Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 They do that and more. You can't really blame them Beavers build dams, robbers steal. I just try to tell the patients that I AM a P-C-P in M-V-A P-I-P and they usually RSVP that it's A-OK. E. Abrahamson, D.C. Chiropractic physician Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic 601 First Street Lake Oswego, OR 97034 503-635-6246 drscott@... or info@... > From: " rongrice01 " <rongrice@...> > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:28:54 -0000 > > Subject: PIP > > Has anyone else had a patient state that their pip carrier told them > they had to see their pcp first before seeking care with their dc > after an automobile collision? > > This has happened a couple of times recently in my office and I am > wondering if this might be the pip carriers newest ploy to keep > patients from receiving chiropractic care. > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster > communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will > be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it > is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise > distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her > consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Gosh, I guess that's why you have D-R before your N-A-M-E on this forum. My point is that if this is something that needs to be addressed, as it is fraudulent information, the I/we can seek legal council to do that. Just because there are beavers building dams and robbers stealing we don't have to sit back and accept the results do we? If someone else would like to comment about this I would be happy to hear from you. Grice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Sorry Ron, I guess I was being too cute. I have had patients tell me that they were told by PIP claims to see their " doctor " to make sure it was " OK, safe, or beneficial " to see a chiro. I tell them to call their AGENT and ask if I was allowed to diagnose and treat without a referral. Same thing with the old, " bill the at-fault driver as PIP doesn't need to pay " . The agent will usually set them straight as they are making money from the patient's insurance and often have a bit of an adversarial relationship with claims as well. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I've also made a postcard which says: The worst injury you will ever have is likely to be from a motor vehicle accident If not treated properly, pain from these injuries can bother you for the rest of your life. Chiropractic is becoming the treatment of choice for motor vehicle injuries. It is safe and effective. Chiropractic care is covered 100% by auto insurance with no deductible and no referral needed. At Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic, we have expertise in documenting claims accurately and will help you with forms. If you are injured call us for a consultation by phone or in person. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx E. Abrahamson, D.C. Chiropractic physician Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic 601 First Street Lake Oswego, OR 97034 503-635-6246 drscott@... or info@... > From: " rongrice01 " <rongrice@...> > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:09:23 -0000 > > Subject: PIP > > Gosh, I guess that's why you have D-R before your N-A-M-E on this > forum. > > My point is that if this is something that needs to be addressed, as > it is fraudulent information, the I/we can seek legal council to do > that. Just because there are beavers building dams and robbers > stealing we don't have to sit back and accept the results do we? > > If someone else would like to comment about this I would be happy to > hear from you. > > Grice > > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster > communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will > be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it > is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise > distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her > consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 This has happened more than a 1/2 dozen times in the last two years . it is sporadic but often enough that I have a short 2-3 sentence spiel th at I share with new PIs coming in so that, IF they get any of this baloney, they know to chat with me about it. It's my attempt to 'head 'em off at that the pass'. Sunny Kierstyn ;'-))) PIP > Has anyone else had a patient state that their pip carrier told them > they had to see their pcp first before seeking care with their dc > after an automobile collision? > > This has happened a couple of times recently in my office and I am > wondering if this might be the pip carriers newest ploy to keep > patients from receiving chiropractic care. > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 it's fun to play doctor if you are a claims adjuster, but I think you need a license for that... I advise my clients to notify the insurance commissioner if a claims adjuster is attempting to give medical advice to the insured. In Washington, the insurance commissioner sets the licensing rates for the insurance companies based partly on the number of complaints the year before. It's really the only stick we have to hit back with. -- Roy Steinberg DC DABCO Steinberg Consulting Services Inc. 14136 NE 32nd Place Bellevue WA 98007 425-883-8783: voice 425-556-0616: fax > From: " Sunny Kierstyn " <skrndc1@...> > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:39:22 -0700 > < >, " rongrice01 " <rongrice@...> > Subject: Re: PIP > > This has happened more than a 1/2 dozen times in the last two years . it is > sporadic but often enough that I have a short 2-3 sentence spiel th at I > share with new PIs coming in so that, IF they get any of this baloney, they > know to chat with me about it. It's my attempt to 'head 'em off at that the > pass'. Sunny Kierstyn ;'-))) > > > PIP > > >> Has anyone else had a patient state that their pip carrier told them >> they had to see their pcp first before seeking care with their dc >> after an automobile collision? >> >> This has happened a couple of times recently in my office and I am >> wondering if this might be the pip carriers newest ploy to keep >> patients from receiving chiropractic care. >> >> >> >> >> >> OregonDCs rules: >> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve > members will be tolerated. >> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. >> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. > However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, > or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his > or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 The full story. E. Abrahamson, D.C. Chiropractic physician Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic Please note " New address " 315 Second Street Lake Oswego, OR 97034 503-635-6246 drscott@... or info@... ---------- From: " Stockton " <stockton@...> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:38:08 -0800 <drscott@...> Subject: PIP Hello Dr. Abrahamson, I am very aware of what has been going on and everyone should be quite concerned. They got this one in under the radar. I have been calling and writing to my Senator and Representative and any other lawmaker that may be sympathetic to our cause, plus working with the Insurance Commissioners office for the past two weeks since I learned the truth. Today I was contacted by the news media as they try to put a story together. The rumor is accurate. House Bill 3668 is so vague it has been left up to the Commissioner to interpret, and the way the Bill was written since it includes ORS 656.248 it implies that we will be governed by the WC fee schedules as well as all the other restrictions and limitations that go along with it. As under the statute the expense itself must qualify first. Are you aware that HB 3668 hit the floor on 8/18/03 and was approved by the Senate on 8/23/03, with only two day of short public hearings. They knew to bring at the end of the sessions and how to apply the pressure to get it passed. All Oregonians should be shocked that we lost our rights under the 14th Amendment for Due Process under this Bill. We all anxiously await the Commissioner to resolve this if possible, their hands maybe tied based on what our lawmakers did and they don't expect an answer real soon. They are still researching and the more complaints that can come in from patients the best and consumers, which we are too. Right now we all maybe seeing patients that could have their services denied if they don't act soon. Find out what Representatives and Senators cover the districts for your and your patients and encourage them to complain. You can print this information right off of the State's legislative website. We may have to fight it in the Supreme Court per Dan Gatti, unless we can't get Oregonians to rally around this issue and get signatures to Repeal the Bill. You might think, well if they can resolved it to the fee schedule only, maybe it will be alright, but this is just today. You need to read ORS 656.248 and see what the Director can use for the fees, one choice is Medicare and how can the WC Director service two masters? His first priority is to employers and not consumers. The whole plan is unconstitutional and discriminatory as we are two distinct classes. It can't work fairly and Farmers knows that, but unfortunately our lawmakers didn't figure that out. If you read the sponsorship of HB 3668 it looks like it was requested by the Ambulance Assoc. and ER Doc's only. That is just a smoke screen, they only wanted trauma cases to have more PIP added to them, you can see this if you trace the history of the Bill in 2003 session, but if you dig deeper you will find a shocking Bill introduced by Farmers Insurance in March called HB 3364. I urge every medical professional to go to the State of Oregon Legislative site and read this Bill and see all the rights they tried to take away. However, HB 3668 has many of the other components of HB 3364 and the main one was to add ORS 656.248 the Workers' Comps statute, trust me this wasn't a coincidence. In HB 3364 Farmers was trying to pass legislation that wouldn't allow medical providers to balance bill their patients for services they deemed not to be reasonable and necessary. For Farmers that would be everything. By doing this a patient could never file a complaint to the Commissioner or file suit as they wouldn't be responsible for it. We would be forced to go into arbitration per the Bill. This should be pretty frightening, especially since Farmers is routinely trying to use Medicare NCCI Edits to deny services as a component of the Manipulation. I hope everyone is fighting that, this they can't do it and don't let them fool you in thinking they can. So if HB 3364 passed, they pretty much guaranteed they wouldn't loose anymore $1.95 million dollar lawsuits. Don't think they won't try again, since they got away with HB 3668. Everyone needs to be aware that some carriers are trying to institute the new law on all their policyholders effective 1/1/04, which violates the actual law, as it to start when the policyholder renews. Right now Allstate and State Farm are trying to get away with it and the Commissioner is trying to stop them, if you know of any other carriers doing this then you have to contact the Commissioner immediately. This has gotten so bad that Rep. from Ontario has assigned a Senior Analyst from the Ins. Division to work with me personally on this issue and I am free to contact him anytime with any details, so feel free to pass anything on to me. It is important that every Chiropractor learns how to go to the website for the legislator and learn how to access the Bills and the history and then go to the Ins. Div website and read their Bulletins, next pull up Ch. 656 Worker's Comp. laws and recognize how we are all impacted very negatively. I haven't made any of this up and it is all there for any one to access and read how we have been impacted. We must all pull together and fight the good fight and we must bond with other providers to help them understand how serious this is. I have already contact the Massage Therapy Assoc. and Acupuncture Assoc., both also new nothing about the bill. In additional I have called Physical Therapist and Dentist, both were also in the dark. I will keep you posted if the media picks this up, keep your fingers crossed. It is important we help our patients, friends and family to see beyond this as being just a Chiropractor issue, because it is truly so much more. Stockton Jordan Stockton, D.C.'s wife and Office Manger Cedar Mill Chiropractic Clinic 503-646-3393 p.s. I have been working in the Healthcare field for doctors and insurance companies since 1979, so I have a good grasp on how the laws work and doesn't work and I know when we are all being taken for a ride. I am on new to the list, so not too sure how to reply so everyone can read this, but feel free to pass it all on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 No, it's not the full..nor accurate story . I'm in the process of attempting to put the history of how we killed Farmer's original HB-3664 (thanks to my good friend and chiropractic patient Rep. Jeff Kropf). .....as well as why we did not lobby against 3668 (because to many groups were in favor of it, we would be the only group against it, we would not of stopped it, and in doing so lost political currency in a failed attempt to do so...ya gotta pick your battles) and the amendment the auto carriers negotiated with Rep. Bates (and others) into the original bill which was the fee scedule. I very much applaud 's heads (God bless you young lady!) up in calling me relative to the Insurance Divisions early initial attempt in determining the legislative intent of the bill...as they were headed down a path we did not want...to say the least!! The numerous legislative friends who I had call him and my subsequent one on one meeting with him Thursday Feb 5 seem to have the policy analyst rightly convinced that this bill's intent relative to the W/C law is quite narrow and specific to the fee scedule only. That it has nothing to do with restricting any benefits/provider groups (namely us). The last thing we want is a media bashing of this guy and his department when I now have him and the Division traveling down the correct road....he's a good guy (he and I met a year ago regarding our "IME-Bill" when he was just starting with the division) and we don't wish to "tick off" the Insurance Division Management! I will next repost the statement Senior Policy Analyst Morter sent to Rep. Mike Schaufler (who's a great guy, who's wife is a dentist and chiropractic patient, who ICE PAC has given money to) validating this not an hour and a half following Mr. Morter and I's one on one meeting at the Insurance Division. It's been one hell of a week! Vern Saboe, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP President Chiropractic Association of Oregon PIPHello Dr. Abrahamson,I am very aware of what has been going on and everyone should be quite concerned. They got this one in under the radar. I have been calling and writing to my Senator and Representative and any other lawmaker that may be sympathetic to our cause, plus working with the Insurance Commissioners office for the past two weeks since I learned the truth. Today I was contacted by the news media as they try to put a story together.The rumor is accurate. House Bill 3668 is so vague it has been left up to the Commissioner to interpret, and the way the Bill was written since it includes ORS 656.248 it implies that we will be governed by the WC fee schedules as well as all the other restrictions and limitations that go along with it. As under the statute the expense itself must qualify first. Are you aware that HB 3668 hit the floor on 8/18/03 and was approved by the Senate on 8/23/03, with only two day of short public hearings. They knew to bring at the end of the sessions and how to apply the pressure to get it passed. All Oregonians should be shocked that we lost our rights under the 14th Amendment for Due Process under this Bill. We all anxiously await the Commissioner to resolve this if possible, their hands maybe tied based on what our lawmakers did and they don't expect an answer real soon. They are still researching and the more complaints that can come in from patients the best and consumers, which we are too. Right now we all maybe seeing patients that could have their services denied if they don't act soon. Find out what Representatives and Senators cover the districts for your and your patients and encourage them to complain. You can print this information right off of the State's legislative website.We may have to fight it in the Supreme Court per Dan Gatti, unless we can't get Oregonians to rally around this issue and get signatures to Repeal the Bill.You might think, well if they can resolved it to the fee schedule only, maybe it will be alright, but this is just today. You need to read ORS 656.248 and see what the Director can use for the fees, one choice is Medicare and how can the WC Director service two masters? His first priority is to employers and not consumers. The whole plan is unconstitutional and discriminatory as we are two distinct classes. It can't work fairly and Farmers knows that, but unfortunately our lawmakers didn't figure that out.If you read the sponsorship of HB 3668 it looks like it was requested by the Ambulance Assoc. and ER Doc's only. That is just a smoke screen, they only wanted trauma cases to have more PIP added to them, you can see this if you trace the history of the Bill in 2003 session, but if you dig deeper you will find a shocking Bill introduced by Farmers Insurance in March called HB 3364. I urge every medical professional to go to the State of Oregon Legislative site and read this Bill and see all the rights they tried to take away. However, HB 3668 has many of the other components of HB 3364 and the main one was to add ORS 656.248 the Workers' Comps statute, trust me this wasn't a coincidence. In HB 3364 Farmers was trying to pass legislation that wouldn't allow medical providers to balance bill their patients for services they deemed not to be reasonable and necessary. For Farmers that would be everything. By doing this a patient could never file a complaint to the Commissioner or file suit as they wouldn't be responsible for it. We would be forced to go into arbitration per the Bill. This should be pretty frightening, especially since Farmers is routinely trying to use Medicare NCCI Edits to deny services as a component of the Manipulation. I hope everyone is fighting that, this they can't do it and don't let them fool you in thinking they can. So if HB 3364 passed, they pretty much guaranteed they wouldn't loose anymore $1.95 million dollar lawsuits. Don't think they won't try again, since they got away with HB 3668.Everyone needs to be aware that some carriers are trying to institute the new law on all their policyholders effective 1/1/04, which violates the actual law, as it to start when the policyholder renews. Right now Allstate and State Farm are trying to get away with it and the Commissioner is trying to stop them, if you know of any other carriers doing this then you have to contact the Commissioner immediately. This has gotten so bad that Rep. from Ontario has assigned a Senior Analyst from the Ins. Division to work with me personally on this issue and I am free to contact him anytime with any details, so feel free to pass anything on to me.It is important that every Chiropractor learns how to go to the website for the legislator and learn how to access the Bills and the history and then go to the Ins. Div website and read their Bulletins, next pull up Ch. 656 Worker's Comp. laws and recognize how we are all impacted very negatively. I haven't made any of this up and it is all there for any one to access and read how we have been impacted.We must all pull together and fight the good fight and we must bond with other providers to help them understand how serious this is. I have already contact the Massage Therapy Assoc. and Acupuncture Assoc., both also new nothing about the bill. In additional I have called Physical Therapist and Dentist, both were also in the dark. I will keep you posted if the media picks this up, keep your fingers crossed. It is important we help our patients, friends and family to see beyond this as being just a Chiropractor issue, because it is truly so much more. StocktonJordan Stockton, D.C.'s wife and Office MangerCedar Mill Chiropractic Clinic503-646-3393p.s. I have been working in the Healthcare field for doctors and insurance companies since 1979, so I have a good grasp on how the laws work and doesn't work and I know when we are all being taken for a ride. I am on new to the list, so not too sure how to reply so everyone can read this, but feel free to pass it all on. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Please reply to Vern in thanks for this effort. Those of us who remember the passing of the work comp. bill by Neil Goldschmidt know how a bill can get through while everyone sleeps. Additionally, even if you are awake, if your voice is too tiny to sound an alarm, the bill goes through nonetheless. The ICE-PAC is a fairly painless way to keep lobbying dollars going to Salem. Lobbying is a way to have a group's desires heard without having to travel to the capitol in person. The process is neither good nor evil although it could be argued that the recent Medicare Drug bill was pushed into washington in a wooden horse by a bunch of demons from hell. Incentivising the elderly in America to take drugs is like inviting a bunch of teenagers to a buffet and hoping they don't eat too much! I am writing to 3 doctors off this list to try to get them to donate $25/month to the ICE-PAC. Of course they should donate more, but $25 X 1200 docs per month is better than $1000 x a few on an emergency basis. I also refer to a couple of naturopaths. I will ask them to get on board as well. Vern, can you please send out another email describing the ICE-PAC which we can forward to friends? E. Abrahamson, D.C. Chiropractic physician Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic Please note " New address " 315 Second Street Lake Oswego, OR 97034 503-635-6246 drscott@... or info@... From: " Vern Saboe DC " <vas@...> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:31:19 -0800 " Oregon DC's Oregon DCs " < >, " Dr. " <drscott@...> Subject: Re: FW: PIP No, it's not the full..nor accurate story . I'm in the process of attempting to put the history of how we killed Farmer's original HB-3664 (thanks to my good friend and chiropractic patient Rep. Jeff Kropf). .....as well as why we did not lobby against 3668 (because to many groups were in favor of it, we would be the only group against it, we would not of stopped it, and in doing so lost political currency in a failed attempt to do so...ya gotta pick your battles) and the amendment the auto carriers negotiated with Rep. Bates (and others) into the original bill which was the fee scedule. I very much applaud 's heads (God bless you young lady!) up in calling me relative to the Insurance Divisions early initial attempt in determining the legislative intent of the bill...as they were headed down a path we did not want...to say the least!! The numerous legislative friends who I had call him and my subsequent one on one meeting with him Thursday Feb 5 seem to have the policy analyst rightly convinced that this bill's intent relative to the W/C law is quite narrow and specific to the fee scedule only. That it has nothing to do with restricting any benefits/provider groups (namely us). The last thing we want is a media bashing of this guy and his department when I now have him and the Division traveling down the correct road....he's a good guy (he and I met a year ago regarding our " IME-Bill " when he was just starting with the division) and we don't wish to " tick off " the Insurance Division Management! I will next repost the statement Senior Policy Analyst Morter sent to Rep. Mike Schaufler (who's a great guy, who's wife is a dentist and chiropractic patient, who ICE PAC has given money to) validating this not an hour and a half following Mr. Morter and I's one on one meeting at the Insurance Division. It's been one hell of a week! Vern Saboe, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP President Chiropractic Association of Oregon PIP Hello Dr. Abrahamson, I am very aware of what has been going on and everyone should be quite concerned. They got this one in under the radar. I have been calling and writing to my Senator and Representative and any other lawmaker that may be sympathetic to our cause, plus working with the Insurance Commissioners office for the past two weeks since I learned the truth. Today I was contacted by the news media as they try to put a story together. The rumor is accurate. House Bill 3668 is so vague it has been left up to the Commissioner to interpret, and the way the Bill was written since it includes ORS 656.248 it implies that we will be governed by the WC fee schedules as well as all the other restrictions and limitations that go along with it. As under the statute the expense itself must qualify first. Are you aware that HB 3668 hit the floor on 8/18/03 and was approved by the Senate on 8/23/03, with only two day of short public hearings. They knew to bring at the end of the sessions and how to apply the pressure to get it passed. All Oregonians should be shocked that we lost our rights under the 14th Amendment for Due Process under this Bill. We all anxiously await the Commissioner to resolve this if possible, their hands maybe tied based on what our lawmakers did and they don't expect an answer real soon. They are still researching and the more complaints that can come in from patients the best and consumers, which we are too. Right now we all maybe seeing patients that could have their services denied if they don't act soon. Find out what Representatives and Senators cover the districts for your and your patients and encourage them to complain. You can print this information right off of the State's legislative website. We may have to fight it in the Supreme Court per Dan Gatti, unless we can't get Oregonians to rally around this issue and get signatures to Repeal the Bill. You might think, well if they can resolved it to the fee schedule only, maybe it will be alright, but this is just today. You need to read ORS 656.248 and see what the Director can use for the fees, one choice is Medicare and how can the WC Director service two masters? His first priority is to employers and not consumers. The whole plan is unconstitutional and discriminatory as we are two distinct classes. It can't work fairly and Farmers knows that, but unfortunately our lawmakers didn't figure that out. If you read the sponsorship of HB 3668 it looks like it was requested by the Ambulance Assoc. and ER Doc's only. That is just a smoke screen, they only wanted trauma cases to have more PIP added to them, you can see this if you trace the history of the Bill in 2003 session, but if you dig deeper you will find a shocking Bill introduced by Farmers Insurance in March called HB 3364. I urge every medical professional to go to the State of Oregon Legislative site and read this Bill and see all the rights they tried to take away. However, HB 3668 has many of the other components of HB 3364 and the main one was to add ORS 656.248 the Workers' Comps statute, trust me this wasn't a coincidence. In HB 3364 Farmers was trying to pass legislation that wouldn't allow medical providers to balance bill their patients for services they deemed not to be reasonable and necessary. For Farmers that would be everything. By doing this a patient could never file a complaint to the Commissioner or file suit as they wouldn't be responsible for it. We would be forced to go into arbitration per the Bill. This should be pretty frightening, especially since Farmers is routinely trying to use Medicare NCCI Edits to deny services as a component of the Manipulation. I hope everyone is fighting that, this they can't do it and don't let them fool you in thinking they can. So if HB 3364 passed, they pretty much guaranteed they wouldn't loose anymore $1.95 million dollar lawsuits. Don't think they won't try again, since they got away with HB 3668. Everyone needs to be aware that some carriers are trying to institute the new law on all their policyholders effective 1/1/04, which violates the actual law, as it to start when the policyholder renews. Right now Allstate and State Farm are trying to get away with it and the Commissioner is trying to stop them, if you know of any other carriers doing this then you have to contact the Commissioner immediately. This has gotten so bad that Rep. from Ontario has assigned a Senior Analyst from the Ins. Division to work with me personally on this issue and I am free to contact him anytime with any details, so feel free to pass anything on to me. It is important that every Chiropractor learns how to go to the website for the legislator and learn how to access the Bills and the history and then go to the Ins. Div website and read their Bulletins, next pull up Ch. 656 Worker's Comp. laws and recognize how we are all impacted very negatively. I haven't made any of this up and it is all there for any one to access and read how we have been impacted. We must all pull together and fight the good fight and we must bond with other providers to help them understand how serious this is. I have already contact the Massage Therapy Assoc. and Acupuncture Assoc., both also new nothing about the bill. In additional I have called Physical Therapist and Dentist, both were also in the dark. I will keep you posted if the media picks this up, keep your fingers crossed. It is important we help our patients, friends and family to see beyond this as being just a Chiropractor issue, because it is truly so much more. Stockton Jordan Stockton, D.C.'s wife and Office Manger Cedar Mill Chiropractic Clinic 503-646-3393 p.s. I have been working in the Healthcare field for doctors and insurance companies since 1979, so I have a good grasp on how the laws work and doesn't work and I know when we are all being taken for a ride. I am on new to the list, so not too sure how to reply so everyone can read this, but feel free to pass it all on. OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Thanks , thanks for being an "ICE PAC" contributor, thanks for coming to last year's Chiropractic Day at the Capitol (the 1st we have had in 12 years!), and thanks for generally getting in the game for your patients and this wonderful profession!! "ICE PAC" This is not money that goes into lobbying. Our lobbyist Mr. Marshal Coba whom I researched for nearly 6 months along with many others, is paid out of the general fund of the Chiropractic Association of Oregon. ...and that money comes from the currently all to few doctors who are doing what is right in my opinion, what is so disparately needed in this great state, what is expected of professionals, the money is coming from colleagues who are members of their trade organization. The cost of being a member of the CAO is $60 per month for regular membership and that money goes directly to fund our lobbyist. ICE PAC is our Political Action Committee fund or for short what everyone refers to as our "PAC." It must be registered with the Secretary of State and there are very specific rules and regulations regarding reporting of this money and very stiff fines if you don't cross all the tees and dot all the I's. This is a separate fund which we use to give money to key Legislators that are friends of the profession, to those we wish to listen to us, and to viable candidates. I cannot tell you how important it is to have this money to give to legislators and candidates. You don't buy votes with this money, we are building relationships, giving money to a Legislator who is trying to get re-elected validates to them that you indeed are a true supporter. It costs a huge amount of money to get or stay elected $60,000 to $150,000 and these folks must receive PAC money or they are dead! In addition ICE PAC funds are used to underwrite functions such as the Feb. 17th luncheon in Keizer for chiropractic patient Rep. Dalto. This type of fund raiser leaves a lasting impression that simply nothing else can and that which our enemies such as Farmer's Insurance cannot duplicate!! It is what can help level the playing field for us! and dear colleagues there is simply nothing that can compare to 60 doctors filling a room for a Legislator and with that legislator or candidate going home with 60 + individual checks from 60 different doctors who have traveled from as far away as Portland, Eugene even Ashland to show their collective support...nothing even comes close....nothing the Auto Insurance rs can do can even remotely touch this....NOTHING! A $1000 PAC check in the mail from just another organization (Farmer's, Snake Farm, Allstate, SAIF) just doesn't compare. Considering that we have only just gotten back into the "legislative game" in Salem starting in the 2001 session we have already made incredible gains and relationships in Salem and our momentum is only gaining...gaining dear colleagues like a Freight Train! I have taken the PAC from $2,500 in the red/hole to 165 monthly ICE PAC contributors which represents $66,000 each year to give to our legislative friends in Salem. However my minimum goal (and I will reach it)is $100,000 each year!! I personally intent on calling each and every colleague (1100) in the state asking them to step up to the plate and be an ICE PAC contributor. BTW Dr. Jordan and Stockton have just agreed to be monthly ICE PAC contributors..thanks guys!! Please dear colleagues who are on this list serve if your are not already an ICE PAC contributor please consider doing so. As my good friend and valued colleague Dr. Sunny K. says "It will take all of us to keep all of us in business!" Here are the levels of giving Gold $85/month (which is what my wife and I do), Silver $45/month, and Bronze $25/month. Simply post me off list giving me the mailing address where you wish our ICE PAC accountant to send the invoices and the level you wish to give and I will promptly add you to our growing list. Also each month I write a "ICE PAC Newsletter" which reviews all of the key meetings we have had, who we have given money to, the strategy of why we gave money to that individual, a few notable inside tips about that candidate or legislator...so you know your hard earned money is being spent wisely, reinforcing quite simply that your contribution is making a real difference! ...and it is! Any of you colleagues who wish to start being an ICE PAC contributor and would like I would be very willing to send you all the back issues of the ICE PAC Newsletter. They are usually only two pages long but very informative as per where the money is going and strategy. So please dear colleagues come join your fellow doctors and start giving to ICE PAC help us get to the $100,000 yearly mark and be one of the top 5% PACs in the state! ....Please understand that ALL of your money is given to legislators and viable candidates, for the things I described above....nothing is wasted..nothing! Come join us it's going to be great! Have a great week, hit a home run at the clinic! Vern Saboe, DC., DACAN.,FICC., DABFP President Chiropractic Association of Oregon Treasurer "ICE PAC" PIPHello Dr. Abrahamson,I am very aware of what has been going on and everyone should be quite concerned. They got this one in under the radar. I have been calling and writing to my Senator and Representative and any other lawmaker that may be sympathetic to our cause, plus working with the Insurance Commissioners office for the past two weeks since I learned the truth. Today I was contacted by the news media as they try to put a story together.The rumor is accurate. House Bill 3668 is so vague it has been left up to the Commissioner to interpret, and the way the Bill was written since it includes ORS 656.248 it implies that we will be governed by the WC fee schedules as well as all the other restrictions and limitations that go along with it. As under the statute the expense itself must qualify first. Are you aware that HB 3668 hit the floor on 8/18/03 and was approved by the Senate on 8/23/03, with only two day of short public hearings. They knew to bring at the end of the sessions and how to apply the pressure to get it passed. All Oregonians should be shocked that we lost our rights under the 14th Amendment for Due Process under this Bill. We all anxiously await the Commissioner to resolve this if possible, their hands maybe tied based on what our lawmakers did and they don't expect an answer real soon. They are still researching and the more complaints that can come in from patients the best and consumers, which we are too. Right now we all maybe seeing patients that could have their services denied if they don't act soon. Find out what Representatives and Senators cover the districts for your and your patients and encourage them to complain. You can print this information right off of the State's legislative website.We may have to fight it in the Supreme Court per Dan Gatti, unless we can't get Oregonians to rally around this issue and get signatures to Repeal the Bill.You might think, well if they can resolved it to the fee schedule only, maybe it will be alright, but this is just today. You need to read ORS 656.248 and see what the Director can use for the fees, one choice is Medicare and how can the WC Director service two masters? His first priority is to employers and not consumers. The whole plan is unconstitutional and discriminatory as we are two distinct classes. It can't work fairly and Farmers knows that, but unfortunately our lawmakers didn't figure that out.If you read the sponsorship of HB 3668 it looks like it was requested by the Ambulance Assoc. and ER Doc's only. That is just a smoke screen, they only wanted trauma cases to have more PIP added to them, you can see this if you trace the history of the Bill in 2003 session, but if you dig deeper you will find a shocking Bill introduced by Farmers Insurance in March called HB 3364. I urge every medical professional to go to the State of Oregon Legislative site and read this Bill and see all the rights they tried to take away. However, HB 3668 has many of the other components of HB 3364 and the main one was to add ORS 656.248 the Workers' Comps statute, trust me this wasn't a coincidence. In HB 3364 Farmers was trying to pass legislation that wouldn't allow medical providers to balance bill their patients for services they deemed not to be reasonable and necessary. For Farmers that would be everything. By doing this a patient could never file a complaint to the Commissioner or file suit as they wouldn't be responsible for it. We would be forced to go into arbitration per the Bill. This should be pretty frightening, especially since Farmers is routinely trying to use Medicare NCCI Edits to deny services as a component of the Manipulation. I hope everyone is fighting that, this they can't do it and don't let them fool you in thinking they can. So if HB 3364 passed, they pretty much guaranteed they wouldn't loose anymore $1.95 million dollar lawsuits. Don't think they won't try again, since they got away with HB 3668.Everyone needs to be aware that some carriers are trying to institute the new law on all their policyholders effective 1/1/04, which violates the actual law, as it to start when the policyholder renews. Right now Allstate and State Farm are trying to get away with it and the Commissioner is trying to stop them, if you know of any other carriers doing this then you have to contact the Commissioner immediately. This has gotten so bad that Rep. from Ontario has assigned a Senior Analyst from the Ins. Division to work with me personally on this issue and I am free to contact him anytime with any details, so feel free to pass anything on to me.It is important that every Chiropractor learns how to go to the website for the legislator and learn how to access the Bills and the history and then go to the Ins. Div website and read their Bulletins, next pull up Ch. 656 Worker's Comp. laws and recognize how we are all impacted very negatively. I haven't made any of this up and it is all there for any one to access and read how we have been impacted.We must all pull together and fight the good fight and we must bond with other providers to help them understand how serious this is. I have already contact the Massage Therapy Assoc. and Acupuncture Assoc., both also new nothing about the bill. In additional I have called Physical Therapist and Dentist, both were also in the dark. I will keep you posted if the media picks this up, keep your fingers crossed. It is important we help our patients, friends and family to see beyond this as being just a Chiropractor issue, because it is truly so much more. StocktonJordan Stockton, D.C.'s wife and Office MangerCedar Mill Chiropractic Clinic503-646-3393p.s. I have been working in the Healthcare field for doctors and insurance companies since 1979, so I have a good grasp on how the laws work and doesn't work and I know when we are all being taken for a ride. I am on new to the list, so not too sure how to reply so everyone can read this, but feel free to pass it all on. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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