Guest guest Posted March 22, 2000 Report Share Posted March 22, 2000 please note that while potassium sorbate may have some effectiveness as a preservative, the conditions under which it will work are far more limiting than other preservatives, such as as the parabens, so I'm skeptical of the claim that it is generally more effective... For example, sorbic acid (the active ingredient in potassium sorbate) is only effective in preparations where the pH is less than five. That is VERY restrictive, and although I could be wrong, would most likely eliminate any lotion made with borax as the emulsifier as well as most oil-in-water emulsions. You could doctor the mix with citric acid to lower the pH, but then you'll have a rather irritating product. (Parabens are effective at a pH of 8 or higher depending on the formulation - Germaben II is effective up to 9 or 10 according to its creator). Sorbic acid is also considered to be a skin irritant and sensitizer and as such should only be used in rinse off products. It is unstable in UV light, so products preserved with sorbic acid should be kept in a dark place An antioxidant must also be used to prevent yellowing and rancidity - from what I understand, sorbic acid can either go rancid itself or contribute to rancidity. All this is paraphrased from a discussion on a cosmetics chemistry mailing list, contributed by one of North America's leading experts on cosmetic preservation (and someone who has proven, time and again, his credibility and lack of bias) - any errors in interpretation are my own. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2000 Report Share Posted March 23, 2000 In a message dated 00-03-23 00:38:36 EST, garden_goddess@... writes: << please note that while potassium sorbate may have some effectiveness as a preservative, the conditions under which it will work are far more limiting than other preservatives, such as as the parabens, so I'm skeptical of the claim that it is generally more effective.. >> Thanks for this info. This subject is soooo confusing. I wish there was someone who uses natural preservatives that has had their lotion lab tested. Crumb!! I really,really want to only use natural ingredients. Maybe I'll just have to get mine tested to be sure. It's just so darned expensive. Right now my batches are very small and I have no idea how I can make a batch that is a gallon or more so until then I'll just keep researching I guess. Thanks again, Cyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2000 Report Share Posted March 23, 2000 Is there a website or other place stating specific labs, procedures, standards, etc. that must be used for testing of cosmetics? I cannot imagine why a lab would need 1 gallon of anything to test for microbes. It seems like they would only need 3 or 4 oz., maybe a cup at most to do a whole battery of tests. Thanks for any info. Bev --- cyan451762@... wrote: Right now my batches are > very small > and I have no idea how I can make a batch that is a > gallon or more > so until then I'll just keep researching I guess. > Thanks again, > Cyan __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2000 Report Share Posted March 23, 2000 Lab's do not need a gallon of lotion to have them tested. At least mine doesn't it only needs 8 ozs. But to make it cost effective more than a gallon is called for. I can't imagine running tests totaling $180 on less than 5 gallons of lotion. you need to tell them what type of test you want..ie for fungus & yeast and mold, bacteria, and salmonella(seperate testing at $100 per test). HTH Lydia Bev Hammond wrote: > > From: Bev Hammond <bevhammond4@...> > > Is there a website or other place stating specific > labs, procedures, standards, etc. that must be used > for testing of cosmetics? I cannot imagine why a lab > would need 1 gallon of anything to test for microbes. > It seems like they would only need 3 or 4 oz., maybe a > cup at most to do a whole battery of tests. Thanks > for any info. Bev > > --- cyan451762@... wrote: > Right now my batches are > > very small > > and I have no idea how I can make a batch that is a > > gallon or more > > so until then I'll just keep researching I guess. > > Thanks again, > > Cyan > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2000 Report Share Posted March 24, 2000 In a message dated 00-03-23 10:09:19 EST, bevhammond4@... writes: << I cannot imagine why a lab would need 1 gallon of anything to test for microbes. It seems like they would only need 3 or 4 oz., maybe >> Hi Bev, they only need 8oz but, it is so expensive it just wouldn't be economical to have my 12oz batches tested. Cyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2000 Report Share Posted March 24, 2000 Do you have to have every batch tested? I don't think the big boys even do this, as long as they use the same formula with some kind of preservative, and have a set of acceptable procedures and standards. I would be surprised if they tested every batch. If they do, that's great, but I suspect they only test every so often. Maybe a chemist could answer this one. I honestly think the big manufacturers would consider testing every batch prohibitively expensive too. Bev --- cyan451762@... wrote: > From: cyan451762@... > > In a message dated 00-03-23 10:09:19 EST, > bevhammond4@... writes: > > << I cannot imagine why a lab > would need 1 gallon of anything to test for > microbes. > It seems like they would only need 3 or 4 oz., > maybe >> > > Hi Bev, they only need 8oz but, it is so expensive > it just > wouldn't be economical to have my 12oz batches > tested. > Cyan __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2000 Report Share Posted March 25, 2000 Hello, I am not sure I can understand why it is cheaper in this case to get a gallon tested than 8 oz either? Also I have independent testing done on a small sample of some of my products but I am wondering another point of testing. Say you test your batch and it comes up as clean. You may produce another batch from the same formula yet perhaps that time one of the ingredients had some bacteria in it or it got in from somewhere. There would be no meaning to the previous testing really would there. Therefore to be perfectly safe what could you do? Regards, Natasha > From: Bev Hammond <bevhammond4@...> > > Do you have to have every batch tested? I don't think > the big boys even do this, as long as they use the > same formula with some kind of preservative, and have > a set of acceptable procedures and standards. I would > be surprised if they tested every batch. If they do, > that's great, but I suspect they only test every so > often. Maybe a chemist could answer this one. I > honestly think the big manufacturers would consider > testing every batch prohibitively expensive too. Bev > > --- cyan451762@... wrote: >> From: cyan451762@... >> >> In a message dated 00-03-23 10:09:19 EST, >> bevhammond4@... writes: >> >> << I cannot imagine why a lab >> would need 1 gallon of anything to test for >> microbes. >> It seems like they would only need 3 or 4 oz., >> maybe >> >> >> Hi Bev, they only need 8oz but, it is so expensive >> it just >> wouldn't be economical to have my 12oz batches >> tested. >> Cyan > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2000 Report Share Posted March 25, 2000 I realize that every batch should be tested, but I wondered if the govt. required it of even large manufacturers (if anyone out there knows). If, and only if, you use a good preservative faithfully, my understanding is that it should kill any bacteria (most, 99.9%) that might be introduced (or probably in most cases will be introduced, during manufacture or post manufacture). If I am wrong, please enlighten me. Obviously, we should all strive to use the best technique possible to eliminate any introduction of bacteria, but that is usually impossible unless you have an autoclave, and use laboratory standards to sterilize every instrument, container, etc. On the other hand, many instruments can be boiled, and even plastic can be sterilized fairly well with alcohol. Does anyone know where these standards and/or requirements would be found? Does the FDA handle all or most of these types of requirements? Any other agency? Thanks, Bev --- natasha@... wrote: > From: natasha@... > > Hello, > > I am not sure I can understand why it is cheaper in > this case to get a > gallon tested than 8 oz either? > > Also I have independent testing done on a small > sample of some of my > products but I am wondering another point of > testing. Say you test your > batch and it comes up as clean. You may produce > another batch from the same > formula yet perhaps that time one of the ingredients > had some bacteria in it > or it got in from somewhere. > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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