Re: Re: kidneys (mine) remedies, and coffee

[Guest guest]

medwards706 wrote:

> I'm guessing it was already said 10 times, but: tea contains caffeine

> which among a lot of bad things, is a diruetic. Suggestions include

> not drinking anything with any caffeine in it, not drinking anything

> that stimulates the body or is a diruetic (many herbal teas affect

> me), and only drinking water or fruit/vegetable juice (maybe the

> sugar is bad, but won't cause these kinds of problems).

I've read that tea contains an amino acid (forgot its name) that seems to

counteract stimulating action of caffeine. It's even sold as a supplement.

Roman

[Guest guest]

Roman-

>I've read that tea contains an amino acid (forgot its name) that seems to

>counteract stimulating action of caffeine. It's even sold as a supplement.

Maybe, but tea doesn't contain much caffeine -- it mostly has theophylline,

and theophylline is actually more potent than caffeine -- and since it has

a definite stimulating effect, I'm not sure what difference that amino acid

makes.

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>Maybe, but tea doesn't contain much caffeine -- it mostly has

theophylline,

and theophylline is actually more potent than caffeine -- and since it has

a definite stimulating effect, I'm not sure what difference that amino acid

makes.

---->what about herbal " teas " which aren't technically *tea* even though

they're referred to as tea in common parlance? do they have theophylline?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

> Maybe, but tea doesn't contain much caffeine -- it mostly has theophylline,

> and theophylline is actually more potent than caffeine -- and since it has

> a definite stimulating effect, I'm not sure what difference that amino acid

> makes.

I remember reading that this amino acid stimulates alpha brain waves, which is a

calming effect, isn't it?

Roman

[Guest guest]

>Thanks Suze, and everyone who replied to this thread. I went and got

>some dried herbs: dandelion root, ginseng, licorice, and have been

>making a tea of them (sometimes with the dandelion, sometimes just the

>other two). Seems to be helping. I'm off coffee and tea now, and got

>out of bed a lot easier this morning.

Juniper Berries, Parsely, Ginger... also kidney herbs.

Bellanger

Melb, Oz

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[Guest guest]

Daphne-

>But do you have any references estrogen

>effects of those herbs? I'm taking both now, but my husband is

>adrenal stressed too.

I've read it many times, but here's the result of a quick google on the

subject.

>>Experimental studies also suggest that active compounds in licorice may

>>have estrogen-like effects.

>>Kumagai A, Nishino K, Shimomura A, et al. Effect of glycyrrhizin on

>>estrogen action. Endocrin Jpn. 1967;14(1):34–38.

http://www.healthandage.com/html/res/com/ConsHerbs/Licoricech.html

>>Ginseng may have estrogen-like activity.

>>Liu J, Burdette JE, Xu H, et al. Evaluation of estrogenic activity of

>>plant extracts for the potential treatment of menopausal symptoms. J

>>Agric Food Chem. 2001;49(5):2472-2479.

http://www.healthandage.com/html/res/com/ConsHerbs/GinsengAmericanch.html

As a man, I'm going to avoid both of those herbs like the plague, and I

suggest all men do the same. For women the picture is probably more

complicated, but remember that soy is often recommended for women because

of its estrogen-like effects (effects which somehow never get mentioned

when it comes time to recommend soy to men) and yet soy probably hurts more

than it helps because of its estrogen-like properties as well as in spite

of them, so I think caution is probably the order of the day.

-

[Guest guest]

Roman-

>I remember reading that this amino acid stimulates alpha brain waves,

>which is a calming effect, isn't it?

I think maybe you're missing the forest for the trees. Tea acts as a

stimulant. Therefore, regardless of whatever conflicting effects

individual tea components have, its net effect is stimulation.

-

[Guest guest]

Roman-

>>Therefore, regardless of whatever conflicting effects

>>individual tea components have, its net effect is stimulation.

Urk, I wound up phrasing that rather cicularly. What I mean is that since

tea's net effect is stimulatory, whatever calmative effect individual

components might have don't matter that much in the end because they're

obviously being outweighed by whatever stimulating chemicals tea contains

which cause tea's net effect to be stimulative rather than calmative.

-

[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

> Urk, I wound up phrasing that rather cicularly. What I mean is that since

> tea's net effect is stimulatory, whatever calmative effect individual

> components might have don't matter that much in the end because they're

> obviously being outweighed by whatever stimulating chemicals tea contains

> which cause tea's net effect to be stimulative rather than calmative.

I understand your logic.

For me, tea doesn't seem to have a pronounced stimulating effect. Not

unpleasantly so, anyway. I think I've read somewhere that some monks drink tea

during meditation to keep themselves alert. I think they consume ma huang too,

which is also stimulating. IF that is true, I thought drinking tea might not be

too bad for me. Tea has been drunk for a long time, hasn't it? But so has

coffee, I guess. Oh, well...

Roman

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>---->what about herbal " teas " which aren't technically *tea* even though

>they're referred to as tea in common parlance? do they have theophylline?

You mean like mint tea? AFAIK it contains no caffeine or caffeine

analogs. I don't think you can make a sweeping statement about all herbal

teas, so you'd have to investigate each one individually, but in general,

no, I don't imagine they contain stimulants.

-

[Guest guest]

Roman-

>For me, tea doesn't seem to have a pronounced stimulating effect. Not

>unpleasantly so, anyway. I think I've read somewhere that some monks drink

>tea during meditation to keep themselves alert.

Well, I don't know anything about the monks or their tea-drinking

tradition, but it's probably important to remember that coffee and tea are

addictive, which is to say the body becomes accustomed to their

effects. Many coffee addicts will be jittery UNTIL they drink their coffee.

>Tea has been drunk for a long time, hasn't it? But so has coffee, I guess.

>Oh, well...

I don't think the occasional (or even regular but infrequent) cup of coffee

or tea is a problem for most people, but I do tend to suspect that making a

habit of it is probably not a good idea for anyone.

-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/17/03 3:49:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jafasum@... writes:

> What about green teas that I've read are very high in antioxidants?

>

Green tea has a small amount of caffeine. Black as about a third of coffee,

green is pretty minimal, but don't remember exactly how much.I think maybe

about a third as much as black.

chris

[Guest guest]

>>>You mean like mint tea?

---->i mean like anything that's not camillia sinesis, which i've been told

is the only *true* tea. whereas herbal " teas " (like mint, ginseng,

dandelion, etc) are not. that's why i wondered if the herbal " teas " had

caffeine or similar compounds that might adversally affect the endocrine

system, since they are not really tea.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

What about green teas that I've read are very high in antioxidants?

Jafa

Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

>>>You mean like mint tea?

---->i mean like anything that's not camillia sinesis, which i've been told

is the only *true* tea. whereas herbal " teas " (like mint, ginseng,

dandelion, etc) are not. that's why i wondered if the herbal " teas " had

caffeine or similar compounds that might adversally affect the endocrine

system, since they are not really tea.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze,

>

>---->i mean like anything that's not camillia sinesis, which i've been told

>is the only *true* tea. whereas herbal " teas " (like mint, ginseng,

>dandelion, etc) are not. that's why i wondered if the herbal " teas " had

>caffeine or similar compounds that might adversally affect the endocrine

>system, since they are not really tea.

The only herbal tea ingredient I know that contains caffeine is yerba mate.

Some morning/herbal teas have black tea in them. AFAIK green tea blends have

caffeine too. Herbs that are worse for me than any caffeine and bother my

hypoglycemia are ephedra and goldenseal.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>that's why i wondered if the herbal " teas " had

>caffeine or similar compounds that might adversally affect the endocrine

>system, since they are not really tea.

Sure, some of them do. Ginseng is a stimulant, and possibly

contraindicated for that reason. But there are also other endocrine

effects to consider. As I mentioned before, ginseng and licorice (both

available as herbal teas) have estrogen-like effects and therefore should

be very carefully considered. Many herbs are physiologically active, and

many of the active ones are often prepared as tea.

-

[Guest guest]

>>Green tea has a small amount of caffeine. Black as about a third of

coffee,

green is pretty minimal, but don't remember exactly how much.I think maybe

about a third as much as black.

---->this page has a chart listing the mgs in various teas, as well as

coffee and cola. don't know how accurate it is, but does show green tea to

have half the caffeine as black tea.

http://www.stashtea.com/caffeine.htm

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>but does show green tea to

>have half the caffeine as black tea.

I'd say that's a pretty meaningful amount of caffeine. At least I know

green tea has always had a fairly strong effect on me.

-

[Guest guest]

>>>Many herbs are physiologically active, and

many of the active ones are often prepared as tea.

----->very true. but i'm wondering if they're so diluted in tea, that they

wouldn't have the same effect as they would in supplement form - such as a

tincture, powder, or something of that nature. ALL tea *seems* pretty

diluted to me - as if it were really a homepathic preparation of the herb.

<g> but i realize that may have nothing to do with how potent herbs in tea

are.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>ALL tea *seems* pretty

>diluted to me - as if it were really a homepathic preparation of the herb.

I have no hard data, but I think it would be a mistake to assume that an

herb is rendered safe by preparing it as a tea. Just look at how much of a

pick-me-up tea can be.

-

[Guest guest]

Wanita Sears wrote:

> The only herbal tea ingredient I know that contains caffeine is yerba mate.

Sellers of yerba mate claim it does NOT have caffeine.

Roman

[Guest guest]

ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote:

> Green tea has a small amount of caffeine. Black as about a third of coffee,

> green is pretty minimal, but don't remember exactly how much.I think maybe

> about a third as much as black.

>

> chris

Why would green tea have less caffeine than black? It's the same plant.

Roman

[Guest guest]

At 05:34 PM 6/17/03 -0400, wrote:

>>>>Many herbs are physiologically active, and

>many of the active ones are often prepared as tea.

Suze,

>----->very true. but i'm wondering if they're so diluted in tea, that they

>wouldn't have the same effect as they would in supplement form - such as a

>tincture, powder, or something of that nature. ALL tea *seems* pretty

>diluted to me - as if it were really a homepathic preparation of the herb.

><g> but i realize that may have nothing to do with how potent herbs in tea

>are.

Teas are very diluted in comparison to powdered capsules and tinctures. From

what I've read you're not going to get the medicinal effect unless you use

tincture (my last choice because its done in alcohol and the alkaloids it

extracts from some herbs) or whole herb capsules where your body breaks

down to

medicinal components. My reasoning for taking only one bottle of licorice root

to get relief for acute sugar addiction and hypoglycemia. With any herbal

tea a

therapeutic, medicinal dose is 3 cups a day. There are some herbs that have

lower physiological and medicinal effects like mint, tilia leaves, hibiscus,

citrus peels. They're added as fillers to a lot of commercial blends. If its a

root like licorice or ginseng and you pour boiling over it and let it set

you're getting the least if any medicinal quality from it. This infusion

method

is for above the earth parts. Root teas need to be decocted to get the

medicinal qualities to release. This is done by putting roots in pan of water

on stove, bringing water to boil and letting them sit covered in the boiled

water for at least 20 minutes. Use the infusion with my night cup of herb tea

no matter what is in the bag or teaball myself. Its the my feet up at the end

of the day with the tea. Wheather its going to do anything other than

psychological doesn't matter. Got to give you credit on the coffee. Don't like

tea or anything cold to eat or drink anytime of year so my choices and

substitutes are nil.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>>>>There are some herbs that have

lower physiological and medicinal effects like mint, tilia leaves, hibiscus,

citrus peels. They're added as fillers to a lot of commercial blends. If its

a

root like licorice or ginseng and you pour boiling over it and let it set

you're getting the least if any medicinal quality from it. This infusion

method

is for above the earth parts. Root teas need to be decocted to get the

medicinal qualities to release. This is done by putting roots in pan of

water

on stove, bringing water to boil and letting them sit covered in the boiled

water for at least 20 minutes. Use the infusion with my night cup of herb

tea

no matter what is in the bag or teaball myself. Its the my feet up at the

end

of the day with the tea. Wheather its going to do anything other than

psychological doesn't matter. Got to give you credit on the coffee. Don't

like

tea or anything cold to eat or drink anytime of year so my choices and

substitutes are nil.

---->thanks for the explanation wanita, i had forgotten about decoctions and

infusions, and had no idea that one method was used for above ground vs.

below ground parts. interesting.

well, i dont' miss coffee, oddly :0)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>Wanita Sears wrote:

>

>> The only herbal tea ingredient I know that contains caffeine is yerba mate.

Roman wrote:

>Sellers of yerba mate claim it does NOT have caffeine.

Front of my Guayaki Yerba Mate bag says naturally caffeinated. Website is

guayaki.com Go figure. The natural caffeine in coffee isn't added just

adjusted by roast length. Do agree that yerba mate is a healthier alternative

and is different than caffeine.

Wanita