RE: Physical Therapist Bill

[Guest guest]

Thank you

Vern and Dave!

I wish I

lived in Salem, boy would I be at your sides. Yes, I will contribute to a

lobbyist, but I want clear legislative goals and the ability to focus all of my

$$ on those that everyone can agree upon, meaning CAO and ODOC and myself et

al. Surely the defeat of PT access is one item. Others might be:

Patient

freedom of access to chiropractors while staying in hospitals or nursing

facilities without MD referral

Insurance

requirement to provide consumer a comparison their chiropractic coverage

to what would be actually good coverage so the consumer can tell when they

are mislead into fake chiropractic coverage

Consider

legislation preventing non-Medicare insurance from offering coverage for chiropractic

that is below the standard of practice ( no exams paid, etc ) as a form of

health fraud

Dissolution

of the OPUG’s (not much agreement expected here)

$$$ Support

of the Insurance Equality Initiative signature gathering.

Replacement

of the workers comp 12/30 rule with maximum clinical improvement standards

and timely referral requirements

There are

my favorites! Where are yours ODOC and CAO? As you point out Vern, a lobbyist

would help protect us from adverse legislation while working toward the goals

we can agree upon. Obviously there would be no point in paying a lobbyist to

push through legislation we would all fight over. Thus, I suggest that

cooperation and agreement is the only logical course, although not the most

popular direction with the political decision makers.

Sincerely,

Willard

Bertrand

P.S. AS

you know I do contribute to CAO efforts presently and in the past upon a case

by case basis, even though I am not a member. Also I was a member twice, once

when we wasted money on an executive director, Kev* *, and the second time when

we repeated the same mistake. Now I hold my support until there is a clear

direction. Sorry twice bitten, twice shy.

-----Original

Message-----

From: Vern Saboe

[mailto:las@...]

Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 5:51 PM

grassroots ;

Subject: Physical

Therapist Bill

We had

a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have

allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of

the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language

which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We

currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of

this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's

Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I,

the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing

the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill

Fisher.

The

theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public

saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary

clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx.,

radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct

access.

I then

gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were

examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal

conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2.

Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a

" rib out " ), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower

back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate

carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher

then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not

going to do anything with it (death).

This is

a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional

lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our

" backsides " as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be

trashed by a " gut & stuff " amendment to a bill.

During

the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to

give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and

you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for

negative legislation.

Colleagues

going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and

lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our

dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear

colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire

a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please

consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic

Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial

support.

Regular

membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO

office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at

503-288-5412

Thanks

for your support,

Vern

Saboe, DC

President

Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

[Guest guest]

Yes, thanks Vern and Dave!

I, like Willard would like to hear from ODOC what legislative goals they would be willing to get behind. We are going to get burned in a big way, unless we can come together on at least a few key legislative items.

My picks in order:

1. Any willing provider law.

2. Preemptive legislation banning managed care for PIP.

3. Full attending physician status reinstated under work comp. (This would actually be #2 but I think it will be a tougher nut to crack).

If we could all agree that the above three items would be good for all chiropractors, perhaps we could quit quibbling long enough to get something done for our patients!

DR. COBY L. HANES991 NE THIRD STREETPRINEVILLE, OR 97754voice: 541.447.7230fax: 541.447.5775dochanes@...

-----Original Message-----From: Dr. Willard Bertrand, D.C. [mailto:mail@...] Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 6:06 PM Subject: RE: Physical Therapist Bill

Thank you Vern and Dave!

I wish I lived in Salem, boy would I be at your sides. Yes, I will contribute to a lobbyist, but I want clear legislative goals and the ability to focus all of my $$ on those that everyone can agree upon, meaning CAO and ODOC and myself et al. Surely the defeat of PT access is one item. Others might be:

Patient freedom of access to chiropractors while staying in hospitals or nursing facilities without MD referral Insurance requirement to provide consumer a comparison their chiropractic coverage to what would be actually good coverage so the consumer can tell when they are mislead into fake chiropractic coverage Consider legislation preventing non-Medicare insurance from offering coverage for chiropractic that is below the standard of practice ( no exams paid, etc ) as a form of health fraud Dissolution of the OPUG’s (not much agreement expected here) $$$ Support of the Insurance Equality Initiative signature gathering. Replacement of the workers comp 12/30 rule with maximum clinical improvement standards and timely referral requirements

There are my favorites! Where are yours ODOC and CAO? As you point out Vern, a lobbyist would help protect us from adverse legislation while working toward the goals we can agree upon. Obviously there would be no point in paying a lobbyist to push through legislation we would all fight over. Thus, I suggest that cooperation and agreement is the only logical course, although not the most popular direction with the political decision makers.

Sincerely,

Willard Bertrand

P.S. AS you know I do contribute to CAO efforts presently and in the past upon a case by case basis, even though I am not a member. Also I was a member twice, once when we wasted money on an executive director, Kev* *, and the second time when we repeated the same mistake. Now I hold my support until there is a clear direction. Sorry twice bitten, twice shy.

-----Original Message-----From: Vern Saboe [mailto:las@...]Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 5:51 PMgrassroots ; Subject: Physical Therapist Bill

We had a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I, the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill Fisher.

The theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx., radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct access.

I then gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2. Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a "rib out"), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not going to do anything with it (death).

This is a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our "backsides" as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be trashed by a "gut & stuff" amendment to a bill.

During the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for negative legislation.

Colleagues going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial support.

Regular membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at 503-288-5412

Thanks for your support,

Vern Saboe, DC

President Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Regardless of your affiliation you've gotta acknowledge the fact that we all owe Vern a huge "thank you" for his efforts on behalf of the profession in this legislative session.

THANK YOU, VERN!!!!!!

D Freeman Mailing address: 1230 Liberty Street NESalem, Oregon 97303ph 503 586-0127cell 503 871-0715

-----Original Message-----From: Vern Saboe [mailto:las@...]Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 5:51 PMgrassroots ; Subject: Physical Therapist Bill

We had a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I, the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill Fisher.

The theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx., radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct access.

I then gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2. Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a "rib out"), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not going to do anything with it (death).

This is a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our "backsides" as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be trashed by a "gut & stuff" amendment to a bill.

During the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for negative legislation.

Colleagues going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial support.

Regular membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at 503-288-5412

Thanks for your support,

Vern Saboe, DC

President Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Vern!

Lonnie

RE: Physical Therapist Bill

Regardless of your affiliation you've gotta acknowledge the fact that we all owe Vern a huge "thank you" for his efforts on behalf of the profession in this legislative session.

THANK YOU, VERN!!!!!!

D Freeman Mailing address: 1230 Liberty Street NESalem, Oregon 97303ph 503 586-0127cell 503 871-0715

-----Original Message-----From: Vern Saboe [mailto:las@...]Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 5:51 PMgrassroots ; Subject: Physical Therapist Bill

We had a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I, the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill Fisher.

The theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx., radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct access.

I then gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2. Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a "rib out"), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not going to do anything with it (death).

This is a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our "backsides" as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be trashed by a "gut & stuff" amendment to a bill.

During the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for negative legislation.

Colleagues going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial support.

Regular membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at 503-288-5412

Thanks for your support,

Vern Saboe, DC

President Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Vern........~~~~~~~~~

J. Pedersen DC

RE: Physical Therapist Bill

Regardless of your affiliation you've gotta acknowledge the fact that we all owe Vern a huge "thank you" for his efforts on behalf of the profession in this legislative session.

THANK YOU, VERN!!!!!!

D Freeman Mailing address: 1230 Liberty Street NESalem, Oregon 97303ph 503 586-0127cell 503 871-0715

-----Original Message-----From: Vern Saboe [mailto:las@...]Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 5:51 PMgrassroots ; Subject: Physical Therapist Bill

We had a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I, the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill Fisher.

The theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx., radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct access.

I then gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2. Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a "rib out"), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not going to do anything with it (death).

This is a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our "backsides" as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be trashed by a "gut & stuff" amendment to a bill.

During the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for negative legislation.

Colleagues going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial support.

Regular membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at 503-288-5412

Thanks for your support,

Vern Saboe, DC

President Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Willard and all other non-members:

Willard, you especially have been vocal about all the things that must happen in order for you to "contribute" monies to help with the issues that Verne has put forth. Regardless of your whining about how things should be done, the fact remains that you will never agree 100% with what a general consensus brings to the table. It is truly shameful that Doctors in this great profession do not support the efforts to allow us ALL to continue to practice our science, art and philosophy, healing the sick and being re-imbursed at a reasonable rate for our service.

Teachers who make less money than the average DC contribute more than $50 a month towards their profession. Coming up with an excuse is easy to do. Oh, I'll join when...., I'll contribute, if... If you do not care for the CAO, fine join ODOC. If you truly cannot bring yourself to join an organization for whatever reason then at least contribute towards a lobbyist... without strings attached.

Stabilize the cranio-rectal inversion and contribute to the profession that has allowed you to make a comfortable living.

Dr Beebe

Physical Therapist Bill

We had a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I, the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill Fisher.

The theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx., radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct access.

I then gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2. Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a "rib out"), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not going to do anything with it (death).

This is a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our "backsides" as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be trashed by a "gut & stuff" amendment to a bill.

During the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for negative legislation.

Colleagues going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial support.

Regular membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at 503-288-5412

Thanks for your support,

Vern Saboe, DC

President Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr.

Beebe:

You cannot

join hands with a closed fist.

Agreement

is possible. I will as of this moment remind you that I do contribute to the

CAO legislative efforts on a limited basis. Part of that limit is secured by

your continued refusal to seek consensus. I suggest that the reason you have so

many problems with the rest of us is simply that you do not ever seek

consensus. I was the Mayor of Union, Oregon and oversaw a political

organization that would dwarf the CAO. We never would have succeeded, if we did

not recognize the vital requirement to build consensus. Its not simply my way

or the highway, it is our way or the highway. Please, try to get the chip off

your back and let us come together for one time.

This is

the moment of a lifetime! Don’t squander it on petty differences, lets find

something we have in common for once. I am the one who installed the member based

initiative for change option in the former CAO, which you folks jettisoned in

favor of the can do “top-down” form of governance. I have been there, but I

will not support an executive board ruled profession, and I will never understand

why one has ever existed so long. It is time to recognize that this profession

must from around a shared consensus view before any significant action can be

taken.

Read your

post again below. Is this an invitation to help or is it the signs of a

frustrated executive board member? Consider for a moment that I am not your adversary,

but your friend and supporter. I am communicating what it will take for us to

work together. You are throwing that to the wind. Agreement is possible. I have

given you 6 points to start from. Please address the issue directly and cease

wasting our precious time and energy on who is the most right. All that matters

is consensus, even on one point.

Sincerely,

Willard Bertrand,

D.C., A.F.B.C.I.A., C.C.N., C.A.B.C.N.

22 years of practice in Oregon, 7 children born at home, 25 years of

marriage.

Are you

sure you don’t want me on your side? My hand is open. Let’s join together for once.

-----Original

Message-----

From: D Beebe, D.C.

[mailto:res0btan@...]

Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 8:31 AM

grassroots ;

; Vern Saboe

Subject: Re: Physical

Therapist Bill

Willard

and all other non-members:

Willard,

you especially have been vocal about all the things that must happen in order

for you to " contribute " monies to help with the issues that Verne has

put forth. Regardless of your whining about how things should be done, the fact

remains that you will never agree 100% with what a general consensus brings to

the table. It is truly shameful that Doctors in this great profession do

not support the efforts to allow us ALL to continue to practice our science, art

and philosophy, healing the sick and being re-imbursed at a reasonable rate for

our service.

Teachers

who make less money than the average DC contribute more than $50 a month

towards their profession. Coming up with an excuse is easy to do. Oh, I'll join

when...., I'll contribute, if... If you do not care for the CAO, fine join

ODOC. If you truly cannot bring yourself to join an organization for whatever

reason then at least contribute towards a lobbyist... without strings attached.

Stabilize

the cranio-rectal inversion and contribute to the profession that has allowed

you to make a comfortable living.

Dr

Beebe

-----

Original Message -----

From: Vern Saboe

grassroots

;

Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003

5:50 PM

Subject:

Physical Therapist Bill

We had

a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have

allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of

the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language

which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We

currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of

this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's

Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I,

the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing

the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill

Fisher.

The

theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public

saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary

clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx.,

radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct

access.

I then

gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were

examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal

conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2.

Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a

" rib out " ), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower

back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate

carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher

then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not

going to do anything with it (death).

This is

a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional

lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our

" backsides " as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be

trashed by a " gut & stuff " amendment to a bill.

During

the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to

give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and

you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for

negative legislation.

Colleagues

going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and

lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our

dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear

colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire

a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please

consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic

Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial

support.

Regular

membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO

office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at

503-288-5412

Thanks

for your support,

Vern

Saboe, DC

President

Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Beebe:

The CAO is not driven by external consensus. The only consensus comes

from it small membership. Until there is consensus outside of the CAO, there

will be ceaseless bantering about who deserves the most credit, who is saving

the free-riders, etc. That you have never seen me as a supporter, means that

you have never noted the over $2K I have sent to your group over the years.

While that is not as much as yourself, it certainly does not leave me as a non-supporter.

I stopped the cash flow after I realized it was misdirected. It was initially

misdirected into the formation of an IPO, which later took the seed money and

separated itself from the CAO -- a wise decision; into a lobbyist who brought

us 12/30 and then said we were

happy campers; and into an administrative financial crisis under the tutelage

of an overpaid Executive secretary who was a poor secretary at best. That’s

when I got off the boat, but I still contribute $$ each year to legislative

campaigns, when I see the agenda. And yet you hesitate to call me a supporter.

No wonder the apathy is rampant!

When you serve the public you must resist the urge to become cynical

about those whom you served. That is the trap that you must avoid, the “I’ve

served and you have not” trap. The “I’ve been to a hundred committee meetings

and where were you?” trap.

You cannot bring this profession forward until you accept the need for

consensus, external to the CAO, prior to action, particularly where the

legislature is concerned. I have watched all the posts here and see consistent

disregard for consensus outside of the small nucleus within the CAO. All a

waste of time. Take your political engines and strap them to a consensus building

across all boundaries, do not require membership or a test of loyalty to

participate, and watch us for the first time make progress by taking our first

step together.

Really Dan, I am not against you, I am simply for us.

Willard Bertrand

-----Original

Message-----

From: D Beebe, D.C.

[mailto:res0btan@...]

Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 2:23 PM

Dr. Willard Bertrand, D.C.

Cc:

grassroots

Subject: Re: Physical

Therapist Bill

Hi

Willard:

I am no

longer an executive board member. The CAO's governance was not top down. Peruse

the governance model you will see I am correct. It is a model driven by the

membership. Consensus driven... the Carver model.

I have

never seen you as a supporter. Where were you when we drove through the entire

state holding meeting after meeting in an attempt to gain consensus? ( and yes

there was a rather well attended meeting in Pendleton and I do not recall you

being there even though all members and non members where invited across the

state)The legislative plan was formed following that consensus

process. You are incorrect in your posting of what the CAO is and does.

Read the bylaws and at least argue from a point of clarity.

You

indicate that the road has been my way or the highway. I would argue that the

opposite has been true. I have heard excuses from you concerning

high admin costs, an opposing view of the Carver model (consensus

driven), for a political organization and on and on. I am simply calling

bullshit here.

The

point here is that there are many DC's out there who are riding the coattails

of people like Verne who are putting in the time and effort to see that you get

to continue to practice in the manner that you are accustomed. My opinion is

that it is shameful for ANY DC to not contribute.

I

am not the one you need to lecture concerning wasting time.

Dr

Beebe

-----

Original Message -----

From: Dr. Willard

Bertrand, D.C.

D Beebe,

D.C. ; grassroots

;

; Vern Saboe

Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003

11:28 AM

Subject: RE:

Physical Therapist Bill

Dear Dr. Beebe:

You cannot join hands with

a closed fist.

Agreement is possible. I

will as of this moment remind you that I do contribute to the CAO legislative

efforts on a limited basis. Part of that limit is secured by your continued

refusal to seek consensus. I suggest that the reason you have so many problems

with the rest of us is simply that you do not ever seek consensus. I was the

Mayor of Union, Oregon and oversaw a political organization that would dwarf

the CAO. We never would have succeeded, if we did not recognize the vital

requirement to build consensus. Its not simply my way or the highway, it is our

way or the highway. Please, try to get the chip off your back and let us come

together for one time.

This is the moment of a

lifetime! Don’t squander it on petty differences, lets find something we have

in common for once. I am the one who installed the member based initiative for

change option in the former CAO, which you folks jettisoned in favor of the can

do “top-down” form of governance. I have been there, but I will not support an

executive board ruled profession, and I will never understand why one has ever

existed so long. It is time to recognize that this profession must from around

a shared consensus view before any significant action can be taken.

Read your post again below.

Is this an invitation to help or is it the signs of a frustrated executive

board member? Consider for a moment that I am not your adversary, but your

friend and supporter. I am communicating what it will take for us to work

together. You are throwing that to the wind. Agreement is possible. I have

given you 6 points to start from. Please address the issue directly and cease

wasting our precious time and energy on who is the most right. All that matters

is consensus, even on one point.

Sincerely,

Willard Bertrand, D.C.,

A.F.B.C.I.A., C.C.N., C.A.B.C.N.

22 years of practice in Oregon, 7 children born at home, 25 years of

marriage.

Are you sure you don’t want

me on your side? My hand is open. Let’s join together for once.

Physical Therapist Bill

We had

a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have

allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of

the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language

which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We

currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of

this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's

Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I,

the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing

the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill

Fisher.

The

theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public

saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary

clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx.,

radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct

access.

I then

gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were

examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal

conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2.

Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a

" rib out " ), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower

back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate

carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher

then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not

going to do anything with it (death).

This is

a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional lobbyist...not

only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our

" backsides " as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be

trashed by a " gut & stuff " amendment to a bill.

During

the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to

give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and

you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for

negative legislation.

Colleagues

going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and

lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our

dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear

colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire

a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please

consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic

Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial

support.

Regular

membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO

office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at

503-288-5412

Thanks

for your support,

Vern

Saboe, DC

President

Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

[Guest guest]

Willard;

You make my whole point! Every single practitioner who is not a

part of one of the associations has their own story to validate their

failure to participate. Usually it has to do with the group not

following the path the individual deems appropriate and they withdraw

support over that issue. This " conditional love " of ones

professional association is the nature of the problem. The fact is

that the majority of practitioners practice this philosophy. They

then justify letting the organized professional associations wither by

commenting that when they deem a specific cause, or candidate worthy of

support they toss them a few bucks.

The issue is that a profession can't be successfully supported by the

uncoordinated interest of each individual on a basis of whim and

caprice. There has to be a core of critical mass within the

profession that maintains professional association membership year in,

year out without subjecting the association to the tease of " I'll

join when you make the association in my image. " for the obvious

reason that as beautiful as your image may be to you, I may have other

standards.

What happens when critical mass can not be sustained is an erosion of

energy and power for the profession. That has already

occurred. While the path downhill is unavoidably determined by the

chreode of the economic and political landscape, the path upward is one

that only sustained will and effort can propel. I'm not necessarily

trying to whoop up a groundswell of support. I don't think it will

happen. I'm just trying to turn the mirror in the appropriate

direction regarding this problem of impotence of the profession and

apathy of its members.

Best regards,

S. Feinberg, D.C.

At 04:01 PM 5/12/2003 -0700, Dr. Willard Bertrand, D.C. wrote:

Dear

Dr. Beebe:

The CAO is not driven by

external consensus. The only consensus comes from it small membership.

Until there is consensus outside of the CAO, there will be ceaseless

bantering about who deserves the most credit, who is saving the

free-riders, etc. That you have never seen me as a supporter, means that

you have never noted the over $2K I have sent to your group over the

years. While that is not as much as yourself, it certainly does not leave

me as a non-supporter. I stopped the cash flow after I realized it was

misdirected. It was initially misdirected into the formation of an IPO,

which later took the seed money and separated itself from the CAO -- a

wise decision; into a lobbyist who brought us 12/30 and then said

we were happy campers; and into an administrative financial crisis under

the tutelage of an overpaid Executive secretary who was a poor secretary

at best. Thats when I got off the boat, but I still contribute $$ each

year to legislative campaigns, when I see the agenda. And yet you

hesitate to call me a supporter. No wonder the apathy is rampant!

When you serve the public you

must resist the urge to become cynical about those whom you served. That

is the trap that you must avoid, the Ive served and you have nottrap. The

Ive been to a hundred committee meetings and where were you?trap.

You cannot bring this

profession forward until you accept the need for consensus, external to

the CAO, prior to action, particularly where the legislature is

concerned. I have watched all the posts here and see consistent disregard

for consensus outside of the small nucleus within the CAO. All a waste of

time. Take your political engines and strap them to a consensus building

across all boundaries, do not require membership or a test of loyalty to

participate, and watch us for the first time make progress by taking our

first step together.

Really Dan, I am not against

you, I am simply for us.

Willard Bertrand

Re: Physical Therapist Bill

Hi Willard:

I am no longer an executive board member. The

CAO's governance was not top down. Peruse the governance model you will

see I am correct. It is a model driven by the membership. Consensus

driven... the Carver model.

I have never seen you as a supporter. Where

were you when we drove through the entire state holding meeting after

meeting in an attempt to gain consensus? ( and yes there was a rather

well attended meeting in Pendleton and I do not recall you being there

even though all members and non members where invited across the

state)The legislative plan was formed following that consensus process.

You are incorrect in your posting of what the CAO is and does. Read the

bylaws and at least argue from a point of clarity.

You indicate that the road has been my way or

the highway. I would argue that the opposite has been true. I have heard

excuses from you concerning high admin costs, an opposing

view of the Carver model (consensus driven), for a political organization

and on and on. I am simply calling bullshit here.

The point here is that there are many DC's out

there who are riding the coattails of people like Verne who are putting

in the time and effort to see that you get to continue to practice in the

manner that you are accustomed. My opinion is that it is shameful for ANY

DC to not contribute.

I am not the one you need to lecture concerning

wasting time.

Dr Beebe

Physical Therapist Bill

We had a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I, the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill Fisher.

The theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx., radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct access.

I then gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2. Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a " rib out " ), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not going to do anything with it (death).

This is a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our " backsides " as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be trashed by a " gut & stuff " amendment to a bill.

During the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for negative legislation.

Colleagues going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial support.

Regular membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at 503-288-5412

Thanks for your support,

Vern Saboe, DC

President Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Hi Les:

You are

right on target. I say lets build a state-wide consensus. Start with a list of

each of our legislative goals. Then spend the time and money to make a

statewide consensus. Then, and only then, put our money where we agree and let

the rest of the interests pay for what they will. Here are the goals proposed

so far here on the list. Are there others? No response is the same as a goal:

to do nothing but defend our old position. I am at ease with that, as we have

been there a long time already.

Coby’s

1. Any

willing provider law.

2.

Preemptive legislation banning managed care for PIP.

3.

Full attending physician status reinstated under work comp. (This would

actually be #2 but I think it will be a tougher nut to crack).

Willard’s

Patient

freedom of access to chiropractors while staying in hospitals or nursing

facilities without MD referral

Insurance

requirement to provide consumer a comparison their chiropractic coverage

to what would be actually good coverage so the consumer can tell when they

are mislead into fake chiropractic coverage

Consider

legislation preventing non-Medicare insurance from offering coverage for

chiropractic that is below the standard of practice ( no exams paid, etc )

as a form of health  fraud

Dissolution

of the OPUG’s (not much agreement expected here)

$$$

Support of the Insurance Equality Initiative signature gathering.

Replacement

of the workers comp 12/30 rule with maximum clinical improvement standards

and timely referral requirements

Apparently,

others are still in preparation. All discussion has been peripheral to

substantive goals. No goals, no actions.

Sincerely,

Willard

Bertrand

-----Original

Message-----

From: S. Feinberg

[mailto:feinberg@...]

Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:11 PM

Dr. Willard Bertrand, D.C.;

Oregon DC List

Cc:

grassroots

Subject: RE: Physical

Therapist Bill

Willard;

You make my whole point! Every single practitioner who is not a part of

one of the associations has their own story to validate their failure to

participate. Usually it has to do with the group not following the path

the individual deems appropriate and they withdraw support over that

issue. This " conditional love " of ones professional association

is the nature of the problem. The fact is that the majority of

practitioners practice this philosophy. They then justify letting the

organized professional associations wither by commenting that when they deem a

specific cause, or candidate worthy of support they toss them a few bucks.

The issue is that a profession can't be successfully supported by the

uncoordinated interest of each individual on a basis of whim and caprice.

There has to be a core of critical mass within the profession that maintains

professional association membership year in, year out without subjecting the

association to the tease of " I'll join when you make the association in my

image. " for the obvious reason that as beautiful as your image may be to

you, I may have other standards.

What happens when critical mass can not be sustained is an erosion of energy

and power for the profession. That has already occurred. While the

path downhill is unavoidably determined by the chreode of the economic and

political landscape, the path upward is one that only sustained will and effort

can propel. I'm not necessarily trying to whoop up a groundswell of

support. I don't think it will happen. I'm just trying to turn the

mirror in the appropriate direction regarding this problem of impotence of the

profession and apathy of its members.

Best regards,

S. Feinberg, D.C.

At 04:01 PM 5/12/2003 -0700, Dr. Willard Bertrand, D.C. wrote:

Dear Dr. Beebe:

The CAO is not driven by external

consensus. The only consensus comes from it small membership. Until there is

consensus outside of the CAO, there will be ceaseless bantering about who

deserves the most credit, who is saving the free-riders, etc. That you have

never seen me as a supporter, means that you have never noted the over $2K I

have sent to your group over the years. While that is not as much as yourself,

it certainly does not leave me as a non-supporter. I stopped the cash flow

after I realized it was misdirected. It was initially misdirected into the

formation of an IPO, which later took the seed money and separated itself from

the CAO -- a wise decision; into a lobbyist who brought us 12/30 and then

said we were happy campers; and into an administrative financial crisis under

the tutelage of an overpaid Executive secretary who was a poor secretary at

best. Thats when I got off the boat, but I still contribute $$ each year to

legislative campaigns, when I see the agenda. And yet you hesitate to call me a

supporter. No wonder the apathy is rampant!

When you serve the public you must

resist the urge to become cynical about those whom you served. That is the trap

that you must avoid, the Ive served and you have nottrap. The Ive been to a

hundred committee meetings and where were you?trap.

You cannot bring this profession

forward until you accept the need for consensus, external to the CAO, prior to

action, particularly where the legislature is concerned. I have watched all the

posts here and see consistent disregard for consensus outside of the small

nucleus within the CAO. All a waste of time. Take your political engines and

strap them to a consensus building across all boundaries, do not require

membership or a test of loyalty to participate, and watch us for the first time

make progress by taking our first step together.

Really Dan, I am not against you, I am

simply for us.

Willard Bertrand

Re: Physical

Therapist Bill

Hi Willard:

I am no longer an executive board member. The

CAO's governance was not top down. Peruse the governance model you will see I

am correct. It is a model driven by the membership. Consensus driven... the

Carver model.

I have never seen you as a supporter. Where were

you when we drove through the entire state holding meeting after meeting in an

attempt to gain consensus? ( and yes there was a rather well attended meeting

in Pendleton and I do not recall you being there even though all members and

non members where invited across the state)The legislative plan was formed

following that consensus process. You are incorrect in your posting of what the

CAO is and does. Read the bylaws and at least argue from a point of clarity.

You indicate that the road has been my way or

the highway. I would argue that the opposite has been true. I have heard

excuses from you concerning high admin costs, an opposing view of

the Carver model (consensus driven), for a political organization and on and

on. I am simply calling bullshit here.

The point here is that there are many DC's out

there who are riding the coattails of people like Verne who are putting in the

time and effort to see that you get to continue to practice in the manner that

you are accustomed. My opinion is that it is shameful for ANY DC to not

contribute.

I am not the one you need to lecture concerning

wasting time.

Dr Beebe

Physical Therapist Bill

We had a very negative physical therapy bill

come at us the other day which would have allowed the PTs to gain direct

access, which appeared to restrict our use of the adjunctive physiotherapies,

and which initially delete existing language which barrred PTs from practicing

chiropractic!

We currently do not have a lobbyist and as such

the only reason I caught wind of this lousy PT bill was because of the timely

heads up phone call by the OBCE's Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I, the lobbyist from the Oregon

Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing the insurance industry met

with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill Fisher.

The theme of my discussion was that this was not

a truff battle but rather a public saftey issue. That physical

therapyists did not recieve the necessary clinical training e.g., clinical

pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx., radiographic dx, differential dx etc.,

etc which would permit them direct access.

I then gave 7 examples of cases I have had over

the years in my practice that were examples of life threatening conditions

masquerading as simple musculoskeletal conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall

duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2. Primary lung tumor which had spread to

the mediastinum (patient said they had a " rib out " ), 3. rib fracture

via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower

back pain = prostate carcinoma. 6. lower back pain =

hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher then agreed there were to many

problems with the bill and said he was not going to do anything with it

(death).

This is a perfect example of why our state trade

organization must have a professional lobbyist...not only to push

pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our " backsides " as the session

comes towards its final weeks...we can be trashed by a " gut &

stuff " amendment to a bill.

During the final days of the session the rules

are suspended and they only have to give a one hour notice of a hearing for one

of these gut and stuffed bills and you must have a warm body at the capital

checking the board every hour for negative legislation.

Colleagues going to the capital on a part time

basis simply will not cut it...and lobbyists cost money which is why we need a

strong state association.....our dues go directly to help pay for services such

as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear colleagues we must have a strong state

association which will allow us to hire a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for

our enemies.

Please consider helping your profession and

consider joining the Chiropractic Association of Oregon now. The

profession needs your finacial support.

Regular membership is as little as $50 per

month, please consider calling the CAO office today and join your trade

organization. Call the CAO at 503-288-5412

Thanks for your support,

Vern Saboe, DC

President Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep

correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster

communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will

be tolerated.

2. Always sign

your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve

is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the

rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute

correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all

personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep

correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster

communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will

be tolerated.

2. Always sign

your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve

is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the

rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute

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[Guest guest]

Hi Willard,

You are in luck…several of the items you listed are already in progress.

Action toward Coby's #2 & #3 has already begun thanks to Uncle Vern's groundwork. #3 is on track to be achieved by 2005. And # 2 didn't pass muster this year but is slated to be returned next year.

In your list, #1 will most likely begin to be achieved when Florida opens its chiropractic college within its health sciences university, due to happen in the next year or two. Dr Dallas told us that at the convention the various states will most likely follow suit.

And your #6 will be achieved when the Full Attending Physician for W/C status is achieved. Dr. Saboe is putting together the paperwork and data gathering for that program now.

It would appear that we are in much greater consensus with you then you seem to be aware. We'll be happy to accept your donation to the ICE PAC to support the work under way on the projects you want.

THanks for much for your participation. Sunny ;'-)

Physical Therapist BillWe had a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day whichwould have allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrictour use of the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially deleteexisting language which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!We currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caughtwind of this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call bythe OBCE's Executive Director Dave McTeague.Yesterday I, the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and anotherlobbyist representing the insurance industry met with the Chair of thecommittee Sen. Bill Fisher.The theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather apublic saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve thenecessary clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis,lab dx., radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit themdirect access.I then gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practicethat were examples of life threatening conditions masquerading as simplemusculoskeletal conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lowerthoracic pain) 2. Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum(patient said they had a "rib out"), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiplemyeloma. 4. lower back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostatecarcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.Sen. Fisher then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and saidhe was not going to do anything with it (death).This is a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have aprofessional lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but towatch our "backsides" as the session comes towards its final weeks...we canbe trashed by a "gut & stuff" amendment to a bill.During the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they onlyhave to give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffedbills and you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board everyhour for negative legislation.Colleagues going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cutit...and lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong stateassociation.....our dues go directly to help pay for services such as aporfessional lobbyist.Dear colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow usto hire a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.Please consider helping your profession and consider joining theChiropractic Association of Oregon now. The profession needs yourfinacial support.Regular membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider callingthe CAO office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at503-288-5412Thanks for your support,Vern Saboe, DCPresident Chiropractic Association of OregonOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is tofoster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listservemembers will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, orotherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his orher consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Joe:

I agree with this definition. It is all the OPUG’s we really need.

Willard

-----Original

Message-----

From: deadmed

[mailto:deadmed@...]

Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:08

AM

Dr. Willard Bertrand, D.C.

Subject: Re: Physical

Therapist Bill

Doc. Bertrand, hows about this: 'Chiropractic is a health care

discipline that emphasizes the inherent recuperative power of the body to heal

itself, without the use of drugs and surgery. The practice of chiropractic

focuses on the relationship between structure(primarily of the spine) and

function(as coordinated by the nervous system, and how this relationship

affects the preservation and restoration of HEALTH.'

A simple rule for us to come together I think is this: KISS. keep is simple

stupid. The more we delve into definitions, treatment modalities,etc etc that

are inconsistant with the philosophy of chiropractic, the more ambiguous we

become. The higher the risk that someone will impede on " chiropractic

territory " not to mention the public, who must be baffled by confusion.

The definition isn't something we " agree upon " , it is the

Philosophy of our profession and is a constant. People have come to

chiropractors for over 100 yrs., not because we resembled medical doctors or

could do everything that their PT does, but because of the Holistic philosophy

of chiropractic and the power that is inherent within that

philosophy. In many ways I wish the medical profession would do what they did

to The Osteopathic profession years ago: offer to exchange the D.C for an M.D.

That way we could easily maintain the definition and unity of chiropractors.

Only those adhering to chiro philo would remain indeed. Doc Joe

-----

Original Message -----

From: Dr. Willard

Bertrand, D.C.

D Beebe,

D.C. ; grassroots

;

; Vern Saboe

Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003

11:28 AM

Subject: RE:

Physical Therapist Bill

Dear Dr. Beebe:

You cannot join hands with

a closed fist.

Agreement is possible. I

will as of this moment remind you that I do contribute to the CAO legislative

efforts on a limited basis. Part of that limit is secured by your continued

refusal to seek consensus. I suggest that the reason you have so many problems

with the rest of us is simply that you do not ever seek consensus. I was the

Mayor of Union, Oregon and oversaw a political organization that would dwarf

the CAO. We never would have succeeded, if we did not recognize the vital

requirement to build consensus. Its not simply my way or the highway, it is our

way or the highway. Please, try to get the chip off your back and let us come

together for one time.

This is the moment of a

lifetime! Don’t squander it on petty differences, lets find something we have

in common for once. I am the one who installed the member based initiative for

change option in the former CAO, which you folks jettisoned in favor of the can

do “top-down” form of governance. I have been there, but I will not support an

executive board ruled profession, and I will never understand why one has ever

existed so long. It is time to recognize that this profession must from around

a shared consensus view before any significant action can be taken.

Read your post again below.

Is this an invitation to help or is it the signs of a frustrated executive

board member? Consider for a moment that I am not your adversary, but your

friend and supporter. I am communicating what it will take for us to work

together. You are throwing that to the wind. Agreement is possible. I have

given you 6 points to start from. Please address the issue directly and cease

wasting our precious time and energy on who is the most right. All that matters

is consensus, even on one point.

Sincerely,

Willard Bertrand, D.C.,

A.F.B.C.I.A., C.C.N., C.A.B.C.N.

22 years of practice in Oregon, 7 children born at home, 25 years of

marriage.

Are you sure you don’t want

me on your side? My hand is open. Let’s join together for once.

Physical Therapist Bill

We had

a very negative physical therapy bill come at us the other day which would have

allowed the PTs to gain direct access, which appeared to restrict our use of

the adjunctive physiotherapies, and which initially delete existing language

which barrred PTs from practicing chiropractic!

We

currently do not have a lobbyist and as such the only reason I caught wind of

this lousy PT bill was because of the timely heads up phone call by the OBCE's

Executive Director Dave McTeague.

Yesterday I,

the lobbyist from the Oregon Medical Assoc., and another lobbyist representing

the insurance industry met with the Chair of the committee Sen. Bill

Fisher.

The

theme of my discussion was that this was not a truff battle but rather a public

saftey issue. That physical therapyists did not recieve the necessary

clinical training e.g., clinical pathology, physical diagnosis, lab dx.,

radiographic dx, differential dx etc., etc which would permit them direct

access.

I then

gave 7 examples of cases I have had over the years in my practice that were examples

of life threatening conditions masquerading as simple musculoskeletal

conditions e.g, 1. Lg. Post wall duodenal ulcer (lower thoracic pain) 2.

Primary lung tumor which had spread to the mediastinum (patient said they had a

" rib out " ), 3. rib fracture via lifting = multiple myeloma. 4. lower

back pain = Lg ovarian cyst. 5. lower back pain = prostate

carcinoma. 6. lower back pain = hemochromotosis.

Sen. Fisher

then agreed there were to many problems with the bill and said he was not

going to do anything with it (death).

This is

a perfect example of why our state trade organization must have a professional

lobbyist...not only to push pro-chiropractic legislation but to watch our

" backsides " as the session comes towards its final weeks...we can be

trashed by a " gut & stuff " amendment to a bill.

During

the final days of the session the rules are suspended and they only have to

give a one hour notice of a hearing for one of these gut and stuffed bills and

you must have a warm body at the capital checking the board every hour for

negative legislation.

Colleagues

going to the capital on a part time basis simply will not cut it...and

lobbyists cost money which is why we need a strong state association.....our

dues go directly to help pay for services such as a porfessional lobbyist.

Dear

colleagues we must have a strong state association which will allow us to hire

a lobbyist who can indeed watch out for our enemies.

Please

consider helping your profession and consider joining the Chiropractic

Association of Oregon now. The profession needs your finacial

support.

Regular

membership is as little as $50 per month, please consider calling the CAO

office today and join your trade organization. Call the CAO at

503-288-5412

Thanks

for your support,

Vern

Saboe, DC

President

Chiropractic Association of Oregon

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members

will be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

Your use of

is subject to the

Terms of Service.