Re: IQ testing: for services : please help: my 6 year old neice: ...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/5/03 8:56:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,

mikeandstef0311@... writes:

> Hi friends:

>

> My neice age 6 ds, has been fully included since she was

> little...........she was in a regular kindegarten last year and repeated it

>

> again this year with an aide............She is doing wonderfully.

>

> Well her school system is wanting to have a meeting this Friday regarding

> next year 1st grade, her principal has already said that she wants

>

> to be fully included in a first grade class, but they brought up the

> question

> of IQ testing to get more services..............

>

> 's label is " speech delayed " and with that label the school folks

> made it sound like with just that label that she won't be able to get

> services that she might need..............

>

> I know that some of you have been through this and I wanted to get your

> opinion on getting IQ testing for more services?

>

> Is it necessary?

>

it depends on what kind of services they are thinking of. We got railroaded

on this years ago ourselves.

The schools really like getting the Mental Retardation label on our kids,

because it takes the lid off the box for what services they can then get.

They can qualify for OT, resource help with academic skills, etc, all under

MR.

The other way to get OT services is to qualify under an " Orthopedic

Impairment " -- typically that means first the doctor diagnoses an orthopedic

impairment NOT related to mental ability (laxity, for example) and then the

school qulifies that this impairment effects the ability to learn (problems

sitting up so writing, awkwardness on the playgorund, etc).

The way non-DS kids usually get resource (academic) services is by qualifying

under " Specific Learning Disability " ... and to to that the school tests both

IQ and achievement and documents that the IQ of the child is significantly

above the actual acheivement of the child.

Here's the down side on IQ tests... very few are structured in a way that

does our kids justice in terms of measuring their real strengths. The

results can be very depressing - esp when you know they aren't really an

accurate measure of the child's innate intelligence. But low results WILL

help the school give your child all kinds of supports she can't qualify for

under straight Speech-and-language.

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/5/2003 9:30:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

momtothree@... writes:

> From what I was told, IQ scores cannot determine placement.

> At least

> not here in Texas.

While that may be the party line, if you were to get in a battle over placement,

chances are that IQ score would become ammunition for them to choose a more

restrictive placement, trust me!

Here in VA, where students with MR are placed in one of two categories, IQ

scores are usually the determining factor in which category they go to. Anyone

with an IQ in the moderate MR range is usually placed in the Trainable Mentally

Retarded category. In those classes the curriculum is usually totally self help

and community trips to WalMart, no academics at all.

Some parents will allow IQ testing, but only allow the sub test scores to be

utilized, not cummlatively totalled into an IQ score that can be recorded in the

child's record.

The questions you need to ask are these: if I stipulate that my child has a

cognitive deficeit, if I even agree my child fits the criteria for MR, then what

purpose would an IQ score serve?

Will it aid the teacher in determining education strategies to use? How? What

instructional strategies are based on IQ scores?

Make them tell you the purpose and how they would use the score to benefit your

child .... and how will IQ scores improve your child's education.

Cheryl in VA

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody:

thanks so much for everybody's advice...........it was greatly appreciated.

The meeting is tomorrow regarding the IQ testing..........

I found out from my sister today that earlier this month the reason that they

want to have this meeting is b/c they are saying you can't have academic

goals without IQ testing????

Is this correct?

Why were we able to have goals for this year without the IQ testing? weren't

the goals we had academic or is this something different?

If so why can't you have academic goals without IQ testing?

What are some tests that if we agree on can't hurt her and which tests could

hurt her in the long run?

Like I mentioned she has the label " speech delayed " she is already getting

speech, ot and pt.................what other services are there to offer?

If you have any direct questions you think I should ask them tomorrow at this

meeting please please let me know?

I don't want these people trying to pull something over our eyes and it

jeopardize s inclusion............UGGHHH.........I hate all of

this..........

I just want to make sure whatever I say I can back it up with proof

.............that they're wrong suggesting this or that.................

Thanks so much for your help,

Stefanie (aunt-godmother to age 6 ds)

Texas

[Guest guest]

That is so true!! I have had this fight in every state in which we've lived.

This year I lost the fight with the school system because I couldn't afford an

attorney. I gave them the very devil at the IEP meeting though and told them

that I wanted academic goals and I expected to see classwork reflecting that.

I'm still not seeing enough reading. I am going to fight for a more inclusive

placement at next month's IEP. Now that Georgia is investigating the reason for

noninclusive placements more thorougly, I should have very little problem. (I

hope)

Elaine

Re: IQ testing: for services : please help: my 6 year old

neice: ...

In a message dated 2/5/2003 9:30:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

momtothree@... writes:

> From what I was told, IQ scores cannot determine placement.

> At least

> not here in Texas.

While that may be the party line, if you were to get in a battle over

placement, chances are that IQ score would become ammunition for them to choose

a more restrictive placement, trust me!

Here in VA, where students with MR are placed in one of two categories, IQ

scores are usually the determining factor in which category they go to. Anyone

with an IQ in the moderate MR range is usually placed in the Trainable Mentally

Retarded category. In those classes the curriculum is usually totally self help

and community trips to WalMart, no academics at all.

Some parents will allow IQ testing, but only allow the sub test scores to be

utilized, not cummlatively totalled into an IQ score that can be recorded in the

child's record.

The questions you need to ask are these: if I stipulate that my child has a

cognitive deficeit, if I even agree my child fits the criteria for MR, then what

purpose would an IQ score serve?

Will it aid the teacher in determining education strategies to use? How? What

instructional strategies are based on IQ scores?

Make them tell you the purpose and how they would use the score to benefit

your child .... and how will IQ scores improve your child's education.

Cheryl in VA

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/6/2003 6:47:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, MikeandStef0311

writes:

>

> Hi everybody:

>

> thanks so much for everybody's advice...........it was greatly appreciated.

>

> The meeting is tomorrow regarding the IQ testing..........

>

> I found out from my sister today that earlier this month the reason that

> they want to have this meeting is b/c they are saying you can't have

> academic goals without IQ testing????

>

> Is this correct?

NO - kids without IEPs get academic goals, correct? It's called the

" curriculum. " What the school is trying to figure out is how to provide a

modified curriculum, which they can do based on ACHIEVEMENTS... they don't

need IQ to figure it out. But they may be obligated to keep pushing to meet

the state standards unless they have an IQ that proves your child can't be

expected to meet the state standards.

The trick is whenever you are told something like this (ie " you can't have

academic goals without an IQ test " ) ask to see a copy of the law in writing!

Until they can give you a copy, don't agree to the test! Often this sort of

thing has become an internal practice, but nobody knows why and everybody has

come to assume it's " the law " when it is not.

>

> Why were we able to have goals for this year without the IQ testing?

> weren't the goals we had academic or is this something different?

>

> If so why can't you have academic goals without IQ testing?

>

> What are some tests that if we agree on can't hurt her and which tests

> could hurt her in the long run?

>

> Like I mentioned she has the label " speech delayed " she is already getting

> speech, ot and pt.................what other services are there to offer?

>

> If you have any direct questions you think I should ask them tomorrow at

> this meeting please please let me know?

>

> I don't want these people trying to pull something over our eyes and it

> jeopardize s inclusion............UGGHHH.........I hate all of

> this..........

Technically IQ should not hurt inclusion but I have had it backfire because

some people have certain prejudices ( ie preconceived notions) about what

mental retardation means. Once the label is on, some people just cant't see

past it.

If they still push really hard for an IQ test, tell them you need to have in

writing what specific tests they want to use and why those tests are VALID

for your child. Then tell them you need a couple of weeks to research and

consult with specialists in the field before you decide whether to give your

consent or not. DON'T sign ANYTHING at the IEP meeting except the attendence

sheet. Take the paperwork home, talk it over with other parents, friends,

relatives, and see if it all makes sense objectively.

- Becky

>

> I just want to make sure whatever I say I can back it up with proof

> ............that they're wrong suggesting this or that.................

>

> Thanks so much for your help,

> Stefanie (aunt-godmother to age 6 ds)

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/2003 12:20:58 AM Central Standard Time, RSYOSH@...

writes:

> Technically IQ should not hurt inclusion but I have had it backfire because

> some people have certain prejudices ( ie preconceived notions) about what

> mental retardation means. Once the label is on, some people just cant't

> see

> past it.

>

>

> If they still push really hard for an IQ test, tell them you need to have

> in

> writing what specific tests they want to use and why those tests are VALID

> for your child. Then tell them you need a couple of weeks to research and

> consult with specialists in the field before you decide whether to give

> your

> consent or not. DON'T sign ANYTHING at the IEP meeting except the

> attendence

> sheet. Take the paperwork home, talk it over with other parents, friends,

> relatives, and see if it all makes sense objectively.

HI

Great advice, and what I tell parents here.

Let me share, my sister is a middle school teacher in Nashville and she told

me years ago to NEVER allow IQ scores to enter the school building. Sara's

files are kept in 2 locations, BOE and school. The school file holds no IQ

scores (from the past) only the summary of the test, strengths and

weaknesses. My sister told me YES teachers freak when they look at IQ scores,

basically they start to feel inadequate about their teaching abilities. So if

you are stuck at least demand that they leave the score page out of the

school ...... teachers could go to the BOE to see it but the likely is they

wont heehee

Now if you have to have an IQ test do your homework. If your child has a

speech delay then by all means insist on a test that meets this need. I

scream VALIDITY over and over. NO way NO how will they test Sara with an exam

that's designed for kids with NO language impairment. Check out the Leiter or

TONI tests designed for kids with low language.

Another thing, assessments are for determining if a child qualifies for sped

services, so far our team does not think Sara has been cured of her DS or MR

heehee so no need to retest I am fixing to compile a list of assessments

that would be appropriate and send it in to the school .... like phonemic

awareness, auditory processing etc.... tests that would help her education

now I need to research which test (name) to use

Kathy mom to Sara 11 ............ also like another person said always ask to

see any law or policy in writing ......... team members do lie heehee

[Guest guest]

thanks everybody for the advice, I've printed out all your questions and

advice and here i go.............please pray for us..................

I'm ready for them.............

Stefanie (aunt-godmother to age 6 ds)

TEXAS

[Guest guest]

That is utter and unmitigated bull manure!!! They most assuredly can write

goals. They can't agree that has developmental delays?? They can't

use other tests? They do this so that they can use IQ to back up their

placement decisions which tend to be noninclusive.

Elaine

Re: IQ testing: for services : please help: my 6 year old

neice: ...

Hi everybody:

thanks so much for everybody's advice...........it was greatly appreciated.

The meeting is tomorrow regarding the IQ testing..........

I found out from my sister today that earlier this month the reason that they

want to have this meeting is b/c they are saying you can't have academic

goals without IQ testing????

Is this correct?

Why were we able to have goals for this year without the IQ testing? weren't

the goals we had academic or is this something different?

If so why can't you have academic goals without IQ testing?

What are some tests that if we agree on can't hurt her and which tests could

hurt her in the long run?

Like I mentioned she has the label " speech delayed " she is already getting

speech, ot and pt.................what other services are there to offer?

If you have any direct questions you think I should ask them tomorrow at this

meeting please please let me know?

I don't want these people trying to pull something over our eyes and it

jeopardize s inclusion............UGGHHH.........I hate all of

this..........

I just want to make sure whatever I say I can back it up with proof

............that they're wrong suggesting this or that.................

Thanks so much for your help,

Stefanie (aunt-godmother to age 6 ds)

Texas