Re: Republic attack on the call-in day

[Guest guest]

And some school systems can cheat kids out of their educations if their parents

aren't involved in the process.

Elaine

>

Hi Kathy,

Please not what they are doing, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DROP BENCHMARKS, it's just

an option for parents WHO WANT TO.

life is about choices and yeah some can get by with a 3 yr IEP and no

benchmarks, espeically if their child is capable of being graded using reg.

curric...my daughter went to school with a girl who's mother was a drug adict

and used while carrying her, she wanted to do reg. work AND get graded that

way, she had an awful memory, courtesy of her mom's addiction, but she really

didn't need benchmarks, just goals and accomodations. For her the

accomodations like extra time and such were much more important the the

benchmarks. Now with kids with more serious delays, yes, benchmarks should

be used. But if you look at some of the kids that are really, really

delayed, what purpose does it serve to have to have a meeting every year to

discuss the same objectives. Those can be discussed on a P/T level and the

parent can decide if a meeting is necessary to add or change them.

If Sara is being ascessed by an alternative method (her benchmarks) then she

can continue to be accessed in that way. Since she is not doing grade level

work then to me she would not be accessed in the same way as the other kids.

This law is just about alternatives and giving parents other options. Many

do feel that IEP's are a pain in the postier, espeically if their child is

actually being accessed like all the others. You have the right to continue

as you are so there isn't anything wrong with the bill. IMO :-)

Joy

Fiction: “Paperwork reduction provisions such as the 3-year Individualized

Education Plan (IEP) and elimination of short-term objectives will remove

accountability for children and parents.â€

FACT: Proposals such as the 3-year IEP are options for states, and options

for parents - options caring parents and paperwork-weary teachers alike

believe the law should allow for students with disabilities. If a parent

would prefer to have an annual IEP, the law continues to guarantee that

right. The 3-year IEP, if agreed to by the parent and the school, would

maintain critical individualized education to children with special needs

while reducing complex and duplicative paperwork. Further, if a parent

decides the 3-year IEP is not working, the parent can simply ask to return to

the annual IEP - and they don’t have to wait until the 3-year IEP is

completed.

The elimination of benchmarks and short-term objectives will not take place

until the 2005-2006 school year - because beginning in 2005 all parents will

receive report cards from schools showing academic progress indicators. Until

that time, IEPs will continue to contain short-term objectives and benchmarks

to ensure academic progress is being made. After that time, those students

who are being assessed using alternate assessment may continue to have

benchmarks and short-term objectives.

The crushing paperwork burden associated with the IDEA is taking teachers out

of the classroom and away from the children who need to be taught. Proposed

reductions in unnecessary paperwork are designed to increase academic results

by allowing the teachers to spend more time teaching rather than filling out

complicated and often-unnecessary paperwork.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you are living in a perfect school district where the school always

tells the truth about the law and is willing and eager to provide the necessary

services. Where I come from that doesn't happen. I think the problem with the

change in the requirement comes from those of us who know the law and are

participants in IEP meetings who know that it will now become even more

difficult to get the things needed for our children's education.

Any changes in the law need to provide ways to make it easier for parents, many

who do not have a lot of resources available, to protect their childrens right

to a free appropriate education.

Re: Republic attack on the call-in day

>

>

> > --- - whether the parent is too tired, over- whelmed, etc-

> > isn't that child still THEIR child and their responsibility? My

> > daughter (and my other children) are just that- MINE- and even if

> > I'm tired it's MY job to look out for them and make sure they're

> > getting what they need. If I didn't want to take that

responsibility

> > then maybe I shouldn't have had children.

> >

> >

> > In , JTesmer799@a... wrote:

> > > In a message dated 5/2/03 11:57:52 PM Central Daylight Time,

> > > heather_schulte@e... writes:

> > >

> > >

> > > > But Joy, what about those parents out there that don't have

time

> > to learn

> > > > everything there is to know about their rights. Wasn't that

> > point

> > > > mentioned already?

> > >

> > > You know, when you have achild you sometimes end up with no

time.

> > You end up

> > > staying up late and sleep deprived.

> > > Two of the women I work with are involved in sped. one has 5

> > kids, the

> > > youngest is only 8 months old and has a pretty basic idea of

what

> > her child

> > > is entitled to. The other asks and has been informed by me

and a

> > nurse on

> > > her station what her youngest son (15?) who has an IEP is

entitled

> > to get an

> > > eduation. (he really needs books on tape since he has reading

> > difficulties

> > > and oral tests) The nurse has stated that she'd go to an IEP

> > meeting to help

> > > her, I've told her that I'd come along with her if she liked,

she

> > chose no

> > > help, her son continues to struggle with getting his

assignments

> > done even

> > > tho he has an IEP. Many people are like that. And she only

has

> > him left at

> > > home so should have plently of time to get informed.

> > >

> > > you will get informed if you really want to from what the

> > experience that

> > > I've had with others.

> > >

> > > joy

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

--- Darcy- You're right we have been very lucky with our school

district... so far... I have no idea at this point what the jr high

and high school are like because I don't have kids there yet or know

anyone who has a special needs child there yet. What I have seen

from our district and ones around here are that even if families

disagree with the placements they make they give them options or

have given in and consented to what the parents requested. I know

that every place is not like this but it should be. We are also

lucky that while our state does not have the best early intervention

program I've heard of- they do have a pretty good one that's alot

better than a lot of other states. To me- this absolutely should be

the norm and I feel for those of you that do not have this. Recently

our early intervention program was on the chopping block and I

lobbied hard for it to be retained- even though it wouldn't have

affected my child much- because I think it is so important for the

resources to be available early on. The thing with the 3 year IEP's

to me is that they are offering another option- not necessarily

taking one away. I understand that a lot of people are afraid that

the schools will try to make this the norm and if that became the

case I would definitely lobby to go back to mandating 1 year IEP's-

but at this point I am willing to see what happens and not assume

that that will be what happens. This is all just another reason I

believe the early intervention is SO important. Before we even left

the hospital we were put in contact with the early intervention

specialists and given a handbook to take home regarding our rights-

including the rights regarding IEP's. Our family support specialist

answers any questions we have regarding those rights and the special

ed teacher at our school is very big on making parent's aware of

there rights. All of this is -to me- exactly how this should

work.Sometimes I think that fighting to get the current laws

enforced is as important as fighting for new laws, although there

are things in HR 1350 that concern me also, such as the limits on

due process. Anyway- long story short- if everyone had the access to

early intervention help like we did- they would be given the

information up front and would know at least their basic rights so

that the schools wouldn't be able to try and pull one over on them.

Actually- maybe that's why our schools are more compliant- because

they can't get away with not being.... who knows... but I'm

certainly not going to complain that they are... Sorry this is long-

but things I said were misconstrued earlier when I tried to keep it

short so I want to be clear. Best of luck to you in your fight.

In , " Darcy Eads " <deads@c...> wrote:

> Perhaps you are living in a perfect school district where the

school always tells the truth about the law and is willing and eager

to provide the necessary services. Where I come from that doesn't

happen. I think the problem with the change in the requirement

comes from those of us who know the law and are participants in IEP

meetings who know that it will now become even more difficult to get

the things needed for our children's education.

> Any changes in the law need to provide ways to make it easier for

parents, many who do not have a lot of resources available, to

protect their childrens right to a free appropriate education.

> Re: Republic attack on the call-in day

> >

> >

> > > --- - whether the parent is too tired, over- whelmed,

etc-

> > > isn't that child still THEIR child and their responsibility?

My

> > > daughter (and my other children) are just that- MINE- and

even if

> > > I'm tired it's MY job to look out for them and make sure

they're

> > > getting what they need. If I didn't want to take that

> responsibility

> > > then maybe I shouldn't have had children.

> > >

> > >

> > > In , JTesmer799@a... wrote:

> > > > In a message dated 5/2/03 11:57:52 PM Central Daylight

Time,

> > > > heather_schulte@e... writes:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > But Joy, what about those parents out there that don't

have

> time

> > > to learn

> > > > > everything there is to know about their rights. Wasn't

that

> > > point

> > > > > mentioned already?

> > > >

> > > > You know, when you have achild you sometimes end up with

no

> time.

> > > You end up

> > > > staying up late and sleep deprived.

> > > > Two of the women I work with are involved in sped. one

has 5

> > > kids, the

> > > > youngest is only 8 months old and has a pretty basic idea

of

> what

> > > her child

> > > > is entitled to. The other asks and has been informed by

me

> and a

> > > nurse on

> > > > her station what her youngest son (15?) who has an IEP is

> entitled

> > > to get an

> > > > eduation. (he really needs books on tape since he has

reading

> > > difficulties

> > > > and oral tests) The nurse has stated that she'd go to an

IEP

> > > meeting to help

> > > > her, I've told her that I'd come along with her if she

liked,

> she

> > > chose no

> > > > help, her son continues to struggle with getting his

> assignments

> > > done even

> > > > tho he has an IEP. Many people are like that. And she

only

> has

> > > him left at

> > > > home so should have plently of time to get informed.

> > > >

> > > > you will get informed if you really want to from what the

> > > experience that

> > > > I've had with others.

> > > >

> > > > joy

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/3/03 12:14:07 PM Central Daylight Time, Linman42 writes:

> And what about the parents who cant educated themselves for some reason or

> another, the school system will lie to them and they will follow whatever

> it is they are told to do.

>

>

Hi ,

Why don't we agree to disagree about this. Evidently the lessons I was

taught by my parents growing up were very different then many here live by.

I have tried to educate others on the rights their child has, they really

don't want to persue them, they seem to enjoy the path of least resistance.

LOL Oh well. Such is life. :-)

Joy, going to take a break for a few days. LOL.........maybe it'll dry up

and I can ride the motorcycle again. :-)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/5/2003 8:51:28 PM Central Standard Time, JTesmer799

writes:

> Hi ,

> Why don't we agree to disagree about this. Evidently the lessons I was

> taught by my parents growing up were very different then many here live by.

> I have tried to educate others on the rights their child has, they really

> don't want to persue them, they seem to enjoy the path of least resistance.

> LOL Oh well. Such is life. :-)

>

> Joy, going to take a break for a few days. LOL.........maybe it'll dry up

> and I can ride the motorcycle again. :-)

HI

I second that and it really works, well it does with my children and hubby,

we are always agreeing to disagree lol

Kathy mom to Sara 11 ............... I could share with you what my dad said

about opinions lol " opinions are like ... " ahhhhhhhhhhh nahhhhhhhhhhh better

not

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/3/03 3:56:59 PM Central Daylight Time, wildwards@...

writes:

> YES!! Evaluate the goal ... if the child is not able to master that goal

> in a year's time .... it must not be appropriate or services may not be

> what

> they should.

> Cheryl in VA

>

>

Evaluating a goal can be done without an IEP meeting if you have a good

teacher (we did have one the last 3 yrs in the old school) it doesn't

necessarily take a new IEP, sometimes it just takes adaptablity on the part

of the parents and teacher.

RE: math, mary's goals have been basically the same for the past 3 or 4 yrs.

they've always contained the wording using manipulatives, calculator and

touchpoints. so the modicfications/options were in place, unless you can

think of one we missed? it is just taking her along time to get it.

This year they've again introduced the calculator, even tho it was introduced

in previous years, and this year she's actually getting the idea that adding

together makes a bigger number that's the answer. The concept is finally

coming, at her own pace....very, very sllllllooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww...

lol

but changing the wording of the goal over the past 3 or 4 yrs trying to get

it meaningful isn't something that helped because the modifications/options

were always listed. The truth is she just didn't get it. Her objectives

have always been the simplifying of the goal with gradually increasing as she

would get the idea. and meet the goal. When you can't get the first very

simple step your goal just might hang around for awhile if you think it's an

important one. :-)

Joy

[Guest guest]

Come on tell us- " opinions are like???????? "

Joy, I think that by sending out the poltics on the list email, I was sending

out a white flag and calling a truce.

So guys- its a truce we can agree to disagree. hey those do make the best

conversations, otherwise there would be nothing to " talk " about! LOL

[Guest guest]

Well said !! The rights of all persons with disabilities should be our

concern.

Elaine

Re: Republic attack on the call-in day

> --- - whether the parent is too tired, over- whelmed, etc-

> isn't that child still THEIR child and their responsibility? My

> daughter (and my other children) are just that- MINE- and even if

> I'm tired it's MY job to look out for them and make sure they're

> getting what they need. If I didn't want to take that responsibility

> then maybe I shouldn't have had children.

>

>

> In , JTesmer799@a... wrote:

> > In a message dated 5/2/03 11:57:52 PM Central Daylight Time,

> > heather_schulte@e... writes:

> >

> >

> > > But Joy, what about those parents out there that don't have time

> to learn

> > > everything there is to know about their rights. Wasn't that

> point

> > > mentioned already?

> >

> > You know, when you have achild you sometimes end up with no time.

> You end up

> > staying up late and sleep deprived.

> > Two of the women I work with are involved in sped. one has 5

> kids, the

> > youngest is only 8 months old and has a pretty basic idea of what

> her child

> > is entitled to. The other asks and has been informed by me and a

> nurse on

> > her station what her youngest son (15?) who has an IEP is entitled

> to get an

> > eduation. (he really needs books on tape since he has reading

> difficulties

> > and oral tests) The nurse has stated that she'd go to an IEP

> meeting to help

> > her, I've told her that I'd come along with her if she liked, she

> chose no

> > help, her son continues to struggle with getting his assignments

> done even

> > tho he has an IEP. Many people are like that. And she only has

> him left at

> > home so should have plently of time to get informed.

> >

> > you will get informed if you really want to from what the

> experience that

> > I've had with others.

> >

> > joy

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

OK, but there does come a time when the goal is met and it needs to be

changed. What about the child that does meet a goal sooner? There needs to

be things in place for that child, so that they are not necessarily working

on the same goal for 3 years and they have already learned it.

OK, example, not school related cause the goals are reviewed 3x a year here.

but amanda has a service from an outside agency where a person works with

her 2x a week. Well, year after year the goals seem to remain the same-

1. academics

2. community integration

3. socialization (I'm being vague here.....)

So, we got a new worker and were reviewing the goals. Well, for amanda they

no longer seemed to be making sense. So we talked a bit and decided that

street crossing will now be a goal to replace community integration- cause

what is that anyway?

Point is, (and I'm so-so educated, informed and involved...LOL) why didnt i

think of changing the goals sooner to meet amandas needs? Because I didnt-

no one told me to. And no one will tell anyone- even the people that know

already!

Joy, I hope were not toooooo adversary here!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/5/2003 11:11:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

JTesmer799@... writes:

> Evaluating a goal can be done without an IEP meeting if you have a good

> teacher (we did have one the last 3 yrs in the old school) it doesn't

> necessarily take a new IEP, sometimes it just takes adaptablity on the part

>

> of the parents and teacher.

>

It should be done by the TEAM, that is their role. They are not a team

for one day a year when they have a meeting to sign the paper, they are a

team for all of the time that student is in school. Each person is on that

team for a reason, and the teacher and parent are part of the team.

Cheryl in VA

People with disabilities are here today to remind us that equal justice under

the law is not a privilege but a fundamental birthright in America.

                            Senator Ted Kennedy, during the Senate's passage

of ADA-July 13, 1990

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/5/2003 11:11:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

JTesmer799@... writes:

> but changing the wording of the goal over the past 3 or 4 yrs trying to get

> it meaningful isn't something that helped because the modifications/options

>

> were always listed. The truth is she just didn't get it. Her objectives

> have always been the simplifying of the goal with gradually increasing as

> she

> would get the idea. and meet the goal. When you can't get the first very

> simple step your goal just might hang around for awhile if you think it's

> an

> important one. :-)

>

Joy,

Goals can be written many ways. I like to consider the objectives steps

to reaching the goal, with the goal in actuality the last objective on the

IEP. If she has not made progress over the last 3 or 4 years, then perhaps

the goal (or concept) was too difficult for her. If her objectives were

simplifications of the goal, they why couldn't an objective replace the goal?

Any time a child masters a goal, you can modify the IEP to add more goals or

objectives. You take the stairs one step at a time. The staircase is always

there, you just focus on climbing where you are.

Cheryl in VA

People with disabilities are here today to remind us that equal justice under

the law is not a privilege but a fundamental birthright in America.

                            Senator Ted Kennedy, during the Senate's passage

of ADA-July 13, 1990

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/5/2003 6:29:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

suezqpete@... writes:

> . I understand that a lot of people are afraid that

> the schools will try to make this the norm and if that became the

> case I would definitely lobby to go back to mandating 1 year IEP's-

>

The last time IDEA was up for reauthorization was in 1997, so six years

will go by before your lobbying will be of any use. Six years of frustration

for the parents and students who get ignored by schools and told " this is how

we do it for everyone else and this is how we will do it for you. " This

amendment is not offering choice, it is taking away accountability. It is

not adding an option, it is restricting focus on our childrens' education ...

IMO.

Cheryl in VA

People with disabilities are here today to remind us that equal justice under

the law is not a privilege but a fundamental birthright in America.

                            Senator Ted Kennedy, during the Senate's passage

of ADA-July 13, 1990

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/3/03 4:59:44 PM Central Daylight Time,

_Schulte@... writes:

> The idea that someone should not be ALLOWED to give birth to a child based

> soley on the possibility that it could be diabled and they don't have the

> educational ability to understand the law is proposterous.

>

>

You know , from what I've been readind, no one said that parents

shouldn't be parents because of the possibility that they might have a

disabled child. To twist someones words to that extent is very unfair. (but

such is life I guess, lol) Now I did read a posting in which someone seems

to think that I or anyone who doesn't agree with their viewpoint was all

prepared and knew we'd have a kid with a disablity, sorry I didn't know, my

'education' has been done on my own. All I've said is it's the parents

responsiblitly to get educated. If the parent doesn't get educated then

that's their choice. So be it.

If the parents are out looking for answers then they are getting the

'education' they need since they're asking questions, if they weren't talking

to you or me they are probably satified with what's going on. I listened to

the schools at first but the schools didn't give me the answers, I had to go

find them myself, through an advocate that places like these lists.

I could go on but it seems that i'm 'insensative' since I deal with things my

way, I never said I don't help other peoples kids, I do, but it's not my job

to raise them, it's theirs.

Joy

[Guest guest]

--- Thank you Joy- finally someone understands what I mean

In , JTesmer799@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/3/03 4:59:44 PM Central Daylight Time,

> _Schulte@e... writes:

>

>

> > The idea that someone should not be ALLOWED to give birth to a

child based

> > soley on the possibility that it could be diabled and they don't

have the

> > educational ability to understand the law is proposterous.

> >

> >

>

> You know , from what I've been readind, no one said that

parents

> shouldn't be parents because of the possibility that they might

have a

> disabled child. To twist someones words to that extent is very

unfair. (but

> such is life I guess, lol) Now I did read a posting in which

someone seems

> to think that I or anyone who doesn't agree with their viewpoint

was all

> prepared and knew we'd have a kid with a disablity, sorry I didn't

know, my

> 'education' has been done on my own. All I've said is it's the

parents

> responsiblitly to get educated. If the parent doesn't get

educated then

> that's their choice. So be it.

>

> If the parents are out looking for answers then they are getting

the

> 'education' they need since they're asking questions, if they

weren't talking

> to you or me they are probably satified with what's going on. I

listened to

> the schools at first but the schools didn't give me the answers, I

had to go

> find them myself, through an advocate that places like these

lists.

>

> I could go on but it seems that i'm 'insensative' since I deal

with things my

> way, I never said I don't help other peoples kids, I do, but it's

not my job

> to raise them, it's theirs.

>

> Joy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't ever intend to twist words, I was just restating what I thought was

said. Some e-mail I got privately and some came from the list. It is possible

that a misunderstood a phrase or two along the way, but I don't see any point in

rehashing it all. I'm all for dropping this too!

Also, I was quoted a few time as saying things that were posted by other people.

Schulte

You know , from what I've been readind, no one said that parents

shouldn't be parents because of the possibility that they might have a disabled

child. To twist someones words to that extent is very unfair. (but such is

life I guess, lol) Now I did read a posting in which someone seems to think

that I or anyone who doesn't agree with their viewpoint was all prepared and

knew we'd have a kid with a disablity, sorry I didn't know, my 'education' has

been done on my own. All I've said is it's the parents responsiblitly to get

educated. If the parent doesn't get educated then that's their choice. So be

it.

If the parents are out looking for answers then they are getting the

'education' they need since they're asking questions, if they weren't talking to

you or me they are probably satified with what's going on. I listened to the

schools at first but the schools didn't give me the answers, I had to go find

them myself, through an advocate that places like these lists.

I could go on but it seems that i'm 'insensative' since I deal with things my

way, I never said I don't help other peoples kids, I do, but it's not my job to

raise them, it's theirs.

Joy