Re: Leucine vs CR Catabolism

[Guest guest]

Leucine has popped up here in conversation before, the last time when

a study was posted that attributed the amino-acid with preventing

natural muscle loss as we age.

Since that time, I've developed a habit for non-fat or low-fat cottage

cheese, which seems to be one of the best sources of leucine with the

least calories.

Dave

>

> Leucine is an amino acid, one of the branch-chain

> amino acids (BCAAs). Supplementation with BCAAs is

> popular among athletes and there is data indicating

> their ability to not only increase muscle mass with

> exercise but preserve it against wasting syndromes.

> Research also suggests that leucine is the key

> anti-catabolic BCAA, thus weightlifting (ie, anabolic)

> supplements are increasingly focusing on leucine.

>

> The following study looked to see what effect leucine

> has on protein synthesis in rats subjected to

> food-restriction-induced catabolism, essentially CR.

> The results match those observed in humans with

> wasting syndrome. Leucine supplementation seems to

> have preserved muscle mass vs controls. Also of note,

> there was no difference in the body weights of the two

> groups, but the controls had more fat. This suggests

> that leucine causes the body to spend fat and save

> muscle. Below the following study are some related

> studies. ~Ian

>

>

> Nutrition. 2006 May;22(5):520-7.

>

> Effects of leucine supplementation on the body

> composition and protein status of rats submitted to

> food restriction.

>

> OBJECTIVE: Acute administration of leucine has been

> shown to stimulate certain protein synthesis related

> anabolic processes. However, the effect of chronic

> leucine administration in a catabolic situation caused

> by food restriction (FR) has not been established. We

> therefore evaluated the effect of chronic leucine

> supplementation on the body composition and some

> indicators of protein nutritional status of rats

> submitted to FR. METHODS: Adult male Wistar rats were

> submitted to 50% FR for 6 weeks. The control group

> received the AIN-93M diet and the leucine group

> received the same diet supplemented with 5.91 g

> L-leucine/kg ration. We then determined carcass

> chemical composition, serum leptin, albumin and total

> protein concentrations, and protein, DNA and RNA

> concentrations in gastrocnemius muscle and liver.

> RESULTS: No difference in final body weight was

> observed between groups. However, the leucine group

> presented a lower amount of body fat (P < 0.05).

> Leptin concentration showed a directly proportional

> correlation with the amount of body fat (r = 0.88, P <

> 0.05), but no significant difference in serum leptin

> concentration was observed between groups (P = 0.08).

> Regarding protein nutritional status, liver protein

> concentration was higher in the leucine group (P <

> 0.05). In the gastrocnemius muscle, a higher RNA

> concentration (P < 0.05) and a tendency towards higher

> DNA concentration (P = 0.06) were observed in the

> leucine group. CONCLUSION: The results indicate that

> low-dose leucine supplementation increases body fat

> loss and improves liver protein status and the

> capacity of muscle protein synthesis in rats submitted

> to FR.

>

>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=16600817

>

> Related studies:

>

> * Attenuation of the protein wasting associated with

> bed rest by branched-chain amino acids.

>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=10467608

>

> * Leucine suppresses acid-induced protein wasting in

> L6 rat muscle cells.

>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=11422399

>

>

> IAN: HMB (beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate) is a

> metabolite of leucine that has itself been shown to

> increase and preserve muscle mass against severe

> catabolic states. A few examples of the latter:

>

> * " These results suggest that HMB preserves lean body

> mass and attenuates protein degradation. "

>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=15665304

>

> * " CONCLUSION: These results show that HMB, arginine,

> and glutamine can be safely used to treat muscle

> wasting associated with AIDS and cancer. "

>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=15080599

>

> * Nutritional treatment for acquired immunodeficiency

> virus-associated wasting using beta-hydroxy

> beta-methylbutyrate, glutamine, and arginine: a

> randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.

>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=10850936

>

> http://iangoddard.net

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave:

This raises an issue I have asked about previously. Last time I did

not see a reply, so I will try again. What tangible evidence do we

have regarding the most appropriate amount of protein and what types

of amino acids would it be good to emphasize, and which to de-

emphasize?

In other words, do we have experiments in mice, or whatever, where

they fed them various different amounts of total protein and

different amounts of different amino acids and took a look at any

lifespan variations?

We had a post a few days ago that seemed to indicate that chinese

centenarians prosper on 11% of their calories from protein. Is this

something to which we should be paying attention? That is just 47

grams for someone on a 1700 kcal diet. And **IF** their longevity is

in part a function of lower protein intake, then perhaps they might

do even better on even less than 11%? I am still eagerly awaiting

the Partridge experiments at University College, London, England

which is studying in fruit flies whether restriction of fats or

proteins is more important for longevity (they had previously shown

that restricting carbohydrates was of only minor significance).

Possibly it will turn out that we will live the longest by

restricting, principally, protein?

In addition, a couple of years ago Warren posted here saying that the

40% restricted mice which lived the longest were those that had

maintained the highest levels of body ***FAT***. (NOT those that had

maintained the highest levels of lean body mass).

So is converting fat to LBM beneficial? I don't know. Perhaps the

opposite might be better. But it is a question that it would be nice

to have some tangible evidence about, before drawing any

firm 'conventional-wisdom-type' conclusions.

There is no dispute we need calories. But less of them is better.

We (most of us!) agree that restricting fats in general is

beneficial, especially a few specific types of them. Perhaps the

same applies to protein and amino acids as well?

Or should we be supplementing extra protein? If so what kind?

Casein? Whey? Egg white? Gelatin? Soy? Beef? Fish? The

experimental nutrition scientists have enough work ahead of them to

last quite some time!

Rodney.

>

> Leucine has popped up here in conversation before, the last time

when

> a study was posted that attributed the amino-acid with preventing

> natural muscle loss as we age.

>

> Since that time, I've developed a habit for non-fat or low-fat

cottage

> cheese, which seems to be one of the best sources of leucine with

the

> least calories.

>

> Dave

>

>

> --- In , Ian Goddard <iamgoddard@>

wrote:

> >

> > Leucine is an amino acid, one of the branch-chain

> > amino acids (BCAAs). Supplementation with BCAAs is

> > popular among athletes and there is data indicating

> > their ability to not only increase muscle mass with

> > exercise but preserve it against wasting syndromes.

> > Research also suggests that leucine is the key

> > anti-catabolic BCAA, thus weightlifting (ie, anabolic)

> > supplements are increasingly focusing on leucine.

> >

> > The following study looked to see what effect leucine

> > has on protein synthesis in rats subjected to

> > food-restriction-induced catabolism, essentially CR.

> > The results match those observed in humans with

> > wasting syndrome. Leucine supplementation seems to

> > have preserved muscle mass vs controls. Also of note,

> > there was no difference in the body weights of the two

> > groups, but the controls had more fat. This suggests

> > that leucine causes the body to spend fat and save

> > muscle. Below the following study are some related

> > studies. ~Ian

> >

> >

> > Nutrition. 2006 May;22(5):520-7.

> >

> > Effects of leucine supplementation on the body

> > composition and protein status of rats submitted to

> > food restriction.

> >

> > OBJECTIVE: Acute administration of leucine has been

> > shown to stimulate certain protein synthesis related

> > anabolic processes. However, the effect of chronic

> > leucine administration in a catabolic situation caused

> > by food restriction (FR) has not been established. We

> > therefore evaluated the effect of chronic leucine

> > supplementation on the body composition and some

> > indicators of protein nutritional status of rats

> > submitted to FR. METHODS: Adult male Wistar rats were

> > submitted to 50% FR for 6 weeks. The control group

> > received the AIN-93M diet and the leucine group

> > received the same diet supplemented with 5.91 g

> > L-leucine/kg ration. We then determined carcass

> > chemical composition, serum leptin, albumin and total

> > protein concentrations, and protein, DNA and RNA

> > concentrations in gastrocnemius muscle and liver.

> > RESULTS: No difference in final body weight was

> > observed between groups. However, the leucine group

> > presented a lower amount of body fat (P < 0.05).

> > Leptin concentration showed a directly proportional

> > correlation with the amount of body fat (r = 0.88, P <

> > 0.05), but no significant difference in serum leptin

> > concentration was observed between groups (P = 0.08).

> > Regarding protein nutritional status, liver protein

> > concentration was higher in the leucine group (P <

> > 0.05). In the gastrocnemius muscle, a higher RNA

> > concentration (P < 0.05) and a tendency towards higher

> > DNA concentration (P = 0.06) were observed in the

> > leucine group. CONCLUSION: The results indicate that

> > low-dose leucine supplementation increases body fat

> > loss and improves liver protein status and the

> > capacity of muscle protein synthesis in rats submitted

> > to FR.

> >

> >

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16600817

> >

> > Related studies:

> >

> > * Attenuation of the protein wasting associated with

> > bed rest by branched-chain amino acids.

> >

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10467608

> >

> > * Leucine suppresses acid-induced protein wasting in

> > L6 rat muscle cells.

> >

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11422399

> >

> >

> > IAN: HMB (beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate) is a

> > metabolite of leucine that has itself been shown to

> > increase and preserve muscle mass against severe

> > catabolic states. A few examples of the latter:

> >

> > * " These results suggest that HMB preserves lean body

> > mass and attenuates protein degradation. "

> >

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15665304

> >

> > * " CONCLUSION: These results show that HMB, arginine,

> > and glutamine can be safely used to treat muscle

> > wasting associated with AIDS and cancer. "

> >

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15080599

> >

> > * Nutritional treatment for acquired immunodeficiency

> > virus-associated wasting using beta-hydroxy

> > beta-methylbutyrate, glutamine, and arginine: a

> > randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.

> >

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10850936

> >

> > http://iangoddard.net

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

Of course it is possible that those mice were the ones, within the

group, that had managed to burn the fewest calories, and so had more

than the others available to be stored.

In that case they would likely have had not only the highest body fat

levels, but the highest LBM levels, also. Which thoughts lead to all

kinds of other (probably unresolved) questions.

Rodney.

>

> In addition, a couple of years ago Warren posted here saying the

> 40% restricted mice which lived the longest were those that had

> maintained the highest levels of body ***FAT***. (NOT those that

> had maintained the highest levels of lean body mass).

[Guest guest]

Rodney,

I remember discussing this awhile back.

I am reluctant to restrict protein for 2 reasons: I am a runner and

cyclist and need adequate protein for muscle recovery, and I'm also

afraid losing muscle mass could possibly make me more insulin resistant.

I guess I'll keep eating my cottage cheese until we see the results of

the Partridge fruit fly study.

Dave

> > >

> > > Leucine is an amino acid, one of the branch-chain

> > > amino acids (BCAAs). Supplementation with BCAAs is

> > > popular among athletes and there is data indicating

> > > their ability to not only increase muscle mass with

> > > exercise but preserve it against wasting syndromes.

> > > Research also suggests that leucine is the key

> > > anti-catabolic BCAA, thus weightlifting (ie, anabolic)

> > > supplements are increasingly focusing on leucine.

> > >

> > > The following study looked to see what effect leucine

> > > has on protein synthesis in rats subjected to

> > > food-restriction-induced catabolism, essentially CR.

> > > The results match those observed in humans with

> > > wasting syndrome. Leucine supplementation seems to

> > > have preserved muscle mass vs controls. Also of note,

> > > there was no difference in the body weights of the two

> > > groups, but the controls had more fat. This suggests

> > > that leucine causes the body to spend fat and save

> > > muscle. Below the following study are some related

> > > studies. ~Ian

> > >

> > >

> > > Nutrition. 2006 May;22(5):520-7.

> > >

> > > Effects of leucine supplementation on the body

> > > composition and protein status of rats submitted to

> > > food restriction.

> > >

> > > OBJECTIVE: Acute administration of leucine has been

> > > shown to stimulate certain protein synthesis related

> > > anabolic processes. However, the effect of chronic

> > > leucine administration in a catabolic situation caused

> > > by food restriction (FR) has not been established. We

> > > therefore evaluated the effect of chronic leucine

> > > supplementation on the body composition and some

> > > indicators of protein nutritional status of rats

> > > submitted to FR. METHODS: Adult male Wistar rats were

> > > submitted to 50% FR for 6 weeks. The control group

> > > received the AIN-93M diet and the leucine group

> > > received the same diet supplemented with 5.91 g

> > > L-leucine/kg ration. We then determined carcass

> > > chemical composition, serum leptin, albumin and total

> > > protein concentrations, and protein, DNA and RNA

> > > concentrations in gastrocnemius muscle and liver.

> > > RESULTS: No difference in final body weight was

> > > observed between groups. However, the leucine group

> > > presented a lower amount of body fat (P < 0.05).

> > > Leptin concentration showed a directly proportional

> > > correlation with the amount of body fat (r = 0.88, P <

> > > 0.05), but no significant difference in serum leptin

> > > concentration was observed between groups (P = 0.08).

> > > Regarding protein nutritional status, liver protein

> > > concentration was higher in the leucine group (P <

> > > 0.05). In the gastrocnemius muscle, a higher RNA

> > > concentration (P < 0.05) and a tendency towards higher

> > > DNA concentration (P = 0.06) were observed in the

> > > leucine group. CONCLUSION: The results indicate that

> > > low-dose leucine supplementation increases body fat

> > > loss and improves liver protein status and the

> > > capacity of muscle protein synthesis in rats submitted

> > > to FR.

> > >

> > >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16600817

> > >

> > > Related studies:

> > >

> > > * Attenuation of the protein wasting associated with

> > > bed rest by branched-chain amino acids.

> > >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10467608

> > >

> > > * Leucine suppresses acid-induced protein wasting in

> > > L6 rat muscle cells.

> > >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11422399

> > >

> > >

> > > IAN: HMB (beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate) is a

> > > metabolite of leucine that has itself been shown to

> > > increase and preserve muscle mass against severe

> > > catabolic states. A few examples of the latter:

> > >

> > > * " These results suggest that HMB preserves lean body

> > > mass and attenuates protein degradation. "

> > >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15665304

> > >

> > > * " CONCLUSION: These results show that HMB, arginine,

> > > and glutamine can be safely used to treat muscle

> > > wasting associated with AIDS and cancer. "

> > >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15080599

> > >

> > > * Nutritional treatment for acquired immunodeficiency

> > > virus-associated wasting using beta-hydroxy

> > > beta-methylbutyrate, glutamine, and arginine: a

> > > randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.

> > >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10850936

> > >

> > > http://iangoddard.net

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave:

Just to make sure I am not misunderstood ........... the principal

message of my post was intended to be that I am VERY uncertain what

it is best to do about protein intake. Either in total (high or

low), or whether certain aminos should be emphasized and others

minimized.

I remember one study posted here about a year ago which quite

strongly suggested tryptophan (I believe it was tryptophan) should be

minimized. But upon investigation it was noted that pretty much

everything contains it so there wasn't an easy way to minimize it

apart from reducing overall protein intake.

But I am hoping to be ready to respond to whatever information future

analyses of the protein restriction issue seem to come up with. The

Partridge study being one, that had originally been scheduled to be

published months ago.

I could be either increasing of decreasing my intake in the future,

depending on what we learn. But my protein intake to date has been

on the higher end of the ranges.

Rodney.

> > > >

> > > > Leucine is an amino acid, one of the branch-chain

> > > > amino acids (BCAAs). Supplementation with BCAAs is

> > > > popular among athletes and there is data indicating

> > > > their ability to not only increase muscle mass with

> > > > exercise but preserve it against wasting syndromes.

> > > > Research also suggests that leucine is the key

> > > > anti-catabolic BCAA, thus weightlifting (ie, anabolic)

> > > > supplements are increasingly focusing on leucine.

> > > >

> > > > The following study looked to see what effect leucine

> > > > has on protein synthesis in rats subjected to

> > > > food-restriction-induced catabolism, essentially CR.

> > > > The results match those observed in humans with

> > > > wasting syndrome. Leucine supplementation seems to

> > > > have preserved muscle mass vs controls. Also of note,

> > > > there was no difference in the body weights of the two

> > > > groups, but the controls had more fat. This suggests

> > > > that leucine causes the body to spend fat and save

> > > > muscle. Below the following study are some related

> > > > studies. ~Ian

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Nutrition. 2006 May;22(5):520-7.

> > > >

> > > > Effects of leucine supplementation on the body

> > > > composition and protein status of rats submitted to

> > > > food restriction.

> > > >

> > > > OBJECTIVE: Acute administration of leucine has been

> > > > shown to stimulate certain protein synthesis related

> > > > anabolic processes. However, the effect of chronic

> > > > leucine administration in a catabolic situation caused

> > > > by food restriction (FR) has not been established. We

> > > > therefore evaluated the effect of chronic leucine

> > > > supplementation on the body composition and some

> > > > indicators of protein nutritional status of rats

> > > > submitted to FR. METHODS: Adult male Wistar rats were

> > > > submitted to 50% FR for 6 weeks. The control group

> > > > received the AIN-93M diet and the leucine group

> > > > received the same diet supplemented with 5.91 g

> > > > L-leucine/kg ration. We then determined carcass

> > > > chemical composition, serum leptin, albumin and total

> > > > protein concentrations, and protein, DNA and RNA

> > > > concentrations in gastrocnemius muscle and liver.

> > > > RESULTS: No difference in final body weight was

> > > > observed between groups. However, the leucine group

> > > > presented a lower amount of body fat (P < 0.05).

> > > > Leptin concentration showed a directly proportional

> > > > correlation with the amount of body fat (r = 0.88, P <

> > > > 0.05), but no significant difference in serum leptin

> > > > concentration was observed between groups (P = 0.08).

> > > > Regarding protein nutritional status, liver protein

> > > > concentration was higher in the leucine group (P <

> > > > 0.05). In the gastrocnemius muscle, a higher RNA

> > > > concentration (P < 0.05) and a tendency towards higher

> > > > DNA concentration (P = 0.06) were observed in the

> > > > leucine group. CONCLUSION: The results indicate that

> > > > low-dose leucine supplementation increases body fat

> > > > loss and improves liver protein status and the

> > > > capacity of muscle protein synthesis in rats submitted

> > > > to FR.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=16600817

> > > >

> > > > Related studies:

> > > >

> > > > * Attenuation of the protein wasting associated with

> > > > bed rest by branched-chain amino acids.

> > > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10467608

> > > >

> > > > * Leucine suppresses acid-induced protein wasting in

> > > > L6 rat muscle cells.

> > > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11422399

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > IAN: HMB (beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate) is a

> > > > metabolite of leucine that has itself been shown to

> > > > increase and preserve muscle mass against severe

> > > > catabolic states. A few examples of the latter:

> > > >

> > > > * " These results suggest that HMB preserves lean body

> > > > mass and attenuates protein degradation. "

> > > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15665304

> > > >

> > > > * " CONCLUSION: These results show that HMB, arginine,

> > > > and glutamine can be safely used to treat muscle

> > > > wasting associated with AIDS and cancer. "

> > > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15080599

> > > >

> > > > * Nutritional treatment for acquired immunodeficiency

> > > > virus-associated wasting using beta-hydroxy

> > > > beta-methylbutyrate, glutamine, and arginine: a

> > > > randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.

> > > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10850936

> > > >

> > > > http://iangoddard.net

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

That post was from Tony. It was #13,209. I see it indicated three

amino acids the restriction of which lengthened lifespan even without

the restriction of calories.

I wonder if this might explain what is happening with the chinese

centenarians - who were eating 11% of their calories as protein - in

the study posted recently?

Rodney.

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Dave:

>

> I remember one study posted here about a year ago which quite

> strongly suggested tryptophan (I believe it was tryptophan) should

> be minimized. But upon investigation it was noted that pretty much

> everything contains it so there wasn't an easy way to minimize it

> apart from reducing overall protein intake.