Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 In a message dated 7/2/03 10:40:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, s.fisher22@... writes: > 3. chris' roasted potatoes: they were quartered and baked in about 8 Tbsps. > lard and an equal amount of olive oil, or thereabouts, i think. i believe he > also put some garlic or other spices on. > Less olive oil than lard by my guess but I didn't measure. I minced about 6 or 8 cloves of fresh garlic, and cut up fresh rosemary and parsley, some cracked dried black pepper and salt. > 4. fish cake's that chris' friends wayne and tracy brought. i don't know > where they got the recipe - maybe chris knows. they also used bass. > No idea. Good though. Especially reheated in a teaspoon of lard. > a good time was had by all. thanks lierre for having us! :-) thanks from me too! :-) chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 see comments below On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:46:51 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > > 1. wanita's ceviche. it's a raw fish recipe that i think she might have > gotten from NT...wanita? funny thing is, even as i was eating it i didn't > realize the fish was raw :-) it had been marinated in lime (or key lime?) > and that seems to almost make it taste cooked, like soaking raw liver in > lemon juice, which seems to have the same effect. but it was so much moister > than cooked fish, which made it more appealing, imo. in any case, it was > really yummy. i think she used bass for the fish. > Hi Suze, LOL! You mean to tell me that you didn't know that a lime or lemon marinade will " cook " the meat? Now that I find hard to believe :-) I love raw fish that way, and no it doesn't seem " raw " at all. It is the only way I will eat raw chicken, and it has the same effect, turning the meat white and making it looked as if it has been cooked. Makes for a very tasty chicken salad. Talking about raw meats, I had a first of sorts last week. I have been into nutrition and health since I was 22 or so. My parents have seen me ingest nearly everything raw: milk, cheese, eggs, seafood (I think), and everything from the vegetable kingdom. But they have never seen me eat raw meat (this isn't unusual - I dated a woman once for over a year who never saw me eat raw meat - even though I ate it all the time). They have read some of my articles talking about it, but had never witnessed me doing it. Well last week I was at their house and I was hungry. There were only two things worth eating, some good bread that I had brought with me, and a chuck steak sitting in the fridge. So I took the bread, slathered it with some butter and put some tomato and onions on it. I then sliced up the chuck steak and pounded thin each piece. My dad asked me what I was going to do with the meat and I cryptically said, " eat it. " I knew what he was getting at but I wanted to avoid any discussion, at least until I had finished eating. So put a little sea salt on the meat, piled the slices high on the bread, made a sandwich and ate it. My dad looked over and said, " you are eating that raw?! " The look on his face was priceless. I'm sure he thought I had flipped and it took a ton of self-control for him not to say anything. I think the reason he didn't was we had just finished listening to a radio interview I had done on health and nutrition. I don't think he even wanted to hear that there might be *some* plausible benefit to what I was doing. No sireeeeeeeeee. Not raw meat! It was all I could do to keep from laughing <weg> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 > 1. wanita's ceviche. it's a raw fish recipe that i think she might have > gotten from NT...wanita? funny thing is, even as i was eating it i didn't > realize the fish was raw :-) it had been marinated in lime (or key lime?) > and that seems to almost make it taste cooked, like soaking raw liver in > lemon juice, which seems to have the same effect. but it was so much moister > than cooked fish, which made it more appealing, imo. in any case, it was > really yummy. i think she used bass for the fish. > >>>>>Hi Suze, LOL! You mean to tell me that you didn't know that a lime or lemon marinade will " cook " the meat? Now that I find hard to believe :-) ------>lol! i just wasn't thinking about it. my plate was full of food with all the juices mixing and i was talking a lot (shocking, i'm sure) so it just didn't register. after having eaten the cevich now though, i think it would be difficult to eat cooked fish unless it were underdone so that it was as juicy as wanita's ceviche. >>>>So put a little sea salt on the meat, piled the slices high on the bread, made a sandwich and ate it. My dad looked over and said, " you are eating that raw?! " The look on his face was priceless. I'm sure he thought I had flipped and it took a ton of self-control for him not to say anything. I think the reason he didn't was we had just finished listening to a radio interview I had done on health and nutrition. I don't think he even wanted to hear that there might be *some* plausible benefit to what I was doing. No sireeeeeeeeee. Not raw meat! It was all I could do to keep from laughing <weg> -------->haha! funny...maybe you could feed him some ceviche but don't tell him it's raw....get him talking, distract him...he'd never know! lol. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 In a message dated 7/3/03 5:56:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, s.fisher22@... writes: > after having eaten the cevich now though, i think it > would be difficult to eat cooked fish unless it were underdone so that it > was as juicy as wanita's ceviche. the way to do this is to bake it in a toaster oven. not sure why, but probably the moisture has too much room to evaporate in a regular oven, but it's *impossible* to cook juicy fish in a regular oven like you can in a toaster oven. poke holes in it, butter a toaster oven pan, cut slices of butter thinly and cover the entire piece of fish, then sprinkle with parsley, salt and pepper, and whatever other spices desired. Cook at 300F for 15 or twenty minutes. This is a great salmon recipe. Other fishes like cod just need to be fried, because they don't taste right like this (although they unavoidably lose their moisture if fried). Whenever I make salmon like this it comes out very, very juicy, far juicy than I can achive cooking it any other way. After I started doing so, I found broiled salmon very unappealing because it has so much less moisture. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:02:16 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > > >>>>So put a little sea salt on the meat, piled the slices high on the > bread, > made a sandwich and ate it. My dad looked over and said, " you are > eating that raw?! " The look on his face was priceless. I'm sure he > thought I had flipped and it took a ton of self-control for him not to > say anything. I think the reason he didn't was we had just finished > listening to a radio interview I had done on health and nutrition. I > don't think he even wanted to hear that there might be *some* plausible > benefit to what I was doing. No sireeeeeeeeee. Not raw meat! > > It was all I could do to keep from laughing <weg> > > -------->haha! funny...maybe you could feed him some ceviche but don't tell > him it's raw....get him talking, distract him...he'd never know! lol. > Ah evil minds think alike, LOL. Its already been done. Made some chicken salad and brought it over and everybody scarfed it down like there was no tomorrow. Marinated raw chicken, raw mayo, I mean they had no idea what was tasting so good to them would have been so repugnant if they had known how it was actually prepared. Did the same with a tuna salad. Have done it with heart (shredded in a regular salad). Little did they know and as long as it tasted good why burst their bubble? :-) To my dad and mom's credit, they both love raw milk and some raw cheeses, although unless I buy them they won't go out of their way to pick them up. But boy were they surprised that their son was being interviewed about stuff they thought was quite extreme 20 years ago when I started on this journey. So there may be some hope after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Suze, Used NT's Latin American Raw Fish Salad (ceviche) recipe on page 240. Used key lime juice instead of lime. Cooked opaque in 12 hours. Was over 24 hours when we ate it. Recipe says 12-36 hours. Followed rest of recipe except locally caught striped bass was substituted for Chilean sea bass. Wanita >> 1. wanita's ceviche. it's a raw fish recipe that i think she might have >> gotten from NT...wanita? funny thing is, even as i was eating it i didn't >> realize the fish was raw :-) it had been marinated in lime (or key lime?) >> and that seems to almost make it taste cooked, like soaking raw liver in >> lemon juice, which seems to have the same effect. but it was so much >moister >> than cooked fish, which made it more appealing, imo. in any case, it was >> really yummy. i think she used bass for the fish. >> > > >>>>>>Hi Suze, > >LOL! You mean to tell me that you didn't know that a lime or lemon >marinade will " cook " the meat? Now that I find hard to believe :-) > > >------>lol! i just wasn't thinking about it. my plate was full of food with >all the juices mixing and i was talking a lot (shocking, i'm sure) so it >just didn't register. after having eaten the cevich now though, i think it >would be difficult to eat cooked fish unless it were underdone so that it >was as juicy as wanita's ceviche. > > > >>>>>So put a little sea salt on the meat, piled the slices high on the >bread, >made a sandwich and ate it. My dad looked over and said, " you are >eating that raw?! " The look on his face was priceless. I'm sure he >thought I had flipped and it took a ton of self-control for him not to >say anything. I think the reason he didn't was we had just finished >listening to a radio interview I had done on health and nutrition. I >don't think he even wanted to hear that there might be *some* plausible >benefit to what I was doing. No sireeeeeeeeee. Not raw meat! > >It was all I could do to keep from laughing <weg> > >-------->haha! funny...maybe you could feed him some ceviche but don't tell >him it's raw....get him talking, distract him...he'd never know! lol. > > > >Suze Fisher >Lapdog Design, Inc. >Web Design & Development ><http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/>http://members.bellatlantic.ne t/~vze3shjg/ ><mailto:s.fisher22@...>mailto:s.fisher22@... > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 >). Whenever I make salmon like this it comes out very, very >juicy, far juicy than I can achive cooking it any other way. After I started >doing so, I found broiled salmon very unappealing because it has so much less >moisture. > >Chris Someone turned me on to " oven fried salmon " . Basically they dredged the salmon in seasoned flour, put a bit of butter on top, and baked it. Wow! It was great! -- we eat salmon a lot but that little bit of flour and butter really did it. She does that with flounder too. Needless to mention, I was using sorghum flour, but I think any flour would work. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote: > Someone turned me on to " oven fried salmon " . Basically they dredged the salmon in seasoned flour, put a bit of butter on top, and baked it. Wow! It was great! -- we eat salmon a lot but that little bit of flour and butter really did it. She does that with flounder too. Needless to mention, I was using sorghum flour, but I think any flour would work. The same works great for stir-frying. And a similar recipe with pork instead of fish and eggs added to the flour produces very tasty meal too (for stir-frying). Roman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 >>>>the way to do this is to bake it in a toaster oven. not sure why, but probably the moisture has too much room to evaporate in a regular oven, but it's *impossible* to cook juicy fish in a regular oven like you can in a toaster oven. poke holes in it, butter a toaster oven pan, cut slices of butter thinly and cover the entire piece of fish, then sprinkle with parsley, salt and pepper, and whatever other spices desired. Cook at 300F for 15 or twenty minutes. This is a great salmon recipe. Other fishes like cod just need to be fried, because they don't taste right like this (although they unavoidably lose their moisture if fried). Whenever I make salmon like this it comes out very, very juicy, far juicy than I can achive cooking it any other way. After I started doing so, I found broiled salmon very unappealing because it has so much less moisture. --------------->thanks, i might try that some time. i don't think there'll be an wild salmon available here til next year unfortunately, though. i might try the ceviche with haddock, which i can get fresh in portland. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 >>>>Used NT's Latin American Raw Fish Salad (ceviche) recipe on page 240. Used key lime juice instead of lime. Cooked opaque in 12 hours. Was over 24 hours when we ate it. Recipe says 12-36 hours. Followed rest of recipe except locally caught striped bass was substituted for Chilean sea bass. ----->wanita, did you freeze the fish first, or was it fresh? also, did you use whey or not? i would like to make this recipe with fresh haddock. does anyone know if it's OK to eat *haddock* fresh without freezing to kill parasites or whatever it is NT recommends? (michael/slethno i think i know your response...;-) Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 >>Ah evil minds think alike, LOL. Its already been done. Made some chicken salad and brought it over and everybody scarfed it down like there was no tomorrow. Marinated raw chicken, raw mayo, I mean they had no idea what was tasting so good to them would have been so repugnant if they had known how it was actually prepared. Did the same with a tuna salad. Have done it with heart (shredded in a regular salad). Little did they know and as long as it tasted good why burst their bubble? :-) ----->oh, you devil, you!! way ta go!! LOL. >>>>To my dad and mom's credit, they both love raw milk and some raw cheeses, although unless I buy them they won't go out of their way to pick them up. But boy were they surprised that their son was being interviewed about stuff they thought was quite extreme 20 years ago when I started on this journey. So there may be some hope after all. ------>would love to see one of your articles... Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Suze, >----->wanita, did you freeze the fish first, or was it fresh? also, did you >use whey or not? It had been frozen just about two weeks. Did use whey. >i would like to make this recipe with fresh haddock. does anyone know if >it's OK to eat *haddock* fresh without freezing to kill parasites or >whatever it is NT recommends? (michael/slethno i think i know your >response...;-) Haddock should fit this recipe fine being of same consistency as bass. Did buy haddock years ago fresh, cooked it that night and found worms in it. Bleck! Pretty sure the hot months, July, August are when the parasites are highest. I'd freeze just for peace of mind if nothing else. The citrus may kill them. I did double wrap the bass to retain moisture in freezer. Used a freezer film wrap and freezer paper. Wanita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 NT says marinating in acid kills the parasites in fish. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Suze, I would be happy to send one along. I am currently editing them for my upcoming ezine so it may be several weeks. Actually the radio interview resulted from an elegy I wrote about war. More specifically about the death of Edwin Starr, the singer of the most well known anti-war anthem of our generation, WAR. It was the author bio at the bottom of the article that caught their attention, since it mentioned the health book I'm working on. So I will send it to you with one caveat, that you will still be my cyberfriend after reading it <weg>. Seriously, if you were/are pro-war you may not find it very edifying. Some folks have a hard time agreeing to disagree on issues of this nature. On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:25:07 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > ------>would love to see one of your articles... > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Okay, then I won't go into a long dissertation about the benefits of parasites, LOL! But salmon is one fish I won't eat without " cooking " it in marinade. I always seem to have a reaction if I eat it in appreciable quantities fresh raw (as opposed to marinaded or frozen " rotten " ). Someone on one of the other lists gave an explanation for this, but I don't remember, and I did this awhile ago so maybe things would be different now. I'm in no hurry to find out. > i would like to make this recipe with fresh haddock. does anyone know if > it's OK to eat *haddock* fresh without freezing to kill parasites or > whatever it is NT recommends? (michael/slethno i think i know your > response...;-) > > > > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 >>>Okay, then I won't go into a long dissertation about the benefits of parasites, LOL! ---->lol! the thing is i never know which parasites may be beneficial and which may not be, or if i'm i'm thinking about this all wrong in the first place. the first time i posted to this list it was about beneficial helminths - those that were used to treat IBD and some other gut disease, i think. so i always have that in the back of my mind, that all may not be what it appears in regards to " parasites " . but i'm still confused about this issue. which reminds me, i'd like to read one of aajonus' books - he discusses this issue, right? question: which book would you recommend? i *am* interested in recipes, but you know me - i want concepts and sources...would the first book be better for that? are either of the books well-referenced? i thought i'd heard something about the first one not actually having many references or something to that effect. even so, i want to become familiar with his approach to nutrition. >>>>But salmon is one fish I won't eat without " cooking " it in marinade. I always seem to have a reaction if I eat it in appreciable quantities fresh raw (as opposed to marinaded or frozen " rotten " ). ------>hmmm....OK, thanks for mentioning that. i think i'd do the marinade anyways. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 >>>>I would be happy to send one along. I am currently editing them for my upcoming ezine so it may be several weeks. ----->that would be great! thanks :-) >>>>>Actually the radio interview resulted from an elegy I wrote about war. More specifically about the death of Edwin Starr, the singer of the most well known anti-war anthem of our generation, WAR. It was the author bio at the bottom of the article that caught their attention, since it mentioned the health book I'm working on. So I will send it to you with one caveat, that you will still be my cyberfriend after reading it <weg>. -------->bet! >>>>>Seriously, if you were/are pro-war you may not find it very edifying. Some folks have a hard time agreeing to disagree on issues of this nature. --------->me? " pro-war " ? lol! looking forward to reading it. :-) Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 see comments below On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:54:14 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > >>>Okay, then I won't go into a long dissertation about the benefits of > parasites, LOL! > > ---->lol! the thing is i never know which parasites may be beneficial and > which may not be, or if i'm i'm thinking about this all wrong in the first > place. the first time i posted to this list it was about beneficial > helminths - those that were used to treat IBD and some other gut disease, i > think. so i always have that in the back of my mind, that all may not be > what it appears in regards to " parasites " . but i'm still confused about this > issue. which reminds me, i'd like to read one of aajonus' books - he > discusses this issue, right? question: which book would you recommend? i > *am* interested in recipes, but you know me - i want concepts and > sources...would the first book be better for that? are either of the books > well-referenced? i thought i'd heard something about the first one not > actually having many references or something to that effect. even so, i want > to become familiar with his approach to nutrition. LOL! You should read both his books. The second, IMO, is better than the first, but neither is at all well referenced. Plus to get a feel for AV you need to read his books, read his interviews, and listen to his tapes. The Primal Diet can not be fully comprehended from his books. Knowing you Suze, you will struggle with his books. In some ways, for a number of reasons which I care not go into here, AV has some serious credibility issues, in my opinion. But he has helped a number of people. But as one gentleman on another list so forcefully and gleefully (it seems to me) pointed out, AV definitely has feet of clay at several points. Most of this could be resolved, IMO, if he would publish his references/research and some info on his client base that led to the writing of the book. So far, he is unwilling to do so. I wouldn't have a problem with this except that if you go into print, you should be willing to furnish your sources. Nevertheless, I found a good chunk of his material helpful, even though I was following a lot of his protocol long before I ever heard of him. And of course he demonizes grains and cooked foods, neither of which I am willing to follow him. I do appreciate the fact that he doesn't dismiss grains on paleo grounds, since I am extremely skeptical of the *science* behind the paleo approach, but that is another issue. And he demonizes fasting, which I find very strange, since he made his great diet discovery while...you guessed it...fasting. Nonetheless, I think he provides a necessary corrective to many Native Nutrition folks who gag at the thought of raw animal foods, something which is a distinctive of Dr. Price's work and observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 > ---->lol! the thing is i never know which parasites may be beneficial and > which may not be, or if i'm i'm thinking about this all wrong in the first > place. the first time i posted to this list it was about beneficial > helminths - those that were used to treat IBD and some other gut disease, i > think. so i always have that in the back of my mind, that all may not be > what it appears in regards to " parasites " . but i'm still confused about this > issue. which reminds me, i'd like to read one of aajonus' books - he > discusses this issue, right? question: which book would you recommend? i > *am* interested in recipes, but you know me - i want concepts and > sources...would the first book be better for that? are either of the books > well-referenced? i thought i'd heard something about the first one not > actually having many references or something to that effect. even so, i want > to become familiar with his approach to nutrition. >>>>LOL! You should read both his books. The second, IMO, is better than the first, but neither is at all well referenced. ---->ok, one of the chapter leaders recommended this one to me too, and i've got it at the top of my list. especially since i've been eating most of my meat raw lately and i'm getting tired of the same ol' recipes. thanks for offering your opinion on it :-) >>> Plus to get a feel for AV you need to read his books, read his interviews, and listen to his tapes. The Primal Diet can not be fully comprehended from his books. ----->okey dokes. >>>Knowing you Suze, you will struggle with his books. In some ways, for a number of reasons which I care not go into here, AV has some serious credibility issues, in my opinion. ----->i'm somewhat aware of that already, but perhaps not the full extent of it. there are some inaccurate claims in the los angeles raw milk report, which i had discussed with ron schmid this summer (whose new book on raw milk will be published this year :-) so that gave me maybe just a bit of an idea of what to expect from his books. >>>But he has helped a number of people. ----->right. i put quite a bit of stock in anecdotal information, too. i probably wouldn't be interested in his work if i didn't think some folks were having some degree of success with the diet. >>>>Most of this could be resolved, IMO, if he would publish his references/research and some info on his client base that led to the writing of the book. So far, he is unwilling to do so. I wouldn't have a problem with this except that if you go into print, you should be willing to furnish your sources. ---->i agree. >>>>>>Nonetheless, I think he provides a necessary corrective to many Native Nutrition folks who gag at the thought of raw animal foods, something which is a distinctive of Dr. Price's work and observations. ------>right. while i have no intention of becoming a primal dieter, i'm interested in recipes as i continue to tweak *my* optimal version of WAP/NT and am interested in the rationale for the approach. thanks for your feedback! Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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