Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 >PLEASE don't go away from here to have your discussions. I read you all every day and while I don't understand much of what you are talking about and or don't have that item as a concern, I would miss something I'm sure if you talk elsewhere...sincerely, > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: jwwright@... > >Subject: Re: [ ] Re: BMI and IHD >Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:46:01 -0500 > >>I've had 2 catheterizations, one in 1986, another in 2002, both were > " clear " . >>Here, if that weren't the case, the dr would have done a stent or >something, (while the patient is prepped). The second one they woke >me up to show me the display which was a computer diagram which told >me naught. The first was an actual x-ray type screen. >> >>My 82 yo bro has CHF, which I take to be fat in the cells or small >capillaries, that can't be fixed anyway. The electrical problem in >his case is skipped beats (erratic heart beat). >> >>I can understand not giving an expensive test to everyone, but I >also think I can err on the side of moderation and not take up >running, eg. >> >>Obviously something causes my HTN, which is why I keep trying to >learn as much as possible. But I don't think I have athero, at least >it's not obvious in my legs or circ. >> >>If they can get a test down to say 100$, they might sell enough of >them to justify the cost (without a prescription) and the patient >could pay for it. >> >>Reading list is a great idea, thanks. >> >>Regards. >> >> [ ] Re: BMI and IHD >> >> >> --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@...> >wrote: >> > >> > You sold me, Mike. Thanks for the ref. >> > The next question is what do I tell the dr in order to justify >the >> test? >> > Especially after we've done the cath. >> > It always comes down to the practical alternatives. >> > >> > Regards. >> >> Have you actually had a cath? According to Gould (there I go >> again), " ...coronary arteriograms may appear normal in the >presence of >> diffuse atherosclerosis without significant segmental narrowing. >This >> unidentified diffuse disease may result in plaque rupture and >heart >> attack despite the normal-appearing coronary arteriograms. " >> >> Incidentally, I was at www.alibris.com(my favorie used book site) >and >> noticed used copies of Gould's book are $2.95. Plus postage, of >course. >> >> The problem with getting a PET scanning is that insurance >companies >> may balk. The gold standard may be dross , but it's still the >gold >> standard. PET is expensive. I don't now if this new 64-slice >machine >> is any cheaper but the images it produces are fantastic and seem >to >> unambiguosly show CAD. Check out some of them here: >> >> >http://images.google.com/images?q=64+slice & hl=en & btnG=Search+Images >> >> Here's a suggestion. This is an interesting topic for many of us, >but >> maybe not to others. How about if we agree on a reading list and >> really delve into the topic offline? This would include material >on, >> say, the value a carotid artery sonogram, as a predictor of CAD, >and >> thus, IHD and SCD. >> >> I agree with Rodney's points in an earler post. It seems >astonishing >> that as a nation, we haven't pursued CHD diagnostics more >vigorously, >> especially given the huge costs we incur due to IHD. As usual, we >are >> left to fend for ourselves. >> >> Mike >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 jwwright wrote: > > I can understand not giving an expensive test to everyone, but I also > think I can err on the side of moderation and not take up running, eg. > > > > Regards. > Hi JW... I'm posting here for convenience but I have some thoughts on the general subject of running wrt health risk/benefit. Allow me to preface my comments by acknowledging a probable bias in favor as a long time runner. AFAIK, there isn't a box on death certificates to check that states " cause of death " was running. True it is a stress to the system and many circulatory failures can be precipitated by physical stress but that doesn't even remotely mean the individual might not have died within days anyhow while having sex or while arguing with somebody that cut in line ahead of him at the market checkout line. I suspect running, or more broadly aerobic exercise, is another of those double edged swords... too much or not enough could be bad for you. I doubt that exercise alone could ever be wholly protective against other imbalances. In line with the hormetic dose dependent benefits from toxins or other stressors I suspect exercise in modest amounts, for an individual that isn't already under excessive stress working similar pathways, could be beneficial. There may be similarities to the beneficial stresses of exercise and CR that would suggest optimal amounts of exercise for energy restricted individuals would be lower. Regarding the health advocate who had a heart attack immediately after running, the running may have impacted what time of day he had his heart attack while not being causal. If his body was already heavily stressed by some other imbalance, perhaps the stress of exercise was additive and exceeded a healthy threshold, becoming contributory. We all need to consider our personal risk/benefit but I would not dismiss aerobic exercise in moderation. JR PS: JW a little side note about on of your favorite topics (Salt). With the recent run of hot weather I had to start dosing with salt when I started to get cramping again (I don't need to supplement during winter months). I rarely pay much attention to the %BF on my tanita but I did notice between Wednesday and today my #BF dropped from 14%+ to 12%+ while my weight varied less than 1/2 #. Over the last few days I probably consumed an extra 3+ G of salt (mixed in water). Since the tanita works on electrical conduction this seems like one of several potential error sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 jwwright wrote: > > I can understand not giving an expensive test to everyone, but I also > think I can err on the side of moderation and not take up running, eg. > > > > Regards. > Hi JW... I'm posting here for convenience but I have some thoughts on the general subject of running wrt health risk/benefit. Allow me to preface my comments by acknowledging a probable bias in favor as a long time runner. AFAIK, there isn't a box on death certificates to check that states " cause of death " was running. True it is a stress to the system and many circulatory failures can be precipitated by physical stress but that doesn't even remotely mean the individual might not have died within days anyhow while having sex or while arguing with somebody that cut in line ahead of him at the market checkout line. I suspect running, or more broadly aerobic exercise, is another of those double edged swords... too much or not enough could be bad for you. I doubt that exercise alone could ever be wholly protective against other imbalances. In line with the hormetic dose dependent benefits from toxins or other stressors I suspect exercise in modest amounts, for an individual that isn't already under excessive stress working similar pathways, could be beneficial. There may be similarities to the beneficial stresses of exercise and CR that would suggest optimal amounts of exercise for energy restricted individuals would be lower. Regarding the health advocate who had a heart attack immediately after running, the running may have impacted what time of day he had his heart attack while not being causal. If his body was already heavily stressed by some other imbalance, perhaps the stress of exercise was additive and exceeded a healthy threshold, becoming contributory. We all need to consider our personal risk/benefit but I would not dismiss aerobic exercise in moderation. JR PS: JW a little side note about on of your favorite topics (Salt). With the recent run of hot weather I had to start dosing with salt when I started to get cramping again (I don't need to supplement during winter months). I rarely pay much attention to the %BF on my tanita but I did notice between Wednesday and today my #BF dropped from 14%+ to 12%+ while my weight varied less than 1/2 #. Over the last few days I probably consumed an extra 3+ G of salt (mixed in water). Since the tanita works on electrical conduction this seems like one of several potential error sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 >>>I am told that a carotid IMT test here costs only $80. (Perhaps double that where you are?) It seems to me that everyone should have one. But haven't had one done myself yet. I will discuss it first with a radiologist I meet socially a couple of times a year ......... and will pass on what he says, whenever that turns out to be. we do the IMT here and have been for several years. There are several forms of the IMT out there and there are different ways of obtaining the data (doing the scan) and also in interpreting it and there is no standardization as of now that I know of. We work with Jaques Barth, who is out of S CA and had a lot to do with the development of this test and or course, says his method is far above and beyond everyone elses out there. yet, I am still not happy with the results and the inconsistencies I see. So, it may be worthwhile to get, but I wouldnt hang my hat on the results. Maybe in a few more years when they better standardize the methods and the analysis jeff Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 >>>I am told that a carotid IMT test here costs only $80. (Perhaps double that where you are?) It seems to me that everyone should have one. But haven't had one done myself yet. I will discuss it first with a radiologist I meet socially a couple of times a year ......... and will pass on what he says, whenever that turns out to be. we do the IMT here and have been for several years. There are several forms of the IMT out there and there are different ways of obtaining the data (doing the scan) and also in interpreting it and there is no standardization as of now that I know of. We work with Jaques Barth, who is out of S CA and had a lot to do with the development of this test and or course, says his method is far above and beyond everyone elses out there. yet, I am still not happy with the results and the inconsistencies I see. So, it may be worthwhile to get, but I wouldnt hang my hat on the results. Maybe in a few more years when they better standardize the methods and the analysis jeff Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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