RE: re: Special Education Classrooms

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/2003 7:05:12 PM Central Standard Time,

lowenthalrj@... writes:

> Same here. A self-contained classroom is by definition without typical

> students--only the duly labeled go in there (hence making it to at least a

> degree socially isolating).

>

> Judi HL

HI

I don't think I can define Sara's self contained class as socially isolating.

The 5 kids in her class are all the same age and developmental level lol and

now because of Sara and her need for daily rewards, on Friday it's the most

sociable place to be ........... kids in her Reg Ed class are soooooo

jealous. Every week (now because of Sara lol) they have a theme party that

all work for. Last week it was an ice-cream social and all ingredients used

in the ice-cream sundaes had to be earned daily Mon-Fri (Monday-strawberries,

Tuesday- bananas etc... ) The week before it was beauty shop Friday.... They

had their nails painted, lotion applied (Sara's didn't earn lotion that week

lol) hair fixed etc.... The teacher always asks for my permission for every

weekly reward themed party and she hasn't come up with one yet that wasn't

appropriate.

I don't really look for so much social time in Reg Ed, I want Sara to learn

how to be a student in there and learn appropriate behaviors and language

ooooh my gosh I want Sara exposed to everything In her sped class she is

totally isolated from the curriculum so that means language too.

Kathy Mom to Sara 11............ since the parties started I must say Sara's

behavior has truly improved ...... she loves earning the daily rewards for

the Friday party

[Guest guest]

Self-contained and isolated means to ME that there are no typical kids in that

classroom and it is a separate room, sometimes physically isolated from the rest

of the school sometimes only isolated socially.

Elaine

re: Special Education Classrooms

Let me speak for myself here.

If you can handle some aspect of your child's development at home

(whether that is academics, job skills, or social skills), then that is

often a prime place to do it.

Janet's home rooms were sped classrooms (not isolated or

self-contained). There, she got the academics that have greatly helped

her in her quest for independence. She did nto spend time learning to

go to a grocery store or a movie in school, nor did she have any

significant vocational training (including typing, shop, inclusive home

ec classes, etc) until late middle school and during her four years of

high school.

She learned about stores from being there and taking part. She carried

the money in to pay for the gasoline at the gas stations (was twice

cheated which got an immediate angry bear response to the station

attendants). She learned about working in the day care job I found her

and which had no 'job coach', only a day care woman and program willing

to take Jan is as a worker and give her things to do. I found pay for

the two summers that she did the job full time (7 hours contact time

with five hours paid).

Yes, many sped classrooms teach little academics. That was why we

networked to find the programs and teachers (out of district, but what

would have been in-district for those of you in large districts). We

had full support of the local district and help from the IEP team

whenever whe had to change programs (every three or four years). The

fact that her home room was a sped classroom got great teaching ratios

and the ability to teach Jan as much as she could learn. It was an

environment that was stimulating for Jan and one where the teachers got

significant personal reward for their teaching success.

No, Jan's home rooms were not regular classrooms, although she knew many

kids and it was a delight to see her walk down the hall by herself

exchanging greetings with almost everyone. Much of Jan's social

inclusion came outside of school in the neighborhood.

No it wasn't perfect, but the fact that her home room was a sped

classroom was a pretty small element in Jan's developmental environment.

Rick ... dad to 30 year old Jan

[Guest guest]

Same here. A self-contained classroom is by definition without typical

students--only the duly labeled go in there (hence making it to at least a

degree socially isolating).

Judi HL

Re: re: Special Education Classrooms

Self-contained and isolated means to ME that there are no typical kids in

that classroom and it is a separate room, sometimes physically isolated from

the rest of the school sometimes only isolated socially.

Elaine

re: Special Education Classrooms

Let me speak for myself here.

If you can handle some aspect of your child's development at home

(whether that is academics, job skills, or social skills), then that is

often a prime place to do it.

Janet's home rooms were sped classrooms (not isolated or

self-contained). There, she got the academics that have greatly helped

her in her quest for independence. She did nto spend time learning to

go to a grocery store or a movie in school, nor did she have any

significant vocational training (including typing, shop, inclusive home

ec classes, etc) until late middle school and during her four years of

high school.

She learned about stores from being there and taking part. She carried

the money in to pay for the gasoline at the gas stations (was twice

cheated which got an immediate angry bear response to the station

attendants). She learned about working in the day care job I found her

and which had no 'job coach', only a day care woman and program willing

to take Jan is as a worker and give her things to do. I found pay for

the two summers that she did the job full time (7 hours contact time

with five hours paid).

Yes, many sped classrooms teach little academics. That was why we

networked to find the programs and teachers (out of district, but what

would have been in-district for those of you in large districts). We

had full support of the local district and help from the IEP team

whenever whe had to change programs (every three or four years). The

fact that her home room was a sped classroom got great teaching ratios

and the ability to teach Jan as much as she could learn. It was an

environment that was stimulating for Jan and one where the teachers got

significant personal reward for their teaching success.

No, Jan's home rooms were not regular classrooms, although she knew many

kids and it was a delight to see her walk down the hall by herself

exchanging greetings with almost everyone. Much of Jan's social

inclusion came outside of school in the neighborhood.

No it wasn't perfect, but the fact that her home room was a sped

classroom was a pretty small element in Jan's developmental environment.

Rick ... dad to 30 year old Jan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/13/2003 9:13:37 AM Central Standard Time,

hronca@... writes:

> I don't know Kathy, this could really backfire for ...lol...he

> wouldn't have to behave until they had to earn the icecream...he hates

> toppings...LOL! The parties sound like a great idea, very creative.

>

>

ROTFLOL

I think this is what happened on " lotion day " Sara knows she has tons of

smelly lotions at home so this wasn't a big deal for her lol

I looked at Sara's behavior plan and you know the way they break down the

objectives like 3 out of 4 or 80% well heehee this allows for I guess a few

bad days for her ............. like it should be anyone know a typical kid

that behaves 100% of the time lol

Kathy mom to Sara 11

[Guest guest]

> Last week it was an ice-cream social and all >ingredients used

>in the ice-cream sundaes had to be earned daily >Mon-Fri (Monday-strawberries,

>Tuesday- bananas etc... )

I don't know Kathy, this could really backfire for ...lol...he wouldn't

have to behave until they had to earn the icecream...he hates toppings...LOL!

The parties sound like a great idea, very creative.

Mom to (8, DS) and Grace (5)

[Guest guest]

Jasmine is in a self-contained special ed classroom. This is the proper

placement for her, as she can not tolerate full time placement in the reg ed

classroom.

There are 13 students, 1 teacher, and 2 para's.

This is her home room. She is mainstreamed into reg ed 5th grade clasrooms

for music, library, P.E., and lunch. She also has these same classes with

her sp ed class. So she gets two of each every week.

She also goes in to a 2-3rd grade transition reading class to work on phonics

and reading. This is the level she is on.

Their classroom is on the middle school side of the school. Some may say

they are isolated from the rest of the elementary students. This may be so

in some cases. I am not especially happy with this aspect. But in return

for this, they get access to a full kitchen, laundry room, and are next door

to the middle school sp ed classroom, where many of them will be going next

year. This does not mean that they only get " life skills " in this classroom.

They get all the academics they can tolerate, and also get some life skills.

There are also some middle school students that come in to this classroom to

tutor the students, and this also gives them social stimulation.

I do not advocate self-contained classrooms, I do not advocate only reg ed

classrooms anymore. I have found by trial and error that you have to look

at what the child can tolerate and thrive in. It was a dissappointment to

find that Jasmine could not tolerate the reg ed classroom, as this is where I

wanted her to be.

I so want her to be like " everyone else " . But that is for me. That is not

Jasmine. She must be who she is. She is becoming a wonderfully beautiful

young lady. She is who she is and I love her very much.

Thank you for reading this far. I appreciate this list for letting me work

out things in my own mind by writing it down for all to read. This always

helps.

Thank you for giving me great ideas and helping to raise my daughter.

Much luck wished for you in raising yours.

Toni-Mom to Jasmine-11-ds-in TN

[Guest guest]

I sure do agree with advocating for curriculum access. Here in Montgomery

County MD ny son has middle school teachers with the lowest expectations in

the special ed classrooms. One has to really advocate for your child for the

I ~individualized and independent from any preset agenda in the " classrooms "

for special ed.

Ann Dawedeit

[Guest guest]

Well said Toni!! The I in IEP stands for Individualized. That is what is

important. There must be a continuum of placements for every child so that the

individualized education is happening. I am very much pro inclusion because it

works for so very well and because if supported properly it can work for

most children. I don't want to have access to a washer, stove or

anything like that at school. That may sound like I'm putting your choice down

but I'm just stressing what I want for my son. I want him to have ALL the

academics he can possibly have. I see those other things taking away from

academic time. He can learn those at home or like typical kids, he can learn

them when he has to cook for himself and do laundry for himself. YOU as

Jasmine's mom know what is right for her. I just hope that all of us can see

the fact that we must advocate for choices for all our kids.

Elaine

Re: re: Special Education Classrooms

Jasmine is in a self-contained special ed classroom. This is the proper

placement for her, as she can not tolerate full time placement in the reg ed

classroom.

There are 13 students, 1 teacher, and 2 para's.

This is her home room. She is mainstreamed into reg ed 5th grade clasrooms

for music, library, P.E., and lunch. She also has these same classes with her

sp ed class. So she gets two of each every week.

She also goes in to a 2-3rd grade transition reading class to work on phonics

and reading. This is the level she is on.

Their classroom is on the middle school side of the school. Some may say they

are isolated from the rest of the elementary students. This may be so in some

cases. I am not especially happy with this aspect. But in return for this,

they get access to a full kitchen, laundry room, and are next door to the middle

school sp ed classroom, where many of them will be going next year. This does

not mean that they only get " life skills " in this classroom. They get all the

academics they can tolerate, and also get some life skills.

There are also some middle school students that come in to this classroom to

tutor the students, and this also gives them social stimulation.

I do not advocate self-contained classrooms, I do not advocate only reg ed

classrooms anymore. I have found by trial and error that you have to look at

what the child can tolerate and thrive in. It was a dissappointment to find

that Jasmine could not tolerate the reg ed classroom, as this is where I wanted

her to be.

I so want her to be like " everyone else " . But that is for me. That is not

Jasmine. She must be who she is. She is becoming a wonderfully beautiful young

lady. She is who she is and I love her very much.

Thank you for reading this far. I appreciate this list for letting me work

out things in my own mind by writing it down for all to read. This always

helps.

Thank you for giving me great ideas and helping to raise my daughter.

Much luck wished for you in raising yours.

Toni-Mom to Jasmine-11-ds-in TN