Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Hi Boy this ticks me off ........ Sara's teachers even agree that this is not a good move. I would love to send our politions Sara's IEP and ask them how they would plan on implementing it without the objectives and what if it was their child. I think not having the steps to meet the goals (objectives) is the scariest part in this mess (concerning Sara). As a goal/objective writer Sara will have soooooooo many broke down goals .... Way more paper work then she has now if this goes through and more evaluations to write the PLOPs. All parents will really have to be involved and educate themselves in the goal writing and making sure they have all of the Evals to write the PLOPs. Can we say money-time-money-time Kathy mom to Sara 11 ...... if i see any loop hole Im pushing it heehee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 7:37:50 PM Central Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: > ........ Sara's teachers even agree that this is not a > good move. I would love to send our politions Sara's IEP and ask them how > they would plan on implementing it without the objectives and what if it > was > their child. > Hi Kathy, Please not what they are doing, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DROP BENCHMARKS, it's just an option for parents WHO WANT TO. life is about choices and yeah some can get by with a 3 yr IEP and no benchmarks, espeically if their child is capable of being graded using reg. curric...my daughter went to school with a girl who's mother was a drug adict and used while carrying her, she wanted to do reg. work AND get graded that way, she had an awful memory, courtesy of her mom's addiction, but she really didn't need benchmarks, just goals and accomodations. For her the accomodations like extra time and such were much more important the the benchmarks. Now with kids with more serious delays, yes, benchmarks should be used. But if you look at some of the kids that are really, really delayed, what purpose does it serve to have to have a meeting every year to discuss the same objectives. Those can be discussed on a P/T level and the parent can decide if a meeting is necessary to add or change them. If Sara is being ascessed by an alternative method (her benchmarks) then she can continue to be accessed in that way. Since she is not doing grade level work then to me she would not be accessed in the same way as the other kids. This law is just about alternatives and giving parents other options. Many do feel that IEP's are a pain in the postier, espeically if their child is actually being accessed like all the others. You have the right to continue as you are so there isn't anything wrong with the bill. IMO :-) Joy Fiction: “Paperwork reduction provisions such as the 3-year Individualized Education Plan (IEP) and elimination of short-term objectives will remove accountability for children and parents.†FACT: Proposals such as the 3-year IEP are options for states, and options for parents - options caring parents and paperwork-weary teachers alike believe the law should allow for students with disabilities. If a parent would prefer to have an annual IEP, the law continues to guarantee that right. The 3-year IEP, if agreed to by the parent and the school, would maintain critical individualized education to children with special needs while reducing complex and duplicative paperwork. Further, if a parent decides the 3-year IEP is not working, the parent can simply ask to return to the annual IEP - and they don’t have to wait until the 3-year IEP is completed. The elimination of benchmarks and short-term objectives will not take place until the 2005-2006 school year - because beginning in 2005 all parents will receive report cards from schools showing academic progress indicators. Until that time, IEPs will continue to contain short-term objectives and benchmarks to ensure academic progress is being made. After that time, those students who are being assessed using alternate assessment may continue to have benchmarks and short-term objectives. The crushing paperwork burden associated with the IDEA is taking teachers out of the classroom and away from the children who need to be taught. Proposed reductions in unnecessary paperwork are designed to increase academic results by allowing the teachers to spend more time teaching rather than filling out complicated and often-unnecessary paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 7:37:50 PM Central Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: > All parents > will really have to be involved and educate themselves in the goal writing > and making sure they have all of the Evals to write the PLOPs. > > Oh and Kathy, it's always been this way. :-) but the parents who really care they'll continue to educate themselves, just as many who come here are starting to DO.......the others will just continue to do as they do now and really won't give a crap anyway. BTW, don't you already do all that.....all you have to do is continue on as you are already doing, hehe. :-) Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 7:58:12 PM Central Daylight Time, knm@... writes: > You might find the following to be interesting reading.... > > > Hi! > > Interesting is one word. A crock of shit is another. Compassionate > conservativism my ass! jmho of course. > > Take Care, > > > Kent > Whatever. to each his own. :-) Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 This is really dirty politics. Hard to fight against too. They undermine everything we try to do. What next? Jessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Not all parents participate at lesser levels because they don't care. They are overwhelmed, they are surviving. They are dependent on schools to do the right thing. They trust the people involved in their child's education process. And they should be able to. Cheryl in VA Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty. - F. Kennedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/2003 9:01:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JTesmer799@... writes: > But if you look at some of the kids that are really, really > delayed, what purpose does it serve to have to have a meeting every year to > > discuss the same objectives. No child should have the same objectives year after year, that's the law. They should have individualized objectives suited for them that they can ACCOMPLISH within one year's time. AND there are very few students that meet the severe and profound type of definition ... so why change the entire law if lawmakers thought that would benefit only the small minority? One of the main functions of IDEA 97 was to STOP the same goals being put on IEPS year after year ... and it wasn't just students that were severe and profound that this was happening to. Cheryl in VA Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty. - F. Kennedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/2003 9:01:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JTesmer799@... writes: > The 3-year IEP, if agreed to by the parent and the school, would > maintain critical individualized education to children with special needs > while reducing complex and duplicative paperwork. I wonder how many pages a 3 year IEP will have? I know how many one for my child would have ..... much more paperwork than an annual IEP! Cheryl in VA Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty. - F. Kennedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 10:43:24 PM Central Daylight Time, Wildwards writes: > No child should have the same objectives year after year, that's the law. > They should have individualized objectives suited for them that they can > ACCOMPLISH within one year's time. AND there are very few students that > meet the severe and profound type of definition ... so why change the > entire law if lawmakers thought that would benefit only the small minority? > > > And what's wrong with giving parents the CHOICE of how often they want to write the goals. If they feel three years is often enough based on their knowledge of THEIR child then I say give them that right. The whole law is not changed, everyone still has the right to yearly IEP's if they choose, I sure know that I wouldn't change that regarding 's IEP. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 10:43:24 PM Central Daylight Time, Wildwards writes: > One of the main functions of IDEA 97 was to STOP the same goals being put on > IEPS year after year ... and it wasn't just students that were severe and > profound that this was happening to. > Cheryl in VA > > No it was happening to mine. sigh. Yeah like I said I've been there and become more educated, it'll happen to those who get frustrated enough and really care how their child is educated. Trust in teachers is fairly low in this household. But I still see nothing wrong with choice. The biggie is going to be ensuring that your states information stresses that parents have the choice between yearly or every three years and continues to state that parents can call an IEP if they feel the need. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Not to mention that they are wearing us down. For 12 years plus I have been struggling, fighting for rights, pushing, advocating, etc. I am soooo tired and I sorta know what to do and how to go about getting what amanada needs. Cheryl, you say this very well. Here, school systems tell you nothing. We all have to find out everything on our own or with a little help from the likes of this group. In amanda's elementary school, i started a group for parents of spec needs kids that was very successful. We got lots of resources and support from it. I dont usually make comparisons between children, but I am noticing that my son, sorta finds his own way. I send him to school with little to worry about - he does his work, he gets what he needs, he comes home, has friends, hes fine. But as you all know, with a special needs child, it never ends. Never. sits down and does the HW and someone sits with amanda for another 2 hours. Yesterday she didnt know how much a nickel was worth. SIGH.... I havent felt so worn out as I do this year, and thats with not working. ~ Mom to 12 DS and Diabetes Type 1 and 8 NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 <Not all parents participate at lesser levels because they don't care. They are overwhelmed, they are surviving. They are dependent on schools to do the right thing. They trust the people involved in their child's education process. And they should be able to.> Thank you, Cheryl, for saying this. The professors at my university constantly tell the preservice teachers that there has never been a parent they've met that " doesn't care " about their child. I think it is important for all to know that, not only for future educators. Jackie, Mom to 15ds, 12, and Bradley 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/2003 7:00:43 PM Central Standard Time, JTesmer799 writes: > After that time, those students who are being assessed using alternate > assessment may continue to have benchmarks and short-term objectives. Hi Joy The advocates here say benchmarks will only be used for kids who have the portfolios done --> same kids who don't take the state assessment tests (Tcaps here) now in Sara's case she takes a modified state test (Tcaps) soooooooo the argument will be there, state mandated assessment test or portfolio Kathy mom to Sara 11 .......... see this website is another way they have misinformed all, the proposed bill tells a lot more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 11:37:33 PM Central Daylight Time, heather_schulte@... writes: > . But my > biggest concern about this is that there will be parents out there that do > not realize they can ask for a 1-year IEP. Many schools will not tell > them, > or simple won't agree to 1 year IEP's if they are not mandated. 3-year > IEP's are not a good choice for many of our children. > This is where parents need to again eduate themselves, we already have to do it so word of mouth will get that fact around, and I'm sure that the advocates and lawyers will make sure that it's put in the parental rights or something like that. You know those pieces of paper that you probably have enough of to paper a small room. If you've read this list much at all in the last few months you have to have a good idea that the schools aready are not talking about LRE and it makes parents who finally find out about it very angry. They aren't going to change over this either. If it's a choice it's not mandated, if you share that fact and the people you share it with share that fact then more people will question a school trying to pull a fast one, course that doesnt' stop them for trying for placement before the IEP is written. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/2003 9:43:24 PM Central Standard Time, Wildwards writes: > But if you look at some of the kids that are really, really > delayed, what purpose does it serve to have to have a meeting every year to > discuss the same objectives. HI I am advocating for one of those " really really delayed kids " and the main reason is the same old goals and objectives ........ ei. Pushing chair up to the table .... I convinced the Mom that this is not going to happen at this time and lets write something she can succeed in. Another thing is the classroom environment can change year to year ... been there done that. Lets discuss behavior, we have had 4 behavior meetings just this yr. to discuss new behaviors sooooooo meeting every three years is a crock and thank goodness this is one of the things we do have a say in. Kathy mom to Sara 11 ........... think about 3 years and how much change your child has made in 3 yrs, Sara changes monthly lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 on 5/2/03 7:29 PM, RSYOSH@... at RSYOSH@... wrote: You might find the following to be interesting reading.... Hi! Interesting is one word. A crock of shit is another. Compassionate conservativism my ass! jmho of course. Take Care, Kent Kent Moreno Rt 1 Box 128-X Burlington, WV 26710 knm@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/2003 10:07:22 PM Central Standard Time, JTesmer799@... writes: > And what's wrong with giving parents the CHOICE of how often they want to > write the goals. If they feel three years is often enough based on their > knowledge of THEIR child then I say give them that right. The whole law is > not changed, everyone still has the right to yearly IEP's if they choose, I > sure know that I wouldn't change that regarding 's IEP. > > Joy HI Joy lol again We have to remember this is a bundled package law, some of the points might not affect us but they do affect others. Kathy mom to Sara 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 11:39:44 PM Central Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: > The advocates here say benchmarks will only be used for kids who have the > portfolios done --> same kids who don't take the state assessment tests > (Tcaps here) now in Sara's case she takes a modified state test (Tcaps) > soooooooo the argument will be there, state mandated assessment test or > portfolio > So the argument they present is " will be " .......why not the argument 'may be " ? Worst case scenario? It will only be if you and the advocates let your TN legislature get by with writing the state regs that way. even then it might be questionable. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/2003 10:58:15 PM Central Standard Time, _Schulte@... writes: > But Joy, what about those parents out there that don't have time to learn > everything there is to know about their rights. Wasn't that point > mentioned already? " ...Not all parents participate at a lesser level > because they don't care. " We should just let the children of parents who > don't hear about 1-year IEP's by " word of mouth " fend for themselves and be > left behind? > > Schulte HI you are absolutely right. Ive watched our county sugar coat so many things to convince parents of false truths. One of Sara's best friends goes into the reg ed class unsupported, I asked the Mom why and she said her child didn't need any supports ......... that the school told her that. Well I am at the school all the time and I see what's going on .... this is false information, now mind you imagine what they will tell parents who don't know the law and who trust the system? if this gets passed Kathy mom to Sara 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 11:54:40 PM Central Daylight Time, B4alltoday writes: > Kathy mom to Sara 11 ........... think about 3 years and how much change > your child has made in 3 yrs, Sara changes monthly lol When you speak of misinformation, the information that implied/stated that the every 3 year IEP would be the only option was in itself misinformation. If you want trust you need to be up front, are the advocates misinforming about that? From all the talk around here and other sped sites I got the idea that every 3 yrs would be the only option, that is misinformation to me. If they aren't misreading the law and the gov web site is stating a lie then then point that out. Either way one is misinforming, who is it? This list is where I got all the alerts on 3 yr IEP's. Perhaps I misread the alerts and so did alot of other people? Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/2003 11:03:28 PM Central Standard Time, JTesmer799 writes: > > >> The advocates here say benchmarks will only be used for kids who have the >> portfolios done --> same kids who don't take the state assessment tests >> (Tcaps here) now in Sara's case she takes a modified state test (Tcaps) >> soooooooo the argument will be there, state mandated assessment test or >> portfolio >> > > So the argument they present is " will be " .......why not the argument 'may > be " ? > > Worst case scenario? It will only be if you and the advocates let your TN > legislature get by with writing the state regs that way. even then it > might be questionable. > > Joy HI Joy Well, if your counting on the state legislators to come up with something better for our kids in state regs, forget it lol now below is the actual wording of the bill, if this is made Federal law then I don't see where states will change it for the better. Kathy mom to Sara 11 A BILL To reauthorize the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, and for other purposes. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, `(d) INDIVIDUALIZED EDUCATION PROGRAMS- `(1) DEFINITIONS- As used in this title: `(A) INDIVIDUALIZED EDUCATION PROGRAM- `(i) IN GENERAL- The term `individualized education program' or `IEP' means a written statement for each child with a disability that is developed, reviewed, and revised in accordance with this section and that includes-- `(I) a statement of the child's present levels of academic achievement, including-- `(cc) until the beginning of the 2005-2006 school year, a description of benchmarks or short-term objectives, except in the case of children with disabilities who take alternate assessments aligned to alternate achievement standards, a description of benchmarks or short-term objectives shall continue to be included; Now this " except in the case of children with disabilities who take alternate assessments aligned to alternate achievement standards, " is meant for the kids who dont take state assessments. Kathy mom to Sara 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/2003 11:22:27 PM Central Standard Time, JTesmer799 writes: > When you speak of misinformation, the information that implied/stated that > the every 3 year IEP would be the only option was in itself misinformation. > > > If you want trust you need to be up front, are the advocates misinforming > about that? From all the talk around here and other sped sites I got the > idea that every 3 yrs would be the only option, that is misinformation to > me. If they aren't misreading the law and the gov web site is stating a > lie then then point that out. Either way one is misinforming, who is it? > This list is where I got all the alerts on 3 yr IEP's. Perhaps I misread > the alerts and so did alot of other people? > > Joy HI Now I heard it wasn't mandatory and I think from here the 3 yr. IEP It boils down to another area of argument, who knows best the school or parents??? and I foresee a lot of cases going into due process over this, what a waste Kathy mom to Sara 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/2/03 11:57:52 PM Central Daylight Time, heather_schulte@... writes: > But Joy, what about those parents out there that don't have time to learn > everything there is to know about their rights. Wasn't that point > mentioned already? You know, when you have achild you sometimes end up with no time. You end up staying up late and sleep deprived. Two of the women I work with are involved in sped. one has 5 kids, the youngest is only 8 months old and has a pretty basic idea of what her child is entitled to. The other asks and has been informed by me and a nurse on her station what her youngest son (15?) who has an IEP is entitled to get an eduation. (he really needs books on tape since he has reading difficulties and oral tests) The nurse has stated that she'd go to an IEP meeting to help her, I've told her that I'd come along with her if she liked, she chose no help, her son continues to struggle with getting his assignments done even tho he has an IEP. Many people are like that. And she only has him left at home so should have plently of time to get informed. you will get informed if you really want to from what the experience that I've had with others. joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 In a message dated 5/3/03 12:11:08 AM Central Daylight Time, b4alltoday@... writes: > . this is false information, now mind you imagine what > they will tell parents who don't know the law and who trust the system? if > this gets passed > Actually Kathy i did state that they(schools)won't inform, I said somthing somewhere that they don't do that with LRE, as we read all the time here, and they aren't going to do that with this. Why do you think the old trusting me does not trust them? LOL I look at all this as needing to become informed and take responsiblity on our own it's always been that way. BTW, why is this called an attack on the call in day? All they did was inform their members as to what they were putting into the bill and what it is meant it to mean. If nothing else it's in a record now so they can't back out of the true meaning. LOL joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 I keep hearing that parents can still get 1-year IEP's if they want them. In fact, that is how Jim Ryun responded to my letter about HR 1350. But my biggest concern about this is that there will be parents out there that do not realize they can ask for a 1-year IEP. Many schools will not tell them, or simple won't agree to 1 year IEP's if they are not mandated. 3-year IEP's are not a good choice for many of our children. Schulte > And what's wrong with giving parents the CHOICE of how often they want to > write the goals. If they feel three years is often enough based on their > knowledge of THEIR child then I say give them that right. The whole law is > not changed, everyone still has the right to yearly IEP's if they choose, I > sure know that I wouldn't change that regarding 's IEP. > > Joy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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