Re: Re: Biomarkers for CANCER - cholesterol equation

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tony,

I consume maybe half that, 35 gms of which, oddly 1/3 from coffee, and half from 1 oz walnuts. But ignoring that, the question has to do with consumption of olive oil versus a high poly like high oleic safflower oil (not sold here anyway).

The drop is less than 12 obviously. Point is, the best I can do is a low fat diet, and use olive for energy if needed. But I seldom use any added oil.

With your assumptions, the equation works nicely, but it falls down for low fat diets, because of zeros in the sat fat column. Never-the-less, I compute, if you will, a figure of merit, today about - 472 which of course cannot be the change in TC. I'm sure mine is going to stay at 156.

The DASH diet allows me 6 oz of lean meat (which I seldom eat). I might eat 3 oz at my main meal. I'd still eat the walnuts for EFA's. If I did the answer would be - 172. Again an unrealistic number at my low level.

My wife (a high TC person) would probably not eat the walnuts the same day she ate meat. On those days, her delta would be +318. So in her case, she should not eat the meat without the walnuts. So she should eat 1/2 oz of walnuts to zero that, maybe an ounce to bring it down (-170).

But that's on days she eats meat. If she added 1 oz of olive oil to her salad -105, so the change is nearly neutral for olive oil. Maybe half the time she uses olive on her salad.

Once in a while, I'll have 2 eggs and 1 oz of bacon (traveling). That provides a whopping 967, and with walnuts, 478. In the past, there was a time I ate 2 eggs every morning at a weight of 235# and the max TC was 220. Add meats to that even higher than 967.

OTOH, both our TC's responded dramatically to less intake. Mine to 156, hers to 270 from 325 (at 185#). Analysis of her data is not easy because she added zocor about the time we started the rice, fruit and ffmilk diet in Mar 2000. But clearly the change in diet AND the zocor dropped hers to about 225 average for 6 years. Her weight dropped 40#.

And that has included periods of sunflower oil, no oils, high veggie, low meats.

If I played dr, I would pat myself on the back and say it was the Zocor. In reality, the dosage has been raised several times, and others added and it remains above 210.

If I had to guess, I'd say the lower intake had more effect than anything long term.

Now she's trying AM stuff as well.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Biomarkers for CANCER> > > JW,> > We have to go where the science leads us. There are HUNDREDS of> references that support the concept that increasing PUFAs lowers> cholesterol. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that cancer can be> avoided by having normal cholesterol. Moreover, moderate consumption> of linoleic acid has not been found to increase cancer (PMID:9665108). > > Although I am generally optimistic, I know that eventually we are all> going to die of something, whether it is CVD, cancer, or by choking on> a vitamin pill.> > Tony>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tony,

I consume maybe half that, 35 gms of which, oddly 1/3 from coffee, and half from 1 oz walnuts. But ignoring that, the question has to do with consumption of olive oil versus a high poly like high oleic safflower oil (not sold here anyway).

The drop is less than 12 obviously. Point is, the best I can do is a low fat diet, and use olive for energy if needed. But I seldom use any added oil.

With your assumptions, the equation works nicely, but it falls down for low fat diets, because of zeros in the sat fat column. Never-the-less, I compute, if you will, a figure of merit, today about - 472 which of course cannot be the change in TC. I'm sure mine is going to stay at 156.

The DASH diet allows me 6 oz of lean meat (which I seldom eat). I might eat 3 oz at my main meal. I'd still eat the walnuts for EFA's. If I did the answer would be - 172. Again an unrealistic number at my low level.

My wife (a high TC person) would probably not eat the walnuts the same day she ate meat. On those days, her delta would be +318. So in her case, she should not eat the meat without the walnuts. So she should eat 1/2 oz of walnuts to zero that, maybe an ounce to bring it down (-170).

But that's on days she eats meat. If she added 1 oz of olive oil to her salad -105, so the change is nearly neutral for olive oil. Maybe half the time she uses olive on her salad.

Once in a while, I'll have 2 eggs and 1 oz of bacon (traveling). That provides a whopping 967, and with walnuts, 478. In the past, there was a time I ate 2 eggs every morning at a weight of 235# and the max TC was 220. Add meats to that even higher than 967.

OTOH, both our TC's responded dramatically to less intake. Mine to 156, hers to 270 from 325 (at 185#). Analysis of her data is not easy because she added zocor about the time we started the rice, fruit and ffmilk diet in Mar 2000. But clearly the change in diet AND the zocor dropped hers to about 225 average for 6 years. Her weight dropped 40#.

And that has included periods of sunflower oil, no oils, high veggie, low meats.

If I played dr, I would pat myself on the back and say it was the Zocor. In reality, the dosage has been raised several times, and others added and it remains above 210.

If I had to guess, I'd say the lower intake had more effect than anything long term.

Now she's trying AM stuff as well.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Biomarkers for CANCER> > > JW,> > We have to go where the science leads us. There are HUNDREDS of> references that support the concept that increasing PUFAs lowers> cholesterol. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that cancer can be> avoided by having normal cholesterol. Moreover, moderate consumption> of linoleic acid has not been found to increase cancer (PMID:9665108). > > Although I am generally optimistic, I know that eventually we are all> going to die of something, whether it is CVD, cancer, or by choking on> a vitamin pill.> > Tony>