Re: Americans More Ill than the English

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I've been reading this list for a few weeks, and really enjoy it. This is an

interesting article. Here I sit, an American in England, and I see a lot of

bias in this reporting. From what I see everyday, the UK, like France,

" looks " healthier when compared to the US because of their socialized health

care system. Yes, it's free to all, but it is so deep in bureaucracy that it

becomes self-exclusive.

Basically, it takes ages to see a surgeon (general practitioner), and I mean

ages. I received my National Health Care card in January and am still on the

list to get just a basic physical and my surgeon is 20 minutes away. I am

told it will probably not happen until the late Fall. So many, many people,

weall-off and poor, don't go to the doctor until they're in a real

emergency. Some people have waited as long at 7 years for operations that

would take maybe three weeks to schedule in the US, tops? Forget getting

referred to a specialist. Average Brits can't really afford the time off

from work to see a doctor, so reports on their health issues may seem lower.

The NHS is in major crisis financially, in that while there is plenty of

cash, there's been a great deal of mismanagement. Hospitals are closing,

nurses, NURSES, the most sought-after resource on the planet at the moment,

are being fired to cut costs. The Health Secretary was just booed by the

School of Nurses during a public address. wDentists have also been cut back

and many are dropping national care for private practice, which few Brits

can afford. Things aren't dire, the English are wealthy and will survive,

but I can't stomach the perception that they are healthier than the US.

There's plenty of super-sized folks here and they are growing, as the people

are serious about binge drinking and smoking. Not a strong comparative model

by any means.

I know this group only values clinical study, but the articles' bias was so

blantant, I felt compelled to comment on the day-to-day experience. I

sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

Ash

>From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Americans " More Ill than the English "

>Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:19:29 -0000

>

>Food for thought:

>

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4965034.stm

>

>Rodney.

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

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[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I've been reading this list for a few weeks, and really enjoy it. This is an

interesting article. Here I sit, an American in England, and I see a lot of

bias in this reporting. From what I see everyday, the UK, like France,

" looks " healthier when compared to the US because of their socialized health

care system. Yes, it's free to all, but it is so deep in bureaucracy that it

becomes self-exclusive.

Basically, it takes ages to see a surgeon (general practitioner), and I mean

ages. I received my National Health Care card in January and am still on the

list to get just a basic physical and my surgeon is 20 minutes away. I am

told it will probably not happen until the late Fall. So many, many people,

weall-off and poor, don't go to the doctor until they're in a real

emergency. Some people have waited as long at 7 years for operations that

would take maybe three weeks to schedule in the US, tops? Forget getting

referred to a specialist. Average Brits can't really afford the time off

from work to see a doctor, so reports on their health issues may seem lower.

The NHS is in major crisis financially, in that while there is plenty of

cash, there's been a great deal of mismanagement. Hospitals are closing,

nurses, NURSES, the most sought-after resource on the planet at the moment,

are being fired to cut costs. The Health Secretary was just booed by the

School of Nurses during a public address. wDentists have also been cut back

and many are dropping national care for private practice, which few Brits

can afford. Things aren't dire, the English are wealthy and will survive,

but I can't stomach the perception that they are healthier than the US.

There's plenty of super-sized folks here and they are growing, as the people

are serious about binge drinking and smoking. Not a strong comparative model

by any means.

I know this group only values clinical study, but the articles' bias was so

blantant, I felt compelled to comment on the day-to-day experience. I

sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

Ash

>From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Americans " More Ill than the English "

>Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:19:29 -0000

>

>Food for thought:

>

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4965034.stm

>

>Rodney.

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Hi Ash:

I doubt you offended anyone, but do you have a reason to suppose that

the Rand organization - the US arm of that study - has some strong

reason to ruin their reputation for objectivity by putting their

name, jointly, to a paper that provides data which show DOUBLE the

rate in the US among comparable people for diabetes, lung cancer,

etc..

Your rant about the UK national health system no doubt is entirely

accurate. But the points you make seem to me to be a nearly

irrelevant response to the data for disease incidence quoted in that

article.

Do you have reason to believe the disease incidence data that were

quoted are mistaken?

Rodney.

>

> Hi there,

>

> I've been reading this list for a few weeks, and really enjoy it.

This is an

> interesting article. Here I sit, an American in England, and I see

a lot of

> bias in this reporting. From what I see everyday, the UK, like

France,

> " looks " healthier when compared to the US because of their

socialized health

> care system. Yes, it's free to all, but it is so deep in

bureaucracy that it

> becomes self-exclusive.

>

> Basically, it takes ages to see a surgeon (general practitioner),

and I mean

> ages. I received my National Health Care card in January and am

still on the

> list to get just a basic physical and my surgeon is 20 minutes

away. I am

> told it will probably not happen until the late Fall. So many, many

people,

> weall-off and poor, don't go to the doctor until they're in a real

> emergency. Some people have waited as long at 7 years for

operations that

> would take maybe three weeks to schedule in the US, tops? Forget

getting

> referred to a specialist. Average Brits can't really afford the

time off

> from work to see a doctor, so reports on their health issues may

seem lower.

>

> The NHS is in major crisis financially, in that while there is

plenty of

> cash, there's been a great deal of mismanagement. Hospitals are

closing,

> nurses, NURSES, the most sought-after resource on the planet at the

moment,

> are being fired to cut costs. The Health Secretary was just booed

by the

> School of Nurses during a public address. wDentists have also been

cut back

> and many are dropping national care for private practice, which few

Brits

> can afford. Things aren't dire, the English are wealthy and will

survive,

> but I can't stomach the perception that they are healthier than the

US.

> There's plenty of super-sized folks here and they are growing, as

the people

> are serious about binge drinking and smoking. Not a strong

comparative model

> by any means.

>

> I know this group only values clinical study, but the articles'

bias was so

> blantant, I felt compelled to comment on the day-to-day experience.

I

> sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

>

> Ash

>

>

> >From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: [ ] Americans " More Ill than the English "

> >Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:19:29 -0000

> >

> >Food for thought:

> >

> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4965034.stm

> >

> >Rodney.

> >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

it's FREE!

> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ash:

I doubt you offended anyone, but do you have a reason to suppose that

the Rand organization - the US arm of that study - has some strong

reason to ruin their reputation for objectivity by putting their

name, jointly, to a paper that provides data which show DOUBLE the

rate in the US among comparable people for diabetes, lung cancer,

etc..

Your rant about the UK national health system no doubt is entirely

accurate. But the points you make seem to me to be a nearly

irrelevant response to the data for disease incidence quoted in that

article.

Do you have reason to believe the disease incidence data that were

quoted are mistaken?

Rodney.

>

> Hi there,

>

> I've been reading this list for a few weeks, and really enjoy it.

This is an

> interesting article. Here I sit, an American in England, and I see

a lot of

> bias in this reporting. From what I see everyday, the UK, like

France,

> " looks " healthier when compared to the US because of their

socialized health

> care system. Yes, it's free to all, but it is so deep in

bureaucracy that it

> becomes self-exclusive.

>

> Basically, it takes ages to see a surgeon (general practitioner),

and I mean

> ages. I received my National Health Care card in January and am

still on the

> list to get just a basic physical and my surgeon is 20 minutes

away. I am

> told it will probably not happen until the late Fall. So many, many

people,

> weall-off and poor, don't go to the doctor until they're in a real

> emergency. Some people have waited as long at 7 years for

operations that

> would take maybe three weeks to schedule in the US, tops? Forget

getting

> referred to a specialist. Average Brits can't really afford the

time off

> from work to see a doctor, so reports on their health issues may

seem lower.

>

> The NHS is in major crisis financially, in that while there is

plenty of

> cash, there's been a great deal of mismanagement. Hospitals are

closing,

> nurses, NURSES, the most sought-after resource on the planet at the

moment,

> are being fired to cut costs. The Health Secretary was just booed

by the

> School of Nurses during a public address. wDentists have also been

cut back

> and many are dropping national care for private practice, which few

Brits

> can afford. Things aren't dire, the English are wealthy and will

survive,

> but I can't stomach the perception that they are healthier than the

US.

> There's plenty of super-sized folks here and they are growing, as

the people

> are serious about binge drinking and smoking. Not a strong

comparative model

> by any means.

>

> I know this group only values clinical study, but the articles'

bias was so

> blantant, I felt compelled to comment on the day-to-day experience.

I

> sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

>

> Ash

>

>

> >From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: [ ] Americans " More Ill than the English "

> >Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:19:29 -0000

> >

> >Food for thought:

> >

> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4965034.stm

> >

> >Rodney.

> >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

it's FREE!

> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>

[Guest guest]

The reports that the health of Americans is worse than the English

looked only at medical care and life style. The researchers could not

find an explanation for the health differences. What I have not seen

mentioned in any of the reports is a comparison of the basic foods

eaten by both groups. It would not be surprising if the worse

American health is due to the increased consumption of hydrogenated

fats and drinks with high-fructose corn syrup. Both of these synthetic

ingredients are so prevalent in American manufactured foods that they

are almost unavoidable.

Tony

[Guest guest]

The reports that the health of Americans is worse than the English

looked only at medical care and life style. The researchers could not

find an explanation for the health differences. What I have not seen

mentioned in any of the reports is a comparison of the basic foods

eaten by both groups. It would not be surprising if the worse

American health is due to the increased consumption of hydrogenated

fats and drinks with high-fructose corn syrup. Both of these synthetic

ingredients are so prevalent in American manufactured foods that they

are almost unavoidable.

Tony

[Guest guest]

Hi Ash:

As you can see here:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=168

life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2004 was 81 years for females,

and 77 for males.

In the US in 2003 - the latest data available I believe - it was

slightly lower for females ....... 80.1 years; and a bit more than

two years lower for males ......... 74.8:

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lifexpec.htm

So the better rates of disease in the UK noted by that article are

reflected in the life expectancy data, but only to the extent of a

couple of years. Perhaps your impression about how dreadful things

are in the UK is somewhat exaggerated?

Rodney.

> > >

> > > Hi there,

> > >

> > > I've been reading this list for a few weeks, and really enjoy

it.

> >This is an

> > > interesting article. Here I sit, an American in England, and I

see

> >a lot of

> > > bias in this reporting. From what I see everyday, the UK, like

> >France,

> > > " looks " healthier when compared to the US because of their

> >socialized health

> > > care system. Yes, it's free to all, but it is so deep in

> >bureaucracy that it

> > > becomes self-exclusive.

> > >

> > > Basically, it takes ages to see a surgeon (general

practitioner),

> >and I mean

> > > ages. I received my National Health Care card in January and am

> >still on the

> > > list to get just a basic physical and my surgeon is 20 minutes

> >away. I am

> > > told it will probably not happen until the late Fall. So many,

many

> >people,

> > > weall-off and poor, don't go to the doctor until they're in a

real

> > > emergency. Some people have waited as long at 7 years for

> >operations that

> > > would take maybe three weeks to schedule in the US, tops? Forget

> >getting

> > > referred to a specialist. Average Brits can't really afford the

> >time off

> > > from work to see a doctor, so reports on their health issues may

> >seem lower.

> > >

> > > The NHS is in major crisis financially, in that while there is

> >plenty of

> > > cash, there's been a great deal of mismanagement. Hospitals are

> >closing,

> > > nurses, NURSES, the most sought-after resource on the planet at

the

> >moment,

> > > are being fired to cut costs. The Health Secretary was just

booed

> >by the

> > > School of Nurses during a public address. wDentists have also

been

> >cut back

> > > and many are dropping national care for private practice, which

few

> >Brits

> > > can afford. Things aren't dire, the English are wealthy and will

> >survive,

> > > but I can't stomach the perception that they are healthier than

the

> >US.

> > > There's plenty of super-sized folks here and they are growing,

as

> >the people

> > > are serious about binge drinking and smoking. Not a strong

> >comparative model

> > > by any means.

> > >

> > > I know this group only values clinical study, but the articles'

> >bias was so

> > > blantant, I felt compelled to comment on the day-to-day

experience.

> >I

> > > sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

> > >

> > > Ash

> > >

> > >

> > > >From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@>

> > > >Reply-

> > > >

> > > >Subject: [ ] Americans " More Ill than the English "

> > > >Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:19:29 -0000

> > > >

> > > >Food for thought:

> > > >

> > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4965034.stm

> > > >

> > > >Rodney.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

> >it's FREE!

> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ash:

As you can see here:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=168

life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2004 was 81 years for females,

and 77 for males.

In the US in 2003 - the latest data available I believe - it was

slightly lower for females ....... 80.1 years; and a bit more than

two years lower for males ......... 74.8:

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lifexpec.htm

So the better rates of disease in the UK noted by that article are

reflected in the life expectancy data, but only to the extent of a

couple of years. Perhaps your impression about how dreadful things

are in the UK is somewhat exaggerated?

Rodney.

> > >

> > > Hi there,

> > >

> > > I've been reading this list for a few weeks, and really enjoy

it.

> >This is an

> > > interesting article. Here I sit, an American in England, and I

see

> >a lot of

> > > bias in this reporting. From what I see everyday, the UK, like

> >France,

> > > " looks " healthier when compared to the US because of their

> >socialized health

> > > care system. Yes, it's free to all, but it is so deep in

> >bureaucracy that it

> > > becomes self-exclusive.

> > >

> > > Basically, it takes ages to see a surgeon (general

practitioner),

> >and I mean

> > > ages. I received my National Health Care card in January and am

> >still on the

> > > list to get just a basic physical and my surgeon is 20 minutes

> >away. I am

> > > told it will probably not happen until the late Fall. So many,

many

> >people,

> > > weall-off and poor, don't go to the doctor until they're in a

real

> > > emergency. Some people have waited as long at 7 years for

> >operations that

> > > would take maybe three weeks to schedule in the US, tops? Forget

> >getting

> > > referred to a specialist. Average Brits can't really afford the

> >time off

> > > from work to see a doctor, so reports on their health issues may

> >seem lower.

> > >

> > > The NHS is in major crisis financially, in that while there is

> >plenty of

> > > cash, there's been a great deal of mismanagement. Hospitals are

> >closing,

> > > nurses, NURSES, the most sought-after resource on the planet at

the

> >moment,

> > > are being fired to cut costs. The Health Secretary was just

booed

> >by the

> > > School of Nurses during a public address. wDentists have also

been

> >cut back

> > > and many are dropping national care for private practice, which

few

> >Brits

> > > can afford. Things aren't dire, the English are wealthy and will

> >survive,

> > > but I can't stomach the perception that they are healthier than

the

> >US.

> > > There's plenty of super-sized folks here and they are growing,

as

> >the people

> > > are serious about binge drinking and smoking. Not a strong

> >comparative model

> > > by any means.

> > >

> > > I know this group only values clinical study, but the articles'

> >bias was so

> > > blantant, I felt compelled to comment on the day-to-day

experience.

> >I

> > > sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

> > >

> > > Ash

> > >

> > >

> > > >From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@>

> > > >Reply-

> > > >

> > > >Subject: [ ] Americans " More Ill than the English "

> > > >Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:19:29 -0000

> > > >

> > > >Food for thought:

> > > >

> > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4965034.stm

> > > >

> > > >Rodney.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

> >it's FREE!

> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Maco:

A source for your data below would be interesting, please!

Also consider the following, folks. The world survey of health

expenditures, linked below, found that, in the latest year they

surveyed, 1996, the US spent 2.89 TIMES AS MUCH PER CAPITA on health

than the UK did, yet the people live less long in the US than in the

UK:

www.who.int/docstore/bulletin/ pdf/2000/issue6/bu0585.pdf

That is a pretty stunning commentary on the US health system, imo.

Rodney.

Maco wrote:

> Also, consider these:

> (this is my last off-topic post on this subject)

> for the US:

> Death rate:

> 8.26 deaths/1,000 population (2006 est.)

> for the Brits:

> Death rate:

> 10.13 deaths/1,000 population (2006 est.)

> Maco

[Guest guest]

Hi Maco:

A source for your data below would be interesting, please!

Also consider the following, folks. The world survey of health

expenditures, linked below, found that, in the latest year they

surveyed, 1996, the US spent 2.89 TIMES AS MUCH PER CAPITA on health

than the UK did, yet the people live less long in the US than in the

UK:

www.who.int/docstore/bulletin/ pdf/2000/issue6/bu0585.pdf

That is a pretty stunning commentary on the US health system, imo.

Rodney.

Maco wrote:

> Also, consider these:

> (this is my last off-topic post on this subject)

> for the US:

> Death rate:

> 8.26 deaths/1,000 population (2006 est.)

> for the Brits:

> Death rate:

> 10.13 deaths/1,000 population (2006 est.)

> Maco