Re: An opinion about business

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your posting and find it to be great food for thought. My

perspective is quite different I am sure because this is not how I pay my

bills. I use many sources for reading and research but find the list to be

more for guidance and support. I look at it more of a social club of people

that share an interest in the topic. No one else in my world can share the

excitement I have for this activity.

If not for what is shared on the list, I would have been very limited in what

I do. When I mentioned to a neighbor several months ago that I was making

bath salts and such, she asked if I was making soap. I probably looked at

her like she had three heads! What does soap have to do with herbs and

essential oils?

As I continue learning, sharing, and enjoying the list, there are threads

that I have no interest in but can enjoy the conversation, so to speak. M & P

offers a creative outlet for skills that I do not have and have no interest

in developing. I did, however, begin to find CP intriguing and learned how

to apply my interest in herbs and EOs into a new arena. The list and the

places it led me and the people who gently nudged until I was ready (love you

Fran!) have been essential for me to pursue my interests.

I appreciate your concern for the business to thrive and I support the call

for high standards. But please don't curb the sharing and learning that are

integral to the spirit, I believe, of the list. Some of us are here because

the sharing and the learning are the joy as much as the craft. I can't

imagine it is often that someone truly copies a recipe and markets it as is.

I think we are just looking for a starting point based on the experience of

others from which we will craft and refine until it is our own. I wouldn't

even give something to one of my " test buddies " that I didn't feel good

about. From their opinion combined with what else I know, I can adjust from

there.

I may be in the minority. Maybe everyone else on the list is here for

business reasons. I just wanted to share a different perspective because

whether or not I should ever market what I craft, I do it because of the joy

it brings me. I suspect this is the same for many others because this isn't

a business one would get into because it is easy money.

Grace

[Guest guest]

,

You make some excellent and very valid points. Thank you. But, perhaps there

is something else going on--or something in addition to what you have so aptly

described.

many times, when learning to make something for the first time, even when we

have an eye to selling it, we like to get a recipe we know will work. Once

we've made the basic product, see how the recipe works, get an idea of what it

should look and feel like, and what it does while becoming lotion, cream,

fizzy soap, or whatever, then we may take that recipe as a base, and make it

our own, confident in the knowledge that we have a basic recipe that works--so

if our experiment fails, we need only look to our futzing.

As you say, though, it is as dangerous to be in too much of a hurry to enter

the market place as it is to not enter it at all. But, also as you say, the

productss created by most of the people on this list, especially those who

market them, tend to e of a high order of excellence.

A very yappy new year to all! May your bath bombs explode fragrantly, (and in

the bath tub) may your lotions flow like sil, your creams feel like velvet,

and your soap trace in 30 secones and come out perfectly, every time.

Gently,

Sunraven ,

[Guest guest]

>Some of us are here because

>the sharing and the learning are the joy as much as the craft.

>Grace

Wow, how beautifully said--this is wholly how I feel!

Thanks for putting it into words.

Celeste

(Who has no idea if she will ever take this to the business level--likes to

dream she will though--but loves the advise, suggestions, and support on

this list--including 's reminder that " we are all in this

together.. " )

[Guest guest]

Regarding the sharing of our recipes and " trade secrets " :

All you have to do is be careful of what you say. If you feel something is

your " secret " , you don't have to feel obligated to share it. I don't post

recipes, since I make up all of my own and I attempt to keep my things

unique - even though, with the ingredients I use, I'm sure someone else has

come up with what I do! I am, however, willing to help out with other

things - i.e. what does coconut oil do for a bar of soap? - or offering

suggestions or a different perspective. I think what we have to do is offer

information to make people *think* about what they're doing. Don't just

offer recipes and say " this works, try it " ... Tell people that " avocado oil

has a lot of nutrients in it " and " shea butter is really luxurious " and let

them draw their own conclusions.

I'm extremely glad that Kathy 's site was one of the first I stumbled

upon when I started learning about soapmaking. Her saponification charts and

oil property charts just kind of instilled a sense of adventure in me. I'm

not happy to just take someone's recipe and use it as my own; I like to

think of things myself. Forums such as these have been an invaluable source

of information, and I don't even read anyone's recipes!

Seeing as though there are hundreds of people on any given mailing list and

only a few people who actively participate, I am wary of sharing certain

things, but those who do share openly and end up being, for lack of a better

word, screwed over, have only themselves to blame.

I love all the sharing that goes on here... we just need to make sure we

share *smartly*.

Branwen

Ona-Stella Enterprises

http://www.ona-stella.com/

[Guest guest]

Dear List...AND GraceAnn...

I wanted to voice my opinion too...I agree wholeheartedly with you! I am a

newbie and lurker but i print out all the recipes posted for my future use!

I want to start giving these as gifts ...maybe a few years down the road, i

will do craft shows. I just wanted to back-up Grace Ann... great post!

Lori

[Guest guest]

> You guys are a great bunch of people. I know that because the sharing and

kindness I see on the list really impresses me. >I've been on quite a few

lists, and I have never seen a list of this size that was so calm and

supportive.

I feel this same away although it is really centered around my own self

esteem and need not to be mortified I suppose. I want to sell only tried and

true toiletries to my (hopefully) soon to be customers. I have sold a few

things but, I'm still leery about going whole hog till I have a few more

months under my belt. I would just feel like crawling into a hole if someone

I had sold something to came back to me with something wrong with my

product. (((gulp))) My husband says I am a

compulsive/obsessive person anyway, and at making toiletries I am even more

so. But even he admits that that is not a bad thing when selling something

to a person that comes in contact with there skin. I really don't feel this

post from was trying to 'curb' anyone's creative juices and was more

pointed to those of us selling toiletries, not just hobbyist.

Ozark Becky

[Guest guest]

Grace,

I agree with you; we shouldn't " curb the learning and sharing " that are so

important to this list. What else is the point of the list?

" Tried and true recipes " are the only ones I am going to take a risk on. I

am a beginner at making toiletries, and I am also on a tight budget. I do

not have money to waste " playing around " and experimenting and trying

recipes that are likely to fail.

Just my two cents' worth.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/00 8:18:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,

branwen@... writes:

<< All you have to do is be careful of what you say. If you feel something is

your " secret " , you don't have to feel obligated to share it. >>

Did I miss something? I took the original post to mean that we should take

time to research and become knowledgeable about our products before we try to

sell them. Instead of getting a few recipes off this list and thinking we're

going to sell them to make fast, easy money, we need to take the time to

learn about toiletries--learn about the products, the individual ingredients,

the chemistry, etc. That, I think, is wise advice.

I don't make toiletries to sell, but even before I made my own, and certainly

before having others use them, I did research. And I keep learning more all

the time.

I think and hope this is what the author meant in her post.

Beth