Re: Re: Ketones vs Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis

[Guest guest]

I don't remember any such link. Can you summarize what that was about? I googled around and couldn't find anything.

on 5/3/2006 5:06 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

Also about a

year ago I posted a link indicating that very large quantities of

sweet potatoes was in some way related to neurologic problems.

[Guest guest]

I don't remember any such link. Can you summarize what that was about? I googled around and couldn't find anything.

on 5/3/2006 5:06 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

Also about a

year ago I posted a link indicating that very large quantities of

sweet potatoes was in some way related to neurologic problems.

[Guest guest]

Rodney wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> Although the full text is supposed to be free, I haven't been able to

> locate it.

>

> Does anyone know what the foods are that are ketogenic when eaten in

> large quantities?

>

> Lack of oxygen (hypoxia) was a problem in Biosphere. Also about a

> year ago I posted a link indicating that very large quantities of

> sweet potatoes was in some way related to neurologic problems.

>

> It looks like Dr. Walford may have been the unfortunate victim of the

> confluence of a number of different phenomena.

>

> Rodney.

>

The original Atkins diet was Ketogenic, and the later version was

Ketogenic during it's " initiation " stage.

Basically, it's a very low (like no) carbohydrate diet. After the body

runs out of stored glycogen it shifts to burning fat to make ketones as

a substitute for sugar to keep the brain powered up. Apparently the

brain is pretty happy, burning ketones and it's reported to reduce

epileptic seizures.

So you can eat tons of calories worth of fatty meats, and as long as you

lay off any carbs, you can still be in Ketosis.

JR

[Guest guest]

Rodney wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> Although the full text is supposed to be free, I haven't been able to

> locate it.

>

> Does anyone know what the foods are that are ketogenic when eaten in

> large quantities?

>

> Lack of oxygen (hypoxia) was a problem in Biosphere. Also about a

> year ago I posted a link indicating that very large quantities of

> sweet potatoes was in some way related to neurologic problems.

>

> It looks like Dr. Walford may have been the unfortunate victim of the

> confluence of a number of different phenomena.

>

> Rodney.

>

The original Atkins diet was Ketogenic, and the later version was

Ketogenic during it's " initiation " stage.

Basically, it's a very low (like no) carbohydrate diet. After the body

runs out of stored glycogen it shifts to burning fat to make ketones as

a substitute for sugar to keep the brain powered up. Apparently the

brain is pretty happy, burning ketones and it's reported to reduce

epileptic seizures.

So you can eat tons of calories worth of fatty meats, and as long as you

lay off any carbs, you can still be in Ketosis.

JR

[Guest guest]

At 11:14 PM 5/3/2006, you wrote:

>The original Atkins diet was Ketogenic, and the later version was

>Ketogenic during it's " initiation " stage.

>

>Basically, it's a very low (like no) carbohydrate diet. After the body

>runs out of stored glycogen it shifts to burning fat to make ketones as

>a substitute for sugar to keep the brain powered up. Apparently the

>brain is pretty happy, burning ketones and it's reported to reduce

>epileptic seizures.

>

>So you can eat tons of calories worth of fatty meats, and as long as you

>lay off any carbs, you can still be in Ketosis.

>

> JR

Ketogenic diets have neurological effects. They are an accepted

treatment for childhood epilepsy... The ketogenic diet works in many cases

where drugs fail:

http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/answerplace/Medical/treatment/diet/

[Guest guest]

At 11:14 PM 5/3/2006, you wrote:

>The original Atkins diet was Ketogenic, and the later version was

>Ketogenic during it's " initiation " stage.

>

>Basically, it's a very low (like no) carbohydrate diet. After the body

>runs out of stored glycogen it shifts to burning fat to make ketones as

>a substitute for sugar to keep the brain powered up. Apparently the

>brain is pretty happy, burning ketones and it's reported to reduce

>epileptic seizures.

>

>So you can eat tons of calories worth of fatty meats, and as long as you

>lay off any carbs, you can still be in Ketosis.

>

> JR

Ketogenic diets have neurological effects. They are an accepted

treatment for childhood epilepsy... The ketogenic diet works in many cases

where drugs fail:

http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/answerplace/Medical/treatment/diet/

[Guest guest]

>>>Ketogenic diets have neurological effects. They are an accepted treatment for childhood epilepsy... The ketogenic diet works in many cases where drugs fail: Ah yes,but at what cost?? Effect of a high-fat ketogenic diet on plasma levels of lipids, lipoproteins, and apolipoproteins in children. Kwiterovich PO Jr, Vining EP, Pyzik

P, Skolasky R Jr, Freeman JM JAMA. 2003 Aug 20;290(7):912-20. PMID: 12928468 CONTEXT: Little prospective long-term information is available on the effect of a ketogenic diet on plasma lipoproteins in children with difficult-to-control seizures. OBJECTIVE: To determine the effect in children with intractable seizures of a high-fat ketogenic diet on plasma levels of the major apolipoprotein B (apoB)-containing lipoproteins, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and very LDL (VLDL); and the major apolipoprotein A-I (apoA-I)-containing lipoprotein, high-density lipoprotein (HDL). DESIGN, SETTING, AND PATIENTS: A 6-month prospective cohort study of 141 children (mean [sD] age, 5.2 [3.8] years for 70 boys and 6.1 [4.4] years for 71 girls) with difficult-to-treat seizures who were hospitalized for initiation of a high-fat ketogenic diet and followed up as outpatients. This cohort constituted a subgroup of the 371 patients accepted into the ketogenic diet program between 1994 and 2001. A subset of the cohort was also studied after 12 (n = 59) and 24 (n = 27) months. INTERVENTION: A ketogenic diet consisting of a high ratio of fat to carbohydrate and protein combined (4:1 [n = 102], 3.5:1 [n = 7], or 3:1 [n = 32]). After diet initiation, the calories and ratio were adjusted to maintain ideal body weight for height and maximal urinary ketosis for seizure control. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Differences at baseline and 6-month follow-up for levels of total, VLDL, LDL, HDL, and non-HDL cholesterol; triglycerides; total apoB; and apoA-I. RESULTS: At 6 months, the high-fat ketogenic diet significantly increased the mean plasma levels of total (58 mg/dL [1.50 mmol/L]), LDL (50 mg/dL [1.30 mmol/L]), VLDL (8 mg/dL [0.21 mmol/L]), and non-HDL cholesterol (63 mg/dL [1.63 mmol/L]) (P<.001 vs baseline for each); triglycerides (58 mg/dL [0.66 mmol/L]) (P<.001); and total apoB (49 mg/dL) (P<.001). Mean HDL cholesterol decreased significantly (P<.001), although apoA-I increased (4 mg/dL) (P =.23). Significant but less marked changes persisted in children observed after 12 and 24 months. CONCLUSIONS: A high-fat ketogenic diet produced significant increases in the atherogenic apoB-containing lipoproteins and a

decrease in the antiatherogenic HDL cholesterol. Further studies are necessary to determine if such a diet adversely affects endothelial vascular function and promotes inflammation and formation of atherosclerotic lesions.

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[Guest guest]

>>>Ketogenic diets have neurological effects. They are an accepted treatment for childhood epilepsy... The ketogenic diet works in many cases where drugs fail: Ah yes,but at what cost?? Effect of a high-fat ketogenic diet on plasma levels of lipids, lipoproteins, and apolipoproteins in children. Kwiterovich PO Jr, Vining EP, Pyzik

P, Skolasky R Jr, Freeman JM JAMA. 2003 Aug 20;290(7):912-20. PMID: 12928468 CONTEXT: Little prospective long-term information is available on the effect of a ketogenic diet on plasma lipoproteins in children with difficult-to-control seizures. OBJECTIVE: To determine the effect in children with intractable seizures of a high-fat ketogenic diet on plasma levels of the major apolipoprotein B (apoB)-containing lipoproteins, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and very LDL (VLDL); and the major apolipoprotein A-I (apoA-I)-containing lipoprotein, high-density lipoprotein (HDL). DESIGN, SETTING, AND PATIENTS: A 6-month prospective cohort study of 141 children (mean [sD] age, 5.2 [3.8] years for 70 boys and 6.1 [4.4] years for 71 girls) with difficult-to-treat seizures who were hospitalized for initiation of a high-fat ketogenic diet and followed up as outpatients. This cohort constituted a subgroup of the 371 patients accepted into the ketogenic diet program between 1994 and 2001. A subset of the cohort was also studied after 12 (n = 59) and 24 (n = 27) months. INTERVENTION: A ketogenic diet consisting of a high ratio of fat to carbohydrate and protein combined (4:1 [n = 102], 3.5:1 [n = 7], or 3:1 [n = 32]). After diet initiation, the calories and ratio were adjusted to maintain ideal body weight for height and maximal urinary ketosis for seizure control. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Differences at baseline and 6-month follow-up for levels of total, VLDL, LDL, HDL, and non-HDL cholesterol; triglycerides; total apoB; and apoA-I. RESULTS: At 6 months, the high-fat ketogenic diet significantly increased the mean plasma levels of total (58 mg/dL [1.50 mmol/L]), LDL (50 mg/dL [1.30 mmol/L]), VLDL (8 mg/dL [0.21 mmol/L]), and non-HDL cholesterol (63 mg/dL [1.63 mmol/L]) (P<.001 vs baseline for each); triglycerides (58 mg/dL [0.66 mmol/L]) (P<.001); and total apoB (49 mg/dL) (P<.001). Mean HDL cholesterol decreased significantly (P<.001), although apoA-I increased (4 mg/dL) (P =.23). Significant but less marked changes persisted in children observed after 12 and 24 months. CONCLUSIONS: A high-fat ketogenic diet produced significant increases in the atherogenic apoB-containing lipoproteins and a

decrease in the antiatherogenic HDL cholesterol. Further studies are necessary to determine if such a diet adversely affects endothelial vascular function and promotes inflammation and formation of atherosclerotic lesions.

New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Guest guest]

a few situations will induce ketosis.. - a very low carbohydrate intake , regardless of caloric intake - a ver low calorie intake - almost any diet in an untreated diabetic

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[Guest guest]

a few situations will induce ketosis.. - a very low carbohydrate intake , regardless of caloric intake - a ver low calorie intake - almost any diet in an untreated diabetic

Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on FareChase

[Guest guest]

At 11:50 AM 5/4/2006, you wrote:

>>>Ketogenic diets have

neurological effects. They are an accepted

treatment for childhood epilepsy... The ketogenic diet works in

many cases

where drugs fail:

Ah yes,but at what cost??

RESULTS: At 6 months, the high-fat ketogenic

diet significantly increased the mean plasma levels of total (58 mg/dL

[1.50 mmol/L]), LDL (50 mg/dL [1.30 mmol/L]), VLDL (8 mg/dL [0.21

mmol/L]), and non-HDL cholesterol (63 mg/dL [1.63 mmol/L]) (P<.001 vs

baseline for each); triglycerides (58 mg/dL [0.66 mmol/L]) (P<.001);

and total apoB (49 mg/dL) (P<.001). Mean HDL cholesterol decreased

significantly (P<.001), although apoA-I increased (4 mg/dL) (P =.23).

Significant but less marked changes persisted in children observed after

12 and 24 months.

Epilepsy

can wreck your life much faster than arterosclerosis. Difficulty of

sticking to a big lifestyle change and the risks you mention are reasons

why this is a second or third-line treatment, only after drugs have

failed or had unacceptable side effects. That said, epilepsy

drugs can be pretty heavy -- most of them are drugs that affect the

GABA-ergic system, such as benzodiazepines and gabapentin.

Generally these thing shut down nervous activity in the whole brain in

the hope of stopping seizures. It could be that running on ketones

has similar profound effects on the brain.

[Guest guest]

At 11:50 AM 5/4/2006, you wrote:

>>>Ketogenic diets have

neurological effects. They are an accepted

treatment for childhood epilepsy... The ketogenic diet works in

many cases

where drugs fail:

Ah yes,but at what cost??

RESULTS: At 6 months, the high-fat ketogenic

diet significantly increased the mean plasma levels of total (58 mg/dL

[1.50 mmol/L]), LDL (50 mg/dL [1.30 mmol/L]), VLDL (8 mg/dL [0.21

mmol/L]), and non-HDL cholesterol (63 mg/dL [1.63 mmol/L]) (P<.001 vs

baseline for each); triglycerides (58 mg/dL [0.66 mmol/L]) (P<.001);

and total apoB (49 mg/dL) (P<.001). Mean HDL cholesterol decreased

significantly (P<.001), although apoA-I increased (4 mg/dL) (P =.23).

Significant but less marked changes persisted in children observed after

12 and 24 months.

Epilepsy

can wreck your life much faster than arterosclerosis. Difficulty of

sticking to a big lifestyle change and the risks you mention are reasons

why this is a second or third-line treatment, only after drugs have

failed or had unacceptable side effects. That said, epilepsy

drugs can be pretty heavy -- most of them are drugs that affect the

GABA-ergic system, such as benzodiazepines and gabapentin.

Generally these thing shut down nervous activity in the whole brain in

the hope of stopping seizures. It could be that running on ketones

has similar profound effects on the brain.