Re: Re: spinal screenings

[Guest guest]

Gents,

Let's keep the tone of this discussion friendly, please. I realize that it's easy to get fired up over both sides of the topic, but in order to engage in constructive discourse we have to abandon all rancor and not take general criticisms of a practice as a personal attack.

Like , I also have seen the booths set up at fairs and malls and cringed when I walked by, but on the other hand I've known Shepard for nearly 20 years and never known him to associated with anything that was not in impeccable taste. If I knew that every public display of chiropractic was to be conducted by and other docs of similar ilk I would never have a problem with the screenings and lay discussions of chiropractic.

I think we all worry when the minimally competent newly graduated doc with $150K in student loans engages in a similar endeavor, and this is probably what was referring to.

I can sum up my attitude toward this subject as follows; if the marketing is tasteful, appropriate, informative, and makes me feel good about my profession and fellow docs then I am all for it.

D Freeman Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180Salem, Oregon 97303phone 503 763-3528fax 503 763-3530pager 888 501-7328

Re: spinal screenings

Thanks ...I appreciate your angle.I guess it has been my misforture to witness and subsequently treat patients who were served a large plate of hype and overstatement about shorten life spans due to leg length inequality. I can't be THAT good to correct something in 3 visits that the guy at the carnival had them sign a contract for 3 times a week for the next 6 months.I think it a tad unfair to suggest that those of us who trust that in-office efforts and individual education, producing referrals in a nearly 100% positive fashion are lacking gump and wherewithall since they won't set up a booth at the mall..certainly getting the word out is a good thing, and to that I have no argument.

[Guest guest]

hi michael,

i saw your post and it was appropriate. i don't think sean intended to be anonymous but frankly, especially with touchy subjects, i think anonymous might be better. one of the profession's problems is the inability to talk civilly let alone rationally in times of differences of opinion. i think underlying this is the tremendous stress that the practioners feel when their passion, thought processes, medical reasoning and ability to make a livelihood is threatened. so i can understand some of the conflict even though i am not in practice. in the long run however, our internal wrangling gets us nowhere. again, as i have mentioned in posts about specific medical subjects i think that consistent language is what will work best. if we are consistent in our language then it can be repeated over and over, whether at a booth at the fair, in the office, while giving a lecture or whatever. it would also give an overall sense of harmony. ( female talk, i like harmony). this, of course would be tough to do because chiropractors are renegades by nature. so are plaintiff's lawyers. my immediate boss who was the office manager said running the office of plaintiff's lawyers was like ' hearding cats'. ( i thought it was more akin to cannabilism and often asked if cannibals ate each other ? ) i say find the commonality - think it, say it, practice it and before we know it the public , politicians and ourselves will be less confused.

to that end... dr. saboe has some unfinished business... to wit, the literature citations and his reasoning...so we can all get on the same page with cmt and strokes.

vty,

sharron fuchs dc

Re: Re: spinal screenings

Gents,

Let's keep the tone of this discussion friendly, please. I realize that it's easy to get fired up over both sides of the topic, but in order to engage in constructive discourse we have to abandon all rancor and not take general criticisms of a practice as a personal attack.

Like , I also have seen the booths set up at fairs and malls and cringed when I walked by, but on the other hand I've known Shepard for nearly 20 years and never known him to associated with anything that was not in impeccable taste. If I knew that every public display of chiropractic was to be conducted by and other docs of similar ilk I would never have a problem with the screenings and lay discussions of chiropractic.

I think we all worry when the minimally competent newly graduated doc with $150K in student loans engages in a similar endeavor, and this is probably what was referring to.

I can sum up my attitude toward this subject as follows; if the marketing is tasteful, appropriate, informative, and makes me feel good about my profession and fellow docs then I am all for it.

D Freeman Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180Salem, Oregon 97303phone 503 763-3528fax 503 763-3530pager 888 501-7328

Re: spinal screenings

Thanks ...I appreciate your angle.I guess it has been my misforture to witness and subsequently treat patients who were served a large plate of hype and overstatement about shorten life spans due to leg length inequality. I can't be THAT good to correct something in 3 visits that the guy at the carnival had them sign a contract for 3 times a week for the next 6 months.I think it a tad unfair to suggest that those of us who trust that in-office efforts and individual education, producing referrals in a nearly 100% positive fashion are lacking gump and wherewithall since they won't set up a booth at the mall..certainly getting the word out is a good thing, and to that I have no argument.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharron,

I agree that there are many touchy subjects in chiropractic, but the purpose of this listserve is to foster open and friendly communication between folks who normally might not think that they have enough in common to even say hello to each other, much less sit down and chat. For this reason, all communications need to be signed. I know that was not trying to post anonymously but it's always good to remind new listserve members of the general rules of conduct of the listserve.

D Freeman Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180Salem, Oregon 97303phone 503 763-3528fax 503 763-3530pager 888 501-7328

Re: spinal screenings

Thanks ...I appreciate your angle.I guess it has been my misforture to witness and subsequently treat patients who were served a large plate of hype and overstatement about shorten life spans due to leg length inequality. I can't be THAT good to correct something in 3 visits that the guy at the carnival had them sign a contract for 3 times a week for the next 6 months.I think it a tad unfair to suggest that those of us who trust that in-office efforts and individual education, producing referrals in a nearly 100% positive fashion are lacking gump and wherewithall since they won't set up a booth at the mall..certainly getting the word out is a good thing, and to that I have no argument.

[Guest guest]

agreed.

sharron fuchs dc

Re: Re: spinal screenings

Hi Sharron,

I agree that there are many touchy subjects in chiropractic, but the purpose of this listserve is to foster open and friendly communication between folks who normally might not think that they have enough in common to even say hello to each other, much less sit down and chat. For this reason, all communications need to be signed. I know that was not trying to post anonymously but it's always good to remind new listserve members of the general rules of conduct of the listserve.

D Freeman Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180Salem, Oregon 97303phone 503 763-3528fax 503 763-3530pager 888 501-7328

Re: spinal screenings

Thanks ...I appreciate your angle.I guess it has been my misforture to witness and subsequently treat patients who were served a large plate of hype and overstatement about shorten life spans due to leg length inequality. I can't be THAT good to correct something in 3 visits that the guy at the carnival had them sign a contract for 3 times a week for the next 6 months.I think it a tad unfair to suggest that those of us who trust that in-office efforts and individual education, producing referrals in a nearly 100% positive fashion are lacking gump and wherewithall since they won't set up a booth at the mall..certainly getting the word out is a good thing, and to that I have no argument.

[Guest guest]

Sharron,

Wrangling is good!

If Oregon chiropractors did more wrangling we'd get more of our problems worked-out and we would of worked a hell of lot more of our problems out over the last 20 years. Instead, docs get pent-up in factions with isolation, anomosity, and misunderstanding the result.

As for listserve members who make comments that are anonymous, this in my opinion is unacceptable. This is a private forum that has no public access. Hence this component to your argument is inapplicable.

We need to wrangle in private and look like steel mesh in public. The fact that we don't do this is our problem!

If we have,however, a group of doctors (and a few attorneys)--all professionals--who can't take responsibility for their statements, this would be a forum I would chose not to participate in.

I say "Heard the Cats." And may the cats be known.

S.

Re: spinal screenings

Thanks ...I appreciate your angle.I guess it has been my misforture to witness and subsequently treat patients who were served a large plate of hype and overstatement about shorten life spans due to leg length inequality. I can't be THAT good to correct something in 3 visits that the guy at the carnival had them sign a contract for 3 times a week for the next 6 months.I think it a tad unfair to suggest that those of us who trust that in-office efforts and individual education, producing referrals in a nearly 100% positive fashion are lacking gump and wherewithall since they won't set up a booth at the mall..certainly getting the word out is a good thing, and to that I have no argument.

[Guest guest]

hi scott,

there is wrangling and then there is wraaaangling. i guess it all depends on how it is done and the what the spirit of the dialogue is. i'm not terribly contentious (some i know might disagree -as i do get a bit crazy over my children ) and my personal style is a bit different. but you're right we do need to discuss issues and this is a great forum for it. i would like to see more people participate in this listserve and if freedom from fear of reprisal, dismissal or ridicule would encourage that then i'm all for the methods to bring about that goal. if being anonymous is not correct in this forum then okay but i can think of times that anonymous is better than not saying anything at all. especially with touchy subjects. but who cares ? i sign my letters even though i know that none of you know how to pronounce my last name........

and those pesky cats ?

they really are brats

but you know i love them dearly.

vty,

sharron fuchs dc

means fox in german pronounced fewks ...and don't screw it up !

-----Original Message-----From: Dr. Shephard, D.C. [mailto:shep@...]Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:08 PM'Dr. D. Freeman'; Sharron FuchsCc: Subject: Re: Re: spinal screenings

Sharron,

Wrangling is good!

If Oregon chiropractors did more wrangling we'd get more of our problems worked-out and we would of worked a hell of lot more of our problems out over the last 20 years. Instead, docs get pent-up in factions with isolation, anomosity, and misunderstanding the result.

As for listserve members who make comments that are anonymous, this in my opinion is unacceptable. This is a private forum that has no public access. Hence this component to your argument is inapplicable.

We need to wrangle in private and look like steel mesh in public. The fact that we don't do this is our problem!

If we have,however, a group of doctors (and a few attorneys)--all professionals--who can't take responsibility for their statements, this would be a forum I would chose not to participate in.

I say "Heard the Cats." And may the cats be known.

S.

Re: spinal screenings

Thanks ...I appreciate your angle.I guess it has been my misforture to witness and subsequently treat patients who were served a large plate of hype and overstatement about shorten life spans due to leg length inequality. I can't be THAT good to correct something in 3 visits that the guy at the carnival had them sign a contract for 3 times a week for the next 6 months.I think it a tad unfair to suggest that those of us who trust that in-office efforts and individual education, producing referrals in a nearly 100% positive fashion are lacking gump and wherewithall since they won't set up a booth at the mall..certainly getting the word out is a good thing, and to that I have no argument.

[Guest guest]

Sharron I have choose not to contribute on the elist because it is so controlled. I don't feel like I can express myself with out somebody complaining that I am to aggressive, blunt, rude, etc. What's up with all the tame demeanor. What's wrong with a little heat now and then.

Don Fox

Re: spinal screenings

Thanks ...I appreciate your angle.I guess it has been my misforture to witness and subsequently treat patients who were served a large plate of hype and overstatement about shorten life spans due to leg length inequality. I can't be THAT good to correct something in 3 visits that the guy at the carnival had them sign a contract for 3 times a week for the next 6 months.I think it a tad unfair to suggest that those of us who trust that in-office efforts and individual education, producing referrals in a nearly 100% positive fashion are lacking gump and wherewithall since they won't set up a booth at the mall..certainly getting the word out is a good thing, and to that I have no argument.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Fox,

The advantage of this e-list is that it allows you to express your feelings but not in terms that will be offensive or unprofessional. The format thus pushes you to portray your feelings in more creative terms than $%^#ing, @ & ^# rat's & *^#, and !!^%# & ear mite which you have to admit get a bit repetitive.

I think that it is important that you get in touch with your inner creative writer.

D Freeman Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180Salem, Oregon 97303phone 503 763-3528fax 503 763-3530pager 888 501-7328

Re: spinal screenings

Thanks ...I appreciate your angle.I guess it has been my misforture to witness and subsequently treat patients who were served a large plate of hype and overstatement about shorten life spans due to leg length inequality. I can't be THAT good to correct something in 3 visits that the guy at the carnival had them sign a contract for 3 times a week for the next 6 months.I think it a tad unfair to suggest that those of us who trust that in-office efforts and individual education, producing referrals in a nearly 100% positive fashion are lacking gump and wherewithall since they won't set up a booth at the mall..certainly getting the word out is a good thing, and to that I have no argument.