Re: Clarification on Military Medics

November 20, 2006

Ian,

I can agree with this. The US military Medics I have worked with, were excellent

in trauma and clinical management, very few with updated ACLS or ALS

certification. Now, I am speaking mostly about Iraq, not the GOM, where it is

mandatory to have the valid certification.

It is apparent that their training is build around healthy and fit

individuals...not your stressed, overweight Mc brotherhood. Even though

certain companies claim to have a rigid pre-employment medical, I have seen

numerous cases where some of these individuals should setup house outside the

A & E department.

I think the main problem they have, is that once they are in the field,

especially as civilians, there is little oppertunity to receive any refresher

courses due to the long rotations (12/2) they are doing. Unfortunately, the

companies they work for, do not have a system in place where they can receive

such training on site. In our group, we tried to get instructors out to give the

refresher training on site, to no avail. Even when we did find someone, the

company was not willing to pay for it, as it is the individuals responsibility

to keep their certifications current. Unfortunately, some of the US companies do

turn a blind eye. The best we could do, was to start our own internal training

refresher. We were fortunate enough to have a PA, which send us weekly

questionares just to pump up the interest.

Even though it is quite expensive, we (UK) are fortunate enough that it is

mandatory to have all our certifications up to date. The only solution I see,

would be to make these companies more aware of these problems, and put more

effort into getting Instructors in ACLS or ALS out there to train/update these

guys.

This is only my opinion, even if it is about apples or oranges.

Clarification on Military Medics

Gents,

I have pasted an interesting insert from the website

www.promedglobal. com

Military combat medics, while expert at traumatic injuries and caring

for minor emergencies such as

lacerations, fractures, infections, etc are rarely trained in Advanced

Cardiac Life Support. Thus,

when confronted by a critical patient, such as an expatriate manager

experiencing a heart attack,

they do not have the training and experience to administer the

appropriate treatment.

When I was in the forces (UK), I was trained in ACLS and later in the

new ALS protocols.

Maybe this just refers to US military medics?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Ian.

--

Ian H.

ianh722fmail (DOT) co.uk

--

http://www.fastmail .fm - IMAP accessible web-mail

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

November 20, 2006

Hi all..just to add my little bit to this one ..as a current serving military

medic i can safely say that any medic (cmt class 1..LMA..or RAF cpl)..will have

done als training and in a lot of cases more besides.. atls and so on...the

later threads about our population being fit and healthy hits the nail on the

head where as the uk ambulances services see cardiac proplems almost on a daily

basis..your military counterpart will rarely see it unless out with a ambulance

crew or car or when working a hospital posting which are 2 years long and maybe

all in A+E . Along with the dreaded paperwork and medicals nearly all our post

basic medical training is aimed towards the trauma element of the job..after all

it would be no good sending a young 19 y/old who was not trained this way out to

Iraq / Afghan...horses for courses..!!..as for the americans they have some

suberb trauma medics at the end of thier year long tours.. and i am one of the

guys that was allways a bit harsh on the

americans but they also..(medics )are trained in als and cardiac protocols it,s

just they see more trama than your uk cases S.O.B / CARDIAC patients... so

all in all i think this post is ill infomred at best..!!!!...IAN (LARRY) LAMB

" Ian H. " <ianh722@...> wrote: Gents,

I have pasted an interesting insert from the website

www.promedglobal.com

Military combat medics, while expert at traumatic injuries and caring

for minor emergencies such as

lacerations, fractures, infections, etc are rarely trained in Advanced

Cardiac Life Support. Thus,

when confronted by a critical patient, such as an expatriate manager

experiencing a heart attack,

they do not have the training and experience to administer the

appropriate treatment.

When I was in the forces (UK), I was trained in ACLS and later in the

new ALS protocols.

Maybe this just refers to US military medics?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Ian.

--

Ian H.

ianh722@...

--

http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail

---------------------------------

The all-new goes wherever you go - free your email address from

your Internet provider.

November 20, 2006

that is because you have been trained by the best on the dorset frv car.Keep

safe

Bill

>-- Original Message --

>

>From: ian lamb <shortmarine1969@...>

>Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:35:17 +0000 (GMT)

>Subject: Re: Clarification on Military Medics

>Reply-

>

>Hi all..just to add my little bit to this one ..as a current serving military

>medic i can safely say that any medic (cmt class 1..LMA..or RAF cpl)..will

>have done als training and in a lot of cases more besides.. atls and so

on...the

>later threads about our population being fit and healthy hits the nail on

>the head where as the uk ambulances services see cardiac proplems almost

>on a daily basis..your military counterpart will rarely see it unless out

>with a ambulance crew or car or when working a hospital posting which are

>2 years long and maybe all in A+E . Along with the dreaded paperwork and

>medicals nearly all our post basic medical training is aimed towards the

>trauma element of the job..after all it would be no good sending a young

>19 y/old who was not trained this way out to Iraq / Afghan...horses for

courses..!!..as

>for the americans they have some suberb trauma medics at the end of thier

>year long tours.. and i am one of the guys that was allways a bit harsh

on

>the

> americans but they also..(medics )are trained in als and cardiac protocols

>it,s just they see more trama than your uk cases S.O.B / CARDIAC patients...

> so all in all i think this post is ill infomred at best..!!!!...IAN (LARRY)

>LAMB

>

> " Ian H. " <ianh722@...> wrote: Gents,

>

>I have pasted an interesting insert from the website

>www.promedglobal.com

>

>Military combat medics, while expert at traumatic injuries and caring

>for minor emergencies such as

>lacerations, fractures, infections, etc are rarely trained in Advanced

>Cardiac Life Support. Thus,

>when confronted by a critical patient, such as an expatriate manager

>experiencing a heart attack,

>they do not have the training and experience to administer the

>appropriate treatment.

>

>When I was in the forces (UK), I was trained in ACLS and later in the

>new ALS protocols.

>

>Maybe this just refers to US military medics?

>

>Can anyone shed any light on this?

>

>Ian.

>--

>Ian H.

>ianh722@...

>

>--

>http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail

>

>---------------------------------

> The all-new goes wherever you go - free your email address

from

>your Internet provider.

>

November 20, 2006

Hi folks,

I'll weigh in on this one in defense of the American

Medic and their ability to provide quality Critical

Cardiac care.I have been in a number US ER's and

Trauma centers where Military Medics would bring their

medical emergency to us.They would be first line in

recognition and initiation of Emergecy Management.So

far very exemplary in recognising and getting folks to

care in Timely fashion.

One coast guard commander certianlly owes his life to

his IDC ( Independent Duty Corpsman) who recognised

the " indigestion " following a transfer party lunch as

cardiac pain did an ECK saw the ST Changes and got him

in the ALS EMS system FAST.

I am also teaching these folks at least three to four

times a month throughout the US as I lecture on

Cardiac Medications.I would have to say that my 30

year career supports thatS Medics are top flight in

all spheres...so I am very sorry that this chap had a

bad experience.Proves once again that there are good

and bad among all of us...hopefully you will encounter

good from here out.

Gerry

--- ian lamb <shortmarine1969@...> wrote:

> Hi all..just to add my little bit to this one ..as a

> current serving military medic i can safely say that

> any medic (cmt class 1..LMA..or RAF cpl)..will have

> done als training and in a lot of cases more

> besides.. atls and so on...the later threads about

> our population being fit and healthy hits the nail

> on the head where as the uk ambulances services see

> cardiac proplems almost on a daily basis..your

> military counterpart will rarely see it unless out

> with a ambulance crew or car or when working a

> hospital posting which are 2 years long and maybe

> all in A+E . Along with the dreaded paperwork and

> medicals nearly all our post basic medical training

> is aimed towards the trauma element of the

> job..after all it would be no good sending a young

> 19 y/old who was not trained this way out to Iraq /

> Afghan...horses for courses..!!..as for the

> americans they have some suberb trauma medics at the

> end of thier year long tours.. and i am one of the

> guys that was allways a bit harsh on the

> americans but they also..(medics )are trained in

> als and cardiac protocols it,s just they see more

> trama than your uk cases S.O.B / CARDIAC

> patients... so all in all i think this post is ill

> infomred at best..!!!!...IAN (LARRY) LAMB

>

> " Ian H. " <ianh722@...> wrote:

> Gents,

>

> I have pasted an interesting insert from the website

> www.promedglobal.com

>

> Military combat medics, while expert at traumatic

> injuries and caring

> for minor emergencies such as

> lacerations, fractures, infections, etc are rarely

> trained in Advanced

> Cardiac Life Support. Thus,

> when confronted by a critical patient, such as an

> expatriate manager

> experiencing a heart attack,

> they do not have the training and experience to

> administer the

> appropriate treatment.

>

> When I was in the forces (UK), I was trained in ACLS

> and later in the

> new ALS protocols.

>

> Maybe this just refers to US military medics?

>

> Can anyone shed any light on this?

>

> Ian.

> --

> Ian H.

> ianh722@...

>

> --

> http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail

>

> ---------------------------------

> The all-new goes wherever you go - free

> your email address from your Internet provider.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

November 21, 2006

Part of the issue may be that US " medics " are certified to different

levels. The traditional 91W (Medical Specialist) in the Army is

trained the level of a US EMT-B with some skills of an LPN. I'm not

very familiar with the initial entry training of Navy/Coast Guard

Corpsman, however I believe there is more emphasis on in-hospital/

primary care skills, where Army Medics learn that as OJT.

While advanced training is part of the career path in the Navy/Coast

Guard, it is not generally included in the Army other then what you

OJT or is required for your particular posting. Normally, soldiers in

the Army will renlist into a program that has advanced training

(normally the Physician Assistant program.)

The point being, that " medics " in the U.S. military (Army especially)

run the gamut of skills and training, with the basic requirement to

become an EMT-B with some " advanced " skills related to trauma.

Austin

On Nov 20, 2006, at 2:57 PM, gerry keenan wrote:

> Hi folks,

> I'll weigh in on this one in defense of the American

> Medic and their ability to provide quality Critical

> Cardiac care.I have been in a number US ER's and

> Trauma centers where Military Medics would bring their

> medical emergency to us.They would be first line in

> recognition and initiation of Emergecy Management.So

> far very exemplary in recognising and getting folks to

> care in Timely fashion.

> One coast guard commander certianlly owes his life to

> his IDC ( Independent Duty Corpsman) who recognised

> the " indigestion " following a transfer party lunch as

> cardiac pain did an ECK saw the ST Changes and got him

> in the ALS EMS system FAST.

> I am also teaching these folks at least three to four

> times a month throughout the US as I lecture on

> Cardiac Medications.I would have to say that my 30

> year career supports thatS Medics are top flight in

> all spheres...so I am very sorry that this chap had a

> bad experience.Proves once again that there are good

> and bad among all of us...hopefully you will encounter

> good from here out.

> Gerry

>

> --- ian lamb <shortmarine1969@...> wrote:

>

> > Hi all..just to add my little bit to this one ..as a

> > current serving military medic i can safely say that

> > any medic (cmt class 1..LMA..or RAF cpl)..will have

> > done als training and in a lot of cases more

> > besides.. atls and so on...the later threads about

> > our population being fit and healthy hits the nail

> > on the head where as the uk ambulances services see

> > cardiac proplems almost on a daily basis..your

> > military counterpart will rarely see it unless out

> > with a ambulance crew or car or when working a

> > hospital posting which are 2 years long and maybe

> > all in A+E . Along with the dreaded paperwork and

> > medicals nearly all our post basic medical training

> > is aimed towards the trauma element of the

> > job..after all it would be no good sending a young

> > 19 y/old who was not trained this way out to Iraq /

> > Afghan...horses for courses..!!..as for the

> > americans they have some suberb trauma medics at the

> > end of thier year long tours.. and i am one of the

> > guys that was allways a bit harsh on the

> > americans but they also..(medics )are trained in

> > als and cardiac protocols it,s just they see more

> > trama than your uk cases S.O.B / CARDIAC

> > patients... so all in all i think this post is ill

> > infomred at best..!!!!...IAN (LARRY) LAMB

> >

> > " Ian H. " <ianh722@...> wrote:

> > Gents,

> >

> > I have pasted an interesting insert from the website

> > www.promedglobal.com

> >

> > Military combat medics, while expert at traumatic

> > injuries and caring

> > for minor emergencies such as

> > lacerations, fractures, infections, etc are rarely

> > trained in Advanced

> > Cardiac Life Support. Thus,

> > when confronted by a critical patient, such as an

> > expatriate manager

> > experiencing a heart attack,

> > they do not have the training and experience to

> > administer the

> > appropriate treatment.

> >

> > When I was in the forces (UK), I was trained in ACLS

> > and later in the

> > new ALS protocols.

> >

> > Maybe this just refers to US military medics?

> >

> > Can anyone shed any light on this?

> >

> > Ian.

> > --

> > Ian H.

> > ianh722@...

> >

> > --

> > http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > The all-new goes wherever you go - free

> > your email address from your Internet provider.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

>

November 21, 2006

I am of the opinion that, too much emphasis is based on cardiac

medicine by Paramedics, and not enough on primary care. I have only

seen a few cases of chest pain working in the field, and have never

carried more than an AED- except when working in a med centre when I

was in the army.

With the limited facilities I assume most of us work with. I think

time and money could be better spent developing our knowledge of

trop med, and general nursing skills.

Toby

>

> Ian,

>

> I can agree with this. The US military Medics I have worked with,

were excellent in trauma and clinical management, very few with

updated ACLS or ALS certification. Now, I am speaking mostly about

Iraq, not the GOM, where it is mandatory to have the valid

certification.

>

> It is apparent that their training is build around healthy and fit

individuals...not your stressed, overweight Mc brotherhood.

Even though certain companies claim to have a rigid pre-employment

medical, I have seen numerous cases where some of these individuals

should setup house outside the A & E department.

>

> I think the main problem they have, is that once they are in the

field, especially as civilians, there is little oppertunity to

receive any refresher courses due to the long rotations (12/2) they

are doing. Unfortunately, the companies they work for, do not have a

system in place where they can receive such training on site. In our

group, we tried to get instructors out to give the refresher

training on site, to no avail. Even when we did find someone, the

company was not willing to pay for it, as it is the individuals

responsibility to keep their certifications current. Unfortunately,

some of the US companies do turn a blind eye. The best we could do,

was to start our own internal training refresher. We were fortunate

enough to have a PA, which send us weekly questionares just to pump

up the interest.

>

> Even though it is quite expensive, we (UK) are fortunate enough

that it is mandatory to have all our certifications up to date. The

only solution I see, would be to make these companies more aware of

these problems, and put more effort into getting Instructors in ACLS

or ALS out there to train/update these guys.

>

> This is only my opinion, even if it is about apples or oranges.

>

> Clarification on Military Medics

>

> Gents,

>

> I have pasted an interesting insert from the website

> www.promedglobal. com

>

> Military combat medics, while expert at traumatic injuries and

caring

> for minor emergencies such as

> lacerations, fractures, infections, etc are rarely trained in

Advanced

> Cardiac Life Support. Thus,

> when confronted by a critical patient, such as an expatriate

manager

> experiencing a heart attack,

> they do not have the training and experience to administer the

> appropriate treatment.

>

> When I was in the forces (UK), I was trained in ACLS and later in

the

> new ALS protocols.

>

> Maybe this just refers to US military medics?

>

> Can anyone shed any light on this?

>

> Ian.

> --

> Ian H.

> ianh722fmail (DOT) co.uk

>

> --

> http://www.fastmail .fm - IMAP accessible web-mail

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.

>

November 21, 2006

Thanks to all who answered on and offline.

I was very surprised to see such comments on this website, anyway I got

the clarification I was after.

Ian.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:57:56 -0800 (PST), " gerry keenan "

<gkeenanpa@...> said:

> Hi folks,

> I'll weigh in on this one in defense of the American

> Medic and their ability to provide quality Critical

> Cardiac care.I have been in a number US ER's and

> Trauma centers where Military Medics would bring their

> medical emergency to us.They would be first line in

> recognition and initiation of Emergecy Management.So

> far very exemplary in recognising and getting folks to

> care in Timely fashion.

> One coast guard commander certianlly owes his life to

> his IDC ( Independent Duty Corpsman) who recognised

> the " indigestion " following a transfer party lunch as

> cardiac pain did an ECK saw the ST Changes and got him

> in the ALS EMS system FAST.

> I am also teaching these folks at least three to four

> times a month throughout the US as I lecture on

> Cardiac Medications.I would have to say that my 30

> year career supports thatS Medics are top flight in

> all spheres...so I am very sorry that this chap had a

> bad experience.Proves once again that there are good

> and bad among all of us...hopefully you will encounter

> good from here out.

> Gerry

>

> --- ian lamb <shortmarine1969@...> wrote:

>

> > Hi all..just to add my little bit to this one ..as a

> > current serving military medic i can safely say that

> > any medic (cmt class 1..LMA..or RAF cpl)..will have

> > done als training and in a lot of cases more

> > besides.. atls and so on...the later threads about

> > our population being fit and healthy hits the nail

> > on the head where as the uk ambulances services see

> > cardiac proplems almost on a daily basis..your

> > military counterpart will rarely see it unless out

> > with a ambulance crew or car or when working a

> > hospital posting which are 2 years long and maybe

> > all in A+E . Along with the dreaded paperwork and

> > medicals nearly all our post basic medical training

> > is aimed towards the trauma element of the

> > job..after all it would be no good sending a young

> > 19 y/old who was not trained this way out to Iraq /

> > Afghan...horses for courses..!!..as for the

> > americans they have some suberb trauma medics at the

> > end of thier year long tours.. and i am one of the

> > guys that was allways a bit harsh on the

> > americans but they also..(medics )are trained in

> > als and cardiac protocols it,s just they see more

> > trama than your uk cases S.O.B / CARDIAC

> > patients... so all in all i think this post is ill

> > infomred at best..!!!!...IAN (LARRY) LAMB

> >

> > " Ian H. " <ianh722@...> wrote:

> > Gents,

> >

> > I have pasted an interesting insert from the website

> > www.promedglobal.com

> >

> > Military combat medics, while expert at traumatic

> > injuries and caring

> > for minor emergencies such as

> > lacerations, fractures, infections, etc are rarely

> > trained in Advanced

> > Cardiac Life Support. Thus,

> > when confronted by a critical patient, such as an

> > expatriate manager

> > experiencing a heart attack,

> > they do not have the training and experience to

> > administer the

> > appropriate treatment.

> >

> > When I was in the forces (UK), I was trained in ACLS

> > and later in the

> > new ALS protocols.

> >

> > Maybe this just refers to US military medics?

> >

> > Can anyone shed any light on this?

> >

> > Ian.

> > --

> > Ian H.

> > ianh722@...

> >

> > --

> > http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > The all-new goes wherever you go - free

> > your email address from your Internet provider.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

>

--

Ian H.

ianh722@...

--

http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

November 21, 2006

Guys in South Africa we call it in the military BATLS and BARTS.

william.clowery@... wrote: that is because you have been trained by

the best on the dorset frv car.Keep

safe

Bill

>-- Original Message --

>

>From: ian lamb