Guest guest Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 ROD HI Death from susp trauma is generally not due to toxins, but through too much blood overstretching the heart and causing cardiac arrest when 1- 2 litres hits heart instantly the second pt is laid flat (I have done a bit of work on this and am working to get a bit of research published on this at the mo... Indeed JRCALC have asked me to write a guideline for Ambulance Management ) Tourniquets would I guess stop that reflow - stopping the overstretching of Starling curve - although not seen it done, However the toxins that are created generally cause death days weeks later by knackering kidneys.... not at point of injury Unfortunately the medical advice HSE etc doesnt advocate use of tourniquet in susp trauma, maybe we should explore further as a group... Have heard of tourniquet use in Crush syndrome but again - protracted time - i think.. Can I be nosey and ask which fire brigade Thanks Dave Halliwell Head of Education SWAST TQ use All I was talking to a chap who had been on a 'trauma' course with UK fire services and he was shown a technique for using TQs in the treatment of Suspension trauma (big ones on the legs, I think) to stop all those naughty toxins rushing back to the body. Anyone shed light on it? Rod PS: Merry Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 Dave Lancashire F & R. Not sure who the guy is who does the course for them but it does sound like it is full of 'gimmicks (FF like that sort of thing). > Can I be nosey and ask which fire brigade > > Thanks > > Dave Halliwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2006 Report Share Posted December 25, 2006 > > Dave > > Lancashire F & R. Not sure who the guy is who does the course for them but it > does sound like it is full of 'gimmicks (FF like that sort of thing). > > > Can I be nosey and ask which fire brigade > > > > Thanks > > > > Dave Halliwell > Hi Rod, As an instructor on this " gimmicky " course for FF's, I would be interested as to which " gimmicks " you are objecting too? (P.S I have also " done a bit " on harness induced pathology over the past 3 years, and have presented to te HSE, CITB, etc etc) Merry Christmas P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Who said I objected to it? Rod > As an instructor on this " gimmicky " course for FF's, I would be > interested as to which " gimmicks " you are objecting too? > > (P.S I have also " done a bit " on harness induced pathology over the > past 3 years, and have presented to te HSE, CITB, etc etc) > > Merry Christmas > > P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 > > > Who said I objected to it? > > Rod > > > > As an instructor on this " gimmicky " course for FF's, I would be > > interested as to which " gimmicks " you are objecting too? > > > > (P.S I have also " done a bit " on harness induced pathology over the > > past 3 years, and have presented to te HSE, CITB, etc etc) > > > > Merry Christmas > > > > P > Well if your not objecting to it, why accuse the course of being " gimmicky " on this public discussion group? I'm not trying to cause a problem, but would rather put any issues about the course content, or instructors that you have to bed. Kindest regards Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 > Well if your not objecting to it, why accuse the course of > being " gimmicky " on this public discussion group? > I'm not trying to cause a problem, but would rather put any issues > about the course content, or instructors that you have to bed. The part I was referring to was the over the top use of the gory pics that people like fire-fighters like to see. It is not a big criticism of the course, just a light hearted remark that you have obviously taken the wrong way. I am, as part of my role in life, a Fire Fighter and I was making a remark that was a little bit taking the wee wee out of myself, not you. So, wind your neck in. Rod PS A merry Christmas to you, to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 > Well if your not objecting to it, why accuse the course of > being " gimmicky " on this public discussion group? This group is set up for people to discuss all sorts of medical, remote & tactical issues and learn from them. Part of that process is to discuss training courses and course providers. That's what discussion groups are for, to discuss things. Phil, may I suggest that before you jump down someone's throat, you have the common courtesy of identifying yourself correctly? Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 > > > > Well if your not objecting to it, why accuse the course of > > being " gimmicky " on this public discussion group? > > > This group is set up for people to discuss all sorts of medical, remote & > tactical issues and learn from them. Part of that process is to discuss > training courses and course providers. > > That's what discussion groups are for, to discuss things. > > Phil, may I suggest that before you jump down someone's throat, you have the > common courtesy of identifying yourself correctly? > > Rod > Rod, I think you have the wrong end of the stick. I merely questioned your objections to a course that I instruct on. I politely offered to answer querys or comments on the course. I was then told to wind MY neck in, and was then accused of " jumping down peoples throats " The next comment then acused ME of having no common courtesy I hardly think youre setting an example of common courtesy to a new member with comments like this I appreciate that discussion forums are for discussing training and training providers amongst other issues, but lets discuss things properly knowing all of the facts before we decide to give judgement on courses that we may not have all of the facts for. Its supposed to be the season of goodwill to all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Admit it Theiir was a time where the TK was an oversold ( & deleterious) Gimmick Same as the $100 bullet wound kits sold to PD departments ! ! !)))) Safe to say The selling of the TK is more sober these days And I would not use word gimmick to qualify A jesture that, some times, may very well save a life Not quite a gimmick their We agree Re: TQ use > Well if your not objecting to it, why accuse the course of > being " gimmicky " on this public discussion group? This group is set up for people to discuss all sorts of medical, remote & tactical issues and learn from them. Part of that process is to discuss training courses and course providers. That's what discussion groups are for, to discuss things. Phil, may I suggest that before you jump down someone's throat, you have the common courtesy of identifying yourself correctly? Rod Member Information: List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. Post message: egroups Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk Regards The Remote Medics Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 RE: TQ use ROD HI Death from susp trauma is generally not due to toxins, but through too much blood overstretching the heart and causing cardiac arrest when 1- 2 litres hits heart instantly the second pt is laid flat ********************** C U T E ! Possible But with a level of evidence that can be described as : " light " It reminds me a bit of the " 2 " liter of auto-transufsed blood That " used to be " the science behind the MAST pants ! ! ! ?)))))) .... waiting for the real science and with no intentions of laying down Pts rapidly .... with or with out knowing the exact reason behind the associated sudden death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Hi I was not referring to the TQ as a 'gimmick'. Just some items of 'Phil's' course. And those bits did not have anything to do with a TQ. I have seen some of the course material and was just commenting on a small part of it. Merry Christmas. Rod Re: TQ use > Admit it > > Theiir was a time where the TK was an oversold ( & deleterious) Gimmick > Same as the $100 bullet wound kits sold to PD departments ! ! !)))) > > Safe to say > The selling of the TK is more sober these days > > And I would not use word gimmick to qualify > A jesture that, some times, may very well save a life > > Not quite a gimmick their > > We agree > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Gents, If this is going to get continue to get silly take it off the group please. A thread on the merits of the TQ's is fine, but the last 4 mails have been ping pong personal remarks between two of the members, which does not benifit the group as whole. Rgs Ian List Owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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