Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 That was my gut feeling, too. I think I'll toss it. RE: GSE Preservative (Grapefruit Seed Extract) LONG but INTERESTING READING , when I first started doing lotions, I bought some GSE but I never did use it because shortly after that I started hearing about GSE and how its not really as effective as Gemaben and about all the rest of the stuf you hear about GSE now. My gut feeling is not to trust it. So.... I dont use it. Shaye -----Original Message-----From: Joe Murray [mailto:jmurray2@...]Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:45 AM Subject: GSE Preservative (Grapefruit Seed Extract) LONG but INTERESTING READING From: Murray Do any of you girls use GSE as a preservative in products? I have some but have never used it. The following LONG exerpt from an article that Bill Wallace wrote (he's the chemist at Snowdrift Farms) has me really wondering whether it should be used. Have any of you ever read anything about GSE?The following is an exerpt from an article that I wrote about GSE.Grapefruit Seed ExtractThe studies for in vivo effects which have been cited appear to be inalternative health journals which may be captives of the nutritionalsupplement industry. Since these studies probably would not pass the NIHcriteria for clinical studies, the only claims which the FDA allows is as anutritional supplement. No therapeutic effects may be claimed since thestudies do not meet the criteria for drug applications. But there is a far more serious issue with grapefruit seed extract. That isits potential endocrine disrupting activity. The compounds which the sellersclaim are in GSE are known to have estrogenic activity. GSE has never beenevaluated for its estrogenic activity using the OECD protocolshttp://www.oecd.org/ehs/endocrin.htm . Phytoestrogens are wide spread in thefoods which we consume and mammalian systems have adequate means to copewith low level exposure. GSE will probably not pose a problem for yourcustomers at the recommended usage levels, but your own safety is anothermatter. Over exposure to endocrine disrupting substances ( includingphytoestrogens) can have serous impacts on reproductive biology in bothmales and females.Genistien and Diadzien are the phytoestrogens which occur in soy products.These phytoestrogens occur at levels of 500-3000 milligrams per Kg in soybeans, and in lower levels in soy products such as miso, soy milk, and tofu.Asian cultures understand the dangers associated with regular exposure tophytoestrogens which is why soy beans are heavily processed prior toconsumption. This is at about the normal usage level for GSE in cosmeticproducts. This is why I stated that GSE would probably not be a problem forconsumers. The risk is in use of the concentrate during production ofproducts.From Nutriteam, a GSE vendor "This liquid is loaded with polyphenoliccompounds, including quercitin, helperidin, campherol glycoside,neohelperidin, naringin, apigenin, rutinoside, poncirin, etc. Thepolyphenols themselves are unstable but are chemically converted into morestable substances that belong to a diverse class of products calledquaternary ammonium compounds."The named compounds are flavones which are bonded to sugars. The sugar iscleaved and replaced with amine which is converted to the ammonium chloridesalt. Effectively the product is a mixture of water soluble flavones inglycerin. This allows these compounds to be readily absorbed when ingested.It should be noted that the flavones, which are responsible for the activityof the extract are not altered, only the unstable sugar linkages are removedand replaced in the purification process. The claimed content of flavonesby Nutriteam is:Citricidal Liquid Grapefruit extractives: 60%, Vegetable glycerin USP: 40%Citricidal Powder Grapefruit extractives: 50%, Silicon Dioxide-USP: 30%,Glycerin-USP: 20%Four specific compounds from a class of compounds called isoflavones havebeen studied the most because of their wide spread impact on human andanimal health. The other major class of compounds is the lignanshttp://ehpnet1.niehs.nih.gov/docs/1996/104(5)/focus.html This NIH documentexamines both the good and risks associated with phytoestrogens. Payattention to the section on risks.A class of compounds has activity because of its basic shape, but eachcompound in the class has a different level of activity. Flavones differfrom the more widely studied isoflavones by a change in the connection ofthe phenolic group to oxygen containing ring. You just do not know the exactlevel of activity until you do the evaluation. But to protect yourself, youneed to assume that significant activity could be present and actaccordingly.From the NIH report "Neonatal and in utero exposures to sex steroidsregulate the development of sexually differentiated behavior, reproductivephysiology, and central nervous system anatomy and neurochemistry. In aletter published in the 24 May 1995 issue of the New Zealand MedicalJournal, Cliff Irvine, a professor of animal and veterinary science, andcolleagues at Lincoln University in New Zealand indicated that soy-basedinfant formulas in New Zealand contain 3-5 times as much daidzein andgenistein as the amount that will disrupt a woman's menstrual cycle.Considering diethylstilbestrol's estrogenic effects on development, Irvinestated that this exposure should be investigated. Setchell says that infantsmetabolize the phytoestrogens, but how these compounds act in their bodiesis unknown. One point of view is that they might negatively affectdevelopment, while others believe developmental effects would be negligible,and that exposure might actually help ward off hormone-related ill health inthe future."http://www.scitrex.com/scitrex/inofhumessyn.html This is a report of Inhibition of human estrogen synthetase (aromatase) by flavones. Kellis JTJr; Vickery LESourceScience, 225(4666):1032-4 1984 Sep 7AbstractSeveral naturally occurring and synthetic flavones were found to inhibit thearomatization of androstenedione and testosterone to estrogens catalyzed byhuman placental and ovarian microsomes. These flavones include (in order ofdecreasing potency) 7,8-benzoflavone, chrysin, apigenin, flavone, flavanone,and quercetin; 5,6-benzoflavone was not inhibitory. 7,8-Benzoflavone andchrysin were potent competitive inhibitors and induced spectral changes inthe aromatase cytochrome P-450 indicative of substrate displacement.Flavones may thus compete with steroids in their interaction with certainmonooxygenases and thereby alter steroid hormone metabolism.http://ehpnet1.niehs.nih.gov/docs/1998/106p85-92kao/abstract.html anotherNIH sponsored study on flavones and isoflavones.Note that several of the listed inhibitory compounds appear in Nutriteam'slist of compounds in GSE.The natural occurance of these compounds is from 0.5 to 3 % in soy beans andmuch lower in processed products, The GSE concentrate is 50 to 60 %flavones. The big risk is high level exposure to an uncharacterized materialwhich contains compounds with demonstrated effects as endocrine disrupters.If you choose to use GSE to produce products, I implore you to protectyourself and your family from the potential risks. If it has strongactivity, you can not undo the damage that excessive exposure to endocrinedisrupters can do.I can only emphasize the need for you to be very careful to limit yourexposure when using the concentrate. This means: wear disposable nitrilegloves, use separate utensils from food utensils always, use a separate washbasin to clean equipment wearing rubber gloves. It is preferable to usedisposable droppers or measuring cups for GSE to prevent contamination ofwash basins and other equipment. Mark a plastic cup using a measured amountof water and use it to measure the GSE concentrate, then throw it away. Wearan apron and wash it every time you use GSE. Wash your hands and arms wellimmediately after use. Keep food away from your work area until it iscleaned up. Above all DO NOT EAT or Smoke or Dip while you are working. Soap & ammonia water is probably an effective cleaning agent.If you doubt how quickly this stuff can spread on unwashed hands andimproperly cleaned equipment, try an experiment. Put a coating of peanutbutter and jelly on your two year old's hands. Turn them loose in yourkitchen without supervision and see how many things magically become sticky.Try another experiment, spread peanut butter on a plate and put in front ofyour child. See how it spreads to everything quickly. Without rigorouscleanup many compounds can spread the same ways and you and others can beinadvertently exposed. The only difference is that oyu can not see the GSEresidues as they spread.Since the estrogenic activity of GSE has never been evaluated, consider itsuse in production of your products carefully, if you wish to be pregnant,wish to be a partner in a pregnancy, are pregnant or are nursing. Also takegreat pains to keep the concentrate away from children since regular highlevel exposure to endocrine disrupting substances can affect the developmentof their reproductive systems.Hope this clarifies the situationSincerely,Bill Wallace - Snowdrift FarmsEverything for Soapmakers!www.snowdriftfarm.comWhile you may be receiving only consumer doses of GSE in products, there is still noevidence that GSE works as an anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, anti-yeast oranti-mold agent. Do Aubrey products still carry the warning to keep theirproducts out of humid places? Why do you suppose that is?? Our Message Boardhttp://www.voy.com/21568/Check out these great Molds!!http://soapwerks.com/martinworld.htmMember Kae's Site... Awesome oil Prices!http://www.olivetreesoaps.com/All posts to this list are copyrighted by post author. They may NOT be forwarded, copied, or used in anyway without the permission of the post author with the exception of answering posts to this list. 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Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 I always went to www.tax.state.ny.us (not linked here) and searched for Form ST-120 to print. I was going to go to the page and send the link but for some reason the URL isn't working. It may be that it's so bogged down tonight with people doing research for their income & state taxes to get done that it can't handle the load. The only other thing I can think of is that they've changed the addy for some reason. Try it tomorrow and see if you can get through. If not, you can always call and ask them what the problem is at 1-800-972-1233. Re: They told me I was still on the active list and that it would be sent out to me. Guess what I got it today. Plus they gave me a web site to print them out. I had trouble the first time, but I finally got it. So now I have an extra incase I screw it up. You should be getting yours soon. If you need the site for extra copies, let me know. Kathy Our Message Boardhttp://www.voy.com/21568/Check out these great Molds!!http://soapwerks.com/martinworld.htmMember Kae's Site... Awesome oil Prices!http://www.olivetreesoaps.com/All posts to this list are copyrighted by post author. They may NOT be forwarded, copied, or used in anyway without the permission of the post author with the exception of answering posts to this list. Posts are personal opinions only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 Clematise is one of my most favorite flowers. I can't wait until it acts like spring myself. kim -- Kim Kim sooo pretty!!! you just reminded me that I need to fix a clematise trellis this spring!LOL Sure carnt wait till it warms up out there and acts like spring! Shaye Our Message Boardhttp://www.voy.com/21568/Check out these great Molds!!http://soapwerks.com/martinworld.htmMember Kae's Site... Awesome oil Prices!http://www.olivetreesoaps.com/All posts to this list are copyrighted by post author. They may NOT be forwarded, copied, or used in anyway without the permission of the post author with the exception of answering posts to this list. Posts are personal opinions only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2002 Report Share Posted April 3, 2002 Shaye, I'm coming too! Dee ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2002 Report Share Posted April 3, 2002 Shaye...I am still planning on saturday! Can't wait to meet you. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2002 Report Share Posted April 5, 2002 and what time do you plan on going tomorrow? I have to drop my tax stuff off at my accountants right in Brockport tomorrow (I know, procrastinating big-time but we never get a refund anyways so what's the sense of being early.) I want to make sure to meet you gals. Dee -- RE: Shaye , Dee, , Great you guys!!!! I am more excited about this now! thanks for the offer to help w/ something if I need!!! I'll takemy cell phone with me and I got your number, If I need anyting I'll give youa jingle.ShayeOur Message Boardhttp://www.voy.com/21568/Check out these great Molds!!http://soapwerks.com/martinworld.htmMember Kae's Site... Awesome oil Prices!http://www.olivetreesoaps.com/All posts to this list are copyrighted by post author. They may NOT be forwarded, copied, or used in anyway without the permission of the post author with the exception of answering posts to this list. Posts are personal opinions only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2002 Report Share Posted April 5, 2002 > and what time do you plan on going tomorrow? >Dee I am hoping to get out of the house by 9 or 10...not sure really though...it will be after I get the pancakes made. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2002 Report Share Posted April 6, 2002 Me too--I have a house full of 15 teenage girls that I have to feed. But I hope to be there early-ish too! Call me if you want-----352-3893 (h) or 329-7112 (my cell phone if I'm not home anymore) Blinn wrote: > > and what time do you plan on going tomorrow? >Dee > > I am hoping to get out of the house by 9 or 10...not sure really though...it > will be after I get the pancakes made. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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