Guest guest Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 I think NMC are revisiting the code of conduct at present; somethng in NMC news about it. Margaret Buttigieg wrote: Dear all I was quite concerned about the implied implications of the discussions earlier in the week around accountability - as some people reading the discussion might think that a qualified HV or SN holding a caseload was ultimately accountable for everything that happened to any clients on that caseload whether she had had contact with them, knew them or not. Obviously this is not true - a HV/SN can only be held accountable for work she does and this might include inappropriate delegation to a team member or failing to follow the agreed programme of visiting and not raising it as an issue if she does not have the time to do so - she cannot be accountable for missing something on a family she has not seen if the policy is to only do so many visits or to delegate work to others in the team. The issue is the competency and of course the education and training of the team member the work is delegated to. If that person is a registered nurse then he/she has their own accountability and to only do things they feel they are competent to do. IF the team member is a nursery nurse or an HCA and the trust policy is for them to do the work as a delegate task then they as an employee and the Trust has the accountability as does the manager of the service. Lamming in his report on Climbie was very clear about managerial accountability - and it is well worth a revisit. I feel very strongly that accountability today within a multi agency and multi professional agenda is a much wider issue than the NMC imply in the code of conduct and I think requires much wider debate. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 I think this is very helpful . It makes clear that when registrants delegate an activity, they are accountable for assessing both the needs of the person receiving the service, and the skills of those delivering it. Margaret's points are well made, too; but I wonder how many managers and PCT clinical governance leads realise (or would accept) that they are accountable, if they are registrants, for the level of delegation in their policies? I am thinking, if the policy is for only one visit/contact by a health visitor, and subsequent contacts that may be all by more junior staff or not at all, then if something goes wrong (child protection, developmental delay etc) then the Trust and managers should be accountable. The abstract of the Cantrill review of the four badly neglected children in Sheffield, published a bit over a month ago, implied only that it was 'bad practice' that led to the case being missed by the health visitor. The required number of contacts had been carried out, but the family did not voluntarily renew contact between them. Management was completely exonerated, which seems very different to the take of the Laming Report, but perhaps the full review (not published) gave greater insight into why that was so. best wishes Tom Lund-Lack wrote: From Lund-Lack I totally agree with you Margeret. As far as using non-NMC registerd staff we have a quality standard that addresses this issue. The strategy is that they work within agreed competencies (A4C will also support this) and that they have adequate training, supervision and personal development opportunities. We give clients a leaflet about the health visiting team and what the role of nursery nurses is. This makes clients aware that they may recieve services from non-registered nurses but that does not mean that they get any less of a service, actually they get added value. They are also aware that these members of staff work under supervision and that the named health visitors delegate the work to them. Locally we feel that it is important that delegation is as a result of initial assessment work by a registered nurse or health visitor therefore antenatal and transfer in visits are not the responsibility of non-registered staff. Some nursery nurses run Baby Clinics but this depends on the level of their experience, training and the client group. Clients know that the nursery nurses will defer to the HV if necessary. Most nursery nurses are more than competent to know when something needs referring for more specialist advice, it's not rocket science. Parents do it all the time without any training. accountability Dear all I was quite concerned about the implied implications of the discussions earlier in the week around accountability - as some people reading the discussion might think that a qualified HV or SN holding a caseload was ultimately accountable for everything that happened to any clients on that caseload whether she had had contact with them, knew them or not. Obviously this is not true - a HV/SN can only be held accountable for work she does and this might include inappropriate delegation to a team member or failing to follow the agreed programme of visiting and not raising it as an issue if she does not have the time to do so - she cannot be accountable for missing something on a family she has not seen if the policy is to only do so many visits or to delegate work to others in the team. The issue is the competency and of course the education and training of the team member the work is delegated to. If that person is a registered nurse then he/she has their own accountability and to only do things they feel they are competent to do. IF the team member is a nursery nurse or an HCA and the trust policy is for them to do the work as a delegate task then they as an employee and the Trust has the accountability as does the manager of the service. Lamming in his report on Climbie was very clear about managerial accountability - and it is well worth a revisit. I feel very strongly that accountability today within a multi agency and multi professional agenda is a much wider issue than the NMC imply in the code of conduct and I think requires much wider debate. Margaret No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Dear I was unable to find an attachment with this file-however I recived this message below (see end of message) re a virus from Price (4.58KB). This may have been the offending attachment. it is possible to cut and paste it or resend it-as I would be interested in seeing it? The whole issue of accountability is an area we are needing to be very aware of with job freezes, increasing grade and skill mix and huge pressures on HV's to work differently and configure our service in new and innovative ways. I have found the discussions on accountability invaluable-thank you all for your helpful contributions. Best wishes Maggie BT Virus Protection detected the virus 'W32.Beagle.DL@mm' in the file 'pricelst.zip', attached to the enclosed email message. We scanned the file using Norton AntiVirus but were unable to clean it. Therefore, we removed the content of the attachment from the message. Please contact the message sender if you want to receive the attachment. They must clean the file and resend it before we can deliver it to you safely. accountability Dear all I was quite concerned about the implied implications of the discussions earlier in the week around accountability - as some people reading the discussion might think that a qualified HV or SN holding a caseload was ultimately accountable for everything that happened to any clients on that caseload whether she had had contact with them, knew them or not. Obviously this is not true - a HV/SN can only be held accountable for work she does and this might include inappropriate delegation to a team member or failing to follow the agreed programme of visiting and not raising it as an issue if she does not have the time to do so - she cannot be accountable for missing something on a family she has not seen if the policy is to only do so many visits or to delegate work to others in the team. The issue is the competency and of course the education and training of the team member the work is delegated to. If that person is a registered nurse then he/she has their own accountability and to only do things they feel they are competent to do. IF the team member is a nursery nurse or an HCA and the trust policy is for them to do the work as a delegate task then they as an employee and the Trust has the accountability as does the manager of the service. Lamming in his report on Climbie was very clear about managerial accountability - and it is well worth a revisit. I feel very strongly that accountability today within a multi agency and multi professional agenda is a much wider issue than the NMC imply in the code of conduct and I think requires much wider debate. Margaret No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I did not send an attachment so am unable to clarify for you. accountability Dear all I was quite concerned about the implied implications of the discussions earlier in the week around accountability - as some people reading the discussion might think that a qualified HV or SN holding a caseload was ultimately accountable for everything that happened to any clients on that caseload whether she had had contact with them, knew them or not. Obviously this is not true - a HV/SN can only be held accountable for work she does and this might include inappropriate delegation to a team member or failing to follow the agreed programme of visiting and not raising it as an issue if she does not have the time to do so - she cannot be accountable for missing something on a family she has not seen if the policy is to only do so many visits or to delegate work to others in the team. The issue is the competency and of course the education and training of the team member the work is delegated to. If that person is a registered nurse then he/she has their own accountability and to only do things they feel they are competent to do. IF the team member is a nursery nurse or an HCA and the trust policy is for them to do the work as a delegate task then they as an employee and the Trust has the accountability as does the manager of the service. Lamming in his report on Climbie was very clear about managerial accountability - and it is well worth a revisit. I feel very strongly that accountability today within a multi agency and multi professional agenda is a much wider issue than the NMC imply in the code of conduct and I think requires much wider debate. Margaret No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I did not send an attachment so am unable to clarify for you. accountability Dear all I was quite concerned about the implied implications of the discussions earlier in the week around accountability - as some people reading the discussion might think that a qualified HV or SN holding a caseload was ultimately accountable for everything that happened to any clients on that caseload whether she had had contact with them, knew them or not. Obviously this is not true - a HV/SN can only be held accountable for work she does and this might include inappropriate delegation to a team member or failing to follow the agreed programme of visiting and not raising it as an issue if she does not have the time to do so - she cannot be accountable for missing something on a family she has not seen if the policy is to only do so many visits or to delegate work to others in the team. The issue is the competency and of course the education and training of the team member the work is delegated to. If that person is a registered nurse then he/she has their own accountability and to only do things they feel they are competent to do. IF the team member is a nursery nurse or an HCA and the trust policy is for them to do the work as a delegate task then they as an employee and the Trust has the accountability as does the manager of the service. Lamming in his report on Climbie was very clear about managerial accountability - and it is well worth a revisit. I feel very strongly that accountability today within a multi agency and multi professional agenda is a much wider issue than the NMC imply in the code of conduct and I think requires much wider debate. Margaret No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 04/02/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Hi Everyone, Yes, I'm still here. :-) As a lot of you know I do childcare in my home. I'm taking care of 3 babies plus a couple of older children. The problem that I'm having is since I'm so busy babysitting it's hard to do my workouts. I've been doing them at the same time of day for years. So I need to start new habit at a different time of the day and I'm having trouble doing that. :-o I need your help. I'm going to commit to doing LL 5 days a week and start posting it along with whatever other, if any, workout that I do as I try and figure out a new time to workout daily. Is that OK? Will you root me on? Love, Liz ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I'm need to do the same, Liz. I'm incredibly busy, but need the accountability. Melinda ) ---- " lizkins9@... " <Lizkins9@...> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Yes, I'm still here. :-) As a lot of you know I do childcare in my home. I'm taking care of 3 babies plus a couple of older children. The problem that I'm having is since I'm so busy babysitting it's hard to do my workouts. I've been doing them at the same time of day for years. So I need to start new habit at a different time of the day and I'm having trouble doing that. :-o > > I need your help. I'm going to commit to doing LL 5 days a week and start posting it along with whatever other, if any, workout that I do as I try and figure out a new time to workout daily. Is that OK? Will you root me on? > > Love, Liz > > ____________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! > http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 You go Liz!!! :-) I'm so happy for you that you will be getting back to LL. I am still not doing it like I should but maybe to see how well you and Molly are doing will get me back too. Seems like the time is going faster and faster until I just want to scream. :-{ Of course that is no excuse since we all have to breathe. Anyway I am here to cheer you on even if I'm not actively involved. Chris ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Soaring 3000% Sign up for Free to find out what the next 3000% Stock Winner Is! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c0688afa861117c64cst04vuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 YES Liz! I will root you on and will you root me on as well. I am committing to 5 days a week as well! I cannot believe how much better I feel as I do LL. And my commitment to myself for the rest of 2010 is to feel GOOD! Kelley > > Hi Everyone, > > Yes, I'm still here. :-) As a lot of you know I do childcare in my home. I'm taking care of 3 babies plus a couple of older children. The problem that I'm having is since I'm so busy babysitting it's hard to do my workouts. I've been doing them at the same time of day for years. So I need to start new habit at a different time of the day and I'm having trouble doing that. :-o > > I need your help. I'm going to commit to doing LL 5 days a week and start posting it along with whatever other, if any, workout that I do as I try and figure out a new time to workout daily. Is that OK? Will you root me on? > > Love, Liz > > ____________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! > http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Thanks Chris!!!! Love, Liz ----- Re: Accountability Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:31:39 -0500 You go Liz!!! :-) I'm so happy for you that you will be getting back to LL. I am still not doing it like I should but maybe to see how well you and Molly are doing will get me back too. Seems like the time is going faster and faster until I just want to scream. :-{ Of course that is no excuse since we all have to breathe. Anyway I am here to cheer you on even if I'm not actively involved. Chris __________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Soaring 3000% Sign up for Free to find out what the next 3000% Stock Winner Is! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c0688afa861117c64cst04vuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 We'll do this together Kelley!!!! ----- Re: Accountability Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 16:42:39 -0000 YES Liz! I will root you on and will you root me on as well. I am committing to 5 days a week as well! I cannot believe how much better I feel as I do LL. And my commitment to myself for the rest of 2010 is to feel GOOD! Kelley > > Hi Everyone, > > Yes, I'm still here. :-) As a lot of you know I do childcare in my home. I'm taking care of 3 babies plus a couple of older children. The problem that I'm having is since I'm so busy babysitting it's hard to do my workouts. I've been doing them at the same time of day for years. So I need to start new habit at a different time of the day and I'm having trouble doing that. :-o > > I need your help. I'm going to commit to doing LL 5 days a week and start posting it along with whatever other, if any, workout that I do as I try and figure out a new time to workout daily. Is that OK? Will you root me on? > > Love, Liz > > __________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! > http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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