response would be that D.C.s should be on the radio/TV more themselves to help dispel misinformation, and this is something I would be interested in at some point. However, right now, aside from never referring to this p.t.'s clinic, obviously, I am contemplating either:a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter asking him to refrain from further derogatory remarks, especially blatantly misleading ones, orb) calling our board or the p.t. board orc) doing nothing?----any thoughts? I have no interest in just calling the guy to educate him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't want to waste my breath.Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C. (a physician)ActiveLife Chiropractic(503) 335-0449 OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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Hey why doesn't someone complain to his licensing board? Someone, like public and professionals. This will turn the heat on from another direction.

Colwell

negative talk show by P.T.

Dear listserve members,I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation. (My phone number is below if you'd prefer to call me). There is a physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show locally. On the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors (I'm not sure who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4 times while in my car). Anyway, three of the four times that I listened to about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily slanted remarks about chiropractors.On the first occasion, he adamantly told the listeners to be sure to get an OK from their physician before coming to his clinic-- "not your massage therapist, personal trainer or chiropractor-- your physician". He repeated the part about "not your chiropractor-- your physician" in the next sentence or so. Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and heard a prominent OHSU orthopedist being interviewed about some interesting patient care topics. Right before the end of the show, the P.T. said he had one last question: "What do you think about chiropractors? I know a lot of the them compare themselves to medical doctors." The orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but answered it indirectly by saying that "with any of the "peri-medical" professionals, you want to look at what their level of knowledge is". Again, today, this P.T. was talking about proper resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect that p.t.s are way ahead of all the other health professions in terms of knowledge about this topic. He then said that when it comes to knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true-- "even a chiropractor" (doesn't come close). My question is, am I overreacting by thinking I should do something about this? I know that other professionals make negative/untrue remarks about D.C.'s all the time, but this is a weekly broadcast show on a very popular statewide radio station; (it's one of my presets). I suppose one response would be that D.C.s should be on the radio/TV more themselves to help dispel misinformation, and this is something I would be interested in at some point. However, right now, aside from never referring to this p.t.'s clinic, obviously, I am contemplating either:a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter asking him to refrain from further derogatory remarks, especially blatantly misleading ones, orb) calling our board or the p.t. board orc) doing nothing?----any thoughts? I have no interest in just calling the guy to educate him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't want to waste my breath.Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C. (a physician)ActiveLife Chiropractic(503) 335-0449 OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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Just to let all of you know: the CAO Board has begun investigation of his comments as well. The precise response has not yet been decided but your thoughts and ideas are being considered. Please continue the discussion. Look for the next message from me: it will contain Jocelyn Kirnak's note with the PT's name and call letter information.

Sunny Kierstyn

CAO Board Member

negative talk show by P.T.

Dear listserve members,I wonder if you can give me some feedback on a situation. (My phone number is below if you'd prefer to call me). There is a physical therapist who has a weekly call-in talk show locally. On the show, he sometimes has, as guests, medical doctors (I'm not sure who else as I've only caught parts of the show about 4 times while in my car). Anyway, three of the four times that I listened to about 10-15 minutes of the show, he made derogatorily slanted remarks about chiropractors.On the first occasion, he adamantly told the listeners to be sure to get an OK from their physician before coming to his clinic-- "not your massage therapist, personal trainer or chiropractor-- your physician". He repeated the part about "not your chiropractor-- your physician" in the next sentence or so. Then, a few weeks ago, I tuned in my car radio, and heard a prominent OHSU orthopedist being interviewed about some interesting patient care topics. Right before the end of the show, the P.T. said he had one last question: "What do you think about chiropractors? I know a lot of the them compare themselves to medical doctors." The orthopedist sort of skirted the question, but answered it indirectly by saying that "with any of the "peri-medical" professionals, you want to look at what their level of knowledge is". Again, today, this P.T. was talking about proper resistance-workout form, and said something to the effect that p.t.s are way ahead of all the other health professions in terms of knowledge about this topic. He then said that when it comes to knowledge about functional movement, again, this is true-- "even a chiropractor" (doesn't come close). My question is, am I overreacting by thinking I should do something about this? I know that other professionals make negative/untrue remarks about D.C.'s all the time, but this is a weekly broadcast show on a very popular statewide radio station; (it's one of my presets). I suppose one response would be that D.C.s should be on the radio/TV more themselves to help dispel misinformation, and this is something I would be interested in at some point. However, right now, aside from never referring to this p.t.'s clinic, obviously, I am contemplating either:a) writing the p.t. and the station a letter asking him to refrain from further derogatory remarks, especially blatantly misleading ones, orb) calling our board or the p.t. board orc) doing nothing?----any thoughts? I have no interest in just calling the guy to educate him, as the attitude is obviously deeply ingrained and I don't want to waste my breath.Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C. (a physician)ActiveLife Chiropractic(503) 335-0449 OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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