Re: Re: Sleeping Pills vs. CR?

[Guest guest]

At 10:09 AM 3/16/2006, you wrote:

>Hi folks:

>

>Remember the case about a year ago, where someone drove thirty miles

>in the middle of the night, murdered someone, and then drove home,

>and claimed they had no memory of it and had done it in their sleep?

Benzodiazepines, barbituates, and other tranquilizers

cause anterograde amnesia; that is, your brain stops writing new

memories to long term memory. This is also a property of sleep, so you'd

expect this from a sleeping pill. Different drugs in the family will have

different ratios of effects, but there's also a matter of dose. People

with anxiety disorders take Xanax or Klonopin in the morning and go to

work. Drugs like that have a half life in the system between 12-24

hours. (Modern) Sleeping pills are a stronger dose of something that

washes out in a few hours.

Like any mind-altering drug, there are people who take Ambien

to " trip " or " get high " , and some reports can be found here:

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/zolpidem/

One theme that emerges is that doses > 20 mg result in intense

amnesia. Unlike, say, amphetamines or opiates, it's not a matter of

bigger dose -> more fun, but bigger dose -> forget what happened.

That said, benzodiazepines have wiped barbituates because they

are relatively safe in overdose. Unlike barbs, BZs produce little

respiratory depression, so an overdose is more likely to result in

oversedation than death. After all, you don't want to hand a suicide

weapon to somebody who's taking meds for psychiatric problems.

[Guest guest]

At 10:09 AM 3/16/2006, you wrote:

>Hi folks:

>

>Remember the case about a year ago, where someone drove thirty miles

>in the middle of the night, murdered someone, and then drove home,

>and claimed they had no memory of it and had done it in their sleep?

Benzodiazepines, barbituates, and other tranquilizers

cause anterograde amnesia; that is, your brain stops writing new

memories to long term memory. This is also a property of sleep, so you'd

expect this from a sleeping pill. Different drugs in the family will have

different ratios of effects, but there's also a matter of dose. People

with anxiety disorders take Xanax or Klonopin in the morning and go to

work. Drugs like that have a half life in the system between 12-24

hours. (Modern) Sleeping pills are a stronger dose of something that

washes out in a few hours.

Like any mind-altering drug, there are people who take Ambien

to " trip " or " get high " , and some reports can be found here:

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/zolpidem/

One theme that emerges is that doses > 20 mg result in intense

amnesia. Unlike, say, amphetamines or opiates, it's not a matter of

bigger dose -> more fun, but bigger dose -> forget what happened.

That said, benzodiazepines have wiped barbituates because they

are relatively safe in overdose. Unlike barbs, BZs produce little

respiratory depression, so an overdose is more likely to result in

oversedation than death. After all, you don't want to hand a suicide

weapon to somebody who's taking meds for psychiatric problems.

[Guest guest]

I heard a radio program on BZs and the elderly a while ago -- I'm not up on

the literature, but despite the relative safety, in geriatrics, they

apparently can have devastating effects, especially due to the addictive

nature and the change in effect they have in the elderly.

-

Re: [ ] Re: Sleeping Pills vs. CR?

At 10:09 AM 3/16/2006, you wrote:

>Hi folks:

>

>Remember the case about a year ago, where someone drove thirty miles

>in the middle of the night, murdered someone, and then drove home,

>and claimed they had no memory of it and had done it in their sleep?

Benzodiazepines, barbituates, and other tranquilizers

cause anterograde amnesia; that is, your brain stops writing new

memories to long term memory. This is also a property of sleep, so you'd

expect this from a sleeping pill. Different drugs in the family will have

different ratios of effects, but there's also a matter of dose. People

with anxiety disorders take Xanax or Klonopin in the morning and go to

work. Drugs like that have a half life in the system between 12-24

hours. (Modern) Sleeping pills are a stronger dose of something that

washes out in a few hours.

Like any mind-altering drug, there are people who take Ambien

to " trip " or " get high " , and some reports can be found here:

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/zolpidem/

One theme that emerges is that doses > 20 mg result in intense

amnesia. Unlike, say, amphetamines or opiates, it's not a matter of

bigger dose -> more fun, but bigger dose -> forget what happened.

That said, benzodiazepines have wiped barbituates because they

are relatively safe in overdose. Unlike barbs, BZs produce little

respiratory depression, so an overdose is more likely to result in

oversedation than death. After all, you don't want to hand a suicide

weapon to somebody who's taking meds for psychiatric problems.

[Guest guest]

I heard a radio program on BZs and the elderly a while ago -- I'm not up on

the literature, but despite the relative safety, in geriatrics, they

apparently can have devastating effects, especially due to the addictive

nature and the change in effect they have in the elderly.

-

Re: [ ] Re: Sleeping Pills vs. CR?

At 10:09 AM 3/16/2006, you wrote:

>Hi folks:

>

>Remember the case about a year ago, where someone drove thirty miles

>in the middle of the night, murdered someone, and then drove home,

>and claimed they had no memory of it and had done it in their sleep?

Benzodiazepines, barbituates, and other tranquilizers

cause anterograde amnesia; that is, your brain stops writing new

memories to long term memory. This is also a property of sleep, so you'd

expect this from a sleeping pill. Different drugs in the family will have

different ratios of effects, but there's also a matter of dose. People

with anxiety disorders take Xanax or Klonopin in the morning and go to

work. Drugs like that have a half life in the system between 12-24

hours. (Modern) Sleeping pills are a stronger dose of something that

washes out in a few hours.

Like any mind-altering drug, there are people who take Ambien

to " trip " or " get high " , and some reports can be found here:

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/zolpidem/

One theme that emerges is that doses > 20 mg result in intense

amnesia. Unlike, say, amphetamines or opiates, it's not a matter of

bigger dose -> more fun, but bigger dose -> forget what happened.

That said, benzodiazepines have wiped barbituates because they

are relatively safe in overdose. Unlike barbs, BZs produce little

respiratory depression, so an overdose is more likely to result in

oversedation than death. After all, you don't want to hand a suicide

weapon to somebody who's taking meds for psychiatric problems.

[Guest guest]

If I had a strange or bad reaction, I certainly would never take a second pill. I now take a SP only occasionally (my sleep has improved a lot after I started doing yoga) and have never had any bad reaction.

Someone e-mailed me that SP's shorten lifespan. My mother, who lived til about 98 took a sleeping pill every single night in her last 10 years or so, with no ill effects. Also, she was healthy and maintained her own apt including her own cleaning, grocery shopping, cooking etc. til the age of 971/2 (even though I know she's only one mouse). I should be so lucky.

on 3/17/2006 1:39 AM, Gifford at james.gifford@... wrote:

I heard a radio program on BZs and the elderly a while ago -- I'm not up on

the literature, but despite the relative safety, in geriatrics, they

apparently can have devastating effects, especially due to the addictive

nature and the change in effect they have in the elderly.

-

[Guest guest]

If I had a strange or bad reaction, I certainly would never take a second pill. I now take a SP only occasionally (my sleep has improved a lot after I started doing yoga) and have never had any bad reaction.

Someone e-mailed me that SP's shorten lifespan. My mother, who lived til about 98 took a sleeping pill every single night in her last 10 years or so, with no ill effects. Also, she was healthy and maintained her own apt including her own cleaning, grocery shopping, cooking etc. til the age of 971/2 (even though I know she's only one mouse). I should be so lucky.

on 3/17/2006 1:39 AM, Gifford at james.gifford@... wrote:

I heard a radio program on BZs and the elderly a while ago -- I'm not up on

the literature, but despite the relative safety, in geriatrics, they

apparently can have devastating effects, especially due to the addictive

nature and the change in effect they have in the elderly.

-

[Guest guest]

Francesca, it occurs to me I have never taken an SP, and I wonder exactly why people take them. Is it because they simply can't sleep? Or is there a medical reason to force say 8 hrs?

I have been given a valium in a hospital prior to tests.

I usually get up for an hour or so at 2AM or so, then go back to bed, but I never thought it a problem.

I hafta wonder why they'd shorten lifespan, unless they effect the liver.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Re: Sleeping Pills vs. CR?

If I had a strange or bad reaction, I certainly would never take a second pill. I now take a SP only occasionally (my sleep has improved a lot after I started doing yoga) and have never had any bad reaction. Someone e-mailed me that SP's shorten lifespan. My mother, who lived til about 98 took a sleeping pill every single night in her last 10 years or so, with no ill effects. Also, she was healthy and maintained her own apt including her own cleaning, grocery shopping, cooking etc. til the age of 971/2 (even though I know she's only one mouse). I should be so lucky.on 3/17/2006 1:39 AM, Gifford at james.gifford@... wrote:

I heard a radio program on BZs and the elderly a while ago -- I'm not up onthe literature, but despite the relative safety, in geriatrics, theyapparently can have devastating effects, especially due to the addictivenature and the change in effect they have in the elderly.-

[Guest guest]

Francesca, it occurs to me I have never taken an SP, and I wonder exactly why people take them. Is it because they simply can't sleep? Or is there a medical reason to force say 8 hrs?

I have been given a valium in a hospital prior to tests.

I usually get up for an hour or so at 2AM or so, then go back to bed, but I never thought it a problem.

I hafta wonder why they'd shorten lifespan, unless they effect the liver.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Re: Sleeping Pills vs. CR?

If I had a strange or bad reaction, I certainly would never take a second pill. I now take a SP only occasionally (my sleep has improved a lot after I started doing yoga) and have never had any bad reaction. Someone e-mailed me that SP's shorten lifespan. My mother, who lived til about 98 took a sleeping pill every single night in her last 10 years or so, with no ill effects. Also, she was healthy and maintained her own apt including her own cleaning, grocery shopping, cooking etc. til the age of 971/2 (even though I know she's only one mouse). I should be so lucky.on 3/17/2006 1:39 AM, Gifford at james.gifford@... wrote:

I heard a radio program on BZs and the elderly a while ago -- I'm not up onthe literature, but despite the relative safety, in geriatrics, theyapparently can have devastating effects, especially due to the addictivenature and the change in effect they have in the elderly.-

[Guest guest]

jwwright wrote:

> Francesca, it occurs to me I have never taken an SP, and I wonder

> exactly why people take them. Is it because they simply can't sleep? Or

> is there a medical reason to force say 8 hrs?

> I have been given a valium in a hospital prior to tests.

> I usually get up for an hour or so at 2AM or so, then go back to bed,

> but I never thought it a problem.

> I hafta wonder why they'd shorten lifespan, unless they effect the liver.

>

> Regards.

>

>

It is pretty well documented that sleep (actually alerting) mechanisms

deteriorate with age, affecting sleep quality. A little " mother's

helper " if it does no other harm, might be useful for older

individuals... IMO for most, sleep could be better managed by other

techniques. Just like you don't see too many cat skeletons up in trees,

I don't think I've ever experienced two night in a row of sleep

difficulty... bad sleep one night usually corrects itself by making me

more tired the next night.

Now in today's culture of pills for this and that, I can imagine

medicating " go to sleep " with others to wake up by. I wonder how those

cavemen ever survived without.... :-)

JR

[Guest guest]

jwwright wrote:

> Francesca, it occurs to me I have never taken an SP, and I wonder

> exactly why people take them. Is it because they simply can't sleep? Or

> is there a medical reason to force say 8 hrs?

> I have been given a valium in a hospital prior to tests.

> I usually get up for an hour or so at 2AM or so, then go back to bed,

> but I never thought it a problem.

> I hafta wonder why they'd shorten lifespan, unless they effect the liver.

>

> Regards.

>

>

It is pretty well documented that sleep (actually alerting) mechanisms

deteriorate with age, affecting sleep quality. A little " mother's

helper " if it does no other harm, might be useful for older

individuals... IMO for most, sleep could be better managed by other

techniques. Just like you don't see too many cat skeletons up in trees,

I don't think I've ever experienced two night in a row of sleep

difficulty... bad sleep one night usually corrects itself by making me

more tired the next night.

Now in today's culture of pills for this and that, I can imagine

medicating " go to sleep " with others to wake up by. I wonder how those

cavemen ever survived without.... :-)

JR

[Guest guest]

Sleep deterioration with age seems to run in my family. I noticed it first when I approached menopause at which time i asked the doctor if my bad sleep was normal. He said " yes " . At that time a few sips of wine put me out like a light and that was all I needed.

As mentioned, my mother, healthy til 97 1/2 couldn't sleep without pills the last years of her life. Mine has improved actually in the past year with yoga but now and then I still can't fall asleep and need a little " help " . And if sleeping away from home, I usually have trouble falling asleep. I alternate pills and Remeron on those occasions and when I take Remeron it's only 1/4 to 1/3 pill, not a whole one. So the SPs might only be once a month or so. Not enough to worry about and I hope more info on sleep will be discovered someday and why sleep deteriorates with age. In the meantime I'll use these " aids " . Unlike , it doesn't work for me to " make up for it " the next night. If only........

My husband rarely sleeps more than 5 hours a night but his waking life does not seem to suffer for it. Occasionally he naps.

on 3/17/2006 10:59 AM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

Francesca, it occurs to me I have never taken an SP, and I wonder exactly why people take them. Is it because they simply can't sleep? Or is there a medical reason to force say 8 hrs?

I have been given a valium in a hospital prior to tests.

I usually get up for an hour or so at 2AM or so, then go back to bed, but I never thought it a problem.

I hafta wonder why they'd shorten lifespan, unless they effect the liver.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Sleep deterioration with age seems to run in my family. I noticed it first when I approached menopause at which time i asked the doctor if my bad sleep was normal. He said " yes " . At that time a few sips of wine put me out like a light and that was all I needed.

As mentioned, my mother, healthy til 97 1/2 couldn't sleep without pills the last years of her life. Mine has improved actually in the past year with yoga but now and then I still can't fall asleep and need a little " help " . And if sleeping away from home, I usually have trouble falling asleep. I alternate pills and Remeron on those occasions and when I take Remeron it's only 1/4 to 1/3 pill, not a whole one. So the SPs might only be once a month or so. Not enough to worry about and I hope more info on sleep will be discovered someday and why sleep deteriorates with age. In the meantime I'll use these " aids " . Unlike , it doesn't work for me to " make up for it " the next night. If only........

My husband rarely sleeps more than 5 hours a night but his waking life does not seem to suffer for it. Occasionally he naps.

on 3/17/2006 10:59 AM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

Francesca, it occurs to me I have never taken an SP, and I wonder exactly why people take them. Is it because they simply can't sleep? Or is there a medical reason to force say 8 hrs?

I have been given a valium in a hospital prior to tests.

I usually get up for an hour or so at 2AM or so, then go back to bed, but I never thought it a problem.

I hafta wonder why they'd shorten lifespan, unless they effect the liver.

Regards.