Guest guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi folks: In PMID 12558961 it is reported that the levels of blood hydroxybutyrate varies dramatically in dietary restriction (DR) compared with every day ad lib (EDAL) feeding. In the CR - restricted daily feeding - variety of DR, in mice, blood hydroxybutyrate was found to be about 50% less than for EDAL feeding. But in the case of the alternate day only feeding eat-as- much-as-you-want variety of DR it was found to be about 100% higher than in EDAL feeding. Does anyone have a view about whether higher blood hydroxybutyrate is a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'? I realize this is not sophisticated technical language (!) but you probably get the gist. Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hi folks: I posted the below a couple of weeks ago asking if anyone has any input on blood levels of beta-hydroxybutyrate. I didn't see any responses. This blood marker seems to be the biggest difference between a regular CRON diet and what might be termed an AD,F/al diet. AD,F/al (or for simplicity ADFAL) is my acronym for an 'alternate daily, fasting/ad lib' feeding schedule, where nothing is eaten one day and ad lib (with ON of course) feeding is permitted the following day. There seem to be some advantages to this routine, at least in mice, including most of the benefits of CRON and a much smaller drop in body weight. If it is established whether high or low blood levels of beta- hydroxybutyrate are preferable it could help draw some conclusions about the merits of such a routine compared with regular CRON. If it works as well as CRON then it might be a good way to avoid the thin, sometimes to the extent of skeletal (and apparently unhealthy), appearance of people on the more extreme versions of CR. Presumably it works because of the 'starvation' aspect of the full day-and-a-half fast - 8 pm one evening to 8 am the day after next. You could call it the '12/36' diet routine - in which unlimited eating is permitted for twelve hours followed by a fast for the next 36 hours. In comparison CRON induces the 'starvation' response a little each day. Any other comments on the contents of PMID 12558961 would be welcome also. Either pro or con, of course. Thanks, Rodney. --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> wrote: > > Hi folks: > > In PMID 12558961 it is reported that the levels of blood > hydroxybutyrate varies dramatically in dietary restriction (DR) > compared with every day ad lib (EDAL) feeding. > > In the CR - restricted daily feeding - variety of DR, in mice, blood > hydroxybutyrate was found to be about 50% less than for EDAL > feeding. But in the case of the alternate day only feeding eat-as- > much-as-you-want variety of DR it was found to be about 100% higher > than in EDAL feeding. > > Does anyone have a view about whether higher blood hydroxybutyrate is > a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'? I realize this is not > sophisticated technical language (!) but you probably get the gist. > > Rodney. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hi folks: I posted the below a couple of weeks ago asking if anyone has any input on blood levels of beta-hydroxybutyrate. I didn't see any responses. This blood marker seems to be the biggest difference between a regular CRON diet and what might be termed an AD,F/al diet. AD,F/al (or for simplicity ADFAL) is my acronym for an 'alternate daily, fasting/ad lib' feeding schedule, where nothing is eaten one day and ad lib (with ON of course) feeding is permitted the following day. There seem to be some advantages to this routine, at least in mice, including most of the benefits of CRON and a much smaller drop in body weight. If it is established whether high or low blood levels of beta- hydroxybutyrate are preferable it could help draw some conclusions about the merits of such a routine compared with regular CRON. If it works as well as CRON then it might be a good way to avoid the thin, sometimes to the extent of skeletal (and apparently unhealthy), appearance of people on the more extreme versions of CR. Presumably it works because of the 'starvation' aspect of the full day-and-a-half fast - 8 pm one evening to 8 am the day after next. You could call it the '12/36' diet routine - in which unlimited eating is permitted for twelve hours followed by a fast for the next 36 hours. In comparison CRON induces the 'starvation' response a little each day. Any other comments on the contents of PMID 12558961 would be welcome also. Either pro or con, of course. Thanks, Rodney. --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> wrote: > > Hi folks: > > In PMID 12558961 it is reported that the levels of blood > hydroxybutyrate varies dramatically in dietary restriction (DR) > compared with every day ad lib (EDAL) feeding. > > In the CR - restricted daily feeding - variety of DR, in mice, blood > hydroxybutyrate was found to be about 50% less than for EDAL > feeding. But in the case of the alternate day only feeding eat-as- > much-as-you-want variety of DR it was found to be about 100% higher > than in EDAL feeding. > > Does anyone have a view about whether higher blood hydroxybutyrate is > a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'? I realize this is not > sophisticated technical language (!) but you probably get the gist. > > Rodney. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hi All, MetaMetrix data for me for 2003 had my beta-hydroxybutyrate at 2.0, reference limits </= 4.5 microg/mg crea(tinine?). The alpha-hydroxybutyrate was 6.1 versus </= 11.0 reference limits. --- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote: > Hi folks: > > I posted the below a couple of weeks ago asking if anyone has any > input on blood levels of beta-hydroxybutyrate. I didn't see any > responses. > > This blood marker seems to be the biggest difference between a > regular CRON diet and what might be termed an AD,F/al diet. > > AD,F/al (or for simplicity ADFAL) is my acronym for an 'alternate > daily, fasting/ad lib' feeding schedule, where nothing is eaten one > day and ad lib (with ON of course) feeding is permitted the following > day. There seem to be some advantages to this routine, at least in > mice, including most of the benefits of CRON and a much smaller drop > in body weight. > > If it is established whether high or low blood levels of beta- > hydroxybutyrate are preferable it could help draw some conclusions > about the merits of such a routine compared with regular CRON. > > If it works as well as CRON then it might be a good way to avoid the > thin, sometimes to the extent of skeletal (and apparently unhealthy), > appearance of people on the more extreme versions of CR. > > Presumably it works because of the 'starvation' aspect of the full > day-and-a-half fast - 8 pm one evening to 8 am the day after next. > You could call it the '12/36' diet routine - in which unlimited > eating is permitted for twelve hours followed by a fast for the next > 36 hours. In comparison CRON induces the 'starvation' response a > little each day. > > Any other comments on the contents of PMID 12558961 would be welcome > also. Either pro or con, of course. > > Thanks, > > Rodney. > > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > In PMID 12558961 it is reported that the levels of blood > > hydroxybutyrate varies dramatically in dietary restriction (DR) > > compared with every day ad lib (EDAL) feeding. > > > > In the CR - restricted daily feeding - variety of DR, in mice, > blood > > hydroxybutyrate was found to be about 50% less than for EDAL > > feeding. But in the case of the alternate day only feeding eat-as- > > much-as-you-want variety of DR it was found to be about 100% higher > > than in EDAL feeding. > > > > Does anyone have a view about whether higher blood hydroxybutyrate > is > > a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'? I realize this is not > > sophisticated technical language (!) but you probably get the gist. > > > > Rodney. > > > > > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hi All, MetaMetrix data for me for 2003 had my beta-hydroxybutyrate at 2.0, reference limits </= 4.5 microg/mg crea(tinine?). The alpha-hydroxybutyrate was 6.1 versus </= 11.0 reference limits. --- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote: > Hi folks: > > I posted the below a couple of weeks ago asking if anyone has any > input on blood levels of beta-hydroxybutyrate. I didn't see any > responses. > > This blood marker seems to be the biggest difference between a > regular CRON diet and what might be termed an AD,F/al diet. > > AD,F/al (or for simplicity ADFAL) is my acronym for an 'alternate > daily, fasting/ad lib' feeding schedule, where nothing is eaten one > day and ad lib (with ON of course) feeding is permitted the following > day. There seem to be some advantages to this routine, at least in > mice, including most of the benefits of CRON and a much smaller drop > in body weight. > > If it is established whether high or low blood levels of beta- > hydroxybutyrate are preferable it could help draw some conclusions > about the merits of such a routine compared with regular CRON. > > If it works as well as CRON then it might be a good way to avoid the > thin, sometimes to the extent of skeletal (and apparently unhealthy), > appearance of people on the more extreme versions of CR. > > Presumably it works because of the 'starvation' aspect of the full > day-and-a-half fast - 8 pm one evening to 8 am the day after next. > You could call it the '12/36' diet routine - in which unlimited > eating is permitted for twelve hours followed by a fast for the next > 36 hours. In comparison CRON induces the 'starvation' response a > little each day. > > Any other comments on the contents of PMID 12558961 would be welcome > also. Either pro or con, of course. > > Thanks, > > Rodney. > > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > In PMID 12558961 it is reported that the levels of blood > > hydroxybutyrate varies dramatically in dietary restriction (DR) > > compared with every day ad lib (EDAL) feeding. > > > > In the CR - restricted daily feeding - variety of DR, in mice, > blood > > hydroxybutyrate was found to be about 50% less than for EDAL > > feeding. But in the case of the alternate day only feeding eat-as- > > much-as-you-want variety of DR it was found to be about 100% higher > > than in EDAL feeding. > > > > Does anyone have a view about whether higher blood hydroxybutyrate > is > > a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'? I realize this is not > > sophisticated technical language (!) but you probably get the gist. > > > > Rodney. > > > > > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hi folks: I suppose one could also call this the '16/32' routine, if the ad lib is judged to go for sixteen hours, from 8 am to MDNT, and the fast from MDNT to 8 am 32 hours later. In some mouse experiments, where the animals apparently thrived, they were simply fed Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So they had a longer fast on the weekend. Rodney. > > > > Hi folks: > > > > In PMID 12558961 it is reported that the levels of blood > > hydroxybutyrate varies dramatically in dietary restriction (DR) > > compared with every day ad lib (EDAL) feeding. > > > > In the CR - restricted daily feeding - variety of DR, in mice, > blood > > hydroxybutyrate was found to be about 50% less than for EDAL > > feeding. But in the case of the alternate day only feeding eat- as- > > much-as-you-want variety of DR it was found to be about 100% higher > > than in EDAL feeding. > > > > Does anyone have a view about whether higher blood hydroxybutyrate > is > > a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'? I realize this is not > > sophisticated technical language (!) but you probably get the gist. > > > > Rodney. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hi folks: I suppose one could also call this the '16/32' routine, if the ad lib is judged to go for sixteen hours, from 8 am to MDNT, and the fast from MDNT to 8 am 32 hours later. In some mouse experiments, where the animals apparently thrived, they were simply fed Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So they had a longer fast on the weekend. Rodney. > > > > Hi folks: > > > > In PMID 12558961 it is reported that the levels of blood > > hydroxybutyrate varies dramatically in dietary restriction (DR) > > compared with every day ad lib (EDAL) feeding. > > > > In the CR - restricted daily feeding - variety of DR, in mice, > blood > > hydroxybutyrate was found to be about 50% less than for EDAL > > feeding. But in the case of the alternate day only feeding eat- as- > > much-as-you-want variety of DR it was found to be about 100% higher > > than in EDAL feeding. > > > > Does anyone have a view about whether higher blood hydroxybutyrate > is > > a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'? I realize this is not > > sophisticated technical language (!) but you probably get the gist. > > > > Rodney. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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