Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 One of our good friends, a health "nut" dropped dead last week skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan might be prudent. Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 One of our good friends, a health "nut" dropped dead last week skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan might be prudent. Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 What is a full body scan? full-body CT scan? AFAIK, there is no predictive for sudden death. http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/pulse/scripts/01_02/full_body_scan.pdf#search='full%20body%20scan' Even If I was at risk, I probably would not avoid skiing, if I liked skiing. Even If I was at risk, I couldn't find a drug to reduce it. Even if I was at risk, I couldn't find an herb/supplement to reduce it. IMO, CR is the only thing to reduce risk that might have a chance. I mean, look at what it does in terms of risks: It lowers the emphasis on gaining weight. With less food calories, you'll require the better nutritive foods. It impresses people with the aspect of getting to normal weight is healthier. It lowers cholesterol values in that process. It lowers Blood pressure in that process. It lowers blood glucose if it's high, in that process. It allows more exercise, more flexing, better breathing, all those things that exercise does for us. I believe my doctor will tell me when there is some test that I need. Regards. [ ] Re: Full body scans One of our good friends, a health "nut" dropped dead last week skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan might be prudent.Has anyone had one done? Any opinions?I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 What is a full body scan? full-body CT scan? AFAIK, there is no predictive for sudden death. http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/pulse/scripts/01_02/full_body_scan.pdf#search='full%20body%20scan' Even If I was at risk, I probably would not avoid skiing, if I liked skiing. Even If I was at risk, I couldn't find a drug to reduce it. Even if I was at risk, I couldn't find an herb/supplement to reduce it. IMO, CR is the only thing to reduce risk that might have a chance. I mean, look at what it does in terms of risks: It lowers the emphasis on gaining weight. With less food calories, you'll require the better nutritive foods. It impresses people with the aspect of getting to normal weight is healthier. It lowers cholesterol values in that process. It lowers Blood pressure in that process. It lowers blood glucose if it's high, in that process. It allows more exercise, more flexing, better breathing, all those things that exercise does for us. I believe my doctor will tell me when there is some test that I need. Regards. [ ] Re: Full body scans One of our good friends, a health "nut" dropped dead last week skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan might be prudent.Has anyone had one done? Any opinions?I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Hi Bernadette: Do not full body scans entail CT? If so then there is LOTS of x-ray exposure. So I wouldn't have one done unless there was a very good reason. But an ultrasound carotid IMT test would involve no radiation and is comparatively cheap. And I would be tempted to use the WUSTL data (for both CRers and controls) as reference markers. However, I am no authority on this, so someone please correct this if I am in error. ty. Rodney. > > One of our good friends, a health " nut " dropped dead last week skiing from a > cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan > might be prudent. > > Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? > > I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Hi Bernadette: Do not full body scans entail CT? If so then there is LOTS of x-ray exposure. So I wouldn't have one done unless there was a very good reason. But an ultrasound carotid IMT test would involve no radiation and is comparatively cheap. And I would be tempted to use the WUSTL data (for both CRers and controls) as reference markers. However, I am no authority on this, so someone please correct this if I am in error. ty. Rodney. > > One of our good friends, a health " nut " dropped dead last week skiing from a > cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan > might be prudent. > > Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? > > I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Hi Bernadette: I realize it may not be appropriate in the circumstances for you to be asking questions, so I am sure you will use your excellent judgment about it. But it would be interesting to know what kind of 'nut' your " health nut " friend was. Was he a vegan? Raw foodist? A 'peanut diet' advocate? (yes I did once read an article recommending eating humungous quantities of peanuts). Was he an Atkins enthusiast (probably was?). Or a Zoneist? Or a zoroastrian (this one a joke). I am sure he was not pursuing CRON ........... or if he was then not for long. But if he was doing Atkins then none of us here would be even remotely surprised by the result. As I said, only whatever is appropriate. Rodney. > > One of our good friends, a health " nut " dropped dead last week skiing from a > cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan > might be prudent. > > Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? > > I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Hi Bernadette: I realize it may not be appropriate in the circumstances for you to be asking questions, so I am sure you will use your excellent judgment about it. But it would be interesting to know what kind of 'nut' your " health nut " friend was. Was he a vegan? Raw foodist? A 'peanut diet' advocate? (yes I did once read an article recommending eating humungous quantities of peanuts). Was he an Atkins enthusiast (probably was?). Or a Zoneist? Or a zoroastrian (this one a joke). I am sure he was not pursuing CRON ........... or if he was then not for long. But if he was doing Atkins then none of us here would be even remotely surprised by the result. As I said, only whatever is appropriate. Rodney. > > One of our good friends, a health " nut " dropped dead last week skiing from a > cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan > might be prudent. > > Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? > > I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Possibly something to note: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/352/19/1951 Heart-Rate Profile during Exercise as a Predictor of Sudden Death Xavier Jouven, M.D., Ph.D., Jean-Philippe Empana, M.D., J. Schwartz, M.D., Michel Desnos, M.D., Dominique Courbon, M.S.C., and Pierre Ducimetière, Ph.D. ABSTRACT Background Changes in heart rate during exercise and recovery from exercise are mediated by the balance between sympathetic and vagal activity. Since alterations in the neural control of cardiac function contribute to the risk of sudden death, we tested the hypothesis that among apparently healthy persons, sudden death is more likely to occur in the presence of abnormal heart-rate profiles during exercise and recovery. Methods A total of 5713 asymptomatic working men (between the ages of 42 and 53 years), none of whom had clinically detectable cardiovascular disease, underwent standardized graded exercise testing between 1967 and 1972. We examined data on the subjects' resting heart rates, the increase in rate from the resting level to the peak exercise level, and the decrease in rate from the peak exercise level to the level one minute after the termination of exercise. Results During a 23-year follow-up period, 81 subjects died suddenly. The risk of sudden death from myocardial infarction was increased in subjects with a resting heart rate that was more than 75 beats per minute (relative risk, 3.92; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.91 to 8.00); in subjects with an increase in heart rate during exercise that was less than 89 beats per minute (relative risk, 6.18; 95 percent confidence interval, 2.37 to 16.11); and in subjects with a decrease in heart rate of less than 25 beats per minute after the termination of exercise (relative risk, 2.20; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.02 to 4.74). After adjustment for potential confounding variables, these three factors remained strongly associated with an increased risk of sudden death, with a moderate but significantly increased risk of death from any cause but not of nonsudden death from myocardial infarction. Conclusions The heart-rate profile during exercise and recovery is a predictor of sudden death. [ ] Re: Full body scans One of our good friends, a health "nut" dropped dead last week skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan might be prudent.Has anyone had one done? Any opinions?I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Possibly something to note: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/352/19/1951 Heart-Rate Profile during Exercise as a Predictor of Sudden Death Xavier Jouven, M.D., Ph.D., Jean-Philippe Empana, M.D., J. Schwartz, M.D., Michel Desnos, M.D., Dominique Courbon, M.S.C., and Pierre Ducimetière, Ph.D. ABSTRACT Background Changes in heart rate during exercise and recovery from exercise are mediated by the balance between sympathetic and vagal activity. Since alterations in the neural control of cardiac function contribute to the risk of sudden death, we tested the hypothesis that among apparently healthy persons, sudden death is more likely to occur in the presence of abnormal heart-rate profiles during exercise and recovery. Methods A total of 5713 asymptomatic working men (between the ages of 42 and 53 years), none of whom had clinically detectable cardiovascular disease, underwent standardized graded exercise testing between 1967 and 1972. We examined data on the subjects' resting heart rates, the increase in rate from the resting level to the peak exercise level, and the decrease in rate from the peak exercise level to the level one minute after the termination of exercise. Results During a 23-year follow-up period, 81 subjects died suddenly. The risk of sudden death from myocardial infarction was increased in subjects with a resting heart rate that was more than 75 beats per minute (relative risk, 3.92; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.91 to 8.00); in subjects with an increase in heart rate during exercise that was less than 89 beats per minute (relative risk, 6.18; 95 percent confidence interval, 2.37 to 16.11); and in subjects with a decrease in heart rate of less than 25 beats per minute after the termination of exercise (relative risk, 2.20; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.02 to 4.74). After adjustment for potential confounding variables, these three factors remained strongly associated with an increased risk of sudden death, with a moderate but significantly increased risk of death from any cause but not of nonsudden death from myocardial infarction. Conclusions The heart-rate profile during exercise and recovery is a predictor of sudden death. [ ] Re: Full body scans One of our good friends, a health "nut" dropped dead last week skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan might be prudent.Has anyone had one done? Any opinions?I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Here's the Tiny URL for full text (free, but you have to be registered(free) at nejm.org: http://tinyurl.com/bw8dj If anyone wants the paper but doesn't want to subscribe email off list. This paper is indeed interesting, but the abstract raises a lot of questions that, presumably, are answered in the paper(haven't had a chance to read it yet, and I have a busy weekend coming up). For instance, recovery-- how quickly, and following what level of heart rate increase, and recovery to what level? I can't figure the " less than 89 " beats per minute increase. Again, presumably, this seems to mean that at a presribed resistance level, those most at risk for sudden death had an pulse increase of less than 89 bpm. Typically a lower increase in bpm for a given amount of resistance means that the subject is in better shape. I've often wondered if has done any prospective studies, or has made the effort to follow up with many of his particpants They are now, like me, in their mid-to late- 60's and beyond. He was very numbers oriented in his earliest publications Mike --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > > Possibly something to note: > http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/352/19/1951 > > Heart-Rate Profile during Exercise as a Predictor of Sudden Death > > Xavier Jouven, M.D., Ph.D., Jean-Philippe Empana, M.D., J. Schwartz, M.D., Michel Desnos, M.D., Dominique Courbon, M.S.C., and Pierre Ducimetière, Ph.D. > ABSTRACT > > Background Changes in heart rate during exercise and recovery from exercise are mediated by the balance between sympathetic and vagal activity. Since alterations in the neural control of cardiac function contribute to the risk of sudden death, we tested the hypothesis that among apparently healthy persons, sudden death is more likely to occur in the presence of abnormal heart-rate profiles during exercise and recovery. > > Methods A total of 5713 asymptomatic working men (between the ages of 42 and 53 years), none of whom had clinically detectable cardiovascular disease, underwent standardized graded exercise testing between 1967 and 1972. We examined data on the subjects' resting heart rates, the increase in rate from the resting level to the peak exercise level, and the decrease in rate from the peak exercise level to the level one minute after the termination of exercise. > > Results During a 23-year follow-up period, 81 subjects died suddenly. The risk of sudden death from myocardial infarction was increased in subjects with a resting heart rate that was more than 75 beats per minute (relative risk, 3.92; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.91 to 8.00); in subjects with an increase in heart rate during exercise that was less than 89 beats per minute (relative risk, 6.18; 95 percent confidence interval, 2.37 to 16.11); and in subjects with a decrease in heart rate of less than 25 beats per minute after the termination of exercise (relative risk, 2.20; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.02 to 4.74). After adjustment for potential confounding variables, these three factors remained strongly associated with an increased risk of sudden death, with a moderate but significantly increased risk of death from any cause but not of nonsudden death from myocardial infarction. > > Conclusions The heart-rate profile during exercise and recovery is a predictor of sudden death. > > > > > > [ ] Re: Full body scans > > > One of our good friends, a health " nut " dropped dead last week skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan might be prudent. > > Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? > > I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Here's the Tiny URL for full text (free, but you have to be registered(free) at nejm.org: http://tinyurl.com/bw8dj If anyone wants the paper but doesn't want to subscribe email off list. This paper is indeed interesting, but the abstract raises a lot of questions that, presumably, are answered in the paper(haven't had a chance to read it yet, and I have a busy weekend coming up). For instance, recovery-- how quickly, and following what level of heart rate increase, and recovery to what level? I can't figure the " less than 89 " beats per minute increase. Again, presumably, this seems to mean that at a presribed resistance level, those most at risk for sudden death had an pulse increase of less than 89 bpm. Typically a lower increase in bpm for a given amount of resistance means that the subject is in better shape. I've often wondered if has done any prospective studies, or has made the effort to follow up with many of his particpants They are now, like me, in their mid-to late- 60's and beyond. He was very numbers oriented in his earliest publications Mike --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > > Possibly something to note: > http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/352/19/1951 > > Heart-Rate Profile during Exercise as a Predictor of Sudden Death > > Xavier Jouven, M.D., Ph.D., Jean-Philippe Empana, M.D., J. Schwartz, M.D., Michel Desnos, M.D., Dominique Courbon, M.S.C., and Pierre Ducimetière, Ph.D. > ABSTRACT > > Background Changes in heart rate during exercise and recovery from exercise are mediated by the balance between sympathetic and vagal activity. Since alterations in the neural control of cardiac function contribute to the risk of sudden death, we tested the hypothesis that among apparently healthy persons, sudden death is more likely to occur in the presence of abnormal heart-rate profiles during exercise and recovery. > > Methods A total of 5713 asymptomatic working men (between the ages of 42 and 53 years), none of whom had clinically detectable cardiovascular disease, underwent standardized graded exercise testing between 1967 and 1972. We examined data on the subjects' resting heart rates, the increase in rate from the resting level to the peak exercise level, and the decrease in rate from the peak exercise level to the level one minute after the termination of exercise. > > Results During a 23-year follow-up period, 81 subjects died suddenly. The risk of sudden death from myocardial infarction was increased in subjects with a resting heart rate that was more than 75 beats per minute (relative risk, 3.92; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.91 to 8.00); in subjects with an increase in heart rate during exercise that was less than 89 beats per minute (relative risk, 6.18; 95 percent confidence interval, 2.37 to 16.11); and in subjects with a decrease in heart rate of less than 25 beats per minute after the termination of exercise (relative risk, 2.20; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.02 to 4.74). After adjustment for potential confounding variables, these three factors remained strongly associated with an increased risk of sudden death, with a moderate but significantly increased risk of death from any cause but not of nonsudden death from myocardial infarction. > > Conclusions The heart-rate profile during exercise and recovery is a predictor of sudden death. > > > > > > [ ] Re: Full body scans > > > One of our good friends, a health " nut " dropped dead last week skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that perhaps a full body scan might be prudent. > > Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? > > I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is lifespan related! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hi Mike: There were two things I especially liked about this paper. First, the HUGE risk elevations indicated. Second, these are three tests that anyone can do, at zero expense and without having to get an MD referral, to check what their risk is. The authors themselves expressed surprise about the 89 statistic. And certainly it would be nice to know the rational explanation of it. But it is the numbers we get that we did not expect that are often the most revealing of information we did not have before (assuming of course that they are actually true!) But those who have never taken much exercise should certainly NOT try these tests before getting medical approval. Rodney. > > > > Possibly something to note: > > http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/352/19/1951 > > > > Heart-Rate Profile during Exercise as a Predictor of Sudden Death > > > > Xavier Jouven, M.D., Ph.D., Jean-Philippe Empana, M.D., J. > Schwartz, M.D., Michel Desnos, M.D., Dominique Courbon, M.S.C., and > Pierre Ducimetière, Ph.D. > > ABSTRACT > > > > Background Changes in heart rate during exercise and recovery from > exercise are mediated by the balance between sympathetic and vagal > activity. Since alterations in the neural control of cardiac > function contribute to the risk of sudden death, we tested the > hypothesis that among apparently healthy persons, sudden death is > more likely to occur in the presence of abnormal heart-rate profiles > during exercise and recovery. > > > > Methods A total of 5713 asymptomatic working men (between the ages > of 42 and 53 years), none of whom had clinically detectable > cardiovascular disease, underwent standardized graded exercise > testing between 1967 and 1972. We examined data on the subjects' > resting heart rates, the increase in rate from the resting level to > the peak exercise level, and the decrease in rate from the peak > exercise level to the level one minute after the termination of > exercise. > > > > Results During a 23-year follow-up period, 81 subjects died > suddenly. The risk of sudden death from myocardial infarction was > increased in subjects with a resting heart rate that was more than > 75 beats per minute (relative risk, 3.92; 95 percent confidence > interval, 1.91 to 8.00); in subjects with an increase in heart rate > during exercise that was less than 89 beats per minute (relative > risk, 6.18; 95 percent confidence interval, 2.37 to 16.11); and in > subjects with a decrease in heart rate of less than 25 beats per > minute after the termination of exercise (relative risk, 2.20; 95 > percent confidence interval, 1.02 to 4.74). After adjustment for > potential confounding variables, these three factors remained > strongly associated with an increased risk of sudden death, with a > moderate but significantly increased risk of death from any cause > but not of nonsudden death from myocardial infarction. > > > > Conclusions The heart-rate profile during exercise and recovery is > a predictor of sudden death. > > > > > > > > > > > > [ ] Re: Full body scans > > > > > > One of our good friends, a health " nut " dropped dead last week > skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that > perhaps a full body scan might be prudent. > > > > Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? > > > > I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is > lifespan related! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hi Mike: There were two things I especially liked about this paper. First, the HUGE risk elevations indicated. Second, these are three tests that anyone can do, at zero expense and without having to get an MD referral, to check what their risk is. The authors themselves expressed surprise about the 89 statistic. And certainly it would be nice to know the rational explanation of it. But it is the numbers we get that we did not expect that are often the most revealing of information we did not have before (assuming of course that they are actually true!) But those who have never taken much exercise should certainly NOT try these tests before getting medical approval. Rodney. > > > > Possibly something to note: > > http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/352/19/1951 > > > > Heart-Rate Profile during Exercise as a Predictor of Sudden Death > > > > Xavier Jouven, M.D., Ph.D., Jean-Philippe Empana, M.D., J. > Schwartz, M.D., Michel Desnos, M.D., Dominique Courbon, M.S.C., and > Pierre Ducimetière, Ph.D. > > ABSTRACT > > > > Background Changes in heart rate during exercise and recovery from > exercise are mediated by the balance between sympathetic and vagal > activity. Since alterations in the neural control of cardiac > function contribute to the risk of sudden death, we tested the > hypothesis that among apparently healthy persons, sudden death is > more likely to occur in the presence of abnormal heart-rate profiles > during exercise and recovery. > > > > Methods A total of 5713 asymptomatic working men (between the ages > of 42 and 53 years), none of whom had clinically detectable > cardiovascular disease, underwent standardized graded exercise > testing between 1967 and 1972. We examined data on the subjects' > resting heart rates, the increase in rate from the resting level to > the peak exercise level, and the decrease in rate from the peak > exercise level to the level one minute after the termination of > exercise. > > > > Results During a 23-year follow-up period, 81 subjects died > suddenly. The risk of sudden death from myocardial infarction was > increased in subjects with a resting heart rate that was more than > 75 beats per minute (relative risk, 3.92; 95 percent confidence > interval, 1.91 to 8.00); in subjects with an increase in heart rate > during exercise that was less than 89 beats per minute (relative > risk, 6.18; 95 percent confidence interval, 2.37 to 16.11); and in > subjects with a decrease in heart rate of less than 25 beats per > minute after the termination of exercise (relative risk, 2.20; 95 > percent confidence interval, 1.02 to 4.74). After adjustment for > potential confounding variables, these three factors remained > strongly associated with an increased risk of sudden death, with a > moderate but significantly increased risk of death from any cause > but not of nonsudden death from myocardial infarction. > > > > Conclusions The heart-rate profile during exercise and recovery is > a predictor of sudden death. > > > > > > > > > > > > [ ] Re: Full body scans > > > > > > One of our good friends, a health " nut " dropped dead last week > skiing from a cardiovascular event. This causes us to think that > perhaps a full body scan might be prudent. > > > > Has anyone had one done? Any opinions? > > > > I realize that this is not directly CR related, but it is > lifespan related! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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