sample diet (was Re: Applicability of CR to Humans)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the comments, ,

I'm referencing my experience. Kraut I do not eat for sure.

I do eat beans, just not dried beans. Available are frozen immature limas, butter beans, black-eyed peas, Crowder peas. Those and English peas, corn, and of course wheat.

I guess there are glucans in immature beans? I just have a problem with dried beans.

I also have a problem with raw celery, raw onions, raw garlic, and raw spinach. I do eat a little raw spinach but avoid cabbage, raw or cooked. Some fibers are different than others.

I never found a way to cook dried beans and eat more than maybe 2 oz. Even if they don't tear up my gut, they raise my BP. I have no idea why. Allergies to food are one of the reasons I switched to a bland diet to find out what caused the problems.

Just giving up prepared wheat products lowered my BP enough to drop 66% of my betablocker, plus it allowed me to control the BP. Now I can eat some whole kernel wheat bread.

My experience is I don't need a lot of protein, 56 gms will do. So milk or yogurt add enough to the plant protein. I don't eat meat every day, unless I'm testing something.

Recognize I had to find my own diet that fit me and lowered my BP. And that drives my decisions mostly. Also, I don't have a bloodsugar problem (87).

Regards.

[ ] sample diet (was Re: Applicability of CR to Humans)

>> There is maybe an optimum set of foods that provide the right vitamins and minerals, but that merely scratches the surface maybe.> There are literally thousands of "herbs" that provide thousands of chemicals for a thousand activities and we have very little data inre to those. > > So I don't see the task so much as reducing calories or weight as is it finding those things I can eat that will help and not do harm. Probably each persons requirements will be different.> > Perhaps:> 4 oz prune juice> 8 oz orange juice (no Ca and vit D added)> 0.5 tsp of cod liver oil> 1.4 oz walnuts> 2 oz carrots> 7 oz canned papaya, guava, pineapple> > 2 oz of whole kernel bread> 3 oz chicken breast, mustard, > vinegar, > salsa made with tomatoes, red chili peppers, red sweet peppers, onions, garlic> romaine lettuce, cucumber, tomatoes, spinach, mixed other salad greens, chopped celery (2 oz)> steamed broccoli, cauliflower, celery, green beans with rosemary, > yellow corn, English peas, immature limas or black eyed peas, > baked sweet potato> > 0.5 oz of peanuts,> > plain yogurt with blueberries or cherries> > no cabbage, no MV, no dried beans of any kind cooked any way, not more than 2 oz of raw celery. > > Just my take.Why are you explicitly excluding the above items? Fermented cabbage(i.e., sauerkraut and kimchi) have recently received much good pressfor their health-sustaining properties, mostly due to the lactobacillus.

I may try that next year. Different L Bacillus than yogurt?And beans, with all those "yummy" glucans, etc., why not include them?Are you referencing their relatively high calorie content? No.

In moderation, however, I think you can add them, especially as your proposal here is that ON is more important than CR.

I'm not saying ON is more important. I still do 1800 kcals.

I simply realized that a MV is not a controllable way to get vitamins. Kinda of NEXT phase.

I recently decide to try more yogurt, because Dannon plain has no Vit D. I can tell you yogurt gives me wild dreams, like my old toprol dreams. I'm not really liking that.

Same with some buttermilk minus D.

I've maintained my weight drop for 6 yrs now.

Regards.

Thanks,-

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the comments, ,

I'm referencing my experience. Kraut I do not eat for sure.

I do eat beans, just not dried beans. Available are frozen immature limas, butter beans, black-eyed peas, Crowder peas. Those and English peas, corn, and of course wheat.

I guess there are glucans in immature beans? I just have a problem with dried beans.

I also have a problem with raw celery, raw onions, raw garlic, and raw spinach. I do eat a little raw spinach but avoid cabbage, raw or cooked. Some fibers are different than others.

I never found a way to cook dried beans and eat more than maybe 2 oz. Even if they don't tear up my gut, they raise my BP. I have no idea why. Allergies to food are one of the reasons I switched to a bland diet to find out what caused the problems.

Just giving up prepared wheat products lowered my BP enough to drop 66% of my betablocker, plus it allowed me to control the BP. Now I can eat some whole kernel wheat bread.

My experience is I don't need a lot of protein, 56 gms will do. So milk or yogurt add enough to the plant protein. I don't eat meat every day, unless I'm testing something.

Recognize I had to find my own diet that fit me and lowered my BP. And that drives my decisions mostly. Also, I don't have a bloodsugar problem (87).

Regards.

[ ] sample diet (was Re: Applicability of CR to Humans)

>> There is maybe an optimum set of foods that provide the right vitamins and minerals, but that merely scratches the surface maybe.> There are literally thousands of "herbs" that provide thousands of chemicals for a thousand activities and we have very little data inre to those. > > So I don't see the task so much as reducing calories or weight as is it finding those things I can eat that will help and not do harm. Probably each persons requirements will be different.> > Perhaps:> 4 oz prune juice> 8 oz orange juice (no Ca and vit D added)> 0.5 tsp of cod liver oil> 1.4 oz walnuts> 2 oz carrots> 7 oz canned papaya, guava, pineapple> > 2 oz of whole kernel bread> 3 oz chicken breast, mustard, > vinegar, > salsa made with tomatoes, red chili peppers, red sweet peppers, onions, garlic> romaine lettuce, cucumber, tomatoes, spinach, mixed other salad greens, chopped celery (2 oz)> steamed broccoli, cauliflower, celery, green beans with rosemary, > yellow corn, English peas, immature limas or black eyed peas, > baked sweet potato> > 0.5 oz of peanuts,> > plain yogurt with blueberries or cherries> > no cabbage, no MV, no dried beans of any kind cooked any way, not more than 2 oz of raw celery. > > Just my take.Why are you explicitly excluding the above items? Fermented cabbage(i.e., sauerkraut and kimchi) have recently received much good pressfor their health-sustaining properties, mostly due to the lactobacillus.

I may try that next year. Different L Bacillus than yogurt?And beans, with all those "yummy" glucans, etc., why not include them?Are you referencing their relatively high calorie content? No.

In moderation, however, I think you can add them, especially as your proposal here is that ON is more important than CR.

I'm not saying ON is more important. I still do 1800 kcals.

I simply realized that a MV is not a controllable way to get vitamins. Kinda of NEXT phase.

I recently decide to try more yogurt, because Dannon plain has no Vit D. I can tell you yogurt gives me wild dreams, like my old toprol dreams. I'm not really liking that.

Same with some buttermilk minus D.

I've maintained my weight drop for 6 yrs now.

Regards.

Thanks,-

[Guest guest]

I perhaps "inveigh" against prepared foods in general.

Cabbage is too much fiber - a gut blocker even at 2 oz - a feature of my gut perhaps, a feature of aging perhaps, but quite an undesirable feature. There is broccoli.

Raw spinach too much, is a blocker also. I can eat too much fiber.

Now if there is something in kimchi, eg, that is beneficial, let's identify it, by name and see what it does and where it goes in the body.

Kraut I gave up a long time ago. Too much salt I guess. The last time was in a Fredericksburg German restaurant and there aren't enough bathrooms between there and Houston.

Regards.

[ ] sample diet (was Re: Applicability of CR to Humans)

JW:Perhaps you can tell us why you eschew cabbage, and kraut, "for sure." I'm assuming it couldn't be the live cultures because you do eat yogurt. Does it not agree with you, maybe you don't like the taste, or it raises your BP (like dried beans)? Any studies that indicate the hazards of cabbage and kraut would be welcome or is it solely a personal thing? I seem to recall you inveighing against fermented foods in the past.Mike> >> > There is maybe an optimum set of foods that provide the right vitamins and minerals, > but that merely scratches the surface maybe.> > There are literally thousands of "herbs" that provide thousands of chemicals for a > thousand activities and we have very little data inre to those. > > > > So I don't see the task so much as reducing calories or weight as is it finding those > things I can eat that will help and not do harm. Probably each persons requirements will > be different.> > > > Perhaps:> > 4 oz prune juice> > 8 oz orange juice (no Ca and vit D added)> > 0.5 tsp of cod liver oil> > 1.4 oz walnuts> > 2 oz carrots> > 7 oz canned papaya, guava, pineapple> > > > 2 oz of whole kernel bread> > 3 oz chicken breast, mustard, > > vinegar, > > salsa made with tomatoes, red chili peppers, red sweet peppers, onions, garlic> > romaine lettuce, cucumber, tomatoes, spinach, mixed other salad greens, chopped > celery (2 oz)> > steamed broccoli, cauliflower, celery, green beans with rosemary, > > yellow corn, English peas, immature limas or black eyed peas, > > baked sweet potato> > > > 0.5 oz of peanuts,> > > > plain yogurt with blueberries or cherries> > > > no cabbage, no MV, no dried beans of any kind cooked any way, not more than 2 oz of > raw celery. > > > > Just my take.> > Why are you explicitly excluding the above items? Fermented cabbage> (i.e., sauerkraut and kimchi) have recently received much good press> for their health-sustaining properties, mostly due to the lactobacillus.> I may try that next year. Different L Bacillus than yogurt?> > And beans, with all those "yummy" glucans, etc., why not include them?> Are you referencing their relatively high calorie content? No. > > In moderation, however, I think you can add them, especially as your proposal here is that ON is more important than CR. > I'm not saying ON is more important. I still do 1800 kcals. > I simply realized that a MV is not a controllable way to get vitamins. Kinda of NEXT phase. > > I recently decide to try more yogurt, because Dannon plain has no Vit D. I can tell you yogurt gives me wild dreams, like my old toprol dreams. I'm not really liking that. > Same with some buttermilk minus D. > > I've maintained my weight drop for 6 yrs now.> Regards.> > Thanks,> -

[Guest guest]

I perhaps "inveigh" against prepared foods in general.

Cabbage is too much fiber - a gut blocker even at 2 oz - a feature of my gut perhaps, a feature of aging perhaps, but quite an undesirable feature. There is broccoli.

Raw spinach too much, is a blocker also. I can eat too much fiber.

Now if there is something in kimchi, eg, that is beneficial, let's identify it, by name and see what it does and where it goes in the body.

Kraut I gave up a long time ago. Too much salt I guess. The last time was in a Fredericksburg German restaurant and there aren't enough bathrooms between there and Houston.

Regards.

[ ] sample diet (was Re: Applicability of CR to Humans)

JW:Perhaps you can tell us why you eschew cabbage, and kraut, "for sure." I'm assuming it couldn't be the live cultures because you do eat yogurt. Does it not agree with you, maybe you don't like the taste, or it raises your BP (like dried beans)? Any studies that indicate the hazards of cabbage and kraut would be welcome or is it solely a personal thing? I seem to recall you inveighing against fermented foods in the past.Mike> >> > There is maybe an optimum set of foods that provide the right vitamins and minerals, > but that merely scratches the surface maybe.> > There are literally thousands of "herbs" that provide thousands of chemicals for a > thousand activities and we have very little data inre to those. > > > > So I don't see the task so much as reducing calories or weight as is it finding those > things I can eat that will help and not do harm. Probably each persons requirements will > be different.> > > > Perhaps:> > 4 oz prune juice> > 8 oz orange juice (no Ca and vit D added)> > 0.5 tsp of cod liver oil> > 1.4 oz walnuts> > 2 oz carrots> > 7 oz canned papaya, guava, pineapple> > > > 2 oz of whole kernel bread> > 3 oz chicken breast, mustard, > > vinegar, > > salsa made with tomatoes, red chili peppers, red sweet peppers, onions, garlic> > romaine lettuce, cucumber, tomatoes, spinach, mixed other salad greens, chopped > celery (2 oz)> > steamed broccoli, cauliflower, celery, green beans with rosemary, > > yellow corn, English peas, immature limas or black eyed peas, > > baked sweet potato> > > > 0.5 oz of peanuts,> > > > plain yogurt with blueberries or cherries> > > > no cabbage, no MV, no dried beans of any kind cooked any way, not more than 2 oz of > raw celery. > > > > Just my take.> > Why are you explicitly excluding the above items? Fermented cabbage> (i.e., sauerkraut and kimchi) have recently received much good press> for their health-sustaining properties, mostly due to the lactobacillus.> I may try that next year. Different L Bacillus than yogurt?> > And beans, with all those "yummy" glucans, etc., why not include them?> Are you referencing their relatively high calorie content? No. > > In moderation, however, I think you can add them, especially as your proposal here is that ON is more important than CR. > I'm not saying ON is more important. I still do 1800 kcals. > I simply realized that a MV is not a controllable way to get vitamins. Kinda of NEXT phase. > > I recently decide to try more yogurt, because Dannon plain has no Vit D. I can tell you yogurt gives me wild dreams, like my old toprol dreams. I'm not really liking that. > Same with some buttermilk minus D. > > I've maintained my weight drop for 6 yrs now.> Regards.> > Thanks,> -

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm not saying ON is more important. I still do 1800 kcals.

Sorry, I misunderstood then. Certainly, though I don't know

your height and weight, you seem to be on a stricter CRON diet

than myself. I started at 1900-2000 calories about 2 years

ago, but had problems maintaining that level. So, I upped my

calorie intake over time to 2300. I am now back to 2000-2100

for the last month or so and doing OK. (And to be honest,

as most studies show, I am probably underestimating in all

these figures despite using tracking software, as I ignore

the tablespoon of salsa, hot sauce, and other condiments here

and there.)

-

[Guest guest]

Well you may be a lot younger. I actually got my intake by trial and error, BUT it matches the Benedict equation pretty closely. If I did more work, I'd need more energy. I use about 250 just up and around (UAR) over my BMR.

For example, today at 70.26 yo, 69 in ht, 175 #, BMR is 1561. Add 250 for UAR. And if I walk 3 miles I could add 300 kcals or lose some weight. Adding the 300 would be 2111 kcals total. Not adding would be -1.4 #.

If I was 35 yo like you, my requirement would be 2350 kcals.

Regards.

[ ] sample diet (was Re: Applicability of CR to Humans)

>> I'm not saying ON is more important. I still do 1800 kcals.Sorry, I misunderstood then. Certainly, though I don't knowyour height and weight, you seem to be on a stricter CRON dietthan myself. I started at 1900-2000 calories about 2 yearsago, but had problems maintaining that level. So, I upped mycalorie intake over time to 2300. I am now back to 2000-2100for the last month or so and doing OK. (And to be honest,as most studies show, I am probably underestimating in allthese figures despite using tracking software, as I ignorethe tablespoon of salsa, hot sauce, and other condiments hereand there.)-

[Guest guest]

Well you may be a lot younger. I actually got my intake by trial and error, BUT it matches the Benedict equation pretty closely. If I did more work, I'd need more energy. I use about 250 just up and around (UAR) over my BMR.

For example, today at 70.26 yo, 69 in ht, 175 #, BMR is 1561. Add 250 for UAR. And if I walk 3 miles I could add 300 kcals or lose some weight. Adding the 300 would be 2111 kcals total. Not adding would be -1.4 #.

If I was 35 yo like you, my requirement would be 2350 kcals.

Regards.

[ ] sample diet (was Re: Applicability of CR to Humans)

>> I'm not saying ON is more important. I still do 1800 kcals.Sorry, I misunderstood then. Certainly, though I don't knowyour height and weight, you seem to be on a stricter CRON dietthan myself. I started at 1900-2000 calories about 2 yearsago, but had problems maintaining that level. So, I upped mycalorie intake over time to 2300. I am now back to 2000-2100for the last month or so and doing OK. (And to be honest,as most studies show, I am probably underestimating in allthese figures despite using tracking software, as I ignorethe tablespoon of salsa, hot sauce, and other condiments hereand there.)-