Re: Weight loss issues vs. CR issues

[Guest guest]

We have never promoted any weight loss diets. In fact we've often said to throw away the scale and just eat ON and you'll lose weight. We've also said (OFTEN) that CRON is NOT a diet, that weight is not the issue, but that one will certainly lose weight as a side effect of CRON.

on 2/2/2006 3:02 PM, jt_qod at jt@... wrote:

Some of discussions here have

focused on weight loss diets, which are probably really off-topic.

[Guest guest]

We have never promoted any weight loss diets. In fact we've often said to throw away the scale and just eat ON and you'll lose weight. We've also said (OFTEN) that CRON is NOT a diet, that weight is not the issue, but that one will certainly lose weight as a side effect of CRON.

on 2/2/2006 3:02 PM, jt_qod at jt@... wrote:

Some of discussions here have

focused on weight loss diets, which are probably really off-topic.

[Guest guest]

I would be particularly interested to know if people doing CR are

all

routinely taking glucosamine/chondroitin and/or carnitine.

--I take a gram or two/day of carnitine in the form of one or two Juvenon

caplets.

Maco

[Guest guest]

I would be particularly interested to know if people doing CR are

all

routinely taking glucosamine/chondroitin and/or carnitine.

--I take a gram or two/day of carnitine in the form of one or two Juvenon

caplets.

Maco

[Guest guest]

I tried glucosamine/chondroitin for several months to no effect. My wife likes it.

L-Carnitine is useful to burn fat, but I don't take a lot, (250 -500 mgs). I don't think it has any effect on adipose stored fat.

Both those were suggested by a doctor.

FWIW, I think there will be drugs in the near future that will purport to control adipose tissue, just from the standpoint that something's gotta give. Sooner or later some drug company will recognize that people want a pill that actually effects the hormonal structure, not an appetite suppressor or other gimmick.

They have the tech, I'm sure, they can't be that stupid.

Just need to sell it the FDA.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Weight loss issues vs. CR issues

I would be particularly interested to know if people doing CR are allroutinely taking glucosamine/chondroitin and/or carnitine.--I take a gram or two/day of carnitine in the form of one or two Juvenon caplets.Maco

[Guest guest]

I tried glucosamine/chondroitin for several months to no effect. My wife likes it.

L-Carnitine is useful to burn fat, but I don't take a lot, (250 -500 mgs). I don't think it has any effect on adipose stored fat.

Both those were suggested by a doctor.

FWIW, I think there will be drugs in the near future that will purport to control adipose tissue, just from the standpoint that something's gotta give. Sooner or later some drug company will recognize that people want a pill that actually effects the hormonal structure, not an appetite suppressor or other gimmick.

They have the tech, I'm sure, they can't be that stupid.

Just need to sell it the FDA.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Weight loss issues vs. CR issues

I would be particularly interested to know if people doing CR are allroutinely taking glucosamine/chondroitin and/or carnitine.--I take a gram or two/day of carnitine in the form of one or two Juvenon caplets.Maco

[Guest guest]

>

> I tried glucosamine/chondroitin for several months to no effect. My

wife likes it.

A single data point anecdotal evidence story about glucosamine:

I have two middle-age dogs who were both exhibiting signs of arthritis

- hobbling when they got up from the floor, etc. I started them on

glucosamine/chondroitin supplements (veterinary version) and noticed

an improvement after about 6 weeks.

I thought it was a good " blind " test, though double-blind (did I give

them the real stuff, or the placebo?) would be best.

Diane

[Guest guest]

>

> I tried glucosamine/chondroitin for several months to no effect. My

wife likes it.

A single data point anecdotal evidence story about glucosamine:

I have two middle-age dogs who were both exhibiting signs of arthritis

- hobbling when they got up from the floor, etc. I started them on

glucosamine/chondroitin supplements (veterinary version) and noticed

an improvement after about 6 weeks.

I thought it was a good " blind " test, though double-blind (did I give

them the real stuff, or the placebo?) would be best.

Diane

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane:

Is arthritis the only (or prime) reason to take glucosamine and

chondroitin?

Is there a reason to take it as a preventative, or is it only

considered a 'cure'? I have absolutely no reason I know of to

believe I will get arthritis. (Touch wood, LOL)

Rodney.

> >

> > I tried glucosamine/chondroitin for several months to no effect.

My

> wife likes it.

>

>

> A single data point anecdotal evidence story about glucosamine:

>

> I have two middle-age dogs who were both exhibiting signs of

arthritis

> - hobbling when they got up from the floor, etc. I started them on

> glucosamine/chondroitin supplements (veterinary version) and noticed

> an improvement after about 6 weeks.

>

> I thought it was a good " blind " test, though double-blind (did I

give

> them the real stuff, or the placebo?) would be best.

>

> Diane

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane:

Is arthritis the only (or prime) reason to take glucosamine and

chondroitin?

Is there a reason to take it as a preventative, or is it only

considered a 'cure'? I have absolutely no reason I know of to

believe I will get arthritis. (Touch wood, LOL)

Rodney.

> >

> > I tried glucosamine/chondroitin for several months to no effect.

My

> wife likes it.

>

>

> A single data point anecdotal evidence story about glucosamine:

>

> I have two middle-age dogs who were both exhibiting signs of

arthritis

> - hobbling when they got up from the floor, etc. I started them on

> glucosamine/chondroitin supplements (veterinary version) and noticed

> an improvement after about 6 weeks.

>

> I thought it was a good " blind " test, though double-blind (did I

give

> them the real stuff, or the placebo?) would be best.

>

> Diane

>

[Guest guest]

> Is arthritis the only (or prime) reason to take glucosamine and

> chondroitin?

--------------------------------

Well this is the type of study result that makes me take it:

http://www.kawis.mynetcologne.de/GLUCOS/pavelka.pdf

So you may not have symptoms, but people's joint spaces tend to narrow

over time as you lose cartilage. So this stuff really seems to work.

Now both glucosamine and chondroitin are supposedly " widely available

in foods " , so I'm not sure why - maybe you just need more than food

can give you.

But once you develop severe symptoms, the game is sort of over.

Glucosamine also has pain relieving effects, so its effects in OA

(osteoarthritis) are a bit controversial, but there are several

studies out there suggesting that it preserves the joint spaces of

joints like the knee (which represent cartilage).

[Guest guest]

> Is arthritis the only (or prime) reason to take glucosamine and

> chondroitin?

--------------------------------

Well this is the type of study result that makes me take it:

http://www.kawis.mynetcologne.de/GLUCOS/pavelka.pdf

So you may not have symptoms, but people's joint spaces tend to narrow

over time as you lose cartilage. So this stuff really seems to work.

Now both glucosamine and chondroitin are supposedly " widely available

in foods " , so I'm not sure why - maybe you just need more than food

can give you.

But once you develop severe symptoms, the game is sort of over.

Glucosamine also has pain relieving effects, so its effects in OA

(osteoarthritis) are a bit controversial, but there are several

studies out there suggesting that it preserves the joint spaces of

joints like the knee (which represent cartilage).

[Guest guest]

That is a very interesting study, . Thanks for providing it! I

had no idea glucosamine/chondroitin was useful as a preventative.

Rodney- I take it because it seemed to relieve my knee pain (and later

my dogs' hip pain). I've had two cartilage-smoothing surgeries on one

knee. I read a long time ago that g/c might help and started taking

it. Since I was also resting my knee, it was difficult to de-convolve

what part of the improvement was due to rest and what part was due to

the supplements. I continue to take them because I don't want to risk

getting the knee pain again. I am now able to do jogging,

racewalking, and biking, as long as I do them in moderation.

Diane

>

> > Is arthritis the only (or prime) reason to take glucosamine and

> > chondroitin?

> --------------------------------

> Well this is the type of study result that makes me take it:

>

> http://www.kawis.mynetcologne.de/GLUCOS/pavelka.pdf

>

> So you may not have symptoms, but people's joint spaces tend to narrow

> over time as you lose cartilage. So this stuff really seems to work.

>

> Now both glucosamine and chondroitin are supposedly " widely available

> in foods " , so I'm not sure why - maybe you just need more than food

> can give you.

>

> But once you develop severe symptoms, the game is sort of over.

>

> Glucosamine also has pain relieving effects, so its effects in OA

> (osteoarthritis) are a bit controversial, but there are several

> studies out there suggesting that it preserves the joint spaces of

> joints like the knee (which represent cartilage).

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is a very interesting study, . Thanks for providing it! I

had no idea glucosamine/chondroitin was useful as a preventative.

Rodney- I take it because it seemed to relieve my knee pain (and later

my dogs' hip pain). I've had two cartilage-smoothing surgeries on one

knee. I read a long time ago that g/c might help and started taking

it. Since I was also resting my knee, it was difficult to de-convolve

what part of the improvement was due to rest and what part was due to

the supplements. I continue to take them because I don't want to risk

getting the knee pain again. I am now able to do jogging,

racewalking, and biking, as long as I do them in moderation.

Diane

>

> > Is arthritis the only (or prime) reason to take glucosamine and

> > chondroitin?

> --------------------------------

> Well this is the type of study result that makes me take it:

>

> http://www.kawis.mynetcologne.de/GLUCOS/pavelka.pdf

>

> So you may not have symptoms, but people's joint spaces tend to narrow

> over time as you lose cartilage. So this stuff really seems to work.

>

> Now both glucosamine and chondroitin are supposedly " widely available

> in foods " , so I'm not sure why - maybe you just need more than food

> can give you.

>

> But once you develop severe symptoms, the game is sort of over.

>

> Glucosamine also has pain relieving effects, so its effects in OA

> (osteoarthritis) are a bit controversial, but there are several

> studies out there suggesting that it preserves the joint spaces of

> joints like the knee (which represent cartilage).

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane:

(And thank you for that study)

It is of interest to me because, although I have no reason to suspect

I may ever get arthritis, I am starting to do a modest amount of

weight lifting. Since this will be putting additional amounts of

weight stress in various places I wonder if glucosamine might be

beneficial.

I did read somewhere, I think it was at Dr. Mirkin, that exercise is

itself beneficial for people who have arthritis. So I doubt some

modest weight lifting would increase the chances of getting it.

Nevertheless if we are sure there are no side effects to glucosamine

tehn why not take some. Like most things I would only take a modest

amount once a week.

I am off to check out chondroitin. If anyone has any good info about

it please post.

Rodney.

> >

> > > Is arthritis the only (or prime) reason to take glucosamine and

> > > chondroitin?

> > --------------------------------

> > Well this is the type of study result that makes me take it:

> >

> > http://www.kawis.mynetcologne.de/GLUCOS/pavelka.pdf

> >

> > So you may not have symptoms, but people's joint spaces tend to

narrow

> > over time as you lose cartilage. So this stuff really seems to

work.

> >

> > Now both glucosamine and chondroitin are supposedly " widely

available

> > in foods " , so I'm not sure why - maybe you just need more than

food

> > can give you.

> >

> > But once you develop severe symptoms, the game is sort of over.

> >

> > Glucosamine also has pain relieving effects, so its effects in OA

> > (osteoarthritis) are a bit controversial, but there are several

> > studies out there suggesting that it preserves the joint spaces of

> > joints like the knee (which represent cartilage).

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane:

(And thank you for that study)

It is of interest to me because, although I have no reason to suspect

I may ever get arthritis, I am starting to do a modest amount of

weight lifting. Since this will be putting additional amounts of

weight stress in various places I wonder if glucosamine might be

beneficial.

I did read somewhere, I think it was at Dr. Mirkin, that exercise is

itself beneficial for people who have arthritis. So I doubt some

modest weight lifting would increase the chances of getting it.

Nevertheless if we are sure there are no side effects to glucosamine

tehn why not take some. Like most things I would only take a modest

amount once a week.

I am off to check out chondroitin. If anyone has any good info about

it please post.

Rodney.

> >

> > > Is arthritis the only (or prime) reason to take glucosamine and

> > > chondroitin?

> > --------------------------------

> > Well this is the type of study result that makes me take it:

> >

> > http://www.kawis.mynetcologne.de/GLUCOS/pavelka.pdf

> >

> > So you may not have symptoms, but people's joint spaces tend to

narrow

> > over time as you lose cartilage. So this stuff really seems to

work.

> >

> > Now both glucosamine and chondroitin are supposedly " widely

available

> > in foods " , so I'm not sure why - maybe you just need more than

food

> > can give you.

> >

> > But once you develop severe symptoms, the game is sort of over.

> >

> > Glucosamine also has pain relieving effects, so its effects in OA

> > (osteoarthritis) are a bit controversial, but there are several

> > studies out there suggesting that it preserves the joint spaces of

> > joints like the knee (which represent cartilage).

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rodney wrote:

>Nevertheless if we are sure there are no side effects to glucosamine[...]

Some have suggested best not to take glucosamine unless you have a known

arthritis problem, since there have been indications that glucosamine might

cause insulin resistance. The abstract below is one recent example obtained

from PubMed by searching on glucosamine AND insulin.

Thanks,

Todd

1: Diabetologia. 2005 Oct;48(10):2131-9. Epub 2005 Jul 30.

Acute glucosamine-induced insulin resistance in muscle in vivo is associated

with impaired capillary recruitment.

Wallis MG, ME, Kolka CM, Zhang L, s SM, Rattigan S, MG.

Biochemistry, School of Medicine, University of Tasmania, Private Bag 58,

Hobart, Tasmania 7001, Australia.

<snip>

CONCLUSION/INTERPRETATION:

Glucosamine mediates a major impairment of insulin action in muscle

vasculature

associated with the insulin resistance of muscle. Further studies will be

required to assess whether the impaired capillary recruitment contributes to

insulin resistance.

PMID: 16059714 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Guest guest]

Rodney wrote:

>Nevertheless if we are sure there are no side effects to glucosamine[...]

Some have suggested best not to take glucosamine unless you have a known

arthritis problem, since there have been indications that glucosamine might

cause insulin resistance. The abstract below is one recent example obtained

from PubMed by searching on glucosamine AND insulin.

Thanks,

Todd

1: Diabetologia. 2005 Oct;48(10):2131-9. Epub 2005 Jul 30.

Acute glucosamine-induced insulin resistance in muscle in vivo is associated

with impaired capillary recruitment.

Wallis MG, ME, Kolka CM, Zhang L, s SM, Rattigan S, MG.

Biochemistry, School of Medicine, University of Tasmania, Private Bag 58,

Hobart, Tasmania 7001, Australia.

<snip>

CONCLUSION/INTERPRETATION:

Glucosamine mediates a major impairment of insulin action in muscle

vasculature

associated with the insulin resistance of muscle. Further studies will be

required to assess whether the impaired capillary recruitment contributes to

insulin resistance.

PMID: 16059714 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Guest guest]

Todd Sprenkle wrote:

> Rodney wrote:

> >Nevertheless if we are sure there are no side effects to glucosamine[...]

>

> Some have suggested best not to take glucosamine unless you have

> a known arthritis problem, since there have been indications that

> glucosamine might cause insulin resistance. The abstract below is

> one recent example obtained from PubMed by searching on

> glucosamine AND insulin.

>

<snip>

> PMID: 16059714 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I should have emphasized that these studies were done in animals -- rats in

the case of the specific study I mentioned.

Thanks,

Todd

[Guest guest]

Todd Sprenkle wrote:

> Rodney wrote:

> >Nevertheless if we are sure there are no side effects to glucosamine[...]

>

> Some have suggested best not to take glucosamine unless you have

> a known arthritis problem, since there have been indications that

> glucosamine might cause insulin resistance. The abstract below is

> one recent example obtained from PubMed by searching on

> glucosamine AND insulin.

>

<snip>

> PMID: 16059714 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I should have emphasized that these studies were done in animals -- rats in

the case of the specific study I mentioned.

Thanks,

Todd