Re: Re: I should have known.....

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/21/01 11:22:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, ang320@...

writes:

<< I have had several problems arise from this chiropractic group. Some I can

understand others have been stupid. But I have been surprised at the

pettiness of some members of this group....but then again perhaps not

surprised.

The latest..... Several months back I posted a message about problems I was

having with Medicare. I guess I struck a chord with several people as

numerous people wanted to contact me, but one in particular.....

The guy who publishes Clinical Chiropractic wanted to publish my e mail in

his newspaper. I asked him how it was going to be used, he assured me it

would be polished up and used simply for information to the chiropractors

who

receive his journal. So I gave permission, but had a sort of uneasy feeling

I

should have listened to.

Today Medicare contacted me. From what they told me someone sent them

directly a copy of my article. Trying to find out who it was, they would not

tell me and implied it was sent anonymously. So I have to meet with them.

They said my articles contained some errors and mistatements that need to be

straightened out. Of course I will be hiring legal counsel to go with me.

If someone sent it in, and identified themselves - I can understand that.

Perhaps I said something they had a hard time putting into words, and felt

they could not say it any better. But at least they would identify

themselves

as a part of the message by putting it in an evelope with a return address

and signing their name to the message. The message being my article.

If it was sent by someone here anonymously, then I can only figure you

wanted

to say what I said but were not brave enough to do so yourself - you wanted

me to take the bullet for you. If you did this you really can only be summed

up as a " gutless piece of shit " . Have some guts.

I would rather not have to go discuss my article with Medicare, I posted it

on the internet to vent some steam supposedly with colleagues who are in the

same boat as myself. I did not expect these same colleagues to either tattle

tale again, or figuratively tie the article to a rock so they can throw it

at

Medicare while hiding in the bushes. But I will go listen to Medicare

educate me on what the truth is. I will stand by my article because, what I

said was simply what happened.

But I want to be removed from this group. Its sometimes hard to take how

easily people on here are offended when they perceive someone insults one of

their icons or gurus, it is hard to accept the sometime closemindedness -

but

I really hate gutless tattle tales.

Anglen

Arizona DC

>>

Hi Lindsey,

I just read your post. We have a rule on this listserv that I thought

everyone understood. The rule is that this post is for our use to educate

ourselves, share with our collegues any clinical questions and advance

legislative goals pertaining to the profession etc. the idea has never been

to publish material from the posts. In fact it's a good idea for us all to

agree not to publish personal comments made in this forum. Do you think the

information to medicare came only from the material you gave permission to

publish? Did you ask to review the material before it was published? Also

it's good for us all to understand that words printed on this forum are very

easily made public and can be misused. I personally am sorry for what has

happened to you. I'm hoping it was not someone blowing a whistle. That's why

I'm asking the following:

Could we all take a wake up call from this? Please don't forward or publish

personal comments without the permission of the person who made the

statement. This is standard email etiquette. I think this point needs to be

sent to each new member and agreed upon by each current member.

Minga Guerrero DC

270 NE 181 Ave

Portland, Or

97230

[Guest guest]

,

When are you going to meet with Medicare?

I can document incredible abuse of the system by Medicare processors.

Currently, Medicare is handled for Oregon Chiropractors by Blue Cross of

Fargo N.D. (Motto: Dang! It was cold last night!)

We see time and employee sucking situations which are amazing to rational

people.

We have billed Medicare for patients receiving denials based upon some rule.

We rebill with the correction made and receive an automated denial/response

from the computer stating that the bill for that date of service has already

been considered.

We have called adjusters who try to help but can't get through their own red

tape.

We have had patients accuse us of improper billing procedures from the TONE

of Medicare's information to them. When we show them our paper trail with

rebillings, explanations, documentation, corrections, further rebillings

referring to previous explanations, and finally an undeniable brick wall,

the patients often become as frustrated as we are.

Sometimes we don't have an opportunity to explain our side of the story

clearly and my relationship with my patient suffers. I would say that the

patient suffers as I'm the only type of provider who can provide what they

need.

I have written information sheets attempting to avoid sarcasm which explain

to the patient pre-emptively that Medicare is a strange organization but we

will do our best to help them get reimbursed. (Reimbursed because we do not

have the time or money to rebill, explain, etc. for $30 so I don't accept

assignment. We do however care about people and so we will treat them for

less than it is worth.)

I hope you don't have a rotten holiday because some knucklehead decided to

send in your email with your name attached.

Cowards don't all reside in Al Queda.

(Mystery doctor, please feel free to send my email to Medicare. In fact, I

think I'll attach it to the next pile of rebillings for you.)

--

Dr. Abrahamson

> From: ang320@...

> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:18:06 EST

>

> Subject: Re: I should have known.....

>

> I have had several problems arise from this chiropractic group. Some I can

> understand others have been stupid. But I have been surprised at the

> pettiness of some members of this group....but then again perhaps not

> surprised.

>

> The latest..... Several months back I posted a message about problems I was

> having with Medicare. I guess I struck a chord with several people as

> numerous people wanted to contact me, but one in particular.....

>

> The guy who publishes Clinical Chiropractic wanted to publish my e mail in

> his newspaper. I asked him how it was going to be used, he assured me it

> would be polished up and used simply for information to the chiropractors who

> receive his journal. So I gave permission, but had a sort of uneasy feeling I

> should have listened to.

>

> Today Medicare contacted me. From what they told me someone sent them

> directly a copy of my article. Trying to find out who it was, they would not

> tell me and implied it was sent anonymously. So I have to meet with them.

> They said my articles contained some errors and mistatements that need to be

> straightened out. Of course I will be hiring legal counsel to go with me.

>

> If someone sent it in, and identified themselves - I can understand that.

> Perhaps I said something they had a hard time putting into words, and felt

> they could not say it any better. But at least they would identify themselves

> as a part of the message by putting it in an evelope with a return address

> and signing their name to the message. The message being my article.

>

> If it was sent by someone here anonymously, then I can only figure you wanted

> to say what I said but were not brave enough to do so yourself - you wanted

> me to take the bullet for you. If you did this you really can only be summed

> up as a " gutless piece of shit " . Have some guts.

>

> I would rather not have to go discuss my article with Medicare, I posted it

> on the internet to vent some steam supposedly with colleagues who are in the

> same boat as myself. I did not expect these same colleagues to either tattle

> tale again, or figuratively tie the article to a rock so they can throw it at

> Medicare while hiding in the bushes. But I will go listen to Medicare

> educate me on what the truth is. I will stand by my article because, what I

> said was simply what happened.

>

> But I want to be removed from this group. Its sometimes hard to take how

> easily people on here are offended when they perceive someone insults one of

> their icons or gurus, it is hard to accept the sometime closemindedness - but

> I really hate gutless tattle tales.

>

> Anglen

> Arizona DC

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Lindsey,

Sorry you are dropping out of our Oregon DC group, you have been a wonderful voice, and I for one, will miss you. I frequently use the combination of Chinese Liniment, and DMSO/aloe gel that you educated me about.

I am sorry you are having trouble with medicare, and sorry that one of our own turned you in

good luck

marc

Marc Heller,DCmheller@...987 Siskiyou Blvd.Ashland, OR 97520541-482-0625

-----Original Message-----From: ang320@... [mailto:ang320@...]Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:18 AM Subject: Re: I should have known.....I have had several problems arise from this chiropractic group. Some I can understand others have been stupid. But I have been surprised at the pettiness of some members of this group....but then again perhaps not surprised. The latest..... Several months back I posted a message about problems I was having with Medicare. I guess I struck a chord with several people as numerous people wanted to contact me, but one in particular..... The guy who publishes Clinical Chiropractic wanted to publish my e mail in his newspaper. I asked him how it was going to be used, he assured me it would be polished up and used simply for information to the chiropractors who receive his journal. So I gave permission, but had a sort of uneasy feeling I should have listened to. Today Medicare contacted me. From what they told me someone sent them directly a copy of my article. Trying to find out who it was, they would not tell me and implied it was sent anonymously. So I have to meet with them. They said my articles contained some errors and mistatements that need to be straightened out. Of course I will be hiring legal counsel to go with me. If someone sent it in, and identified themselves - I can understand that. Perhaps I said something they had a hard time putting into words, and felt they could not say it any better. But at least they would identify themselves as a part of the message by putting it in an evelope with a return address and signing their name to the message. The message being my article. If it was sent by someone here anonymously, then I can only figure you wanted to say what I said but were not brave enough to do so yourself - you wanted me to take the bullet for you. If you did this you really can only be summed up as a "gutless piece of shit". Have some guts. I would rather not have to go discuss my article with Medicare, I posted it on the internet to vent some steam supposedly with colleagues who are in the same boat as myself. I did not expect these same colleagues to either tattle tale again, or figuratively tie the article to a rock so they can throw it at Medicare while hiding in the bushes. But I will go listen to Medicare educate me on what the truth is. I will stand by my article because, what I said was simply what happened. But I want to be removed from this group. Its sometimes hard to take how easily people on here are offended when they perceive someone insults one of their icons or gurus, it is hard to accept the sometime closemindedness - but I really hate gutless tattle tales. Anglen Arizona DC

[Guest guest]

Lindsey;

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of any political group

critical of Medicare? If so, you may be required to attend a

compulsory 6 week re-education camp to be held at the former Japanese

citizen internment site in California. Personal liberty?

Ha! Welcome to the 21st century. But seriously, how can the

folks at Medicare compel you to meet with them just because they think

you have made inaccurate statements about them? What's up with

that?????

Joe McCarthy D.C.

At 02:18 PM 11/21/01 -0500, ang320@... wrote:

I have

had several problems arise from this chiropractic group. Some I can

understand others have been stupid. But I have been surprised at

the pettiness of some members of this group....but then again perhaps not

surprised.

The latest..... Several months back I posted a message about problems I

was having with Medicare. I guess I struck a chord with several people as

numerous people wanted to contact me, but one in particular.....

The guy who publishes Clinical Chiropractic wanted to publish my e mail

in his newspaper. I asked him how it was going to be used, he assured me

it would be polished up and used simply for information to the

chiropractors who receive his journal. So I gave permission, but had a

sort of uneasy feeling I should have listened to.

Today Medicare contacted me. From what they told me someone sent them

directly a copy of my article. Trying to find out who it was, they would

not tell me and implied it was sent anonymously. So I have to meet with

them. They said my articles contained some errors and mistatements that

need to be straightened out. Of course I will be hiring legal counsel to

go with me.

If someone sent it in, and identified themselves - I can understand that.

Perhaps I said something they had a hard time putting into words, and

felt they could not say it any better. But at least they would identify

themselves as a part of the message by putting it in an evelope with a

return address and signing their name to the message. The message being

my article.

If it was sent by someone here anonymously, then I can only figure you

wanted to say what I said but were not brave enough to do so yourself -

you wanted me to take the bullet for you. If you did this you really can

only be summed up as a " gutless piece of shit " . Have some

guts.

I would rather not have to go discuss my article with Medicare, I posted

it on the internet to vent some steam supposedly with colleagues who are

in the same boat as myself. I did not expect these same colleagues to

either tattle tale again, or figuratively tie the article to a rock so

they can throw it at Medicare while hiding in the bushes. But I

will go listen to Medicare educate me on what the truth is. I will stand

by my article because, what I said was simply what happened.

But I want to be removed from this group. Its sometimes hard to take how

easily people on here are offended when they perceive someone insults one

of their icons or gurus, it is hard to accept the sometime

closemindedness - but I really hate gutless tattle tales.

Anglen

Arizona DC

Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

[Guest guest]

,

I just came across your e-mail, having been away from Oregon since Sunday and

only checking my mail sporadically. I don't recall the e-mail that you are

referring to, but I am pretty sure that Medicare cannot abrogate your first

amendment rights, and that you have the right to write anything you want about

the system, pissed off or not. Under what authority are they asking you to meet

with them? What could the propose to do to you as a result of a letter that

someone else submitted to The Chiropractic Journal?

This isn't Soviet Russia for cripes sakes, and no one has the right to

interrogate you for something that you may or may not have written about

Medicare guidelines etc.

Now, if you don't mind a quick lecture for everyone's benefit; DON'T EVER POST

SOMETHING ON THIS LISTSERVE THAT YOU AREN'T COMFORTABLE WITH THE WHOLE WORLD

READING!!!! This is not a secure listserve and the stuff that you write can be

turned around and used in a manner that you did not intend.

Believe me, I know about this, having had 3 year old e-mails read to me in court

in the hope that it would cast me in a negative light in front of a jury.

I have survived that as you will survive this. It is an excellent lesson to be

careful about anything you write. It is not a lesson to never write again or to

quit the listserve.

You can't tell me that you are suprised that there is a " gutless shitbag "

lurking on this listserve. Any Oregon licensee can join, and out of 150+ docs

there is bound to be a bad apple, perhaps 2.

What about the 145+ good and decent docs who have benefited from your input, and

the benefit that you have reaped from others' ideas? Just because you had a bad

game doesn't mean that you should go home and take the ball with you.

Of course you can quit the listserve, but I don't think that anyone wins for it.

I would like to see you stay. I'll understand (but not agree with your

rationale) if you want to quit, and you are always welcome back.

Freeman

Huntington, Long Island, NY

Re: Re: I should have known.....

> ,

> It is unfortunate that this has occurred and that you will be leaving our

group. Your experience and perspective has been instructive and an ecouragement

to me, please reconsider. I do however understand your anger with what has

occurred. It is unfortunate that the costs get very high when we find a forum

in this profession to communicate professionally, and at times, personally, as I

believe this is the nidus of unity that is so rare to us and so desparately

needed. I guess that we all take a risk in this forum and so this incident now

will separate us all a bit further. I thank you for your candor and wish you

all good things. Best regards, Steve Lumsden

>

> Re: I should have known.....

>

>

> I have had several problems arise from this chiropractic group. Some I can

understand others have been stupid. But I have been surprised at the pettiness

of some members of this group....but then again perhaps not surprised.

>

> The latest..... Several months back I posted a message about problems I was

having with Medicare. I guess I struck a chord with several people as numerous

people wanted to contact me, but one in particular.....

>

> The guy who publishes Clinical Chiropractic wanted to publish my e mail in

his newspaper. I asked him how it was going to be used, he assured me it would

be polished up and used simply for information to the chiropractors who receive

his journal. So I gave permission, but had a sort of uneasy feeling I should

have listened to.

>

> Today Medicare contacted me. From what they told me someone sent them

directly a copy of my article. Trying to find out who it was, they would not

tell me and implied it was sent anonymously. So I have to meet with them. They

said my articles contained some errors and mistatements that need to be

straightened out. Of course I will be hiring legal counsel to go with me.

>

> If someone sent it in, and identified themselves - I can understand that.

Perhaps I said something they had a hard time putting into words, and felt they

could not say it any better. But at least they would identify themselves as a

part of the message by putting it in an evelope with a return address and

signing their name to the message. The message being my article.

>

> If it was sent by someone here anonymously, then I can only figure you

wanted to say what I said but were not brave enough to do so yourself - you

wanted me to take the bullet for you. If you did this you really can only be

summed up as a " gutless piece of shit " . Have some guts.

>

> I would rather not have to go discuss my article with Medicare, I posted it

on the internet to vent some steam supposedly with colleagues who are in the

same boat as myself. I did not expect these same colleagues to either tattle

tale again, or figuratively tie the article to a rock so they can throw it at

Medicare while hiding in the bushes. But I will go listen to Medicare educate

me on what the truth is. I will stand by my article because, what I said was

simply what happened.

>

> But I want to be removed from this group. Its sometimes hard to take how

easily people on here are offended when they perceive someone insults one of

their icons or gurus, it is hard to accept the sometime closemindedness - but I

really hate gutless tattle tales.

>

> Anglen

> Arizona DC

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

It is unfortunate that this has occurred and that you will be leaving our group. Your experience and perspective has been instructive and an ecouragement to me, please reconsider. I do however understand your anger with what has occurred. It is unfortunate that the costs get very high when we find a forum in this profession to communicate professionally, and at times, personally, as I believe this is the nidus of unity that is so rare to us and so desparately needed. I guess that we all take a risk in this forum and so this incident now will separate us all a bit further. I thank you for your candor and wish you all good things. Best regards, Steve Lumsden

Re: I should have known.....

I have had several problems arise from this chiropractic group. Some I can understand others have been stupid. But I have been surprised at the pettiness of some members of this group....but then again perhaps not surprised. The latest..... Several months back I posted a message about problems I was having with Medicare. I guess I struck a chord with several people as numerous people wanted to contact me, but one in particular..... The guy who publishes Clinical Chiropractic wanted to publish my e mail in his newspaper. I asked him how it was going to be used, he assured me it would be polished up and used simply for information to the chiropractors who receive his journal. So I gave permission, but had a sort of uneasy feeling I should have listened to. Today Medicare contacted me. From what they told me someone sent them directly a copy of my article. Trying to find out who it was, they would not tell me and implied it was sent anonymously. So I have to meet with them. They said my articles contained some errors and mistatements that need to be straightened out. Of course I will be hiring legal counsel to go with me. If someone sent it in, and identified themselves - I can understand that. Perhaps I said something they had a hard time putting into words, and felt they could not say it any better. But at least they would identify themselves as a part of the message by putting it in an evelope with a return address and signing their name to the message. The message being my article. If it was sent by someone here anonymously, then I can only figure you wanted to say what I said but were not brave enough to do so yourself - you wanted me to take the bullet for you. If you did this you really can only be summed up as a "gutless piece of shit". Have some guts. I would rather not have to go discuss my article with Medicare, I posted it on the internet to vent some steam supposedly with colleagues who are in the same boat as myself. I did not expect these same colleagues to either tattle tale again, or figuratively tie the article to a rock so they can throw it at Medicare while hiding in the bushes. But I will go listen to Medicare educate me on what the truth is. I will stand by my article because, what I said was simply what happened. But I want to be removed from this group. Its sometimes hard to take how easily people on here are offended when they perceive someone insults one of their icons or gurus, it is hard to accept the sometime closemindedness - but I really hate gutless tattle tales. Anglen Arizona DC

[Guest guest]

Listmates;

IF your medicare denials qualify for a hearing, Batch all your denials

together and request a HEARING IN PERSON

Since we've been dong this our denial rate is VERY low. (It cost about

$1500.00 to do a hearing in Pendleton air fare from Fargo, lodging food

etc, etc and wind up paying the claim ,too.). The hearings officer will

contact you in advance to set time and place so you do have a chance to

remind them of the additional costs to loose a claim(s), IF your

documentation is adequate AND complete!!!!!!!

Give it a try.

DrBob

[Guest guest]

,

I have been out of town until today and find your letter upsetting to

say the least. I think if, in fact, someone did send this anonymously

that act is the epitome of cowardice. The suggestions my colleagues

have sent you are wise.

I have often considered removing my name from this list, too.

I find though, that the information I glean and the insight I get concerning

the mind-set of some of the docs in Oregon gives me a clearer view of the

flavor of the profession.

I have always been very careful to remain only factual in most of the

posts I place, or I only send direct information I've swiped from someone

else because I've found misinterpretation to be rampant, not just in Oregon,

not just in chiropractic, but in general, wherever that is.

If you do remove yourself from the list we will miss your input.

By the way, I really hate gutless tattle tales, too.

R. Stearns, D.C.

ang320@... wrote:

I have

had several problems arise from this chiropractic group. Some I can understand

others have been stupid. But I have been surprised at the pettiness

of some members of this group....but then again perhaps not surprised.

The latest..... Several months

back I posted a message about problems I was having with Medicare. I guess

I struck a chord with several people as numerous people wanted to contact

me, but one in particular.....

The guy who publishes Clinical

Chiropractic wanted to publish my e mail in his newspaper. I asked him

how it was going to be used, he assured me it would be polished up and

used simply for information to the chiropractors who receive his journal.

So I gave permission, but had a sort of uneasy feeling I should have listened

to.

Today Medicare contacted

me. From what they told me someone sent them directly a copy of my article.

Trying to find out who it was, they would not tell me and implied it was

sent anonymously. So I have to meet with them. They said my articles contained

some errors and mistatements that need to be straightened out. Of course

I will be hiring legal counsel to go with me.

If someone sent it in, and

identified themselves - I can understand that. Perhaps I said something

they had a hard time putting into words, and felt they could not say it

any better. But at least they would identify themselves as a part of the

message by putting it in an evelope with a return address and signing their

name to the message. The message being my article.

If it was sent by someone

here anonymously, then I can only figure you wanted to say what I said

but were not brave enough to do so yourself - you wanted me to take the

bullet for you. If you did this you really can only be summed up as a "gutless

piece of shit". Have some guts.

I would rather not have to

go discuss my article with Medicare, I posted it on the internet to vent

some steam supposedly with colleagues who are in the same boat as myself.

I did not expect these same colleagues to either tattle tale again, or

figuratively tie the article to a rock so they can throw it at Medicare

while hiding in the bushes. But I will go listen to Medicare educate

me on what the truth is. I will stand by my article because, what I said

was simply what happened.

But I want to be removed

from this group. Its sometimes hard to take how easily people on here are

offended when they perceive someone insults one of their icons or gurus,

it is hard to accept the sometime closemindedness - but I really hate gutless

tattle tales.

Anglen

Arizona DC