coffeRe: Re: Cocoa Consumption: a sobering study - coffee toxic?

[Guest guest]

As a card carrying toxicologist, allow me to add my 2

cents:

Paracelsus, the 15th century alchemist often considered the

father of toxicology said (in short), " The dose makes the

poison. "

The long version was: " All things are poison and nothing (is) without

poison; only the dose makes that a thing is no

poison. "

-Will

Please

provide a ref for that caffeine is toxic?

Many

things we eat are " toxic " , but to what

degree?

Forensic

Sci Int. 2005 Oct 4;153(1):67-9.

Fatal caffeine overdose: two case

reports.

Kerrigan S, Lindsey T.

New Mexico Department of Health, Scientific Laboratory Division,

Toxicology Bureau, P.O. Box 4700, Albuquerque, NM 87196-4700, USA.

sarah.kerrigan@...

Caffeine is a mild central nervous stimulant that occurs naturally in

coffee beans, cocoa beans and tea leaves. In large doses, it can be

profoundly toxic, resulting in arrhythmia, tachycardia, vomiting,

convulsions, coma and death. The average cup of coffee or tea in the

United States is reported to contain between 40 and 150 mg caffeine

although specialty coffees may contain much higher doses.

Over-the-counter supplements that are used to combat fatigue typically

contain 100-200 mg caffeine per tablet and doses of 32-200mg are

included in a variety of prescription drug mixtures. Fatal caffeine

overdoses in adults are relatively rare and require the ingestion of a

large quantity of the drug, typically in excess of 5 g. Over a period

of approximately 12 months our office reported two cases of fatal

caffeine intoxication. In the first case, the femoral blood of a

39-year-old female with a history of intravenous drug use contained

192 mg/L caffeine. In the second case, femoral blood from a

29-year-old male with a history of obesity and diabetes contained 567

mg/L caffeine. In both cases, the cause of death was ruled as caffeine

intoxication and the manner of death was accidental.

Publication Types: Case

Reports

PMID: 15935584

[ ] Re: Cocoa Consumption: a

sobering study

Yes, truly amazing findings.

I wonder why they are so few studies directed toward an evaluation

of

theobromine toxicity (except in dogs). After all it is a stimulant

closely related to caffeine. We know caffeine to be toxic.

Economic

reasons? One such study I found, out of india, ironically

concludes

that this important compound of cacoa is toxic to the heart

muscle.

What's the good of lowering blood pressure through consumption of

cocoa when there are so many other ways, if it weakens the heart

muscle? The ultimate effects of this practice are not likely to

show

for many years.

http://www.ijp-online.com/article.asp?issn=0253-7613;year=1998;volume=30;issue=5;spage=339;epage=342;aulast=Eteng;type=0

> >

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > Just 4.2 g a day of it. And it presumably included all

kinds of

> fat

> > and sugar with it. So imagine how good the de-fatted

sugar-free

> > cocoa must be!

> >

> >

> http://heart.healthcentersonline.com/newsstories/cocoaconsumershavelow

> > erdiseaseriskstudy.cfm?nl=1

> >

> > http://snipurl.com/nce3

> >

> > Rodney.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

As a card carrying toxicologist, allow me to add my 2

cents:

Paracelsus, the 15th century alchemist often considered the

father of toxicology said (in short), " The dose makes the

poison. "

The long version was: " All things are poison and nothing (is) without

poison; only the dose makes that a thing is no

poison. "

-Will

Please

provide a ref for that caffeine is toxic?

Many

things we eat are " toxic " , but to what

degree?

Forensic

Sci Int. 2005 Oct 4;153(1):67-9.

Fatal caffeine overdose: two case

reports.

Kerrigan S, Lindsey T.

New Mexico Department of Health, Scientific Laboratory Division,

Toxicology Bureau, P.O. Box 4700, Albuquerque, NM 87196-4700, USA.

sarah.kerrigan@...

Caffeine is a mild central nervous stimulant that occurs naturally in

coffee beans, cocoa beans and tea leaves. In large doses, it can be

profoundly toxic, resulting in arrhythmia, tachycardia, vomiting,

convulsions, coma and death. The average cup of coffee or tea in the

United States is reported to contain between 40 and 150 mg caffeine

although specialty coffees may contain much higher doses.

Over-the-counter supplements that are used to combat fatigue typically

contain 100-200 mg caffeine per tablet and doses of 32-200mg are

included in a variety of prescription drug mixtures. Fatal caffeine

overdoses in adults are relatively rare and require the ingestion of a

large quantity of the drug, typically in excess of 5 g. Over a period

of approximately 12 months our office reported two cases of fatal

caffeine intoxication. In the first case, the femoral blood of a

39-year-old female with a history of intravenous drug use contained

192 mg/L caffeine. In the second case, femoral blood from a

29-year-old male with a history of obesity and diabetes contained 567

mg/L caffeine. In both cases, the cause of death was ruled as caffeine

intoxication and the manner of death was accidental.

Publication Types: Case

Reports

PMID: 15935584

[ ] Re: Cocoa Consumption: a

sobering study

Yes, truly amazing findings.

I wonder why they are so few studies directed toward an evaluation

of

theobromine toxicity (except in dogs). After all it is a stimulant

closely related to caffeine. We know caffeine to be toxic.

Economic

reasons? One such study I found, out of india, ironically

concludes

that this important compound of cacoa is toxic to the heart

muscle.

What's the good of lowering blood pressure through consumption of

cocoa when there are so many other ways, if it weakens the heart

muscle? The ultimate effects of this practice are not likely to

show

for many years.

http://www.ijp-online.com/article.asp?issn=0253-7613;year=1998;volume=30;issue=5;spage=339;epage=342;aulast=Eteng;type=0

> >

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > Just 4.2 g a day of it. And it presumably included all

kinds of

> fat

> > and sugar with it. So imagine how good the de-fatted

sugar-free

> > cocoa must be!

> >

> >

> http://heart.healthcentersonline.com/newsstories/cocoaconsumershavelow

> > erdiseaseriskstudy.cfm?nl=1

> >

> > http://snipurl.com/nce3

> >

> > Rodney.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>> "The dose makes the poison."

True, but Starbucks is sure making it easier to cross the line.

[Guest guest]

>> "The dose makes the poison."

True, but Starbucks is sure making it easier to cross the line.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@...>

wrote:

> >> " The dose makes the poison. "

> True, but Starbucks is sure making it easier to cross the line.

*****But Starbucks doesn't coerce the consumer into consuming its

beverage.

It all seems to be a matter of self-control. Why do some people pay

close attention to their health (both physical and/or mental), and

others, who are aware of at least some of the risks of unwise

behavior, treat their health in a cavalier manner?

Some people appear to exercise control. Some don't. It seems to me

that some of us are so wired as to be able to stop at 1 cup of java

(or whatever our health limit is). Others, even when they " know "

better, consume far more than is wise. Our ability to control our

actions seems to arise out of the brain's programming. Who controls

what gets programmed?