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> Also tried the ginger carrots recipe and could not get much juice also.

> It seemed to mostly dry up after a day. I added more whey and water.

> Do you think this is still OK?

Mine seem to be fine. I can't imagine that adding water would hurt,

though it got kinda goopy. If it smells good (ie, sour and

" kimchee-ish " for lack of a better term), it probably is good. I've

been eating mine and I haven't fallen over yetl They're especially good

with hummus on rye crackers.

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

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From what I've read, good seratonins only give you sleepiness when you need

to be sleeping. Good seratonin in the day means good mood, sense of

well-being, etc. I'd consider allergy, blood sugar, etc. However, I'd consider

blood

sugar problem above all, since raw milk should be less allergenic or even

non-allergenic, and not more. Kefir could help stabilize blood sugar by having

lower carbs (though how lactic acid fits into this is up for grabs).

I wonder if mixing your kefir half cream before you ferment it would help.

If it does, it's probably a blood sugar thing, whereas butter being fine could

indicate that *or* an allergy to the protein.

I don't know details about tryptophan, but I drink milk throughout the day

and it doesn't make me sleepy. It *definitely* helps at night for me to sleep

though.

Chris

In a message dated 7/16/03 11:05:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> I have this experience with all dairy except butter, which is why I'm

> looking to go dairy-free for awhile in the near future to see what

> happens. (Or rather, dairy-free with the exception of butter.)

>

> >Anybody else have this experience?

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

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I wonder if anyone else has noticed sleepiness after drinking raw

milk. I know there is something in milk and turkey, tryptophan I

think, that makes you sleepy, but since I just started drinking raw

milk 6 or 7 weeks ago, I have noticed the effect is much more

pronounced than it ever was with pasteurized or ultrapasteurized

milk. I now leave all my milk drinking for just before bed. Kefir

has less of an effect. Anybody else have this experience?

Ann

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Ann-

I have this experience with all dairy except butter, which is why I'm

looking to go dairy-free for awhile in the near future to see what

happens. (Or rather, dairy-free with the exception of butter.)

>Anybody else have this experience?

-

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Chris-

I don't even use milk at all anymore, just cream, so it's not the carbs. A

stew with a little tomato paste probably has more carbs, and that doesn't

knock me out or mess with my blood sugar. I just think some people don't

do as well with dairy as others.

>I wonder if mixing your kefir half cream before you ferment it would help.

>If it does, it's probably a blood sugar thing, whereas butter being fine

>could

>indicate that *or* an allergy to the protein.

-

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In a message dated 7/16/2003 11:11:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

writes:

> I wonder if anyone else has noticed sleepiness after drinking raw

> milk.

Wouldn't this be the cal/mag in milk, probably because it is so much more

absorbable, causing sleepiness?

Sharon

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In a message dated 7/16/03 11:25:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> I don't even use milk at all anymore, just cream, so it's not the carbs. A

>

> stew with a little tomato paste probably has more carbs, and that doesn't

> knock me out or mess with my blood sugar. I just think some people don't

> do as well with dairy as others.

Probably. I was actually responding to Ann, I don't know why I quoted your

post, since I know you use cream and have tried half-cream kefir, etc.

But now I'm considering my response doesn't even make sense anyway, since

there's no reason raw milk would have a greater effect on blood sugar than

pasterurized milk. I guess it might make sense that more trytophan would be

available, but I'm not sure why that would make one sleepy in the middle of the

day.

Chris

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In a message dated 7/17/03 8:12:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lyn122@...

writes:

> Have you seen anything showing how much tryptophan is in milk? I

> always thought the sleepiness was from more bioavaliable Ca and Mg.

> I use a glass to help me sleep through the night all the time.

No but supposedly milk is a good source of it.

How much Mg is in milk? I've never seen the figures but I've always gotten

the impression it has a high Ca:Mg ratio.

I think the calcium does help to sleep. I always figured milk helps me sleep

for three reasons: the tryptophan-seratonin connection, the calcium in the

milk, and blood sugar. While milk isn't the best blood-sugar stabilizer, if I

go to bed with low blood sugar I can't fall asleep, so if I drink a glass of

milk a half hour before, this usually helps, except on days where my glucose

metabolism is being particularly screwed up.

But ALL of these things should NOT lead to sleepiness during the middle of

the day. They all help you sleep when you need sleep, but none of them *cause*

sleepiness. They are just giving your body what it needs when it is deficient.

Your body knows, on the other hand, when to go to sleep.

People get sleepy after Thanksgiving, by the way, from overeating, not to

mention all the potatoes and yams and etc, etc. I'm sure if you replaced the

turkey with a roast beef and stuffed your belly till your belly button popped

out

you'd get sleepy on the beef too.

Chris

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Have you seen anything showing how much tryptophan is in milk? I

always thought the sleepiness was from more bioavaliable Ca and Mg.

I use a glass to help me sleep through the night all the time.

Lynn

> In a message dated 7/16/03 11:25:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> Idol@c... writes:

>

> > I don't even use milk at all anymore, just cream, so it's not the

carbs. A

> >

> > stew with a little tomato paste probably has more carbs, and that

doesn't

> > knock me out or mess with my blood sugar. I just think some

people don't

> > do as well with dairy as others.

>

> Probably. I was actually responding to Ann, I don't know why I

quoted your

> post, since I know you use cream and have tried half-cream kefir,

etc.

>

> But now I'm considering my response doesn't even make sense anyway,

since

> there's no reason raw milk would have a greater effect on blood

sugar than

> pasterurized milk. I guess it might make sense that more trytophan

would be

> available, but I'm not sure why that would make one sleepy in the

middle of the day.

>

> Chris

>

>

>

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In a message dated 7/17/03 11:28:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

annbekins@... writes:

> No, raw milk has no different effect on blood sugar than pasteurized (I

> know because I am diabetic and check my blood sugar every time I eat!) But in

> looking back I realize that I didn't have this reaction the first few weeks on

> raw milk, only during the last week or two -- and I have not been getting my

> 8 hours recently. so I think your comment about only getting sleepy when

> needing sleep is probably accurate.

Or blood sugar. Someone posted a study a while back that found that not

sleeping enough has a big impact on glucose metabolism. I've also noticed that

my

blood sugar is much less stable if I get deficient sleep.

Chris

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In a message dated 7/17/03 5:52:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

wanitawa@... writes:

> Last Sunday seeing it was cooler decided to roast an 18 lb.turkey. Ended up

> a

> full but not extreme day between that, getting 8 quarts of strawberries into

> freezer, making strawberry cheesecake, and picking some blueberries. Had raw

> milk, all dark meat, butternut squash with butter and cheesecake. Woke up

> next

> morning at 8 realizing I'd slept 10 hours. Don't remember ever doing that.

> Probably not since before I was 10 when we had raw milk along with turkey.

That makes sense with what I said, unless you were unusually sleepy following

the meal in the early evening, and you didn't overeat. Most people eat

Thanksgiving dinner in the afternoon I think, and I agree trytophan would help

you

sleep by increasing your seratonin around when you are sleeping. Just don't

think it would help you sleep in the middle of the day. Could be wrong but

this is what I've read from psych class and elsewhere.

Chris

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Heidi,

If I go hypoglycemic, the only thing that helps is to eat something.

Although sometimes it seems to instantaneously rise to normal. This usually

happens

when I come right to the verge of passing out standing up, suddenly I get big

jolt. I imagine my adrenals are secreting cortisol or some hormone in

response to the low blood sugar that either raises my blood sugar or makes up

for it

in some other way.

I want to read more on cortisol but so far I am aware that cortisol raises

with no sleep and decreases with exercise. I assume raising with less sleep is

the same reason it raises with low blood sugar-- because both put stress on

the body. But I'm also pretty sure that when I get less sleep my blood sugar

problems are blood sugar problems, not symptoms mimicing it from high cortisol.

And someone posted a study that found just that-- that low sleep affects

carbohydrate metabolism-- to this list a few months ago.

Chris

In a message dated 7/18/03 7:33:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Yes! The whole cortisol connection thing. What we feel as " low blood sugar "

> of often " high cortisol " -- I proved this to myself with a blood sugar

> meter. When I felt hypoglycemic, my blood sugar was actually HIGH!

> When the blood sugar *starts* to drop, the body produces cortisol

> to counteract that, and sometimes it produces too much, and the

> shakiness etc. is from the cortisol.

>

> But ... you get too much cortisol from lack of sleep and stress too.

> And allergies and other food reactions.

>

> BTW I have found that doing slow weight lifting or yoga DOES

> stop the " cortisol shakes " , maybe by " using up " the cortisol

> or something (cortisol is meant for running away for sabertooth

> tigers or some other physical action -- so exercise tends to

> get rid of it).

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

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In a message dated 7/18/03 7:50:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@...

writes:

> What MacJeffries MD found was hypoglycemia was low cortisol. All

> his hypoglycemic patients had low adrenal reserve, meaning the adrenals

> couldn't produce enough. My hypoglycemia is definitely better since being

> on cortisone. The book is " The safe Uses of Cortisol " . Kind of a heavy read

> but definitely interesting.

My understanding is this is because the adrenals secrete cortisol in response

to low blood sugar, due to the stress low blood sugar puts on the body, which

leads to high cortisol levels, which eventually leads to adrenal exhaustion

and low cortisol by putting to much stress on the adrenals to catch up.

So that would make hypoglycemia the cause of low cortisol, not low cortisol

the cause of hypoglycemia. So wouldn't taking cortisone be hitting the problem

rather superficially, and wouldn't that prolong or prevent independent

adrenal health?

Chris

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Irene,

You're probably right, as having hypoglycemia probably puts so much stress on

the body that it is in itself preventing you from getting better. So taking

anything to superficially correct the hypoglycemia probably gives your body a

rest so it can do some repair work. Just like if you're sick and the symptoms

are so bad that you can't sleep, you're probably better off taking the

NyQuill because sleep is so important. Althought I don't think I've taken any

cold

medications for at least 6 or 7 years.

Chris

In a message dated 7/18/03 10:32:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@...

writes:

> I can't say for sure which comes first. There are many things that can

> cause adrenal suppression besides hypoglycemia. A chiropractor once told my

> that he thought mine was caused by radiation treatments. Who knows. But

> once you have it you are likely to be hypoglycemic.

>

> It is definitely better to fix the adrenal problem rather than supplement

> with cortisol, but after over a year of trying with diet and supplements

> and still having low cortisol I decided to supplement. It is working well

> for me. I don't think supplementing prolongs the problem any more than

> supplementing with thyroid prolongs a thyroid problem. In fact I have been

> able to reduce my dose of cortisol as my health has improved. But for sure

> people should try and fix the adrenal problem if they can before doing

> cortisol. It is just that sometimes it isn't so easy.

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

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In a message dated 7/18/03 10:37:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@...

writes:

> Actually, I also think that candida can attack the adrenals and cause

> adrenal insufficiency. But I can't remember where I read that one. Probably

> in one of the multitude of candida books.

>

I read this on Russ Newman's site <A

HREF= " www.naturalhealingsolutions.com " >www.naturalhealingsolutions.com</A> He's

posted to the list a couple times.

I wasn't saying there weren't other causes of hypoadrenia, I was just

addressing the chicken-or-the-egg question in regards to hypoglycemia.

Of course both candida and hypoglycemia are often caused by the same thing--

sugar, or maybe starch too.

Chris

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At 03:29 PM 7/18/2003, you wrote:

>Or blood sugar. Someone posted a study a while back that found that not

>sleeping enough has a big impact on glucose metabolism. I've also noticed that

my

>blood sugar is much less stable if I get deficient sleep.

>

>Chris

Yes! The whole cortisol connection thing. What we feel as " low blood sugar "

of often " high cortisol " -- I proved this to myself with a blood sugar

meter. When I felt hypoglycemic, my blood sugar was actually HIGH!

When the blood sugar *starts* to drop, the body produces cortisol

to counteract that, and sometimes it produces too much, and the

shakiness etc. is from the cortisol.

But ... you get too much cortisol from lack of sleep and stress too.

And allergies and other food reactions.

BTW I have found that doing slow weight lifting or yoga DOES

stop the " cortisol shakes " , maybe by " using up " the cortisol

or something (cortisol is meant for running away for sabertooth

tigers or some other physical action -- so exercise tends to

get rid of it).

-- Heidi

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What MacJeffries MD found was hypoglycemia was low cortisol. All

his hypoglycemic patients had low adrenal reserve, meaning the adrenals

couldn't produce enough. My hypoglycemia is definitely better since being

on cortisone. The book is " The safe Uses of Cortisol " . Kind of a heavy read

but definitely interesting.

Irene

At 04:34 PM 7/18/03, you wrote:

>At 03:29 PM 7/18/2003, you wrote:

> >Or blood sugar. Someone posted a study a while back that found that not

> >sleeping enough has a big impact on glucose metabolism. I've also

> noticed that my

> >blood sugar is much less stable if I get deficient sleep.

> >

> >Chris

>

>Yes! The whole cortisol connection thing. What we feel as " low blood sugar "

>of often " high cortisol " -- I proved this to myself with a blood sugar

>meter. When I felt hypoglycemic, my blood sugar was actually HIGH!

>When the blood sugar *starts* to drop, the body produces cortisol

>to counteract that, and sometimes it produces too much, and the

>shakiness etc. is from the cortisol.

>

>But ... you get too much cortisol from lack of sleep and stress too.

>And allergies and other food reactions.

>

>BTW I have found that doing slow weight lifting or yoga DOES

>stop the " cortisol shakes " , maybe by " using up " the cortisol

>or something (cortisol is meant for running away for sabertooth

>tigers or some other physical action -- so exercise tends to

>get rid of it).

>

>-- Heidi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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I can't say for sure which comes first. There are many things that can

cause adrenal suppression besides hypoglycemia. A chiropractor once told my

that he thought mine was caused by radiation treatments. Who knows. But

once you have it you are likely to be hypoglycemic.

It is definitely better to fix the adrenal problem rather than supplement

with cortisol, but after over a year of trying with diet and supplements

and still having low cortisol I decided to supplement. It is working well

for me. I don't think supplementing prolongs the problem any more than

supplementing with thyroid prolongs a thyroid problem. In fact I have been

able to reduce my dose of cortisol as my health has improved. But for sure

people should try and fix the adrenal problem if they can before doing

cortisol. It is just that sometimes it isn't so easy.

Irene

At 07:15 PM 7/18/03, you wrote:

>So that would make hypoglycemia the cause of low cortisol, not low cortisol

>the cause of hypoglycemia. So wouldn't taking cortisone be hitting the

>problem

>rather superficially, and wouldn't that prolong or prevent independent

>adrenal health?

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Actually, I also think that candida can attack the adrenals and cause

adrenal insufficiency. But I can't remember where I read that one. Probably

in one of the multitude of candida books.

Irene

At 07:15 PM 7/18/03, you wrote:

>In a message dated 7/18/03 7:50:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@...

>writes:

>

> > What MacJeffries MD found was hypoglycemia was low cortisol. All

> > his hypoglycemic patients had low adrenal reserve, meaning the adrenals

> > couldn't produce enough. My hypoglycemia is definitely better since being

> > on cortisone. The book is " The safe Uses of Cortisol " . Kind of a heavy

> read

> > but definitely interesting.

>

>My understanding is this is because the adrenals secrete cortisol in response

>to low blood sugar, due to the stress low blood sugar puts on the body, which

>leads to high cortisol levels, which eventually leads to adrenal exhaustion

>and low cortisol by putting to much stress on the adrenals to catch up.

>

>So that would make hypoglycemia the cause of low cortisol, not low cortisol

>the cause of hypoglycemia. So wouldn't taking cortisone be hitting the

>problem

>rather superficially, and wouldn't that prolong or prevent independent

>adrenal health?

>

>Chris

>

>

>

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Well that has certainly been the case with me. In his book Dr, Mck.

Jefferies even supplements people with very mild insufficiency for that

very reason. To take the stress off the adrenals so they can repair. And

some people are able to get off the cortisol in time. I am hoping I will too.

It is funny, I never take cold medications or any of that stuff either but

I am taking the dreaded cortisone, albeit in very low doses.

Irene

At 07:38 PM 7/18/03, you wrote:

>Irene,

>

>You're probably right, as having hypoglycemia probably puts so much stress on

>the body that it is in itself preventing you from getting better. So taking

>anything to superficially correct the hypoglycemia probably gives your body a

>rest so it can do some repair work. Just like if you're sick and the

>symptoms

>are so bad that you can't sleep, you're probably better off taking the

>NyQuill because sleep is so important. Althought I don't think I've taken

>any cold

>medications for at least 6 or 7 years.

>

>Chris

>

>In a message dated 7/18/03 10:32:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@...

>writes:

>

> > I can't say for sure which comes first. There are many things that can

> > cause adrenal suppression besides hypoglycemia. A chiropractor once

> told my

> > that he thought mine was caused by radiation treatments. Who knows. But

> > once you have it you are likely to be hypoglycemic.

> >

> > It is definitely better to fix the adrenal problem rather than supplement

> > with cortisol, but after over a year of trying with diet and supplements

> > and still having low cortisol I decided to supplement. It is working well

> > for me. I don't think supplementing prolongs the problem any more than

> > supplementing with thyroid prolongs a thyroid problem. In fact I have been

> > able to reduce my dose of cortisol as my health has improved. But for sure

> > people should try and fix the adrenal problem if they can before doing

> > cortisol. It is just that sometimes it isn't so easy.

>

>

> " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

>to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

>servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

>Roosevelt

>

>

>

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>Heidi,

>

>If I go hypoglycemic, the only thing that helps is to eat something.

>Although sometimes it seems to instantaneously rise to normal. This usually

happens

>when I come right to the verge of passing out standing up, suddenly I get big

>jolt. I imagine my adrenals are secreting cortisol or some hormone in

>response to the low blood sugar that either raises my blood sugar or makes up

for it

>in some other way.

I have the same symptoms, and in fact I've passed out in the past. What got

me going on this was that I started to pass out while giving birth, and

told the doc " oh, my blood sugar is dropping! " . Being the curious type,

he took a blood sugar test immediately and said " no, it is not, it's fine " and

gave me a shot of epinephrine (which worked great!).

Sooooo, I started testing

my OWN blood sugar when I was feeling faint, and guess what? It wasn't low. In

fact, it was HIGHER than normal.

Which is not to say that it isn't low for other people -- but some researchers

put a catheter

in some subjects and found that often the blood sugar drops suddenly, but only

for 10 minutes or so, then a jolt of cortisol brings the blood sugar back UP.

But

then the person keeps feeling bad, because of the cortisol. A lump of sugar

causes

insulin to be secreted, which counteracts the cortisol and then the person

feels better.

Again, I can't measure cortisol directly so I'm guessing. Mainly I'm trying

things

that counteract cortisol though, and they seem to work, so it is a good working

theory at this point.

>I want to read more on cortisol but so far I am aware that cortisol raises

>with no sleep and decreases with exercise. I assume raising with less sleep is

>the same reason it raises with low blood sugar-- because both put stress on

>the body. But I'm also pretty sure that when I get less sleep my blood sugar

>problems are blood sugar problems, not symptoms mimicing it from high cortisol.

>And someone posted a study that found just that-- that low sleep affects

>carbohydrate metabolism-- to this list a few months ago.

Right. ANYTHING that stresses you out causes more cortisol secretion. AND it

messes

up your blood sugar. And a messed up blood sugar causes more cortisol secretion.

And more cortisol messes up your blood sugar. Vicious cycle! But the

recommendations --

more rest, destressors, not fasting, exercise -- seem to work in any case.

Interestingly, I FORCED myself to work out for 20 minutes when my " blood sugar "

was

really low and I felt lousy -- and after 20 minutes I was back to normal. Also I

have

done physical exercise all day with zero food and done fine -- actually living

off

fat stores, like you are supposed to. There is *something* that blocks the fat

stores

from being used for energy. Cortisol fits the description, but I don't know

enough

to say for sure. At any rate, a certain level of physical exercise seems to

release it ...

Also interestingly ... I've been taking enzymes for the last couple of days, as

an experiment, and it seems so far that they REALLY have stabilized my blood

sugar issues. Also my appetite is less and my energy is greater. Maybe digesting

your food better helps? Less stress on the body? More nutrients?

-- Heidi

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Heidi,

Sooooo, I started testing

> my OWN blood sugar when I was feeling faint, and guess what? It wasn't low.

> In

> fact, it was HIGHER than normal.

>

How do I get my hands on something that can test my blood sugar?

> Which is not to say that it isn't low for other people -- but some

> researchers put a catheter

> in some subjects and found that often the blood sugar drops suddenly, but

> only

> for 10 minutes or so, then a jolt of cortisol brings the blood sugar back

> UP. But

> then the person keeps feeling bad, because of the cortisol. A lump of sugar

> causes

> insulin to be secreted, which counteracts the cortisol and then the person

> feels better.

That seems to fit the description for me. Only if I take a lump of sugar my

blood sugar crashes again in 15-20 minutes. This happens even if it's just

one of those packets of sugar usually. Those are I think only a half teaspoon.

Chris

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> In a message dated 7/17/03 11:28:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> annbekins@y... writes:

> so I think your comment about only getting sleepy when

> > needing sleep is probably accurate.

>

> Or blood sugar. Someone posted a study a while back that found that

not

> sleeping enough has a big impact on glucose metabolism. I've also

noticed that my

> blood sugar is much less stable if I get deficient sleep.

>

> Chris

No, not blood sugar. I am an insulin-dependent diabetic, so whenever

I feel funky I check my blood sugar and rule that out as a cause

before I consider any other explanations.

As far as lack of sleep affecting blood sugar, BTW, ANY kind of stress

can affect it, usually making it go higher than normal.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest guest

>>I just started drinking raw milk about three months ago. It is sweeter

than the pasteurized milk I get in the store, but that could be because it

is from Guernsey and Jersey cows, not Holstein. <<<<

----->lol. there's been a lot of thread drift lately. that question was

posted to beyondprice :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

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