Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hopefully, Tony will now bury his PUFAs lower cholesterol BS. In 1975, the director of the American Society said he thought we would never find a cure for cancer. Good man to have in charge I thought (TIC). http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/9/9/869 Cancer and Mediterranean Dietary Traditions Antonia Trichopoulou Although estimates can only be crude, it can be calculated that up to 25% of the incidence of colorectal cancer, 15% of the incidence of breast cancer, and 10% of the incidence of prostate, pancreas, and endometrial cancer could be prevented if the populations of highly developed Western countries could shift to the traditional healthy Mediterranean diet. More BS, anything as complicated as cancer cannot be fixed, or cured or slowed with a mere diet. There are thousands of food chemicals purporting to effect cancer in Dukes. We can't continue to blame everything on our diet, when we have things like vitamin d added to foods. There's a dr in Europe who claims to cure PCa with flax oil and cottage cheese. (Yeah, right) It seems the surest way to cure cancer is cut it out, assuming you find it early enough. But I notice recent influence that prevention is not "cost effective". In a building I worked in at NASA, another engr and I noticed how many of our guys died of cancer, and mulled that for several years. I left that building. The ACS said it was not an unusual rate. In < 100 people 2 died from brain cancer alone. In Houston there are many facilities devoted to cancer, supported by the estates of millionaires who left their fortunes to find a cure. OTO of 100. The number of birth defects is unbelievably high also. So I think partly the organic lead used in car fuels for may years has a large impact. The etiology appears to start with an inflammation, then neoplasia, then carcinoma. So I take an NSAID and limit LA and ALA. It seems reasonable that radiation from atomic tests play a role. So I drink distilled water. Three seems to be a relationship to farming and PCa so I limit contact with pesticides and fertilizers. Also a mask when performing dusty tasks. It is not an old man's disease. Children of all ages get some form of cancer - don't know what. So it can't be lack of a medit diet. Just sorting out the 760,000 articles on etiology is a nightmare. Of 267,000 cases in females yr2000, half were in the 60-70 age group. 80,000 over 80. In 1863 Virchow proposed that cancer develops at sites of chronic inflammation and the potential relationships between cancer and inflammation have been studied since then.[29] The precise mechanisms that link inflammation and cancer development have not been established.[30] Chronic inflammatory reactions may result in the production of cytokines, which stimulate the growth of transformed cells. Regards. [ ] Biomarkers for CANCER Hi folks:We frequently talk about, and compare data for, biomarkers for CVD. Assuming, probably correctly, that they give a pretty reasonable indication of the likelihood we will get the disease. But we never seem to talk about biomarkers for cancer, apart perhaps for CRON.The following paper covers this issue in what seems to be a very new area of research."It is estimated that the cancer proteome may include over 1.5 million proteins as a result of posttranslational processing and modifications. Such complexity clearly highlights the need for ultra-high resolution proteomic technology for robust quantitative protein measurements and data acquisition. This review is to update the current research efforts in high-resolution proteomic technology for discovery and monitoring cancer biomarkers."June 2006. PMID: 16625706.The abstract:"Proteomic technology for biomarker profiling in cancer: an update.Alaoui-Jamali MA, Xu YJ.Lady Institute for Medical Research and Segal Comprehensive Cancer Center of the Sir Mortimer B. Jewish General Hospital, Department of Oncology and Medicine, McGill University, Montreal, Que. H3T 1E2, Canada; moulay.alaoui-jamali@....The progress in the understanding of cancer progression and early detection has been slow and frustrating due to the complex multifactorial nature and heterogeneity of the cancer syndrome. To date, no effective treatment is available for advanced cancers, which remain a major cause of morbidity and mortality. Clearly, there is urgent need to unravel novel biomarkers for early detection. Most of the functional information of the cancer-associated genes resides in the proteome. The later is an exceptionally complex biological system involving several proteins that function through posttranslational modifications and dynamic intermolecular collisions with partners. These protein complexes can be regulated by signals emanating from cancer cells, their surrounding tissue microenvironment, and/or from the host. Some proteins are secreted and/or cleaved into the extracellular milieu and may represent valuable serum biomarkers for diagnosis purpose. It is estimated that the cancer proteome may include over 1.5 million proteins as a result of posttranslational processing and modifications. Such complexity clearly highlights the need for ultra-high resolution proteomic technology for robust quantitative protein measurements and data acquisition. This review is to update the current research efforts in high-resolution proteomic technology for discovery and monitoring cancer biomarkers."Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hopefully, Tony will now bury his PUFAs lower cholesterol BS. In 1975, the director of the American Society said he thought we would never find a cure for cancer. Good man to have in charge I thought (TIC). http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/9/9/869 Cancer and Mediterranean Dietary Traditions Antonia Trichopoulou Although estimates can only be crude, it can be calculated that up to 25% of the incidence of colorectal cancer, 15% of the incidence of breast cancer, and 10% of the incidence of prostate, pancreas, and endometrial cancer could be prevented if the populations of highly developed Western countries could shift to the traditional healthy Mediterranean diet. More BS, anything as complicated as cancer cannot be fixed, or cured or slowed with a mere diet. There are thousands of food chemicals purporting to effect cancer in Dukes. We can't continue to blame everything on our diet, when we have things like vitamin d added to foods. There's a dr in Europe who claims to cure PCa with flax oil and cottage cheese. (Yeah, right) It seems the surest way to cure cancer is cut it out, assuming you find it early enough. But I notice recent influence that prevention is not "cost effective". In a building I worked in at NASA, another engr and I noticed how many of our guys died of cancer, and mulled that for several years. I left that building. The ACS said it was not an unusual rate. In < 100 people 2 died from brain cancer alone. In Houston there are many facilities devoted to cancer, supported by the estates of millionaires who left their fortunes to find a cure. OTO of 100. The number of birth defects is unbelievably high also. So I think partly the organic lead used in car fuels for may years has a large impact. The etiology appears to start with an inflammation, then neoplasia, then carcinoma. So I take an NSAID and limit LA and ALA. It seems reasonable that radiation from atomic tests play a role. So I drink distilled water. Three seems to be a relationship to farming and PCa so I limit contact with pesticides and fertilizers. Also a mask when performing dusty tasks. It is not an old man's disease. Children of all ages get some form of cancer - don't know what. So it can't be lack of a medit diet. Just sorting out the 760,000 articles on etiology is a nightmare. Of 267,000 cases in females yr2000, half were in the 60-70 age group. 80,000 over 80. In 1863 Virchow proposed that cancer develops at sites of chronic inflammation and the potential relationships between cancer and inflammation have been studied since then.[29] The precise mechanisms that link inflammation and cancer development have not been established.[30] Chronic inflammatory reactions may result in the production of cytokines, which stimulate the growth of transformed cells. Regards. [ ] Biomarkers for CANCER Hi folks:We frequently talk about, and compare data for, biomarkers for CVD. Assuming, probably correctly, that they give a pretty reasonable indication of the likelihood we will get the disease. But we never seem to talk about biomarkers for cancer, apart perhaps for CRON.The following paper covers this issue in what seems to be a very new area of research."It is estimated that the cancer proteome may include over 1.5 million proteins as a result of posttranslational processing and modifications. Such complexity clearly highlights the need for ultra-high resolution proteomic technology for robust quantitative protein measurements and data acquisition. This review is to update the current research efforts in high-resolution proteomic technology for discovery and monitoring cancer biomarkers."June 2006. PMID: 16625706.The abstract:"Proteomic technology for biomarker profiling in cancer: an update.Alaoui-Jamali MA, Xu YJ.Lady Institute for Medical Research and Segal Comprehensive Cancer Center of the Sir Mortimer B. Jewish General Hospital, Department of Oncology and Medicine, McGill University, Montreal, Que. H3T 1E2, Canada; moulay.alaoui-jamali@....The progress in the understanding of cancer progression and early detection has been slow and frustrating due to the complex multifactorial nature and heterogeneity of the cancer syndrome. To date, no effective treatment is available for advanced cancers, which remain a major cause of morbidity and mortality. Clearly, there is urgent need to unravel novel biomarkers for early detection. Most of the functional information of the cancer-associated genes resides in the proteome. The later is an exceptionally complex biological system involving several proteins that function through posttranslational modifications and dynamic intermolecular collisions with partners. These protein complexes can be regulated by signals emanating from cancer cells, their surrounding tissue microenvironment, and/or from the host. Some proteins are secreted and/or cleaved into the extracellular milieu and may represent valuable serum biomarkers for diagnosis purpose. It is estimated that the cancer proteome may include over 1.5 million proteins as a result of posttranslational processing and modifications. Such complexity clearly highlights the need for ultra-high resolution proteomic technology for robust quantitative protein measurements and data acquisition. This review is to update the current research efforts in high-resolution proteomic technology for discovery and monitoring cancer biomarkers."Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 My apologies to Tony. Of course, it is not his hypothesis. Cancer is a touchy subject. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 My apologies to Tony. Of course, it is not his hypothesis. Cancer is a touchy subject. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 jwwright wrote: > > Just sorting out the 760,000 articles on etiology is a nightmare. > Of 267,000 cases in females yr2000, half were in the 60-70 age group. > 80,000 over 80. > > In 1863 Virchow proposed that /*cancer* develops at sites of chronic > inflammation/ and the potential relationships between *cancer* and > inflammation have been studied since then.^[29 > <http://home.mdconsult.com/das/book/body/470324130/1249/75.html#R007029>] > The precise mechanisms that link inflammation and *cancer* development > have not been established.^[30 > <http://home.mdconsult.com/das/book/body/470324130/1249/75.html#R007030>] > Chronic inflammatory reactions may result in the production of > cytokines, which stimulate the growth of transformed cells. > > Regards. > > > The inflammation connection sounds plausible as inflammation is usually a response to injury and stimulating growth is useful for injury repair. Cancer is growth run amok so it's not too much of a stretch that something that promotes growth could promote cancer. That alone does not make it a " cause " of cancer, unless you also hypothesize that we all carry seeds of cancer, or are routinely exposed to carcinogens that a normal inflammation bias (less growth stimulated) system can manage. While far from proved it does seem prudent to err on the lower inflammation end of the spectrum. I gladly trade slightly slower healing or whatever for improved rejection of potential cancers or slower promotion of existing cancers. As usual moderation might be advised. Driving inflammation levels too low is probably ill advised. It might be interesting to see if inflammation markers (CRP?) correlate with a higher incidence of cancer in populations. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 jwwright wrote: > > Just sorting out the 760,000 articles on etiology is a nightmare. > Of 267,000 cases in females yr2000, half were in the 60-70 age group. > 80,000 over 80. > > In 1863 Virchow proposed that /*cancer* develops at sites of chronic > inflammation/ and the potential relationships between *cancer* and > inflammation have been studied since then.^[29 > <http://home.mdconsult.com/das/book/body/470324130/1249/75.html#R007029>] > The precise mechanisms that link inflammation and *cancer* development > have not been established.^[30 > <http://home.mdconsult.com/das/book/body/470324130/1249/75.html#R007030>] > Chronic inflammatory reactions may result in the production of > cytokines, which stimulate the growth of transformed cells. > > Regards. > > > The inflammation connection sounds plausible as inflammation is usually a response to injury and stimulating growth is useful for injury repair. Cancer is growth run amok so it's not too much of a stretch that something that promotes growth could promote cancer. That alone does not make it a " cause " of cancer, unless you also hypothesize that we all carry seeds of cancer, or are routinely exposed to carcinogens that a normal inflammation bias (less growth stimulated) system can manage. While far from proved it does seem prudent to err on the lower inflammation end of the spectrum. I gladly trade slightly slower healing or whatever for improved rejection of potential cancers or slower promotion of existing cancers. As usual moderation might be advised. Driving inflammation levels too low is probably ill advised. It might be interesting to see if inflammation markers (CRP?) correlate with a higher incidence of cancer in populations. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 >--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@...> >wrote: > > Hopefully, Tony will now bury his PUFAs lower cholesterol BS. > JW, We have to go where the science leads us. There are HUNDREDS of references that support the concept that increasing PUFAs lowers cholesterol. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that cancer can be avoided by having normal cholesterol. Moreover, moderate consumption of linoleic acid has not been found to increase cancer (PMID: 9665108). Although I am generally optimistic, I know that eventually we are all going to die of something, whether it is CVD, cancer, or by choking on a vitamin pill. Tony > In 1975, the director of the American Society said he thought we would never find a cure for cancer. Good man to have in charge I thought (TIC). > > http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/9/9/869 > Cancer and Mediterranean Dietary Traditions > Antonia Trichopoulou > Although estimates can only be crude, it can be calculated that up to 25% of the incidence of > colorectal cancer, 15% of the incidence of breast cancer, and 10% of the incidence of > prostate, pancreas, and endometrial cancer could be prevented if the populations of highly > developed Western countries could shift to the traditional healthy Mediterranean diet. > > More BS, anything as complicated as cancer cannot be fixed, or cured or slowed with a mere diet. There are thousands of food chemicals purporting to effect cancer in Dukes. > We can't continue to blame everything on our diet, when we have things like vitamin d added to foods. > > There's a dr in Europe who claims to cure PCa with flax oil and cottage cheese. (Yeah, right) > > It seems the surest way to cure cancer is cut it out, assuming you find it early enough. But I notice recent influence that prevention is not " cost effective " . > > In a building I worked in at NASA, another engr and I noticed how many of our guys died of cancer, and mulled that for several years. I left that building. The ACS said it was not an unusual rate. In < 100 people 2 died from brain cancer alone. > > In Houston there are many facilities devoted to cancer, supported by the estates of millionaires who left their fortunes to find a cure. OTO of 100. The number of birth defects is unbelievably high also. So I think partly the organic lead used in car fuels for may years has a large impact. > > The etiology appears to start with an inflammation, then neoplasia, then carcinoma. So I take an NSAID and limit LA and ALA. > > It seems reasonable that radiation from atomic tests play a role. > So I drink distilled water. > > Three seems to be a relationship to farming and PCa so I limit contact with pesticides and fertilizers. Also a mask when performing dusty tasks. > > It is not an old man's disease. Children of all ages get some form of cancer - don't know what. So it can't be lack of a medit diet. > > Just sorting out the 760,000 articles on etiology is a nightmare. > Of 267,000 cases in females yr2000, half were in the 60-70 age group. 80,000 over 80. > > In 1863 Virchow proposed that cancer develops at sites of chronic inflammation and the potential relationships between cancer and inflammation have been studied since then.[29] > The precise mechanisms that link inflammation and cancer development have not been established.[30] Chronic inflammatory reactions may result in the production of cytokines, which stimulate the growth of transformed cells. > > Regards. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 >--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@...> >wrote: > > Hopefully, Tony will now bury his PUFAs lower cholesterol BS. > JW, We have to go where the science leads us. There are HUNDREDS of references that support the concept that increasing PUFAs lowers cholesterol. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that cancer can be avoided by having normal cholesterol. Moreover, moderate consumption of linoleic acid has not been found to increase cancer (PMID: 9665108). Although I am generally optimistic, I know that eventually we are all going to die of something, whether it is CVD, cancer, or by choking on a vitamin pill. Tony > In 1975, the director of the American Society said he thought we would never find a cure for cancer. Good man to have in charge I thought (TIC). > > http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/9/9/869 > Cancer and Mediterranean Dietary Traditions > Antonia Trichopoulou > Although estimates can only be crude, it can be calculated that up to 25% of the incidence of > colorectal cancer, 15% of the incidence of breast cancer, and 10% of the incidence of > prostate, pancreas, and endometrial cancer could be prevented if the populations of highly > developed Western countries could shift to the traditional healthy Mediterranean diet. > > More BS, anything as complicated as cancer cannot be fixed, or cured or slowed with a mere diet. There are thousands of food chemicals purporting to effect cancer in Dukes. > We can't continue to blame everything on our diet, when we have things like vitamin d added to foods. > > There's a dr in Europe who claims to cure PCa with flax oil and cottage cheese. (Yeah, right) > > It seems the surest way to cure cancer is cut it out, assuming you find it early enough. But I notice recent influence that prevention is not " cost effective " . > > In a building I worked in at NASA, another engr and I noticed how many of our guys died of cancer, and mulled that for several years. I left that building. The ACS said it was not an unusual rate. In < 100 people 2 died from brain cancer alone. > > In Houston there are many facilities devoted to cancer, supported by the estates of millionaires who left their fortunes to find a cure. OTO of 100. The number of birth defects is unbelievably high also. So I think partly the organic lead used in car fuels for may years has a large impact. > > The etiology appears to start with an inflammation, then neoplasia, then carcinoma. So I take an NSAID and limit LA and ALA. > > It seems reasonable that radiation from atomic tests play a role. > So I drink distilled water. > > Three seems to be a relationship to farming and PCa so I limit contact with pesticides and fertilizers. Also a mask when performing dusty tasks. > > It is not an old man's disease. Children of all ages get some form of cancer - don't know what. So it can't be lack of a medit diet. > > Just sorting out the 760,000 articles on etiology is a nightmare. > Of 267,000 cases in females yr2000, half were in the 60-70 age group. 80,000 over 80. > > In 1863 Virchow proposed that cancer develops at sites of chronic inflammation and the potential relationships between cancer and inflammation have been studied since then.[29] > The precise mechanisms that link inflammation and cancer development have not been established.[30] Chronic inflammatory reactions may result in the production of cytokines, which stimulate the growth of transformed cells. > > Regards. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hi JR: I don't know about CRP, but WBC is related to cancer. And in the study below there was about fourteen years of follow up, suggesting the link is probably not a function of the body's attempt, using WBCs, to fend off already initiated cancer: " WBC Count and the Risk of Cancer Mortality in a National Sample of U.S. Adults: Results from the Second National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey Mortality Study. " June 2004. PMID: 15184263. Cancer Epid Biom Prev Vol. 13, 1052-1056. Rodney. > .............................. Driving inflammation levels too > low is probably ill advised. It might be interesting to see if > inflammation markers (CRP?) correlate with a higher incidence of > cancer in populations. > > JR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hi JR: I don't know about CRP, but WBC is related to cancer. And in the study below there was about fourteen years of follow up, suggesting the link is probably not a function of the body's attempt, using WBCs, to fend off already initiated cancer: " WBC Count and the Risk of Cancer Mortality in a National Sample of U.S. Adults: Results from the Second National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey Mortality Study. " June 2004. PMID: 15184263. Cancer Epid Biom Prev Vol. 13, 1052-1056. Rodney. > .............................. Driving inflammation levels too > low is probably ill advised. It might be interesting to see if > inflammation markers (CRP?) correlate with a higher incidence of > cancer in populations. > > JR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hi JR: What is more, this is interesting, especially the bit about: " The presence of a systemic inflammatory response (as evidenced by elevated C-reactive protein concentrations) has been shown to be associated with loss of lean body mass and poor survival in cancer patients " . So even if you HAVE cancer, an inflammatory response to it (at least as indicated by CRP) seems to be inappropriate. Here is the abstract: " Score based on hypoalbuminemia and elevated C-reactive protein predicts survival in patients with advanced gastrointestinal cancer. Elahi MM, McMillan DC, McArdle CS, Angerson WJ, Sattar N. University Department of Surgery, Royal Infirmary, Glasgow G31 2ER, UK. The presence of a systemic inflammatory response (as evidenced by elevated C-reactive protein concentrations) has been shown to be associated with loss of lean body mass and poor survival in cancer patients. The aim of this study is to assess the value of the combination of hypoalbuminemia and an elevated circulating concentration of C-reactive protein as a prognostic score in patients with advanced gastrointestinal cancer. Patients with advanced colorectal (n = 99) and gastric (n = 66) cancer and who had measurements of albumin and C-reactive protein were identified. Hypoalbuminemia (< 35 g/l/ > or = 35 g/l) and an elevated C-reactive protein (< or = 10 mg/l/ > 10 mg/l) were combined to form a prognostic score (0, 1, and 2). In patients with colorectal cancer, median survival was 12.1, 6.1, and 1.7 m (P < 0.001) for scores of 0, 1, and 2, respectively. In patients with gastric cancer the corresponding median survival was 6.1, 3.1, and 1.6 m, respectively (P < 0.01). The results of the present study suggest that, in patients with advanced gastrointestinal cancer, a cumulative score based on hypoalbuminemia and an elevated C-reactive protein may be useful. It has the advantage that it is based on routinely available well-standardized measurements and is simple to use. " PMID: 15231451 Rodney. --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@...> wrote: > > Hi JR: > > I don't know about CRP, but WBC is related to cancer. And in the > study below there was about fourteen years of follow up, suggesting > the link is probably not a function of the body's attempt, using WBCs, > to fend off already initiated cancer: > > " WBC Count and the Risk of Cancer Mortality in a National Sample of > U.S. Adults: Results from the Second National Health and Nutrition > Examination Survey Mortality Study. " > > June 2004. PMID: 15184263. Cancer Epid Biom Prev Vol. 13, 1052-1056. > > Rodney. > > > .............................. Driving inflammation levels too > > low is probably ill advised. It might be interesting to see if > > inflammation markers (CRP?) correlate with a higher incidence of > > cancer in populations. > > > > JR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hi JR: What is more, this is interesting, especially the bit about: " The presence of a systemic inflammatory response (as evidenced by elevated C-reactive protein concentrations) has been shown to be associated with loss of lean body mass and poor survival in cancer patients " . So even if you HAVE cancer, an inflammatory response to it (at least as indicated by CRP) seems to be inappropriate. Here is the abstract: " Score based on hypoalbuminemia and elevated C-reactive protein predicts survival in patients with advanced gastrointestinal cancer. Elahi MM, McMillan DC, McArdle CS, Angerson WJ, Sattar N. University Department of Surgery, Royal Infirmary, Glasgow G31 2ER, UK. The presence of a systemic inflammatory response (as evidenced by elevated C-reactive protein concentrations) has been shown to be associated with loss of lean body mass and poor survival in cancer patients. The aim of this study is to assess the value of the combination of hypoalbuminemia and an elevated circulating concentration of C-reactive protein as a prognostic score in patients with advanced gastrointestinal cancer. Patients with advanced colorectal (n = 99) and gastric (n = 66) cancer and who had measurements of albumin and C-reactive protein were identified. Hypoalbuminemia (< 35 g/l/ > or = 35 g/l) and an elevated C-reactive protein (< or = 10 mg/l/ > 10 mg/l) were combined to form a prognostic score (0, 1, and 2). In patients with colorectal cancer, median survival was 12.1, 6.1, and 1.7 m (P < 0.001) for scores of 0, 1, and 2, respectively. In patients with gastric cancer the corresponding median survival was 6.1, 3.1, and 1.6 m, respectively (P < 0.01). The results of the present study suggest that, in patients with advanced gastrointestinal cancer, a cumulative score based on hypoalbuminemia and an elevated C-reactive protein may be useful. It has the advantage that it is based on routinely available well-standardized measurements and is simple to use. " PMID: 15231451 Rodney. --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@...> wrote: > > Hi JR: > > I don't know about CRP, but WBC is related to cancer. And in the > study below there was about fourteen years of follow up, suggesting > the link is probably not a function of the body's attempt, using WBCs, > to fend off already initiated cancer: > > " WBC Count and the Risk of Cancer Mortality in a National Sample of > U.S. Adults: Results from the Second National Health and Nutrition > Examination Survey Mortality Study. " > > June 2004. PMID: 15184263. Cancer Epid Biom Prev Vol. 13, 1052-1056. > > Rodney. > > > .............................. Driving inflammation levels too > > low is probably ill advised. It might be interesting to see if > > inflammation markers (CRP?) correlate with a higher incidence of > > cancer in populations. > > > > JR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 > > Let's say the only fat I'm using is 1 oz olive oil only daily, and I change that to 1 oz of safflower oil daily. > How much does that lower my cholesterol after stabilizing? > If my cholesterol is 250, how much safflower oil would I eat to get it to 200? > How much at 150 TC? > > Regards. JW, One ounce is actually quite a lot of oil. Let's talk about tablespoons (14g portions with about 120 calories). This is the Mensink and Katan equation[1]: DeltaTC =1.2(1.8 DeltaS -0.1 DeltaM -0.5 DeltaP) Where the DeltaTC is the change in serum cholesterol values in mg/dL, DeltaS is change in percentage of energy from lauric, myristic, and palmitic fatty acids, DeltaM is change in energy from monounsaturated fatty acids, and DeltaP is change in energy from polyunsaturated fatty acids. From the coefficients, you can see that you must consume approximately 4 times the amount of polyunsaturated fats than saturated fats for the cholesterol to stay constant. Let us say that you consume 70 grams of fat per day. One tablespoon of oil is 20% of the total fat energy. With everything else being constant, one tablespoon of polyunsaturated oil like grape seed oil will lower your cholesterol by 1.2x-0.5x20 = -12 mg/dL. Reducing the amount of saturated fat while increasing polyunsaturated fat will show greater changes. Your question was about safflower oil. Be careful. Most safflower oil today is the high oleic variety which is very low in polyunsaturated fat. Check the label to make sure that the grams of polyunsaturated fat are at least three times the number of grams of monounsaturated fat per serving. Tony [1] http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/12/8/911 [2]Dietary fats: Know which types to choose http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fat/NU00262 > > > [ ] Re: Biomarkers for CANCER > > > JW, > > We have to go where the science leads us. There are HUNDREDS of > references that support the concept that increasing PUFAs lowers > cholesterol. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that cancer can be > avoided by having normal cholesterol. Moreover, moderate consumption > of linoleic acid has not been found to increase cancer (PMID: 9665108). > > Although I am generally optimistic, I know that eventually we are all > going to die of something, whether it is CVD, cancer, or by choking on > a vitamin pill. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 > > Let's say the only fat I'm using is 1 oz olive oil only daily, and I change that to 1 oz of safflower oil daily. > How much does that lower my cholesterol after stabilizing? > If my cholesterol is 250, how much safflower oil would I eat to get it to 200? > How much at 150 TC? > > Regards. JW, One ounce is actually quite a lot of oil. Let's talk about tablespoons (14g portions with about 120 calories). This is the Mensink and Katan equation[1]: DeltaTC =1.2(1.8 DeltaS -0.1 DeltaM -0.5 DeltaP) Where the DeltaTC is the change in serum cholesterol values in mg/dL, DeltaS is change in percentage of energy from lauric, myristic, and palmitic fatty acids, DeltaM is change in energy from monounsaturated fatty acids, and DeltaP is change in energy from polyunsaturated fatty acids. From the coefficients, you can see that you must consume approximately 4 times the amount of polyunsaturated fats than saturated fats for the cholesterol to stay constant. Let us say that you consume 70 grams of fat per day. One tablespoon of oil is 20% of the total fat energy. With everything else being constant, one tablespoon of polyunsaturated oil like grape seed oil will lower your cholesterol by 1.2x-0.5x20 = -12 mg/dL. Reducing the amount of saturated fat while increasing polyunsaturated fat will show greater changes. Your question was about safflower oil. Be careful. Most safflower oil today is the high oleic variety which is very low in polyunsaturated fat. Check the label to make sure that the grams of polyunsaturated fat are at least three times the number of grams of monounsaturated fat per serving. Tony [1] http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/12/8/911 [2]Dietary fats: Know which types to choose http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fat/NU00262 > > > [ ] Re: Biomarkers for CANCER > > > JW, > > We have to go where the science leads us. There are HUNDREDS of > references that support the concept that increasing PUFAs lowers > cholesterol. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that cancer can be > avoided by having normal cholesterol. Moreover, moderate consumption > of linoleic acid has not been found to increase cancer (PMID: 9665108). > > Although I am generally optimistic, I know that eventually we are all > going to die of something, whether it is CVD, cancer, or by choking on > a vitamin pill. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hi folks: JFI: My safflower oil, on the back of the container, says: Per 10 ml, Calories 80; saturates 1g; polyunsaturates 7g (of which omega-6 = 7g, omega-3 = 0g); monounsaturates 1g. " Product of USA " These numbers are all rounded, of course. Rodney. > > > > Let's say the only fat I'm using is 1 oz olive oil only daily, and I > change that to 1 oz of safflower oil daily. > > How much does that lower my cholesterol after stabilizing? > > If my cholesterol is 250, how much safflower oil would I eat to get > it to 200? > > How much at 150 TC? > > > > Regards. > > JW, > > One ounce is actually quite a lot of oil. Let's talk about > tablespoons (14g portions with about 120 calories). This is the > Mensink and Katan equation[1]: > > DeltaTC =1.2(1.8 DeltaS -0.1 DeltaM -0.5 DeltaP) > > Where the DeltaTC is the change in serum cholesterol values in mg/dL, > DeltaS is change in percentage of energy from lauric, myristic, and > palmitic fatty acids, DeltaM is change in energy from monounsaturated > fatty acids, and DeltaP is change in energy from polyunsaturated fatty > acids. > > From the coefficients, you can see that you must consume approximately > 4 times the amount of polyunsaturated fats than saturated fats for the > cholesterol to stay constant. Let us say that you consume 70 grams of > fat per day. One tablespoon of oil is 20% of the total fat energy. > With everything else being constant, one tablespoon of polyunsaturated > oil like grape seed oil will lower your cholesterol by 1.2x-0.5x20 = > -12 mg/dL. Reducing the amount of saturated fat while increasing > polyunsaturated fat will show greater changes. > > Your question was about safflower oil. Be careful. Most safflower > oil today is the high oleic variety which is very low in > polyunsaturated fat. Check the label to make sure that the grams of > polyunsaturated fat are at least three times the number of grams of > monounsaturated fat per serving. > > Tony > > [1] http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/12/8/911 > [2]Dietary fats: Know which types to choose > http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fat/NU00262 > > > > > > > [ ] Re: Biomarkers for CANCER > > > > > > JW, > > > > We have to go where the science leads us. There are HUNDREDS of > > references that support the concept that increasing PUFAs lowers > > cholesterol. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that cancer can be > > avoided by having normal cholesterol. Moreover, moderate consumption > > of linoleic acid has not been found to increase cancer (PMID: > 9665108). > > > > Although I am generally optimistic, I know that eventually we are all > > going to die of something, whether it is CVD, cancer, or by choking on > > a vitamin pill. > > > > Tony > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hi folks: JFI: My safflower oil, on the back of the container, says: Per 10 ml, Calories 80; saturates 1g; polyunsaturates 7g (of which omega-6 = 7g, omega-3 = 0g); monounsaturates 1g. " Product of USA " These numbers are all rounded, of course. Rodney. > > > > Let's say the only fat I'm using is 1 oz olive oil only daily, and I > change that to 1 oz of safflower oil daily. > > How much does that lower my cholesterol after stabilizing? > > If my cholesterol is 250, how much safflower oil would I eat to get > it to 200? > > How much at 150 TC? > > > > Regards. > > JW, > > One ounce is actually quite a lot of oil. Let's talk about > tablespoons (14g portions with about 120 calories). This is the > Mensink and Katan equation[1]: > > DeltaTC =1.2(1.8 DeltaS -0.1 DeltaM -0.5 DeltaP) > > Where the DeltaTC is the change in serum cholesterol values in mg/dL, > DeltaS is change in percentage of energy from lauric, myristic, and > palmitic fatty acids, DeltaM is change in energy from monounsaturated > fatty acids, and DeltaP is change in energy from polyunsaturated fatty > acids. > > From the coefficients, you can see that you must consume approximately > 4 times the amount of polyunsaturated fats than saturated fats for the > cholesterol to stay constant. Let us say that you consume 70 grams of > fat per day. One tablespoon of oil is 20% of the total fat energy. > With everything else being constant, one tablespoon of polyunsaturated > oil like grape seed oil will lower your cholesterol by 1.2x-0.5x20 = > -12 mg/dL. Reducing the amount of saturated fat while increasing > polyunsaturated fat will show greater changes. > > Your question was about safflower oil. Be careful. Most safflower > oil today is the high oleic variety which is very low in > polyunsaturated fat. Check the label to make sure that the grams of > polyunsaturated fat are at least three times the number of grams of > monounsaturated fat per serving. > > Tony > > [1] http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/12/8/911 > [2]Dietary fats: Know which types to choose > http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fat/NU00262 > > > > > > > [ ] Re: Biomarkers for CANCER > > > > > > JW, > > > > We have to go where the science leads us. There are HUNDREDS of > > references that support the concept that increasing PUFAs lowers > > cholesterol. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that cancer can be > > avoided by having normal cholesterol. Moreover, moderate consumption > > of linoleic acid has not been found to increase cancer (PMID: > 9665108). > > > > Although I am generally optimistic, I know that eventually we are all > > going to die of something, whether it is CVD, cancer, or by choking on > > a vitamin pill. > > > > Tony > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 My safflower oil, which starts out a pale yellowy-green, goes colorless as it oxidizes. This was a surprise to me as I had expected it to turn brownish. But it doesn't. I can say this with authority because I have kept a small sample fully exposed to air and full sunlight (three layers of glass between sun and oil) for many months and it looks virtually like water now. Rodney. --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@...> wrote: > > The only high polys in my store now is sunflower, and I've noticed it doesn't spoil. I doubt it has a lot of polys. > > Regards. > > [ ] Re: Biomarkers for CANCER > > > Hi folks: > > JFI: > > My safflower oil, on the back of the container, says: > > Per 10 ml, Calories 80; saturates 1g; polyunsaturates 7g (of which > omega-6 = 7g, omega-3 = 0g); monounsaturates 1g. > > " Product of USA " > > These numbers are all rounded, of course. > > Rodney. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 My safflower oil, which starts out a pale yellowy-green, goes colorless as it oxidizes. This was a surprise to me as I had expected it to turn brownish. But it doesn't. I can say this with authority because I have kept a small sample fully exposed to air and full sunlight (three layers of glass between sun and oil) for many months and it looks virtually like water now. Rodney. --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@...> wrote: > > The only high polys in my store now is sunflower, and I've noticed it doesn't spoil. I doubt it has a lot of polys. > > Regards. > > [ ] Re: Biomarkers for CANCER > > > Hi folks: > > JFI: > > My safflower oil, on the back of the container, says: > > Per 10 ml, Calories 80; saturates 1g; polyunsaturates 7g (of which > omega-6 = 7g, omega-3 = 0g); monounsaturates 1g. > > " Product of USA " > > These numbers are all rounded, of course. > > Rodney. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Hi : So are you suggesting we take no notice at all of nutrition labels? Or, do you have a way to determine what the nutrition content is, other than reading the label? Or, do you have another, better, solution? I doubt anyone would be startled to find that any producer in a backward country, such as Vietnam, lacks accurate knowledge/resources to ensure adequate labelling. Are you saying you believe the same is true in the US? Obviously, knowing what is in the stuff we eat is important. So how are you suggesting we do that? Rodney. > >Hi folks: > > > >JFI: > > > >My safflower oil, on the back of the container, says: > > > >Per 10 ml, Calories 80; saturates 1g; polyunsaturates 7g (of which > >omega-6 = 7g, omega-3 = 0g); monounsaturates 1g. > > > > " Product of USA " > > > >These numbers are all rounded, of course. > > How well controlled are nutritional labels? > > I remember going to an asian foods store in the town where I grew > up and finding a sesame cake from Vietnam that had absolutely crazy > nutritional numbers: 53g of protein and if you tried to match the calories > to the amount of fat, protein and carbs, it was off by more than a factor > of three. > > My guess was that the importers were baffled by the need to supply > nutritional figures, and then got the brilliant idea that they could just > make something up. > > The agriculture/food industry says that it can't label GM foods > because they don't have enough control over their products. There have > been big advances in engineering lipid metabolism: pigs that produce > omega-3 fats, plans to commercialize a cocoa butter substitute based on GM > canola... If a food company doesn't have good control of it's > sources, you might find your safflower oil has something close to motor > oil in it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Hi : So are you suggesting we take no notice at all of nutrition labels? Or, do you have a way to determine what the nutrition content is, other than reading the label? Or, do you have another, better, solution? I doubt anyone would be startled to find that any producer in a backward country, such as Vietnam, lacks accurate knowledge/resources to ensure adequate labelling. Are you saying you believe the same is true in the US? Obviously, knowing what is in the stuff we eat is important. So how are you suggesting we do that? Rodney. > >Hi folks: > > > >JFI: > > > >My safflower oil, on the back of the container, says: > > > >Per 10 ml, Calories 80; saturates 1g; polyunsaturates 7g (of which > >omega-6 = 7g, omega-3 = 0g); monounsaturates 1g. > > > > " Product of USA " > > > >These numbers are all rounded, of course. > > How well controlled are nutritional labels? > > I remember going to an asian foods store in the town where I grew > up and finding a sesame cake from Vietnam that had absolutely crazy > nutritional numbers: 53g of protein and if you tried to match the calories > to the amount of fat, protein and carbs, it was off by more than a factor > of three. > > My guess was that the importers were baffled by the need to supply > nutritional figures, and then got the brilliant idea that they could just > make something up. > > The agriculture/food industry says that it can't label GM foods > because they don't have enough control over their products. There have > been big advances in engineering lipid metabolism: pigs that produce > omega-3 fats, plans to commercialize a cocoa butter substitute based on GM > canola... If a food company doesn't have good control of it's > sources, you might find your safflower oil has something close to motor > oil in it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Hi : Perhaps so. But the food product you were saying might well contain motor oil was a US product, not from the locations you mention ......... NOT european, nor Germany, nor Vietnam, and I had specified that it was a US product when I first mentioned it in my earlier post. So you seem to be implying that your opinion is that labeling in the US is just as incompetent as it is in the other countries you mention. You do not seem to have offered an alternative for determining the contents of foods, other doing like the rest of us ..... accepting the data provided in food labels. If the claims you are making are really true then we need to have a better way. So, what do *YOU* do to determine the actual contents of the food products you buy, to avoid consuming the undisclosed motor oil in your example? Or are you consuming just as much motor oil as the rest of us? Rodney. > >Hi : > > > >So are you suggesting we take no notice at all of nutrition labels? > > > >Or, do you have a way to determine what the nutrition content is, > >other than reading the label? > > > >Or, do you have another, better, solution? > > > >I doubt anyone would be startled to find that any producer in a > >backward country, such as Vietnam, lacks accurate knowledge/resources > >to ensure adequate labelling. Are you saying you believe the same is > >true in the US? > > > >Obviously, knowing what is in the stuff we eat is important. So how > >are you suggesting we do that? > > I'm not saying that nutrition labels are worthless... I'm just > wondering what system is in place to make sure they are accurate. > > For instance, we've got the SEC, Sabanes-Oxley and all that to > verify if corporations are publishing accurate accounting > information: what's done for nutrition labels. > > As for products imported from " backwards " countries, they're > still supposed to follow regulatory requirements for things that are sold > here. And it's not just a matter of the third world... European countries > are (in most respects) far behind the US in health and safety -- you'll > still find cigarette vending machines on the streets in Germany, with a > little candy machine for the kids mounted underneath > them. Overall, european countries have lower standards for the safety of > medicines -- regulators there are a lot happier to approve drugs which > require regular testing of liver enzyme levels. Food labels in Europe have > much less information than food labels in the US. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Hi : Perhaps so. But the food product you were saying might well contain motor oil was a US product, not from the locations you mention ......... NOT european, nor Germany, nor Vietnam, and I had specified that it was a US product when I first mentioned it in my earlier post. So you seem to be implying that your opinion is that labeling in the US is just as incompetent as it is in the other countries you mention. You do not seem to have offered an alternative for determining the contents of foods, other doing like the rest of us ..... accepting the data provided in food labels. If the claims you are making are really true then we need to have a better way. So, what do *YOU* do to determine the actual contents of the food products you buy, to avoid consuming the undisclosed motor oil in your example? Or are you consuming just as much motor oil as the rest of us? Rodney. > >Hi : > > > >So are you suggesting we take no notice at all of nutrition labels? > > > >Or, do you have a way to determine what the nutrition content is, > >other than reading the label? > > > >Or, do you have another, better, solution? > > > >I doubt anyone would be startled to find that any producer in a > >backward country, such as Vietnam, lacks accurate knowledge/resources > >to ensure adequate labelling. Are you saying you believe the same is > >true in the US? > > > >Obviously, knowing what is in the stuff we eat is important. So how > >are you suggesting we do that? > > I'm not saying that nutrition labels are worthless... I'm just > wondering what system is in place to make sure they are accurate. > > For instance, we've got the SEC, Sabanes-Oxley and all that to > verify if corporations are publishing accurate accounting > information: what's done for nutrition labels. > > As for products imported from " backwards " countries, they're > still supposed to follow regulatory requirements for things that are sold > here. And it's not just a matter of the third world... European countries > are (in most respects) far behind the US in health and safety -- you'll > still find cigarette vending machines on the streets in Germany, with a > little candy machine for the kids mounted underneath > them. Overall, european countries have lower standards for the safety of > medicines -- regulators there are a lot happier to approve drugs which > require regular testing of liver enzyme levels. Food labels in Europe have > much less information than food labels in the US. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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