Re: More on Vitamin D (????)

[Guest guest]

Rodney wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> LOLOLOL:

>

> Do people around here generally regard the 'Life Extension

> Foundation' as a source of reliable information? I thought they

> did. (If not then goto >>> end).

>

> I just tripped over the following stunning (if true) piece of

> information regarding vitamin D there (granted it is dated February

> 2000) by accident while searching for something else. Here is an

> excerpt:

>

> " Researchers in Japan fed rats a heart attack-friendly diet based on

> vitamin D and cholesterol. (Vitamin D is used by researchers to

> create heart disease in animal models. It causes rapid hardening of

> the aorta. Vitamin D, along with cholesterol, creates both aspects of

> human-like heart disease, i.e., hardening of the arteries and

> lesions) " .

>

> [Now it would hardly be startling, would it, to find that something

> used to cause a nice hardening-up of the arteries in experiments with

> mice would result in, perhaps dramatically, elevated SBP?]

>

> Here is the page at LEF where that quote was found:

>

> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html

>

> Naturally the above does not come with a written guarantee. Anyone

> with information that confirms or refutes it PLEASE post it. In the

> meantime I am beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all, LOL.

>

> Rodney.

>

> :end

Without spinning off into a discussion of possible commercial

imperatives of the LEF (selling supplements?), nor to sound too much

like a broken record.... but perhaps it is worth repeating that A) you

can have too much of a good thing with fat soluble vitamins (like D),

and there can be and probably are huge differences between

supplements and natural sources (like maybe sunlight). I would

personally be more concerned about any association between sunlight and

heart disease but won't hold my breath. FWIW many foods are enriched so

if eating from the public trough one may be getting some D already.

JR

PS: regarding your recent one rat experiments with Vit D supplements,

have you considered or factored in that your body stores Vitamin D (in

adipose) for later use? You might have to lay off the juice for more

than a few days (weeks? months?) to clear your system. Since Vit D is a

" Vitamin " after all the wisdom of totally clearing your system is

dubious, so it looks like you may be exploring a dose/overdose tolerance

threshold experiment. Of course I could be wrong... :-)

[Guest guest]

Rodney wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> LOLOLOL:

>

> Do people around here generally regard the 'Life Extension

> Foundation' as a source of reliable information? I thought they

> did. (If not then goto >>> end).

>

> I just tripped over the following stunning (if true) piece of

> information regarding vitamin D there (granted it is dated February

> 2000) by accident while searching for something else. Here is an

> excerpt:

>

> " Researchers in Japan fed rats a heart attack-friendly diet based on

> vitamin D and cholesterol. (Vitamin D is used by researchers to

> create heart disease in animal models. It causes rapid hardening of

> the aorta. Vitamin D, along with cholesterol, creates both aspects of

> human-like heart disease, i.e., hardening of the arteries and

> lesions) " .

>

> [Now it would hardly be startling, would it, to find that something

> used to cause a nice hardening-up of the arteries in experiments with

> mice would result in, perhaps dramatically, elevated SBP?]

>

> Here is the page at LEF where that quote was found:

>

> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html

>

> Naturally the above does not come with a written guarantee. Anyone

> with information that confirms or refutes it PLEASE post it. In the

> meantime I am beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all, LOL.

>

> Rodney.

>

> :end

Without spinning off into a discussion of possible commercial

imperatives of the LEF (selling supplements?), nor to sound too much

like a broken record.... but perhaps it is worth repeating that A) you

can have too much of a good thing with fat soluble vitamins (like D),

and there can be and probably are huge differences between

supplements and natural sources (like maybe sunlight). I would

personally be more concerned about any association between sunlight and

heart disease but won't hold my breath. FWIW many foods are enriched so

if eating from the public trough one may be getting some D already.

JR

PS: regarding your recent one rat experiments with Vit D supplements,

have you considered or factored in that your body stores Vitamin D (in

adipose) for later use? You might have to lay off the juice for more

than a few days (weeks? months?) to clear your system. Since Vit D is a

" Vitamin " after all the wisdom of totally clearing your system is

dubious, so it looks like you may be exploring a dose/overdose tolerance

threshold experiment. Of course I could be wrong... :-)

[Guest guest]

In rats:

CONCLUSION: These methods can be used to produce calcification models in vivo and in vitro, which save money and time and are easy to manipulate. PMID: 16378124

Regards.

[ ] More on Vitamin D (????)

Hi folks:LOLOLOL:Do people around here generally regard the 'Life Extension Foundation' as a source of reliable information? I thought they did. (If not then goto >>> end).I just tripped over the following stunning (if true) piece of information regarding vitamin D there (granted it is dated February 2000) by accident while searching for something else. Here is an excerpt:"Researchers in Japan fed rats a heart attack-friendly diet based on vitamin D and cholesterol. (Vitamin D is used by researchers to create heart disease in animal models. It causes rapid hardening of the aorta. Vitamin D, along with cholesterol, creates both aspects of human-like heart disease, i.e., hardening of the arteries and lesions)".[Now it would hardly be startling, would it, to find that something used to cause a nice hardening-up of the arteries in experiments with mice would result in, perhaps dramatically, elevated SBP?]Here is the page at LEF where that quote was found:http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.htmlNaturally the above does not come with a written guarantee. Anyone with information that confirms or refutes it PLEASE post it. In the meantime I am beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all, LOL.Rodney.:end

[Guest guest]

In rats:

CONCLUSION: These methods can be used to produce calcification models in vivo and in vitro, which save money and time and are easy to manipulate. PMID: 16378124

Regards.

[ ] More on Vitamin D (????)

Hi folks:LOLOLOL:Do people around here generally regard the 'Life Extension Foundation' as a source of reliable information? I thought they did. (If not then goto >>> end).I just tripped over the following stunning (if true) piece of information regarding vitamin D there (granted it is dated February 2000) by accident while searching for something else. Here is an excerpt:"Researchers in Japan fed rats a heart attack-friendly diet based on vitamin D and cholesterol. (Vitamin D is used by researchers to create heart disease in animal models. It causes rapid hardening of the aorta. Vitamin D, along with cholesterol, creates both aspects of human-like heart disease, i.e., hardening of the arteries and lesions)".[Now it would hardly be startling, would it, to find that something used to cause a nice hardening-up of the arteries in experiments with mice would result in, perhaps dramatically, elevated SBP?]Here is the page at LEF where that quote was found:http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.htmlNaturally the above does not come with a written guarantee. Anyone with information that confirms or refutes it PLEASE post it. In the meantime I am beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all, LOL.Rodney.:end

[Guest guest]

I don't think it's a question of storage. There are mechanisms other than the liver for converting the vit d pill to "force" calcification.

The sunlight vitamin doesn't get to the gut.

Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and MetabolismVolume 82 • Number 12 • December 1, 1997Calcium Absorptive Effects of Vitamin D and Its Major Metabolites*DiscussionWe show here that both Vitamin D3 and 25(OH)D produce dose-dependent increases in calcium absorption efficiency in healthy adult men, and that they do so without evoking a detectable rise in circulating total 1,25(OH)2 D. The effect of vitamin D3 appears to be explainable largely, if not entirely, by conversion to 25(OH)D, there being no correlation between circulating vitamin D3 levels and absorption after adjusting for serum 25(OH)D. Thus, these findings confirm previous reports [4] [5] [6] [7] ,[9] that exogenous 25(OH)D exerts absorptive activity in humans in its own right. As shown in Figure 4 (Figure Not Available) , our dose-response data for 25(OH)D are remarkably similar to those reported earlier by Colodro et al [9] . Further, as reported above and shown in Fig. 1 (Figure Not Available) , the dose-response data indicate that the absorption-promoting activity.

Regards.

Re: [ ] More on Vitamin D (????)

Rodney wrote:> Hi folks:> > LOLOLOL:> > Do people around here generally regard the 'Life Extension > Foundation' as a source of reliable information? I thought they > did. (If not then goto >>> end).> > I just tripped over the following stunning (if true) piece of > information regarding vitamin D there (granted it is dated February > 2000) by accident while searching for something else. Here is an > excerpt:> > "Researchers in Japan fed rats a heart attack-friendly diet based on > vitamin D and cholesterol. (Vitamin D is used by researchers to > create heart disease in animal models. It causes rapid hardening of > the aorta. Vitamin D, along with cholesterol, creates both aspects of > human-like heart disease, i.e., hardening of the arteries and > lesions)".> > [Now it would hardly be startling, would it, to find that something > used to cause a nice hardening-up of the arteries in experiments with > mice would result in, perhaps dramatically, elevated SBP?]> > Here is the page at LEF where that quote was found:> > http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html> > Naturally the above does not come with a written guarantee. Anyone > with information that confirms or refutes it PLEASE post it. In the > meantime I am beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all, LOL.> > Rodney.> > :endWithout spinning off into a discussion of possible commercial imperatives of the LEF (selling supplements?), nor to sound too much like a broken record.... but perhaps it is worth repeating that A) you can have too much of a good thing with fat soluble vitamins (like D), and there can be and probably are huge differences between supplements and natural sources (like maybe sunlight). I would personally be more concerned about any association between sunlight and heart disease but won't hold my breath. FWIW many foods are enriched so if eating from the public trough one may be getting some D already.JRPS: regarding your recent one rat experiments with Vit D supplements, have you considered or factored in that your body stores Vitamin D (in adipose) for later use? You might have to lay off the juice for more than a few days (weeks? months?) to clear your system. Since Vit D is a "Vitamin" after all the wisdom of totally clearing your system is dubious, so it looks like you may be exploring a dose/overdose tolerance threshold experiment. Of course I could be wrong... :-)

[Guest guest]

I don't think it's a question of storage. There are mechanisms other than the liver for converting the vit d pill to "force" calcification.

The sunlight vitamin doesn't get to the gut.

Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and MetabolismVolume 82 • Number 12 • December 1, 1997Calcium Absorptive Effects of Vitamin D and Its Major Metabolites*DiscussionWe show here that both Vitamin D3 and 25(OH)D produce dose-dependent increases in calcium absorption efficiency in healthy adult men, and that they do so without evoking a detectable rise in circulating total 1,25(OH)2 D. The effect of vitamin D3 appears to be explainable largely, if not entirely, by conversion to 25(OH)D, there being no correlation between circulating vitamin D3 levels and absorption after adjusting for serum 25(OH)D. Thus, these findings confirm previous reports [4] [5] [6] [7] ,[9] that exogenous 25(OH)D exerts absorptive activity in humans in its own right. As shown in Figure 4 (Figure Not Available) , our dose-response data for 25(OH)D are remarkably similar to those reported earlier by Colodro et al [9] . Further, as reported above and shown in Fig. 1 (Figure Not Available) , the dose-response data indicate that the absorption-promoting activity.

Regards.

Re: [ ] More on Vitamin D (????)

Rodney wrote:> Hi folks:> > LOLOLOL:> > Do people around here generally regard the 'Life Extension > Foundation' as a source of reliable information? I thought they > did. (If not then goto >>> end).> > I just tripped over the following stunning (if true) piece of > information regarding vitamin D there (granted it is dated February > 2000) by accident while searching for something else. Here is an > excerpt:> > "Researchers in Japan fed rats a heart attack-friendly diet based on > vitamin D and cholesterol. (Vitamin D is used by researchers to > create heart disease in animal models. It causes rapid hardening of > the aorta. Vitamin D, along with cholesterol, creates both aspects of > human-like heart disease, i.e., hardening of the arteries and > lesions)".> > [Now it would hardly be startling, would it, to find that something > used to cause a nice hardening-up of the arteries in experiments with > mice would result in, perhaps dramatically, elevated SBP?]> > Here is the page at LEF where that quote was found:> > http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html> > Naturally the above does not come with a written guarantee. Anyone > with information that confirms or refutes it PLEASE post it. In the > meantime I am beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all, LOL.> > Rodney.> > :endWithout spinning off into a discussion of possible commercial imperatives of the LEF (selling supplements?), nor to sound too much like a broken record.... but perhaps it is worth repeating that A) you can have too much of a good thing with fat soluble vitamins (like D), and there can be and probably are huge differences between supplements and natural sources (like maybe sunlight). I would personally be more concerned about any association between sunlight and heart disease but won't hold my breath. FWIW many foods are enriched so if eating from the public trough one may be getting some D already.JRPS: regarding your recent one rat experiments with Vit D supplements, have you considered or factored in that your body stores Vitamin D (in adipose) for later use? You might have to lay off the juice for more than a few days (weeks? months?) to clear your system. Since Vit D is a "Vitamin" after all the wisdom of totally clearing your system is dubious, so it looks like you may be exploring a dose/overdose tolerance threshold experiment. Of course I could be wrong... :-)

[Guest guest]

> Naturally the above does not come with a written

> guarantee. Anyone with information that confirms or

> refutes it PLEASE post it. In the meantime I am

> beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all,

> LOL.

The rats were fed Vitamin D2 not D3. D2 is known to

be very toxic in larger amounts.

Logan

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> Naturally the above does not come with a written

> guarantee. Anyone with information that confirms or

> refutes it PLEASE post it. In the meantime I am

> beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all,

> LOL.

The rats were fed Vitamin D2 not D3. D2 is known to

be very toxic in larger amounts.

Logan

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Logan:

Thanks for that information. Could you please provide sources for

your assertions that:

A) Those rats were fed vitamin D2, and

D2 is highly toxic?

According to the following source (Cornell) D3 is more than ten times

as toxic as D2:

" Animals with access to sunlight usually do not need dietary vitamin

D, because ultraviolet light converts 7-dehydrocholesterol (abundant

in skin) to the vitamin D3 cholecalciferol. Vitamin D2

(ergocalciferol) is created from the plant steroid ergosterol. One

International Unit of Vitamin D is 0.025 micrograms of either D2 or

D3. D2 is catabolized much sooner than D3 (at least in chicks) and is

not as readily converted to the 25OH form in overdose situations.

Perhaps that is why D3 is more than 10 times as toxic as D2. "

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/courses/as625/625vitd.html

Thank you.

Rodney.

>

> > Naturally the above does not come with a written

> > guarantee. Anyone with information that confirms or

>

> > refutes it PLEASE post it. In the meantime I am

> > beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all,

> > LOL.

>

> The rats were fed Vitamin D2 not D3. D2 is known to

> be very toxic in larger amounts.

>

> Logan

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Logan:

Thanks for that information. Could you please provide sources for

your assertions that:

A) Those rats were fed vitamin D2, and

D2 is highly toxic?

According to the following source (Cornell) D3 is more than ten times

as toxic as D2:

" Animals with access to sunlight usually do not need dietary vitamin

D, because ultraviolet light converts 7-dehydrocholesterol (abundant

in skin) to the vitamin D3 cholecalciferol. Vitamin D2

(ergocalciferol) is created from the plant steroid ergosterol. One

International Unit of Vitamin D is 0.025 micrograms of either D2 or

D3. D2 is catabolized much sooner than D3 (at least in chicks) and is

not as readily converted to the 25OH form in overdose situations.

Perhaps that is why D3 is more than 10 times as toxic as D2. "

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/courses/as625/625vitd.html

Thank you.

Rodney.

>

> > Naturally the above does not come with a written

> > guarantee. Anyone with information that confirms or

>

> > refutes it PLEASE post it. In the meantime I am

> > beginning to wonder if I am not a freak after all,

> > LOL.

>

> The rats were fed Vitamin D2 not D3. D2 is known to

> be very toxic in larger amounts.

>

> Logan

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>