delete it or not to delete it ---

[Guest guest]

,

I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the

delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I

don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even

though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I

have found the delete key on my computer

Thanks

Steve Kinne

[Guest guest]

I myself agree. SOmetimes the chat groups also serve social functions for myself. Being the sole breadwinner in my family, giong to school fulltime, etc etc etc I often cannot get out and socialize, shoot hoops with the guys etc and this serves a social function too. I am often surprised that any post with any vaguely religious connotation is often attacked while we see equally ubiquitous off topic threads on golf, Francis Keye, home schooling, and Spiderman dancing at a gay bar - all of which I was glad to receive. My post on playboy was not primarily religious - but pointed at the fact that sexual behavior is as high a priority as a preventable cause of death as firearms - and health care providers we ought to be concerned with the topic of sexual behaviors. From the frequency of posts tht are considered to be "on topic" we must assume this is a health provider board and not strictly a chiropractic board. Why would I say that? Just yesterday there were numerous posts about medications/drugs , which has nothing to do with chiropractic. Chiropractic is a drugless healing art, and chiropractors have no training in drugs. Drugs are technically off topic for chiropractors, but yesterday actually comprised a MUCH higher percentage of posts then posts about the non-surgical, drug free treatment of back pain. So if drugs are on topic here, secual behavior as it relates to morbidity and mortality (as my post did) is at least as equally on topic.

Anglen (who the heck is DrB anyway?)

In a message dated 10/9/02 11:22:09 AM Central Daylight Time, dcfs@... writes:

,

I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the

delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I

don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even

though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I

have found the delete key on my computer

Thanks

Steve Kinne

[Guest guest]

Dr. B could be any one of the docs with last names ending in B (Beeson, Bonofiglio Etc).

This was ibelieve from Dr Beebe

Carl Bonofiglio ( the other Dr. B.)

-- Re: delete it or not to delete it ---

I myself agree. SOmetimes the chat groups also serve social functions for myself. Being the sole breadwinner in my family, giong to school fulltime, etc etc etc I often cannot get out and socialize, shoot hoops with the guys etc and this serves a social function too. I am often surprised that any post with any vaguely religious connotation is often attacked while we see equally ubiquitous off topic threads on golf, Francis Keye, home schooling, and Spiderman dancing at a gay bar - all of which I was glad to receive. My post on playboy was not primarily religious - but pointed at the fact that sexual behavior is as high a priority as a preventable cause of death as firearms - and health care providers we ought to be concerned with the topic of sexual behaviors. From the frequency of posts tht are considered to be "on topic" we must assume this is a health provider board and not strictly a chiropractic board. Why would I say that? Just yesterday there were numerous posts about medications/drugs , which has nothing to do with chiropractic. Chiropractic is a drugless healing art, and chiropractors have no training in drugs. Drugs are technically off topic for chiropractors, but yesterday actually comprised a MUCH higher percentage of posts then posts about the non-surgical, drug free treatment of back pain. So if drugs are on topic here, secual behavior as it relates to morbidity and mortality (as my post did) is at least as equally on topic. Anglen (who the heck is DrB anyway?) In a message dated 10/9/02 11:22:09 AM Central Daylight Time, dcfs@... writes:

, I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I have found the delete key on my computer Thanks Steve Kinne OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

,

Get over it! The comments by DrB and myself were not a personal attack, rather a request that the overall topics be more germane to the practice of chiropractic and the health care treatment of patients. Although there is certainly great deal of social comradery with in this e-group, I interpreted this to be a professional venue. There are an abundance of other social outlets on the web to discus religious, moral and social values. Also, personally, I didn't respond to an earlier response because it was difficult to decipher. I am a terrible typist and find grammar painfully difficult, but please use your grammar and spell check.

Respectfully,

Ted

Ted Forcum, DC, DACBSP, FICC, CSCSBack In Motion Sports Injuries Clinic, LLC11385 SW Scholls Ferry RoadBeaverton, Oregon 97008ph 503.524.9040

On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:10:01 EDT ang320@... writes:

I myself agree. SOmetimes the chat groups also serve social functions for myself. Being the sole breadwinner in my family, giong to school fulltime, etc etc etc I often cannot get out and socialize, shoot hoops with the guys etc and this serves a social function too. I am often surprised that any post with any vaguely religious connotation is often attacked while we see equally ubiquitous off topic threads on golf, Francis Keye, home schooling, and Spiderman dancing at a gay bar - all of which I was glad to receive. My post on playboy was not primarily religious - but pointed at the fact that sexual behavior is as high a priority as a preventable cause of death as firearms - and health care providers we ought to be concerned with the topic of sexual behaviors. From the frequency of posts tht are considered to be "on topic" we must assume this is a health provider board and not strictly a chiropractic board. Why would I say that? Just yesterday there were numerous posts about medications/drugs , which has nothing to do with chiropractic. Chiropractic is a drugless healing art, and chiropractors have no training in drugs. Drugs are technically off topic for chiropractors, but yesterday actually comprised a MUCH higher percentage of posts then posts about the non-surgical, drug free treatment of back pain. So if drugs are on topic here, secual behavior as it relates to morbidity and mortality (as my post did) is at least as equally on topic. Anglen (who the heck is DrB anyway?) In a message dated 10/9/02 11:22:09 AM Central Daylight Time, dcfs@... writes:

, I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I have found the delete key on my computer Thanks Steve Kinne OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

:

Drugs have nothing to do with chiropractic? Just because we do not prescribe doesn't mean we shouldn't know what a person is taking or being treated with besides chiropractic! And in this state we do have a legal right and responsibility with regards to OTC drugs. What makes me mad is direct-to-consumer marketing advocating the use of expensive medications for symptoms which may have a root cause which has nothing to do with "imbalance of chemicals in your body...ask your doctor". We are Doctors and we can counsel in general terms without make recommendations for pharmaceutical use or discontinuation. And it helps if we can communcicate with our medical peers as well!

Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians

730-D SE Oak St

Hillsboro, OR 97123

(503)640-3724

>From: ang320@... > >Subject: Re: delete it or not to delete it --- >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:10:01 EDT > >I myself agree. SOmetimes the chat groups also serve social functions for >myself. Being the sole breadwinner in my family, giong to school fulltime, >etc etc etc I often cannot get out and socialize, shoot hoops with the guys >etc and this serves a social function too. I am often surprised that any >post with any vaguely religious connotation is often attacked while we see >equally ubiquitous off topic threads on golf, Francis Keye, home >schooling, and Spiderman dancing at a gay bar - all of which I was glad to >receive. My post on playboy was not primarily religious - but pointed at the >fact that sexual behavior is as high a priority as a preventable cause of >death as firearms - and health care providers we ought to be concerned with >the topic of sexual behaviors. From the frequency of posts tht are >considered to be "on topic" we must assume this is a health provider board >and not strictly a chiropractic board. Why would I say that? Just yesterday >there were numerous posts about medications/drugs , which has nothing to do >with chiropractic. Chiropractic is a drugless healing art, and chiropractors >have no training in drugs. Drugs are technically off topic for chiropractors, >but yesterday actually comprised a MUCH higher percentage of posts then posts >about the non-surgical, drug free treatment of back pain. So if drugs are on >topic here, secual behavior as it relates to morbidity and mortality (as my >post did) is at least as equally on topic. > > Anglen (who the heck is DrB anyway?) > >In a message dated 10/9/02 11:22:09 AM Central Daylight Time, >dcfs@... writes: > > > > , > > > > I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the > > delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I > > don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even > > though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I > > have found the delete key on my computer > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve Kinne > > > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here

[Guest guest]

Again looking at the top 9 preventable causes of death, illicit drugs rank 9th with 20,000 deaths attributed each year. So with "sexual behavior" ranked as the 7th preventable cause of death with 35,000 deaths per year - my post regarding sex and Playboy still remains more relevant to healthcare than any discussion here about illicit drugs.

Regarding pushers - would you rather have a MD schooled in medications/drugs (terminology variable depending on your viewpoint) or some street punk pushing drugs?

Anglen

In a message dated 10/10/02 12:04:55 PM Central Daylight Time, SharronF@... writes:

'Drugs are everywhere and the biggest drug pushers are MD's.'

[Guest guest]

: Good post. I would state it more strongly. Drugs have everything to do with our practices. Very few patients are NOT taking at least one regular medication. In fact, I frequently have to ask several times over more than one visit about medications. People don't even classify over the counter medications as drugs, so they don't list them or bother to mention that they live on...advil, sudafed... If we recommend something nutritionall, we had better know what else is going in the system. How about the people who come in for a treatment shortly after taking 2 vicodin or a handful of muscle relaxants. Or the lady who shoots up cocaine in the morning before her appointments and doesn't tell her medical doctor about it, but allows him to give her prescriptions for neurontin, paxol and another antidepressant. On that combo she had slurred speech, was incoherent and braely functional. I guess that's how druggies like it. Drugs are everywhere and the biggest drug pushers are MD's.

Ann Goldeen

Astoria

Re: delete it or not to delete it --- >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:10:01 EDT > >I myself agree. SOmetimes the chat groups also serve social functions for >myself. Being the sole breadwinner in my family, giong to school fulltime, >etc etc etc I often cannot get out and socialize, shoot hoops with the guys >etc and this serves a social function too. I am often surprised that any >post with any vaguely religious connotation is often attacked while we see >equally ubiquitous off topic threads on golf, Francis Keye, home >schooling, and Spiderman dancing at a gay bar - all of which I was glad to >receive. My post on playboy was not primarily religious - but pointed at the >fact that sexual behavior is as high a priority as a preventable cause of >death as firearms - and health care providers we ought to be concerned with >the topic of sexual behaviors. From the frequency of posts tht are >considered to be "on topic" we must assume this is a health provider board >and not strictly a chiropractic board. Why would I say that? Just yesterday >there were numerous posts about medications/drugs , which has nothing to do >with chiropractic. Chiropractic is a drugless healing art, and chiropractors >have no training in drugs. Drugs are technically off topic for chiropractors, >but yesterday actually comprised a MUCH higher percentage of posts then posts >about the non-surgical, drug free treatment of back pain. So if drugs are on >topic here, secual behavior as it relates to morbidity and mortality (as my >post did) is at least as equally on topic. > > Anglen (who the heck is DrB anyway?) > >In a message dated 10/9/02 11:22:09 AM Central Daylight Time, >dcfs@... writes: > > > > , > > > > I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the > > delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I > > don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even > > though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I > > have found the delete key on my computer > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve Kinne > > > >

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

- When I read the post to which you responded, the same thoughts came to my mind. This also ties into an earlier topic that was brought up by Steve Lumsen regarding a paper put out by Dr. Winterstein regarding professionalism. "Continuous study" was one of the points in the paper Dr. Winterstein quoted from Ralph . Our patients seek our knowledge as physicians, not as technicians and as such we should have at least a working knowledge of the medications our patients are taking. We should have a far greater knowledge of the over-the-counter medications we advise. I use ePocratese in the room on a Palm which gives me far greater information regarding the possible adverse effects of the medication as well as suggestions on dosing as well as indications. Several times I have noted musculoskeletal complaints that were related to the medication the patient was taking rather than a mechanical or musculoskeletal problem. This is our responsibility to our patient's health and we should not shirk it!

I also noted that discussion of this rather important topic from Dr. Winterstein was minimal and quickly vectored into a direction that did not address the paper as a whole. I for one would certainly entertain further discussion on this topic of "professionalism".

P. Thille, D.C., FACOChiropractic Associates, PCRedmond, OR541-548-4014

Re: delete it or not to delete it --- >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:10:01 EDT > >I myself agree. SOmetimes the chat groups also serve social functions for >myself. Being the sole breadwinner in my family, giong to school fulltime, >etc etc etc I often cannot get out and socialize, shoot hoops with the guys >etc and this serves a social function too. I am often surprised that any >post with any vaguely religious connotation is often attacked while we see >equally ubiquitous off topic threads on golf, Francis Keye, home >schooling, and Spiderman dancing at a gay bar - all of which I was glad to >receive. My post on playboy was not primarily religious - but pointed at the >fact that sexual behavior is as high a priority as a preventable cause of >death as firearms - and health care providers we ought to be concerned with >the topic of sexual behaviors. From the frequency of posts tht are >considered to be "on topic" we must assume this is a health provider board >and not strictly a chiropractic board. Why would I say that? Just yesterday >there were numerous posts about medications/drugs , which has nothing to do >with chiropractic. Chiropractic is a drugless healing art, and chiropractors >have no training in drugs. Drugs are technically off topic for chiropractors, >but yesterday actually comprised a MUCH higher percentage of posts then posts >about the non-surgical, drug free treatment of back pain. So if drugs are on >topic here, secual behavior as it relates to morbidity and mortality (as my >post did) is at least as equally on topic. > > Anglen (who the heck is DrB anyway?) > >In a message dated 10/9/02 11:22:09 AM Central Daylight Time, >dcfs@... writes: > > > > , > > > > I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the > > delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I > > don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even > > though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I > > have found the delete key on my computer > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve Kinne > > > >

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Ann-

Your right, the MD's are the pushers, but like the "war on drugs", taking the pusher off the corner or even trying to take out the "cartels" (drug companies) won't help the underlying problem.... Many people like taking drugs, pharmaceutical or otherwise! And if you take out one supplier or pusher there are many more companies and doctors eager to make the $$$$$. Which is not to say ALL drugs are bad, but mis-use and abuse are. And in my mind the "Cartels" are building demand for drugs through misleading advertising. So, now more than ever we need to keep alert to the signs of drug use by our patients, legal or otherwise.

Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians

730-D SE Oak St

Hillsboro, OR 97123

(503)640-3724

>From: "Ann"

>, "BRIAN SEITZ"

>Subject: Re: delete it or not to delete it ---

>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:58:49 -0700

>

>: Good post. I would state it more strongly. Drugs have everything to do with our practices. Very few patients are NOT taking at least one regular medication. In fact, I frequently have to ask several times over more than one visit about medications. People don't even classify over the counter medications as drugs, so they don't list them or bother to mention that they live on...advil, sudafed... If we recommend something nutritionall, we had better know what else is going in the system. How about the people who come in for a treatment shortly after taking 2 vicodin or a handful of muscle relaxants. Or the lady who shoots up cocaine in the morning before her appointments and doesn't tell her medical doctor about it, but allows him to give her prescriptions for neurontin, paxol and another antidepressant. On that combo she had slurred speech, was incoherent and braely functional. I guess that's how druggies like it. Drugs are everywhere and the biggest drug pushers are MD's.

>

>Ann Goldeen

>Astoria

> Re: delete it or not to delete it ---

> >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:10:01 EDT

> >

> >I myself agree. SOmetimes the chat groups also serve social functions for

> >myself. Being the sole breadwinner in my family, giong to school fulltime,

> >etc etc etc I often cannot get out and socialize, shoot hoops with the guys

> >etc and this serves a social function too. I am often surprised that any

> >post with any vaguely religious connotation is often attacked while we see

> >equally ubiquitous off topic threads on golf, Francis Keye, home

> >schooling, and Spiderman dancing at a gay bar - all of which I was glad to

> >receive. My post on playboy was not primarily religious - but pointed at the

> >fact that sexual behavior is as high a priority as a preventable cause of

> >death as firearms - and health care providers we ought to be concerned with

> >the topic of sexual behaviors. From the frequency of posts tht are

> >considered to be "on topic" we must assume this is a health provider board

> >and not strictly a chiropractic board. Why would I say that? Just yesterday

> >there were numerous posts about medications/drugs , which has nothing to do

> >with chiropractic. Chiropractic is a drugless healing art, and chiropractors

> >have no training in drugs. Drugs are technically off topic for chiropractors,

> >but yesterday actually comprised a MUCH higher percentage of posts then posts

> >about the non-surgical, drug free treatment of back pain. So if drugs are on

> >topic here, secual behavior as it relates to morbidity and mortality (as my

> >post did) is at least as equally on topic.

> >

> > Anglen (who the heck is DrB anyway?)

> >

> >In a message dated 10/9/02 11:22:09 AM Central Daylight Time,

> >dcfs@... writes:

> >

> >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the

> > > delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I

> > > don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even

> > > though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I

> > > have found the delete key on my computer

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Steve Kinne

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here

>

>

[Guest guest]

'Drugs are everywhere and the biggest drug pushers are MD's.'

Ann,

I agree that drugs, both street and prescription , are a problem for health in the United States , if not the world. But like the anti-tobacco activists who put the onus on the tobacco companies, I would prefer to blame the drug companies for planting the seeds of the need for drugs in the publics mind. I would refrain from such a harsh statement re: MD's, our colleagues in healthcare, and rather look to ourselves as needing to work harder to advocate health without drugs, if at all possible. In my mind it is time for the chiropractic profession to start putting out public service announcements regularly on basic health care issues and then we can start to plant our own seeds.

sharron fuchs dc

Re: delete it or not to delete it ---

: Good post. I would state it more strongly. Drugs have everything to do with our practices. Very few patients are NOT taking at least one regular medication. In fact, I frequently have to ask several times over more than one visit about medications. People don't even classify over the counter medications as drugs, so they don't list them or bother to mention that they live on...advil, sudafed... If we recommend something nutritionall, we had better know what else is going in the system. How about the people who come in for a treatment shortly after taking 2 vicodin or a handful of muscle relaxants. Or the lady who shoots up cocaine in the morning before her appointments and doesn't tell her medical doctor about it, but allows him to give her prescriptions for neurontin, paxol and another antidepressant. On that combo she had slurred speech, was incoherent and braely functional. I guess that's how druggies like it. Drugs are everywhere and the biggest drug pushers are MD's.

Ann Goldeen

Astoria

Re: delete it or not to delete it --- >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:10:01 EDT > >I myself agree. SOmetimes the chat groups also serve social functions for >myself. Being the sole breadwinner in my family, giong to school fulltime, >etc etc etc I often cannot get out and socialize, shoot hoops with the guys >etc and this serves a social function too. I am often surprised that any >post with any vaguely religious connotation is often attacked while we see >equally ubiquitous off topic threads on golf, Francis Keye, home >schooling, and Spiderman dancing at a gay bar - all of which I was glad to >receive. My post on playboy was not primarily religious - but pointed at the >fact that sexual behavior is as high a priority as a preventable cause of >death as firearms - and health care providers we ought to be concerned with >the topic of sexual behaviors. From the frequency of posts tht are >considered to be "on topic" we must assume this is a health provider board >and not strictly a chiropractic board. Why would I say that? Just yesterday >there were numerous posts about medications/drugs , which has nothing to do >with chiropractic. Chiropractic is a drugless healing art, and chiropractors >have no training in drugs. Drugs are technically off topic for chiropractors, >but yesterday actually comprised a MUCH higher percentage of posts then posts >about the non-surgical, drug free treatment of back pain. So if drugs are on >topic here, secual behavior as it relates to morbidity and mortality (as my >post did) is at least as equally on topic. > > Anglen (who the heck is DrB anyway?) > >In a message dated 10/9/02 11:22:09 AM Central Daylight Time, >dcfs@... writes: > > > > , > > > > I for one would like to continue to have the OT subjects. I can hit the > > delete button but like Jack who lives somewhere on the edge of the earth I > > don't get a chance to get together with other DC's often and talk so even > > though it is OT it is nice to see the thoughts and chatter from others. I > > have found the delete key on my computer > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve Kinne > > > >

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click HereOregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.