Polite disagreement

February 27, 2003

In a message dated 2/27/2003 11:36:43 AM Central Standard Time,

web4mom@... writes:

> It

> just seems to me that there is a lot more generalizing about teachers and

> school personnel when we vent than when we have a complaint about one doctor

> or professional in some other area other that is not education.

>

HI

We can change Drs. who see our kids but we cant change teachers who work with

our kids ........... maybe this is why little venting occurs with the medical

profession.

Also Ive never viewed the word " they " in posts as " all teachers, " " all

administrators " ....... Ive only viewed the " they " as the personal who works

with the individual writer/poster.

I'll be the first to apologize if I have offend anyone using the word " they "

or in venting about anything in Sara's or my life. Usually when I vent I get

some pretty good suggestions on how to deal with the particular situation. I

would hate it if I couldn't use you all for resources I know Ive been sick

all week but I must have missed the posts that have bothered some, or maybe

Ive been insensitive to them ..... who knows

I threw this current conflict across to my teacher sister and she was a bit

surprised .................. she said " there is good and bad in all

professions, don't they know that " love baby sisters

Kathy mom to Sara 11 ............. heehee Ive never let the housewife jokes

bother me lololol and I totally enjoy my profession

February 27, 2003

Even though I am a teacher/librarian (All school librarians should be

teachers--if not, what are they doing in a school?), I have still had to do

my share of venting on this list about school situations my son has

encountered. No school is perfect, and no one individual is without

weaknesses, either.

For those of us who have monitored the list for a long time, it's pretty

easy to predict what kinds of issues will push various individuals' buttons.

I will admit to having my own button, and I exercised a lot of

self-restraint during last week's discussions.

I do implore my fellow list members to please be careful of the word

" they " when just referring to one individual teacher or administrator. It

just seems to me that there is a lot more generalizing about teachers and

school personnel when we vent than when we have a complaint about one doctor

or professional in some other area other that is not education.

We all need to vent to someone sometime. But I don't think some of us,

maybe even me, realize how we are coming across.

Kingsley's advice is so wise. Whether or not a teacher is doing her

job as well as you would like, it certainly puts her in a more receptive

frame of mind if you acknowledge that it's not an easy job and that she has

done something " right " .

Now...wish me luck. Danny's IEP is coming up, and I just found out

yesterday that he will probably be going on to middle school. I'm feeling a

lot more alone facing this prospect than I have in past years. The SpEd

administrator and long-time acquaintance who watched over Danny's first

several years in school has moved on to another job. Dannhy's teacher, who I

know would have searched out the best placement for him, has just

died--we're going to the funeral in two hours. (Yes, I plan to take Danny.)

In other words, the only major " advantage " I have over a many parents as I

go into this IEP is an ability to empathize with what their jobs entail.

Bev

February 27, 2003

I personally think medical care is my favorite thing to vent about on DS

lists. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have felt frustrated at

the medical community since Blake was born. My old doctor was horrible

about investigating serious health problems. He caught things like ear

infections, but had to be persuaded to follow up on things like a heart

murmur. I censor myself when it comes to complaining about

therapists....because who knows one of them might be a lurker on these

lists! And Blake's therapists are very good for the most part.

Schulte

> It just seems to me that there is a lot more generalizing about teachers

and

> school personnel when we vent than when we have a complaint about one

doctor

> or professional in some other area other that is not education.

> We all need to vent to someone sometime. But I don't think some of us,

> maybe even me, realize how we are coming across.

February 27, 2003

Hi

I have many teacher friends, most I met by keeping their children (love

teacher hours lol) anyway they all filled me in on the doe's and don'ts BUT I

had to keep mum on who gave me my info. One teacher gave me her curriculum

book for the County and Sara's administrators freaked out when I had it. I

never told them who I got it from.

I think one of the best resources Ive ever had was a Private School EI

teacher. I baby-sat her child for years and she was Sara's greatest advocate

and a sound board for me. I don't see her much anymore but I know I can call

her at anytime for help.

You know sometimes I assume everyone knows their rights here, why I don't ask

most of the time. The parents of kids with LD labels are the ones in the dark

on the law here, and how an IEP is supposed to be written

Kathy mom to Sara 11 ............... maybe your friend thought you already

knew

February 27, 2003

Yes, Yes, and YES!!! While I don't condone going into a IEP meeting all worked

up (because I've been there before and it ain't fun), IT NEVER hurts to have

others hear about the hell we have gone thru in that regard. I didn't ever

think I would be on THAT side of the table especially since Jordan's preschool

teacher was so incredibly wonderful, but wow!!! What a shocker I got when she

hit Kindergarten. I was never told about laws or a CFR or the PACode or any

rights Jordan had. This " wonderful " preschool teacher, with two special needs

kids herself (both adopted), never warned me or educated me about what I was in

for and we were good friends. Just earlier in the school year, she personally

moved from her school district into another one because she " wanted better for

her boys. " I would have thought she would have been the one person, whom I was

good friends with, who would have at least " warned " me about what I was in for.

She even sat there at the transition meeting when the Dir. of SpEd was talking

about a lifeskills class for placement and she said nothing about Jordan's LRE

as far as placement in a reg K class first.

Looking back and realizing it now, she should have been the first person to

advocate for Jordan because she was a friend as well as Jordan's teacher and the

mother of two special kids herself. With that last one alone, she should have

had enough compassion to at least take the time to point me in the direction of

an advocate or give me some legal material to read. Heck... I would have

appreciated a heads up even, especially since she has had problems with that

Sped Dir in the past.

********A note to my mother who I know is going to read this: NO **she** does

NOT know how I feel about this so please don't say anything. Thanks :-)

Judi - Sometimes you're Educational " friends " aren't who you think they are.

Re: Polite Disagreement

My son with DS is not of age that he needs to deal with the school system

yet. But I enjoy hearing all experiences, good or bad, so that I know what

to expect. I don't think hearing about the bad experiences with promote an

adversarial feeling between myself and the school system. But I do think it

will help me understand my rights.

Schulte

February 27, 2003

>This " wonderful " preschool teacher, with two special needs kids herself (both

adopted), never warned me or educated me about what I was in for and we were

good friends.<

Well, I think having your child in a friends classroom could hurt your

relationship. There is a fine line between friendship and professionalism. I

have clients who refer to me as friend, but honestly they are my clients. Sure,

there are some I really have enjoyed being a part of their lives - but I

maintain my boundries.

And your friend had previous problems with the spec director - that could

account for her reservations about directing you to what you wanted and didn't

know about. She may not have wanted to jeapardize her job.

Still, doesn't the Parent Resource Center at your school system send out flyers

and have resources available? To me, that is the method our schools use to

direct people to IDEA, state regs, educational tools,conferences, etc., along

with parents rights (or whatever they call it) that is handed out prior or at

the IEP? I get a flyer about once every other month. I'd call the Parent

Resource Center and find out what they have.

February 27, 2003

Okay- I've been lurking- I'll admit it- I just had to add something-

since my daughter with ds is only 17 months old I haven't had the

joys of dealing with the schools very much yet but I do want all of

you who are already dealing with it to know this.... When my cousin

was born (many years ago) he had a lot of problems and his family

was told to put him in an institution- so they did because that was

what people did in those days and there he sits still... so

whenever I'm out somewhere and I see someone with an older child

(child not in age but in relation to them) I say a pray of thanks

for them that somewhere down the line people found the courage to

stand up and say no to putting their child in an institution -

because because of them it was something I didn't even have to

consider when my daughter was born. Now, there's still a long ways

to go because the drs did try repeatedly to talk me into having an

amnio so I could abort- but progress happens. Whether you're having

good experiences or bad experiences with the schools you are all

paving the way for the rest of us coming along behind and hopefully,

because of something you go through- one thing at a time will change

for our kids until everyone can see how great they are..... Just a

thought that I had to come out of hiding to add. Lol-

February 27, 2003

It's great that some people babysit for teacher's kids, are friends with

teachers, etc. But not everyone has connections to their schools other than

their children.

This list is a very effective resource for learning what to do in difficult

school situations...which like it or not some people have. We are not born

knowing what our children's rights are regarding Special Education. That is

something that you have to LEARN. I'd like to learn it before my son gets

there.

I've never thought of myself as a feminist, but perhaps I am, because I do

not intend to bake cookies for IEP meetings either. (Don't get me wrong, I

am sure this works. I simply won't do it.) My son's teachers will follow

the law and educate him equally with his peers because it's their job and he

has rights.

Schulte - Sister to an elementary school teacher

February 27, 2003

Great point . Wouldn't it be great if there were no need to " fight "

for our children's rights at all. Progress doesn't come easily. Thank god

for the people who fought for IDEA.

Schulte

>> Whether you're having

> > good experiences or bad experiences with the schools you are all

> > paving the way for the rest of us coming along behind and hopefully,

> > because of something you go through- one thing at a time will change

> > for our kids until everyone can see how great they are..... Just a

> > thought that I had to come out of hiding to add. Lol-

>

March 1, 2003

Wow, Cheryl!

What great images and totally how I feel at times.

mom to Bridget 9 ds

Re: Polite disagreement

This thread makes me want to share something funny from a workshop I went to.

Our speaker was a parent of a child with a cognitivie disability as well as

a social worker. She was there in her professional capacity but many times

spoke as the mom ... I loved her, some of the professionals there did not.

(Educational specialists, medical specialists, social workers, etc.)

One of the things she did during her presentation was utilize two film clips.

After watching the clips, our tables were to discuss what it was she was

showing us, what message we were to understand from the clip. I knew no one

at my table of ten before this started, they were a mix of professionals.

The first clip was from Sister Act, Whoppie Goldbert and the Mother Superior

are walking down the hall about to introduce Whoppie to the other nuns. SHe

is getting a very fast nun primer on the way. The door opens to the dining

room and there is a giant, long table full of nuns in their habits, as was

Whoppie and Mother Superior. They all stare at her, she takes her place,

they stare at her and then one of them says (more or less) " welcome, we would

like to you say the blessing. " Whoppie, in shock, begins ranting bits and

pieces of all kinds of things, very confusing and unusual phrases woven

together. Film clip over.

I tell my table mates " that's an IEP meeting. " They are in SHOCK .... ok,

total shock! " Why would you ever think THAT could be an IEP meeting? " ;-)

You guys all know why ... yes? All dressed the same, all united front, not

really welcoming (only one member of the group) Whoppie trying to fit in,

trying to use the jargon, not sure of herself, intimadated ... etc. So my

table will not say IEP meeting.

Guess what ... it was an IEP meeting! ;-) My table just buzzing with

surprise!

Later in the talk, second film clip. From the movie " Terms of Endearment. "

Mom has run out to nurses station trying to find a nurse to give her daughter

the pain medication she needs because her daughter was forced to wait until a

certain hour for pain medication despite the terrible pain she was in. Now

the nurses are really ignoring mom as she frantically tries to find someone

to give her daughter relief.

Finally mom straightens up at the nurses' station and SCREAMS " SOMEONE GIVE

MY DAUGHTER HER MEDICATION NOW!!!!!! "

I look at my table mates and say, " Ladies, this is also an IEP meeting! "

Once again we have a debate but they give in. Guess what ... it was an IEP

meeting! ;-)

I told them (and so did the speaker) you just saw the frustration level some

parents are driven to trying to get the school to provide the services their

child needs!

Really, the film clips were a great way to drive the messages home about how

teams interact and how parents can feel at some meetings!

Some of the professionals afterwards told me they felt so bad, to think they

may have contributed to parents feeling that way.

Cheryl in VA

March 3, 2003

I think " they " refers to the rest of the IEP team. It can be set up as a " they "

versus the parents situation. That's why it's not " individualized. " )

Elaine