cod liver oil

[Guest guest]

We began giving our daughter cod liver oil and the deep sea marine fish oil about 4 months ago. We are using Nordic Naturals products and love them due to the fact that they are much better tasting than the others we tried and she drinks it right down with her juice no problem. Have also heard good things about their outstanding quality from others in the field, which is comforting.

Our goal initially was to gain language from the DHA, based on Dr. Stordy's book. Then I read Dr. Meg's information on the cod oil so I ordered it as well. I feel like we have gained (slowly but surely) many things that I don't think are flukes. Her eye contact and attention span have improved incredibly (but we still need work), her over all attitude is much better, she doesn't act like a spaz bouncing and spinning everywhere, receptive language got better, and she isn't sick all of the time anymore.

Anytime she has come down with something (only twice) it has been short lived instead of the on going sickness saga that we have always dealt with in the past. She is the kind of kid that ALWAYS ends up with the pukes if she is sick so I always take her off of the fish oil because she takes it with orange juice. I have noticed her behavior reverts back to the way it used to be and she is so much more difficult. I also took her off it once in order to have tests run and I couldn't believe the difference in her.

One other thing that is important to note, I began using Brainchild Nutritionals as a source for B6 and Magnesium. This product has MANY of the things that all of us are needing in order to detox and support our special kids. We have seen a difference in her and we have only been doing it for a week. I do think that it will help her to utilize the fish oils properly. I am really a believer on the whole fish oil thing based on my personal experiences with my daughter. She may or may not completely recover from autism but she is certainly doing much better and we are seeing positive changes. My pediatrician isn't supportive at all but he hit the nail on the head when he said "Well, fish oil ain't gonna hurt her so why not give it a shot."

**** Make sure you buy a quality product that is not contaminated*****

Trisha

[Guest guest]

I HAVE A PRODUCT CALLED BRAINSTORM - ALLERGY

RESOURCH GROUP, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT

THIS IS THE SAME PRODUCT AS BRAIN CHILD. THIS PRO

DUCT CONTAINS; vitamin A, C, E, THAIMIN.RIBOFLAVIN,NAICIN

VITAMIN B6, FOLIC ACID, B12, BOITIN, PANTOTHENIC ACID,

ZINC, SELIUM, COPPER,CHROMIUM, MOLYBDENUM, BORON,

GINGO B., SIBERIAN GINSENG, KOREAN GINSENG, GUTO KOLA,

L GLUTAMINE, L TYROSINE, ACETYL-CARNITINE, CHOLINE BITARTRATE,

INOSITOL, DMAE, PHOSPHATIDYLCHOLINE, PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE.

THATS EVERYTHING BRAINSTORM CONTAINS SORRY I DIDN'T LIST

THE AMOUNTS OF EACH THING. I HAVE ONLY GIVEN TWO DAYS

TO MY SON, THE RESULTS SO FAR HAVE BEEN GOOD AND BAD

MUCH INCREASE IN TALKING, WHICH IS GOOD. THE DRAW BACK

HAS BEEN INCREASE HYPERACTIVITY, POSSIBLY THAT WILL SUBSIDE.

CHELATION HAS CAUSE AN INCREASE IN HYPERACTIVITY ALSO AND

INCREASED CURIOUSITY, HE HAS BEEN WANTING TO CLIMB EVER

SINCE I STARTED CHELATION IN DECEMBER. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON

DECREASING THIS BEHAVIOR? THANKS FOR ANY INPUT. JULIE

[Guest guest]

,

I read the ingredients in the Brainstorm that you're giving you r son and

I gave a product to my hyperactive son called Pedi Active that also

contained the DMAE and PS (short for that long ingredient) and he became

more hyper on it. It's supposed to calm kids down and it had the opposite

effect. I heard the DMAE may have caused this. Just a thought, I could be

wrong.

________________________________________________________________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

[Guest guest]

Yes or it could be the gensing, that is for energy but could

cause hyperactivity. When there are so many ingredients

in one product it is really hard to know whats doing what.

That why usually I don't stick with it long enough to get a

good trail done.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with what is written below:

She is the kind of kid that ALWAYS ends up with the pukes if she is

>sick so I always take her off of the fish oil because she takes it with

>orange juice. I have noticed her behavior reverts back to the way it used

>to

>be and she is so much more difficult. I also took her off it once in order

>to

>have tests run and I couldn't believe the difference in her.

>

We had to take ds off of his supplements this week to run some tests -

blood, hair, stool - and the effect (NEGATIVE) has been staggering, to say

the least. He has been on these supplements - inc the oil - for close to a

year and we had all forgotten just how bad he could get. If I had remembered

how he was, I would've videotaped him prior to taking him off supplements

and then WHILE off supplements - just to document the mind-blowing

difference...again, the difference - at least here - in his getting the oil

or not is SCARY at best.

Ann

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/01 11:06:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

losmontez@... writes:

<< I feel like we have gained (slowly but surely) many things that I don't

think are flukes. Her eye contact and attention span have improved

incredibly

(but we still need work), her over all attitude is much better, she doesn't

act like a spaz bouncing and spinning everywhere, receptive language got

better, and she isn't sick all of the time anymore. >>

Hi Trisha,

Is the first sentence a pun (fluke/cod, ha, well so much for my attempt at

humor)? Anyway, we had our son's serum Vit. A. Levels tested in a regular

blood draw. My understanding of this was that the handling of the sample was

different to test Vit. A. levels. Anyway he is severely deficient. He also

soaks up Vit. A. like a sponge. His liver tests, come out well (but we also

supplement SAM-e). Anyway, I tested for Vit. A. deficiency before I

supplemented.

I've supplemented with micelized A. and CLO. The CLO seems to have a longer

affect by looking at 's pupils. His liver enzymes are okay so, I've been

using it. I'd like to know why the body would soak up Vitamin A so fast.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Most of us are using cod liver from Kirkman's which is rigorously tested

to be free of mercury. Barb

what is your experience with CLO??

What is Kirkman's URL??

Bernie

[Guest guest]

Has anyone used Cod Liver Oil from Dale (Cherry Flavored)? Is it

free of Mercury? I know Kirkman's is but it doesnt taste as good? Thanks for

any input

[Guest guest]

6 March 2001

www.kirkmanlabs.com

or something similar. Try www.google.com type in Kirkamn labs if former does

not work.

Regards

Rick

[ ] re: cod liver oil

>

> Most of us are using cod liver from Kirkman's which is rigorously tested

>

> to be free of mercury. Barb

>

> what is your experience with CLO??

> What is Kirkman's URL??

>

> Bernie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

n, I remember when she wrote that letter. At that time, there

was no good supplies of cod-liver oil on the market. And we know

now that cod-liver oil was known to have heavy amounts of mercury.

And she knew that kids would just flip out on cod-liver oil, I

know mine went nuts, and ran out in the road, unexpectedly, and

it was the good lord that was looking over him that day, that a

car was not coming.

She had other ways of increasing the omega-3 fatty acids. I had

heard her make other statements like this one: " Never doubt for one

second that your child is in there aware of everything. "

And I didn't believe that for a second, if anything the opposite

was true. We could go over and over the same little simple task

and he just couldn't grasp it, then when he seemed to understand,

just give him a few days and he would forget it again. I pressured

the therapists to keep working harder and harder, and I did the

same. Only after a million tries would he finally get it down

pat. No way was Forrest completely understanding and aware of what

was going on in the world, just no way.... until, we started Bodybio,

and something switched on, he was awakened, I don't know what to

call it. And it was like I didn't know my child the way that I

thought I knew him, he could write, he could understand (seemingly)

everything that I was telling him. And how could he

suddenly be asking questions after being non-verbal all of his

life? My husband and I asked those questions and the only thing

that we could figure was perhaps he had been rehearsing speech in

his head, but that he just couldn't get the words to come out.

The level of stress over his autism has markedly decreased from

that day, I no longer get upset if he isn't run through the drills,

or he didn't get enough special education that day. All I ask of

the school is to get him in some regular classes, at least for

part of the day. You may think you are ready for that day of

recovery, that you have even fantasized about what it would be like,

but speaking from experience, it is nothing like you will ever

imagine. You think you will be happy, but you will cry all the

time (tears of joy, but tears never the less), you will think

at first that suddenly, hey! it is great that he can dress himself,

but then you feel a little tug at your heart, that your child

doesn't need you as much as he did before. But what it really comes

to is that of normal feelings, anyone would feel that way if their child

had so dramatically changed in just a matter of weeks. And there is

no way to prepare yourself for that day.

I see a lot of words like " savant " or " retarded " in association

with autism, and I think my son is neither. Only that he has a

handicap, but underneath is a very normal little kid.

Best, Carlton

Filmar2@... wrote:

>

> <A

> HREF= " http://www.mercola.com/1999/nov/21/vitamin_a_cod_liver_oil.htm " >Click

> here: Dr. Kane Responds to Question About Vitamin</A>

>

> I seem to be on a Kane kick tonight. Here is her response to

> a

> question about using cod liver oil. (I hope this isn't something

>

> Carlton already posted.) Not enzymes stuff, but I recall some posts

> on it.

>

> n

>

>

[Guest guest]

, this is a great message of yours - did you use secretin with your

child - we are using one that you apply transdermally and he is certainly a

lot more receptive etc - would you suggest that we move onto or at the same

time the buyrate - where can I get some do you know - if you could supply

the specifics I would be gratful - I will also add in the bicarb after

meals etc. - our childs bowels have normalized on the enzymes and he is

having very few sideeffects with foods so he is now calmer etc and his life

is nicer but the fog is still there - he is understanding and talking but

not really putting his language together and still missing chunks when I

ask him things that require more than a yes no answer - I feel we are

closer all the time with our child but now he needs a fog lifter - would

appreciate your advice as to the steps you took and would recommend to us.

Cheers H

Re: [ ] Cod Liver Oil

n, I remember when she wrote that letter. At that time, there

was no good supplies of cod-liver oil on the market. And we know

now that cod-liver oil was known to have heavy amounts of mercury.

And she knew that kids would just flip out on cod-liver oil, I

know mine went nuts, and ran out in the road, unexpectedly, and

it was the good lord that was looking over him that day, that a

car was not coming.

She had other ways of increasing the omega-3 fatty acids. I had

heard her make other statements like this one: " Never doubt for one

second that your child is in there aware of everything. "

And I didn't believe that for a second, if anything the opposite

was true. We could go over and over the same little simple task

and he just couldn't grasp it, then when he seemed to understand,

just give him a few days and he would forget it again. I pressured

the therapists to keep working harder and harder, and I did the

same. Only after a million tries would he finally get it down

pat. No way was Forrest completely understanding and aware of what

was going on in the world, just no way.... until, we started Bodybio,

and something switched on, he was awakened, I don't know what to

call it. And it was like I didn't know my child the way that I

thought I knew him, he could write, he could understand (seemingly)

everything that I was telling him. And how could he

suddenly be asking questions after being non-verbal all of his

life? My husband and I asked those questions and the only thing

that we could figure was perhaps he had been rehearsing speech in

his head, but that he just couldn't get the words to come out.

The level of stress over his autism has markedly decreased from

that day, I no longer get upset if he isn't run through the drills,

or he didn't get enough special education that day. All I ask of

the school is to get him in some regular classes, at least for

part of the day. You may think you are ready for that day of

recovery, that you have even fantasized about what it would be like,

but speaking from experience, it is nothing like you will ever

imagine. You think you will be happy, but you will cry all the

time (tears of joy, but tears never the less), you will think

at first that suddenly, hey! it is great that he can dress himself,

but then you feel a little tug at your heart, that your child

doesn't need you as much as he did before. But what it really comes

to is that of normal feelings, anyone would feel that way if their child

had so dramatically changed in just a matter of weeks. And there is

no way to prepare yourself for that day.

I see a lot of words like " savant " or " retarded " in association

with autism, and I think my son is neither. Only that he has a

handicap, but underneath is a very normal little kid.

Best, Carlton

Filmar2@... wrote:

>

> <A

> HREF= " http://www.mercola.com/1999/nov/21/vitamin_a_cod_liver_oil.htm " >

Click

> here: Dr. Kane Responds to Question About Vitamin</A>

>

> I seem to be on a Kane kick tonight. Here is her response to

> a

> question about using cod liver oil. (I hope this isn't something

>

> Carlton already posted.) Not enzymes stuff, but I recall some posts

> on it.

>

> n

>

>

[Guest guest]

, My story about secretin will always infuriate a few, and

maybe someday I will understand why it does. My son had been

in the hospital, ironic that I am writing this on Halloween night,

because that is when it all started. As hard as we tried, he

got into some halloween candy, we ended up in the hospital with

intractable diarrhea. I called Dr.Lieberman because after we

got out, his diarrhea just wouldn't stop. He gave Forrest

sublingual secretin, and we were also under the care of a

Gastroenterologist, that took ultra sounds and told us that

Forrest was impacted, that the diarrhea was streaming around

the impaction. We used the secretin, and in a couple of days,

we went back to the gastroenterologist. He did another ultra

sound and loudly spoke to me and said " what did you do! " When

I told him that we gave him secretin, he laughed, but he couldn't

believe that the impaction was gone. I couldn't say anything

for about a month, I was asked not to, but I could when it

became public, and enough time for I guess my doctor to get more.

I think he got the secretin just for Forrest and had no way of getting

more, so he didn't want me to say anything until he could.

I started telling my story about secretin, and did so for

nine months before the Dateline show, only a few parents were

interested in secretin prior to the Dateline show. Since we

were one of the first to have used it, Forrest was on it longer,

and I started to notice that the secretin was causing side

effects, only everyone had just heard about the miracle effects

of secretin, so nobody listened to me when I tried to tell them

that it caused problems. Still in the shadows was the mystery

of secretin, why did it stop the diarrhea?, how did that stool

impaction disappear so quickly? That is when I learned about

sodium bicarbonate carbonate from our Bodybio treatment, this

was something Dr.Kane had been using for these problems for

years, she had been using this product even before my son was

born, and he is now a couple weeks away from being 10 years old.

When I give information out about butyrate and sodium bicarbonate

carbonate, I am not trying to compete with the digestive enzymes,

all I am trying to say is that maybe your child will get more

from the enzymes, if you use these two products or one or the

other to compliment your enzyme program. However, the sodium

bicarbonate carbonate is a competitor for secretin. In other

words, you will not need secretin, if you use sodium bicarbonate

carbonate. And for heaven sakes, save that money, sodium bicarbonate

carbonate only cost 7.08, big difference that will help your

family financially. Neither butyrate or sodium bicarbonate carbonate

will replace or substitute for what the enzymes can do.

There is another product that I learned about from Forrest's

Bodybio treatment, that does promote speech, but it should be

used sparingly. It is called Pregnenolone, it is a hormone, so

I don't advise to use it for long. I would start with just

a little bit of the butyrate, it is hard to tell if it would

give him a problem, but if it seems to do that, then you just cannot

use it. You might have to look into getting some antifungals,

or something in that area. Let your son be the guide, and I

never start a new supplement on anymore than just a sprinkle

from that capsule, and gradually increase the dosage to see

how he does, and I do that on a day, where I can watch him,

like on the weekend. Best, Carlton

Emerson's http://www.emersonecologics.com/main.asp

Cal/MAG Butyrate 2:1 Ratio 42mgs calcium

21mgs magnesium

also contains hydroxproplymethyl cellulose, magnesium sterate, silicon

dioxide

12.95 for 90 caps

--------------------------------------

Butyrex by T.E. Neesby calcium 480mg

magnesium 240mg

also contains butyric acid, calcium hydroxide, magnesium hydroxide,

diglycerides, magnesium sterate

Fresno, Ca 93720

http://www.aehf.com/cgi-bin/web_store.cgi?product=nutr & cart_id=8753967.15333

There are a couple of sites that have the T.E.Neesby, but I don't

see the site that we bought ours, and we couldn't use this brand

for Forrest, it might just have been too much mag/cal, he weights

around 55lbs. Theirs is 34.95 for 250 caps.

wrote:

>

> , this is a great message of yours - did you use secretin with

> your

> child - we are using one that you apply transdermally and he is

> certainly a

> lot more receptive etc - would you suggest that we move onto or at the

> same

> time the buyrate - where can I get some do you know - if you could

> supply

> the specifics I would be gratful - I will also add in the bicarb after

>

> meals etc. - our childs bowels have normalized on the enzymes and he

> is

> having very few sideeffects with foods so he is now calmer etc and his

> life

> is nicer but the fog is still there - he is understanding and talking

> but

> not really putting his language together and still missing chunks when

> I

> ask him things that require more than a yes no answer - I feel we are

> closer all the time with our child but now he needs a fog lifter -

> would

> appreciate your advice as to the steps you took and would recommend to

> us.

> Cheers H

>

> Re: [ ] Cod Liver Oil

>

> n, I remember when she wrote that letter. At that time, there

> was no good supplies of cod-liver oil on the market. And we know

> now that cod-liver oil was known to have heavy amounts of mercury.

> And she knew that kids would just flip out on cod-liver oil, I

> know mine went nuts, and ran out in the road, unexpectedly, and

> it was the good lord that was looking over him that day, that a

> car was not coming.

> She had other ways of increasing the omega-3 fatty acids. I had

> heard her make other statements like this one: " Never doubt for one

> second that your child is in there aware of everything. "

> And I didn't believe that for a second, if anything the opposite

> was true. We could go over and over the same little simple task

> and he just couldn't grasp it, then when he seemed to understand,

> just give him a few days and he would forget it again. I pressured

> the therapists to keep working harder and harder, and I did the

> same. Only after a million tries would he finally get it down

> pat. No way was Forrest completely understanding and aware of what

> was going on in the world, just no way.... until, we started Bodybio,

> and something switched on, he was awakened, I don't know what to

> call it. And it was like I didn't know my child the way that I

> thought I knew him, he could write, he could understand (seemingly)

> everything that I was telling him. And how could he

> suddenly be asking questions after being non-verbal all of his

> life? My husband and I asked those questions and the only thing

> that we could figure was perhaps he had been rehearsing speech in

> his head, but that he just couldn't get the words to come out.

> The level of stress over his autism has markedly decreased from

> that day, I no longer get upset if he isn't run through the drills,

> or he didn't get enough special education that day. All I ask of

> the school is to get him in some regular classes, at least for

> part of the day. You may think you are ready for that day of

> recovery, that you have even fantasized about what it would be like,

> but speaking from experience, it is nothing like you will ever

> imagine. You think you will be happy, but you will cry all the

> time (tears of joy, but tears never the less), you will think

> at first that suddenly, hey! it is great that he can dress himself,

> but then you feel a little tug at your heart, that your child

> doesn't need you as much as he did before. But what it really comes

> to is that of normal feelings, anyone would feel that way if their

> child

> had so dramatically changed in just a matter of weeks. And there is

> no way to prepare yourself for that day.

> I see a lot of words like " savant " or " retarded " in association

> with autism, and I think my son is neither. Only that he has a

> handicap, but underneath is a very normal little kid.

> Best, Carlton

>

> Filmar2@... wrote:

> >

> > <A

> >

> HREF= " http://www.mercola.com/1999/nov/21/vitamin_a_cod_liver_oil.htm " >

>

> Click

> > here: Dr. Kane Responds to Question About Vitamin</A>

> >

> > I seem to be on a Kane kick tonight. Here is her response

> to

> > a

> > question about using cod liver oil. (I hope this isn't something

> >

> > Carlton already posted.) Not enzymes stuff, but I recall some posts

> > on it.

> >

> > n

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi , I have some of the Bio Tech Solium Bicarbonate Carbonate - when

do I use this product. Also I have now ordered the butyrate, when would I

use this product? And lastly the pregnenolone, which is the product that I

need to order, there are 12 different products on this sight, which is the

right one - my child is 60 lbs and 6 years of age - I am very excited about

him at present, he is more and more with it and talking etc. Hollowen was

last night, he followed all the kids around and got is sweets and ate them

and was just so fine - this is so exciting to me.

Please explain to me how to use the Pregnenolone as well.

And to clarify did secretin give you good results or cause more

complications? I was unclear from your email. What you are saying is it

is to do with the release from the pancreas that is most important and yes

if we can get there with sodium etc then thats fine.

We have 21 days supply of secretin which we will use up and see how he goes

- however I am very excitied to be going down this area - it makes sense to

me -

The Butyrate, could you explain the process again to me so I am clear, or

direct me to where I can read about it.

Thanks for your time you are very easy for me to understand and you

have so much knowledge and sense.

The enzymes are so fantastic to me to have a child who pigged out last

night on sweets and today to carry on as if nothing happened is such a

stress realease for our family. We now just need to jump up a few notches

to keep moving in the right direction.

He is on amphiterican as his anitfungal.

Cheers H

Re: [ ] Cod Liver Oil

>

> n, I remember when she wrote that letter. At that time, there

> was no good supplies of cod-liver oil on the market. And we know

> now that cod-liver oil was known to have heavy amounts of mercury.

> And she knew that kids would just flip out on cod-liver oil, I

> know mine went nuts, and ran out in the road, unexpectedly, and

> it was the good lord that was looking over him that day, that a

> car was not coming.

> She had other ways of increasing the omega-3 fatty acids. I had

> heard her make other statements like this one: " Never doubt for one

> second that your child is in there aware of everything. "

> And I didn't believe that for a second, if anything the opposite

> was true. We could go over and over the same little simple task

> and he just couldn't grasp it, then when he seemed to understand,

> just give him a few days and he would forget it again. I pressured

> the therapists to keep working harder and harder, and I did the

> same. Only after a million tries would he finally get it down

> pat. No way was Forrest completely understanding and aware of what

> was going on in the world, just no way.... until, we started Bodybio,

> and something switched on, he was awakened, I don't know what to

> call it. And it was like I didn't know my child the way that I

> thought I knew him, he could write, he could understand (seemingly)

> everything that I was telling him. And how could he

> suddenly be asking questions after being non-verbal all of his

> life? My husband and I asked those questions and the only thing

> that we could figure was perhaps he had been rehearsing speech in

> his head, but that he just couldn't get the words to come out.

> The level of stress over his autism has markedly decreased from

> that day, I no longer get upset if he isn't run through the drills,

> or he didn't get enough special education that day. All I ask of

> the school is to get him in some regular classes, at least for

> part of the day. You may think you are ready for that day of

> recovery, that you have even fantasized about what it would be like,

> but speaking from experience, it is nothing like you will ever

> imagine. You think you will be happy, but you will cry all the

> time (tears of joy, but tears never the less), you will think

> at first that suddenly, hey! it is great that he can dress himself,

> but then you feel a little tug at your heart, that your child

> doesn't need you as much as he did before. But what it really comes

> to is that of normal feelings, anyone would feel that way if their

> child

> had so dramatically changed in just a matter of weeks. And there is

> no way to prepare yourself for that day.

> I see a lot of words like " savant " or " retarded " in association

> with autism, and I think my son is neither. Only that he has a

> handicap, but underneath is a very normal little kid.

> Best, Carlton

>

> Filmar2@... wrote:

> >

> > <A

> >

> HREF= " http://www.mercola.com/1999/nov/21/vitamin_a_cod_liver_oil.htm " >

>

> Click

> > here: Dr. Kane Responds to Question About Vitamin</A>

> >

> > I seem to be on a Kane kick tonight. Here is her response

> to

> > a

> > question about using cod liver oil. (I hope this isn't something

> >

> > Carlton already posted.) Not enzymes stuff, but I recall some posts

> > on it.

> >

> > n

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>

> Hi , I have some of the Bio Tech Solium Bicarbonate Carbonate -

> when

> do I use this product.

, that is the same product we ordered. I did use a whole capsule

at one time, in the beginning. I mixed it with some water, and

gave it to him, a couple of minutes before the enzymes, and

approx. one hour after a meal. We were giving the enzymes one

hour after a meal, too. We knew he needed the plant enzymes,

but those were hard to get him started on, so that was when

I started giving him the sodium bicarbonate carbonate just

before, and the enzymes worked beautifully after that. Just

work with this products, using a little at a time, and watch

how they do, and then you can figure out what is the best way

to use them effectively. That is something even their doctor

cannot advise you with, you just got to see what happens, and

find out what works the best. Just go slowly. You maybe surprised

that they will teach you the right way. I listened to Forrest,

let him see what I was putting on the spoon, and after he had

that supplement once, he would let me know if he wanted it again,

and if he pushed it away, I just tried it at another time.

I had to use common sense, because he wanted to take the Niacin

himself, and I think he was just wanting to get that flushed

feeling, and I wasn't sure too much of that was going to be a

good thing.

Also I have now ordered the butyrate, when

> would I

> use this product?

You need to spread the butyrate out through the day, what I am

doing now, is giving him one in he morning, one after school,

and one (sometimes if I can catch him) just before he goes to

sleep at night. It mixes good with oil, so I put it with his

primrose oil and cod-liver oil.

And lastly the pregnenolone, which is the product

> that I

> need to order, there are 12 different products on this sight, which is

> the

> right one - my child is 60 lbs and 6 years of age -

We used the 25mgs, the lowest one that you can find, and only gave

him 1/3rd of the tablet a day, for five days on, then stopped

for 3 days, then did that for about two or three weeks.

I am very excited

> about

> him at present, he is more and more with it and talking etc.

> Hollowen was

> last night, he followed all the kids around and got is sweets and ate

> them

> and was just so fine - this is so exciting to me.

For us too! He ate tons of candy! It did make him just a little

bit hyper, but not really bad, and he didn't have any stomach

pain.

> Please explain to me how to use the Pregnenolone as well.

> And to clarify did secretin give you good results or cause more

> complications?

Secretin was wonderful the first time we used it, he was having

really bad diarrhea and it stopped the diarrhea, and cleared

up his stool impacted colon, but then Forrest kept on getting

stopped up again, and the secretin was no longer helping, and

what got worst was he started wetting his pants, and he pretty

much had control over that before. I stopped using it because

I was having to change him several times a day. We were still

having problems with constipation and diarrhea, and smeary poops,

but after we started using these supplements he cleared up,

and he cleared up for good. I only used the sodium bicarbonate

carbonate for a short time, then only a couple of times this

past year. He had to stay on the enzymes for about 8 months, and

he is still on the butyrate.

I was unclear from your email. What you are saying is

> it

> is to do with the release from the pancreas that is most important and

> yes

> if we can get there with sodium etc then thats fine.

Yes, sodium bicarbonate carbonate will release pancreatic enzymes,

and not only just secretin, it lets go of VIP, which they once

thought was secretin's secret, because VIP does have brain

function.

> We have 21 days supply of secretin which we will use up and see how he

> goes

> - however I am very excitied to be going down this area - it makes

> sense to

> me -

Look out for problems, I think the first thing that many parents

notice is that they still have constipation, but then a lot of

them had the same problem with them wetting their pants. You

need to stop if that starts to happen.

> The Butyrate, could you explain the process again to me so I am clear,

> or

> direct me to where I can read about it.

Short chain fatty acids are found in the colon, they regulate the

fecal microflora. However, butyrate can lower ammonia levels,too.

> Thanks for your time you are very easy for me to understand and

> you

> have so much knowledge and sense.

Thank you very much , but I didn't learn this stuff without

the help of Dr. Kane, when she recommended to Forrest's doctor

these supplements, I learned about them, before I gave them to my

son. And she helped me find some of the information, she gave

me the references. She couldn't advise me on these products but

she lead me to places that I could read about them. I wouldn't

have even known about these products if she hadn't recommended them.

I will have to look through my files, but I probably kept some

information on butyrate.

Best, Carlton

[Guest guest]

Thanks , I look forward to any information you can give me. Please

tell me about your child - how old is he and what is his level of

functioning now, - language and social interaction etc. From this I can

guage where we are at

Cheers H

Re: [ ] Cod Liver Oil

wrote:

>

> Hi , I have some of the Bio Tech Solium Bicarbonate Carbonate -

> when

> do I use this product.

, that is the same product we ordered. I did use a whole capsule

at one time, in the beginning. I mixed it with some water, and

gave it to him, a couple of minutes before the enzymes, and

approx. one hour after a meal. We were giving the enzymes one

hour after a meal, too. We knew he needed the plant enzymes,

but those were hard to get him started on, so that was when

I started giving him the sodium bicarbonate carbonate just

before, and the enzymes worked beautifully after that. Just

work with this products, using a little at a time, and watch

how they do, and then you can figure out what is the best way

to use them effectively. That is something even their doctor

cannot advise you with, you just got to see what happens, and

find out what works the best. Just go slowly. You maybe surprised

that they will teach you the right way. I listened to Forrest,

let him see what I was putting on the spoon, and after he had

that supplement once, he would let me know if he wanted it again,

and if he pushed it away, I just tried it at another time.

I had to use common sense, because he wanted to take the Niacin

himself, and I think he was just wanting to get that flushed

feeling, and I wasn't sure too much of that was going to be a

good thing.

Also I have now ordered the butyrate, when

> would I

> use this product?

You need to spread the butyrate out through the day, what I am

doing now, is giving him one in he morning, one after school,

and one (sometimes if I can catch him) just before he goes to

sleep at night. It mixes good with oil, so I put it with his

primrose oil and cod-liver oil.

And lastly the pregnenolone, which is the product

> that I

> need to order, there are 12 different products on this sight, which is

> the

> right one - my child is 60 lbs and 6 years of age -

We used the 25mgs, the lowest one that you can find, and only gave

him 1/3rd of the tablet a day, for five days on, then stopped

for 3 days, then did that for about two or three weeks.

I am very excited

> about

> him at present, he is more and more with it and talking etc.

> Hollowen was

> last night, he followed all the kids around and got is sweets and ate

> them

> and was just so fine - this is so exciting to me.

For us too! He ate tons of candy! It did make him just a little

bit hyper, but not really bad, and he didn't have any stomach

pain.

> Please explain to me how to use the Pregnenolone as well.

> And to clarify did secretin give you good results or cause more

> complications?

Secretin was wonderful the first time we used it, he was having

really bad diarrhea and it stopped the diarrhea, and cleared

up his stool impacted colon, but then Forrest kept on getting

stopped up again, and the secretin was no longer helping, and

what got worst was he started wetting his pants, and he pretty

much had control over that before. I stopped using it because

I was having to change him several times a day. We were still

having problems with constipation and diarrhea, and smeary poops,

but after we started using these supplements he cleared up,

and he cleared up for good. I only used the sodium bicarbonate

carbonate for a short time, then only a couple of times this

past year. He had to stay on the enzymes for about 8 months, and

he is still on the butyrate.

I was unclear from your email. What you are saying is

> it

> is to do with the release from the pancreas that is most important and

> yes

> if we can get there with sodium etc then thats fine.

Yes, sodium bicarbonate carbonate will release pancreatic enzymes,

and not only just secretin, it lets go of VIP, which they once

thought was secretin's secret, because VIP does have brain

function.

> We have 21 days supply of secretin which we will use up and see how he

> goes

> - however I am very excitied to be going down this area - it makes

> sense to

> me -

Look out for problems, I think the first thing that many parents

notice is that they still have constipation, but then a lot of

them had the same problem with them wetting their pants. You

need to stop if that starts to happen.

> The Butyrate, could you explain the process again to me so I am clear,

> or

> direct me to where I can read about it.

Short chain fatty acids are found in the colon, they regulate the

fecal microflora. However, butyrate can lower ammonia levels,too.

> Thanks for your time you are very easy for me to understand and

> you

> have so much knowledge and sense.

Thank you very much , but I didn't learn this stuff without

the help of Dr. Kane, when she recommended to Forrest's doctor

these supplements, I learned about them, before I gave them to my

son. And she helped me find some of the information, she gave

me the references. She couldn't advise me on these products but

she lead me to places that I could read about them. I wouldn't

have even known about these products if she hadn't recommended them.

I will have to look through my files, but I probably kept some

information on butyrate.

Best, Carlton

[Guest guest]

, Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could compare our children,

I mean really compare them, but they are each individual, so that

is really rather hard to do. Forrest will be 10 years old next

month. It has been quite a journey with him. If I could put

a label on myself, what I have done on the internet for the past

approx.8 years, I think people would say that " is the

supplement finder " " she looks for natural products, and foods

that might help her kid or other kids with autism " . And what I

have learned is that so far, it cannot be found all in one pill,

no silver bullet as of yet. And if you can find someone that

can take a recent blood test, and all your past medical testing

on that child, put it all together and formulate a treatment,

that is probably the best that can be done. Only it is hard

finding someone that can do that, I mean there are plenty of

professionals out there that claim to be able to do just that,

but can they make a difference? Or will they just make your

child worst? And most frustrating is will you put your child

through all that and end up with nothing. And personally if

Forrest hadn't been so severely handicapped, I wouldn't think of

doing anything like that, but he is, so I had to make choices.

And with what little money that we have, I had to get something

at a bargain, a treatment that was going to help him, but that

didn't sink us further into debt. And I felt like I was spending

a fortune on supplements, the same supplements that many parents

were saying that helped their children, but they weren't doing

anything for Forrest. That is why I decided on Bodybio, because

all I wanted was for someone to tell me what supplements does

this child need, so I wouldn't go endlessly buying and trying

things that didn't help him. And I learned a valuable lesson,

you have to know how to use some supplements, because there

was a couple of supplements on the Bodybio treatment that we

had tried before, and didn't help, but the problem was that

I didn't know how to use it correctly. And the order that

you use the supplements does matter, it makes all the difference.

That is why when you get a supplement, and you know that it is

suppose to help your child, your doctor says it will, and testing

shows that they need it, then why doesn't it work, and that is

because you have to understand what is wrong, and what to do

about it. That is what I got out of the Bodybio treatment, I

got an order to go in, and instructions on how to use that

supplement. And I found several key supplements that have been

fantastic. When I talk about these key supplements on a list,

I get lucky and find other kids that needed that supplement too.

I forget how many supplements were recommended through Bodybio

for Forrest, but it was the first 5 or so that made all the

difference.

, I have two abstracts, one on the sodium bicarbonate carbonate

and secretin, and another on the butyrate and immune system. And

, I forgot to mention that secretin also causes reflux.

Best, Carlton

Exp Physiol 1992 Jul;77(4):601-13

Cholinergic mechanisms for secretin release after intraduodenal

alkalinization in the anaesthetized rabbit.

LJ, Montero A, Minguela A, Calvo JJ, MA

Departamento de Fisiologia y Farmacologia, Universidad de Salamanca,

Spain.

Exocrine pancreatic response to duodenal perfusion with alkaline

solutions (pH 11.4) was studied in the anaesthetized rabbit;

secretin and vasoactive intestinal polypeptide (VIP) levels in portal

plasma were measured and the contribution of cholinergic

mechanisms was also evaluated. Intraduodenal perfusion of sodium

carbonate stimulated flow rate and bicarbonate output to a

maximum of 322 +/- 44 and 609 +/- 105% respectively compared with basal

levels. Significant increases of plasma secretin levels,

with a maximum of 267 +/- 38% as compared with basal, were also

observed. A lower increase in VIP levels (maximum of 151

+/- 12%) was seen. All these effects, except the VIP response, were

substantially inhibited by atropine. Our results show that

exocrine pancreatic response to intraduodenal sodium carbonate is

specifically focused on hydroelectrolytic secretion. Keeping in

mind what occurs after intraduodenal alkaline phosphate buffer

administration (at the same pH as sodium carbonate: 11.4) it seems

that about 50% of the pancreatic response to sodium carbonate may be

ascribed to pH and the remaining 50% to the carbonate

anion. Moreover, this response would mainly be mediated by secretin,

whose release can be facilitated by a cholinergic reflex.

PMID: 1524818, UI: 92398949

Ann R Coll Surg Engl 2001 Mar;83(2):75-80

The role of the colonic flora in maintaining a healthy large bowel

mucosa.

Chapman MA

Good Hope Hospital, Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, UK.

mark.chapman@...

This work explores the intricate relationships between bacterial

products of fermentation, the short chain fatty acids and the

effect that these have on the colonic epithelium and the immune system.

It confirms that butyrate is a major energy source for the

colonic epithelium and there may be a minor epithelial abnormality in

the metabolism of butyrate in patients with ulcerative colitis.

Immunological studies suggest that butyrate has an effect on lymphocyte

activation and inhibits cell proliferation. Possibly,

butyrate induces anergy in lymphocytes via an effect on the TCR

receptor. This may represent a mechanism whereby colonic

bacteria are able to regulate the host immune response. An abnormal

response to butyrate may upset the homeostasis between

the gut immune system and the colonising bacteria resulting in

epithelial unrest and inflammation.

Publication Types:

Addresses

PMID: 11320933, UI: 21218373

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for letting me know how much cal/mag butyrate to take. My son

is 11 1/2 and is 120 lbs. I also read your mail about sodium bicarbonate

carbonate. Where can I buy it. I would like to try it also? Thanks for

all your help.

Vinutha

________________________________________________________________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

[Guest guest]

http://bio-tech-pharm.com/products/sodiums.html

http://www.emersonecologics.com/

Vinutha, Either place carries it.

Bio-Tech's is $8.50 sodium bicarbonate carbonate

Emerson's carries Bio-Tech's (the same product) for $7.08.

Just search for sodium bicarbonate and it will come up.

Code SOD18

Best, Carlton

vinutha shekhar wrote:

>

> ,

> Thank you for letting me know how much cal/mag butyrate to take. My

> son

> is 11 1/2 and is 120 lbs. I also read your mail about sodium

> bicarbonate

> carbonate. Where can I buy it. I would like to try it also? Thanks for

> all your help.

>

> Vinutha

> ________________________________________________________________

> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that Caroline,

Though I have looked into this, I have not done so nearly as much as Adam (owner

of Equazen/maker of Eye-Q oil) has done. I shall use a response he sent to

another list about this same subject. What you have read would be enough to

worry anyone, though it is not clear if urecholine was continued despite

seizures, the Depakote would have been expected to do something even without

withdrawal of CLO wouldn't you think?

Jon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to contribute to this forum as my company, Equazen,

specialises in omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, and is the

manufacturer of eye q.

We have looked very closely at possible linkages between fatty acids

and epilepsy, and have found no evidence of either the Omega-3 or

Omega-6 components of eye q being in any way responsible for seizures.

About 80 percent of the capsules are Omega-3 fish oil, for which

there is clearly no linkage, essentially because of our understanding

of how this functions physiologically. The Omega-3 elements generally

have a calming effect, attributed mainly to the role of anti-

inflammatory prostaglandins. In fact, we do get reports from parents

of epileptic children who say there have been no seizures since

taking eye q. But this information remains anecdotal and is not

supported by any trial data. It may just be coincidental.

The main area of concern has come from queries about the lesser Omega-

6 component, evening primrose oil, which comprises about 20 percent

of the capsule. We have looked extensively at all available trial

data, and cannot find any evidence to support warnings about epilepsy

still seen on many packs of evening primrose oil. This assertion

appears to be based on a 1988 FDA directive that was based on

concerns about a trial in Sweden in which EPO was used on a group of

24 psychiatric patients, of whom three had seizures. A closer

evaluation of the trial results indicated that EPO had been wrongly

attributed for causing these seizures: in fact, the cause seemed to

be the side effects of a course of neuroleptic drugs that they were

on.

Hence the FDA, as do all medical authorities, regard EPO as a safe

dietary supplement. But this fact seems to have been missed by those

manufacturers that still carry the warning on many labels. Perhaps

they just have not really bothered to look closely and clarify the

issue, when EPO is just one product within a wider range. But as this

is our specialty, we have to make it our business to know. And the

fact remains that 1000s of tons of EPO are consumed around the world

and there does not seem to be any sign that this mass OTC product has

caused seizures. As with fish oil, there does not appear to be any

physiological mechanism here that would explain why EPO would trigger

epilepsy. So perhaps that is why there is zero trial data to support

this urban myth.

Whenever I do get an inquiry on this issue, I always bounce it back

to whoever asks, and request that they give me any information of any

sort in which it seems, even anecdotally, that EPO has caused

seizures. So far, I have not had any reply: maybe I will be proved

wrong today!

Kind regards

Adam Kelliher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: cod liver oil

On 10/5/02 12:13 PM, " Jon " <jerseybean@...> wrote:

> CLO has no association with seizures, EPO has been suggested to have but the

> evidence isn't there for that either.

Jon,

I don't know much about CLO myself... I'm merely repeating what I think I

heard (or rather saw, as it was on a chat). If you are interested, why not

post a question to " Ask Dr. Goldberg " on his website and maybe he could

explain what he meant. If believes there is some association there, it

certainly wouldn't hurt to hear his views. I went through and searched that

section and it seems as though he did not used to be quite so opposed to

CLO, but maybe has become more so over time... I'm not quite sure.

I found this OLD post in the " Ask Dr. Goldberg " section. I'm not sure if

this was one of the events he was referring to or not, and clearly it is not

a " clinical trial " type of proof (and it seems to have happened in

conjunction with the urecholine), but thought you might be interested to

read it...

From " Traci "

Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 04:14 AM

A note of caution on Vitamin A treatments--we used this protocol with my

five year old son, under the guidance of his physician.

While did very well for the first three months, one month after we

added the urecholine, he suddenly developed a seizure disorder, which

escalated from absent seizures to two episodes of Grand Mal seizures. While

I can't say for certain it was the CLO that did it, I can say that after

had been off the CLO for about nine weeks, the seizures seemed to

vanish. We are currently decreasing his dose of Depakote to see what

happens. From one mom who tried it--just proceed with caution. Make sure you

have a physician involved. Vitamin A toxicity isn't anything to play around

with. We are getting our bloodwork drawn next week--I'm very excited

about Dr. Goldberg's ideas--something which finally seems to be based on

sound, medical practice!

Just thoughts from a parent who's been there--good luck to you and your

child.

Here is Dr. Goldberg's reply...

Dear Traci,

I very much appreciate your post and insight. Unfortunately, not enough will

be exposed to this information to stop the ³new² risky ³cure of the month²

supported by many out there. HOW many incidents like this have been

discussed or published in the various ³Autism² newsletters you all receive,

or on Internet distribution lists. Unfortunately, ³negative,² some very

negative experiences or not rare anymore. My wife listens to me scream and

yell nightly at how many children are likely being hurt ³iatrogenically² by

the usage of Secretin, steroids, Vitamin A and Urocholine, high dose Vitamin

B, unsafe supplements including ³bovine² animal part extracts (unfortunately

in the world we live, a potential risk of PRION diseases depending upon

processing handling, etc.). ³PRION² time bombs in many children receiving

Secretin has become unacceptable (it always should have been) as NO

controlled studies are showing any significant or consistent gains. I

understand (??) even the manufacturer is backing off in funding efforts /

support.

MJG

[Guest guest]

On 10/5/02 12:13 PM, " Jon " <jerseybean@...> wrote:

> CLO has no association with seizures, EPO has been suggested to have but the

> evidence isn't there for that either.

Jon,

I don't know much about CLO myself... I'm merely repeating what I think I

heard (or rather saw, as it was on a chat). If you are interested, why not

post a question to " Ask Dr. Goldberg " on his website and maybe he could

explain what he meant. If believes there is some association there, it

certainly wouldn't hurt to hear his views. I went through and searched that

section and it seems as though he did not used to be quite so opposed to

CLO, but maybe has become more so over time... I'm not quite sure.

I found this OLD post in the " Ask Dr. Goldberg " section. I'm not sure if

this was one of the events he was referring to or not, and clearly it is not

a " clinical trial " type of proof (and it seems to have happened in

conjunction with the urecholine), but thought you might be interested to

read it...

From " Traci "

Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 04:14 AM

A note of caution on Vitamin A treatments--we used this protocol with my

five year old son, under the guidance of his physician.

While did very well for the first three months, one month after we

added the urecholine, he suddenly developed a seizure disorder, which

escalated from absent seizures to two episodes of Grand Mal seizures. While

I can't say for certain it was the CLO that did it, I can say that after

had been off the CLO for about nine weeks, the seizures seemed to

vanish. We are currently decreasing his dose of Depakote to see what

happens. From one mom who tried it--just proceed with caution. Make sure you

have a physician involved. Vitamin A toxicity isn't anything to play around

with. We are getting our bloodwork drawn next week--I'm very excited

about Dr. Goldberg's ideas--something which finally seems to be based on

sound, medical practice!

Just thoughts from a parent who's been there--good luck to you and your

child.

Here is Dr. Goldberg's reply...

Dear Traci,

I very much appreciate your post and insight. Unfortunately, not enough will

be exposed to this information to stop the ³new² risky ³cure of the month²

supported by many out there. HOW many incidents like this have been

discussed or published in the various ³Autism² newsletters you all receive,

or on Internet distribution lists. Unfortunately, ³negative,² some very

negative experiences or not rare anymore. My wife listens to me scream and

yell nightly at how many children are likely being hurt ³iatrogenically² by

the usage of Secretin, steroids, Vitamin A and Urocholine, high dose Vitamin

B, unsafe supplements including ³bovine² animal part extracts (unfortunately

in the world we live, a potential risk of PRION diseases depending upon

processing handling, etc.). ³PRION² time bombs in many children receiving

Secretin has become unacceptable (it always should have been) as NO

controlled studies are showing any significant or consistent gains. I

understand (??) even the manufacturer is backing off in funding efforts /

support.

MJG

[Guest guest]

Jon,

Thanks for your post. I appreciate your input into this group... wish I had

the medical knowledge that you do to understand more of the technical

research postings.

By the way, sorry I posted twice... I'm not quite sure what happened there.

Caroline

[Guest guest]

Jon dont mind me writing but i am not sure if i have

got the right Jon?

I emailedyou in June i think. i live in the UK and the

Jon i wrote to lived in Jersey He had an 11year old

son. just wanted to know how you are getting on?

Sorry if it is the wrong Jon

--- Jon <jerseybean@...> wrote:

<HR>

<html><body>

<tt>

Thanks for that Caroline,<BR>

<BR>

Though I have looked into this, I have not done so

nearly as much as Adam (owner of Equazen/maker of

Eye-Q oil) has done. I shall use a response he sent to

another list about this same subject. What you have

read would be enough to worry anyone, though it is not

clear if urecholine was continued despite seizures,

the Depakote would have been expected to do something

even without withdrawal of CLO wouldn't you think?<BR>

<BR>

Jon.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

<BR>

I would like to contribute to this forum as my

company, Equazen, <BR>

specialises in omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, and is

the <BR>

manufacturer of eye q. <BR>

<BR>

We have looked very closely at possible linkages

between fatty acids <BR>

and epilepsy, and have found no evidence of either the

Omega-3 or <BR>

Omega-6 components of eye q being in any way

responsible for seizures.<BR>

<BR>

About 80 percent of the capsules are Omega-3 fish oil,

for which <BR>

there is clearly no linkage, essentially because of

our understanding <BR>

of how this functions physiologically. The Omega-3

elements generally <BR>

have a calming effect, attributed mainly to the role

of anti-<BR>

inflammatory prostaglandins. In fact, we do get

reports from parents <BR>

of epileptic children who say there have been no

seizures since <BR>

taking eye q. But this information remains anecdotal

and is not <BR>

supported by any trial data. It may just be

coincidental.<BR>

<BR>

The main area of concern has come from queries about

the lesser Omega-<BR>

6 component, evening primrose oil, which comprises

about 20 percent <BR>

of the capsule. We have looked extensively at all

available trial <BR>

data, and cannot find any evidence to support warnings

about epilepsy <BR>

still seen on many packs of evening primrose oil. This

assertion <BR>

appears to be based on a 1988 FDA directive that was

based on <BR>

concerns about a trial in Sweden in which EPO was used

on a group of <BR>

24 psychiatric patients, of whom three had seizures. A

closer <BR>

evaluation of the trial results indicated that EPO had

been wrongly <BR>

attributed for causing these seizures: in fact, the

cause seemed to <BR>

be the side effects of a course of neuroleptic drugs

that they were <BR>

on.<BR>

<BR>

Hence the FDA, as do all medical authorities, regard

EPO as a safe <BR>

dietary supplement. But this fact seems to have been

missed by those <BR>

manufacturers that still carry the warning on many

labels. Perhaps <BR>

they just have not really bothered to look closely and

clarify the <BR>

issue, when EPO is just one product within a wider

range. But as this <BR>

is our specialty, we have to make it our business to

know. And the <BR>

fact remains that 1000s of tons of EPO are consumed

around the world <BR>

and there does not seem to be any sign that this mass

OTC product has <BR>

caused seizures. As with fish oil, there does not

appear to be any <BR>

physiological mechanism here that would explain why

EPO would trigger <BR>

epilepsy. So perhaps that is why there is zero trial

data to support <BR>

this urban myth.<BR>

<BR>

Whenever I do get an inquiry on this issue, I always

bounce it back <BR>

to whoever asks, and request that they give me any

information of any <BR>

sort in which it seems, even anecdotally, that EPO has

caused <BR>

seizures. So far, I have not had any reply: maybe I

will be proved <BR>

wrong today!<BR>

<BR>

Kind regards<BR>

<BR>

Adam Kelliher <BR>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; Re: cod liver oil<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; On 10/5/02 12:13 PM, & quot;Jon & quot;

& lt;jerseybean@... & gt; wrote:<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; & gt; CLO has no association with seizures, EPO

has been suggested to have but the<BR>

& nbsp; & gt; evidence isn't there for that either.<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; Jon,<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; I don't know much about CLO myself... I'm

merely repeating what I think I<BR>

& nbsp; heard (or rather saw, as it was on a

chat). & nbsp; If you are interested, why not<BR>

& nbsp; post a question to & quot;Ask Dr. Goldberg & quot;

on his website and maybe he could<BR>

& nbsp; explain what he meant. & nbsp; If believes there

is some association there, it<BR>

& nbsp; certainly wouldn't hurt to hear his

views. & nbsp; I went through and searched that<BR>

& nbsp; section and it seems as though he did not used

to be quite so opposed to<BR>

& nbsp; CLO, but maybe has become more so over time...

I'm not quite sure.<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; I found this OLD post in the & quot;Ask Dr.

Goldberg & quot; section. & nbsp; I'm not sure if<BR>

& nbsp; this was one of the events he was referring to

or not, and clearly it is not<BR>

& nbsp; a & quot;clinical trial & quot; type of proof (and

it seems to have happened in<BR>

& nbsp; conjunction with the urecholine), but thought

you might be interested to<BR>

& nbsp; read it...<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; From & quot;Traci & quot;<BR>

& nbsp; Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 04:14 AM<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; A note of caution on Vitamin A treatments--we

used this protocol with my<BR>

& nbsp; five year old son, under the guidance of his

physician.<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; While did very well for the first three

months, one month after we<BR>

& nbsp; added the urecholine, he suddenly developed a

seizure disorder, which<BR>

& nbsp; escalated from absent seizures to two episodes

of Grand Mal seizures. While<BR>

& nbsp; I can't say for certain it was the CLO that did

it, I can say that after<BR>

& nbsp; had been off the CLO for about nine

weeks, the seizures seemed to<BR>

& nbsp; vanish. We are currently decreasing his dose of

Depakote to see what<BR>

& nbsp; happens. From one mom who tried it--just

proceed with caution. Make sure you<BR>

& nbsp; have a physician involved. Vitamin A toxicity

isn't anything to play around<BR>

& nbsp; with. We are getting our bloodwork drawn

next week--I'm very excited<BR>

& nbsp; about Dr. Goldberg's ideas--something which

finally seems to be based on<BR>

& nbsp; sound, medical practice!<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; Just thoughts from a parent who's been

there--good luck to you and your<BR>

& nbsp; child.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; Here is Dr. Goldberg's reply...<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; Dear Traci,<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; I very much appreciate your post and insight.

Unfortunately, not enough will<BR>

& nbsp; be exposed to this information to stop the

³new² risky ³cure of the month²<BR>

& nbsp; supported by many out there. HOW many incidents

like this have been<BR>

& nbsp; discussed or published in the various ³Autism²

newsletters you all receive,<BR>

& nbsp; or on Internet distribution lists.

Unfortunately, ³negative,² some very<BR>

& nbsp; negative experiences or not rare anymore. My

wife listens to me scream and<BR>

& nbsp; yell nightly at how many children are likely

being hurt ³iatrogenically² by<BR>

& nbsp; the usage of Secretin, steroids, Vitamin A and

Urocholine, high dose Vitamin<BR>

& nbsp; B, unsafe supplements including ³bovine² animal

part extracts (unfortunately<BR>

& nbsp; in the world we live, a potential risk of PRION

diseases depending upon<BR>

& nbsp; processing handling, etc.). ³PRION² time bombs

in many children receiving<BR>

& nbsp; Secretin has become unacceptable (it always

should have been) as NO<BR>

& nbsp; controlled studies are showing any significant

or consistent gains. I<BR>

& nbsp; understand (??) even the manufacturer is

backing off in funding efforts /<BR>

& nbsp; support. <BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; MJG<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp;

Groups Sponsor <BR>

& nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp;

ADVERTISEMENT<BR>

& nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp;

<BR>

& nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; <BR>

& nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; <BR>

<BR>

& nbsp; Responsibility for the content of this message

lies strictly with <BR>

& nbsp; the original author, and is not necessarily

endorsed by or the <BR>

& nbsp; opinion of the Research Institute.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

& nbsp;

[Guest guest]

Take it with butter oil. That is how Weston Price did it. He noted that

both were far more effective taken in combo. And yes I believe the

butter oil acts as a protective factor for the fish oil.

It Really Was The People's Car

http://tinyurl.com/mwbv

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:13:10 -0000

" Daphne Blumenthal " <biophile410@...> wrote:

>Does it make sense to take CLO with a vitamin E supplement (thorne)?

>

>Do I need to worry about oxidation of the pufa & free radicals, and

>does taking it with E help that issue?

>

>We get carlson's and refrigerate but it lasts months.

>

>Thx,

>Daphne

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>Does it make sense to take CLO with a vitamin E supplement (thorne)?

---->yes.

>>>>Do I need to worry about oxidation of the pufa & free radicals, and

does taking it with E help that issue?

----->yes. lipid peroxidation typically depletes vitamin E stores, so it's

good to keep them replenished. I always take vitamin E with CLO, but i take

it in the form of wheatgerm oil from standard process. i think either

" unique E " or wheatgerm oil are better than just d-alpha tocopherol or mixed

tocopherols, because they contain the complete complex of tocotrienols and

tocopherols that make up the whole vitamin E compound.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

I'm not disputing anything said here but will point out that vitamin D is an

antioxidant, so the issue is not as bad as with fish oil.

Also, wheat germ oil does not contain the full spectrum of tocotrienols-- it

contains miniscule quantities of alpha and beta tocotrienols, and does not

contain gamma and delta tocotrienols at all. On the other hand, red palm oil is

very, very high in all of the tocotrienols. Additionally, red palm oil can be

used as a food rather than a supplement, displacing other fats, is safe to do

light cooking with, because it is high in saturated fat and has virtually no

pufa, and contains about 65% of the total vitamin E that wheat germ oil does.

IOW, I don't see any reason at all to consume wheat germ oil.

Let's not forget butter. It's vitamin E content is not high, but there is

some, but the saturated fats are necessary for protection of the PUFA as much as

the E is, and there are some studies that have found butter to be necessary

for effective utilization of the n-3s.

Chris

Chris

In a message dated 9/21/03 7:36:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ---->yes.

>

> >>>>Do I need to worry about oxidation of the pufa & free radicals, and

> does taking it with E help that issue?

>

> ----->yes. lipid peroxidation typically depletes vitamin E stores, so it's

> good to keep them replenished. I always take vitamin E with CLO, but i take

> it in the form of wheatgerm oil from standard process. i think either

> " unique E " or wheatgerm oil are better than just d-alpha tocopherol or mixed

> tocopherols, because they contain the complete complex of tocotrienols and

> tocopherols that make up the whole vitamin E compound.