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I uploaded a file showing how to make Kefiili, for anyone interested. I

also updated the Kimchi PDF (not much, it is just that I forgot to mention

to rinse off the salt!!!).

-- Heidi

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  • 6 months later...

Heidi,

May I ask, how many people are going thru 1/2 gal. a day? How and when

are you using the kefir? Ex. drinking a glass plain before/after each meal, as a

meal, what?

Thanks,

Kathy

>

> Del:

>

> Mine have gone as long as a month, but then, my kitchen is probably

> inundated with viili spores. It may be a good idea to dry some on a cloth ...

> that is how Dom says they used to save viili spores.

>

> The kefir itself is MUCH more robust than the " thick " viili bacteria.

> So far what has happened to folks I've talked to is that the kefiili

> " went thin " but the kefir didn't die.

>

> I pull my backups out of the fridge every so often and make kefir from them

> to make sure they are ok. If I get too much kefiili I bake with it, make kefir

cheese,

> or give it to the chickens, or make jerky. But we go through half a gallon of

> it a day, easy.

>

> BTW I was reading something on GF baking and it mentioned that adding

> acid to bread makes it come out better, which is the logic behind using

> vinegar and " dough enhancer " . That may be why kefiili makes such

> a good additive to cookies and bread ... well, there are probably other

> reasons too, like all those polysaccharides. But really, I can't believe

> the difference in baked goods!

>

> -- Heidi

>

>

>

> >What is the longest time to let kefir grains " rest " in the fridge?

> >Also what is the longest time to keep kefir in the fridge? I am the

> >only on eating it and all of a sudden I had too much so I put it to

> >rest and I think it's been resting 2 weeks! It's on the counter now

> >and I hope it's okay. I had some kefir also in the fridge that long.

> >When I pulled it out just now to eat some, it had returned to a milk

> >stage, sorta. Still tasted good and when I stirred it, it started to

> >thicken a little or it may have been my imagination.

> >

> >Del

> >

> >

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>

> Del:

>

> Mine have gone as long as a month, but then, my kitchen is probably

> inundated with viili spores. It may be a good idea to dry some on a

cloth ...

--->Dry some grains on a cloth? For how long and then what? Should I

first just see what they do? I put them " out " last night, this

morning they look okay.<---

> that is how Dom says they used to save viili spores.

--->I don't really care for the Dom site. I find it hard to find info

and when you do find it, I don't think he does a good job of writing

it! Just me, I guess! Most do like it according to here!<---

>

> The kefir itself is MUCH more robust than the " thick " viili

bacteria.

> So far what has happened to folks I've talked to is that the kefiili

> " went thin " but the kefir didn't die.

>

> I pull my backups out of the fridge every so often and make kefir

from them

> to make sure they are ok.

--->I was doing find until I got about 3 gallons all of a sudden!<---

If I get too much kefiili I bake with it, make kefir cheese,

--->I am still not " there " yet with making all that. Right now I am

spending almost all my time in the kitchen<---

> or give it to the chickens, or make jerky. But we go through half a

gallon of

> it a day, easy.

>

> BTW I was reading something on GF baking and it mentioned that

adding

> acid to bread makes it come out better, which is the logic behind

using

> vinegar and " dough enhancer " . That may be why kefiili makes such

> a good additive to cookies and bread ... well, there are probably

other

> reasons too, like all those polysaccharides. But really, I can't

believe

> the difference in baked goods!

--->Just when I am getting ready to do all my christmas baking. I

think I messed up big time! <---

>

> -- Heidi

Thanks,

Del

>

>

>

> >What is the longest time to let kefir grains " rest " in the fridge?

> >Also what is the longest time to keep kefir in the fridge? I am

the

> >only on eating it and all of a sudden I had too much so I put it

to

> >rest and I think it's been resting 2 weeks! It's on the counter

now

> >and I hope it's okay. I had some kefir also in the fridge that

long.

> >When I pulled it out just now to eat some, it had returned to a

milk

> >stage, sorta. Still tasted good and when I stirred it, it started

to

> >thicken a little or it may have been my imagination.

> >

> >Del

> >

> >

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> May I ask, how many people are going thru 1/2 gal. a day? How and when

>are you using the kefir? Ex. drinking a glass plain before/after each meal, as

a

>meal, what?

>

>Kathy

Well, some of mine goes to the chickens.

Some goes to baking. Some goes to making jerky. Some goes to

smoothies. A lot goes to my DH's " desserts " which consist of

a pile of ice cream or sherbert with kefiili poured on top.

There are 3 people who eat/drink it (kefiili is rather solid unless

you run it thru a blender), and 10 chickens, and me cooking.

For the baking, I use kefiili instead of the liquid called

for in cookies, cakes, and breads. It makes the product

softer and moister, and seems to keep it from molding.

I also use it to tenderize and flavorize meat. I suspect

it would make excellent ice cream too, but I haven't tried

that yet.

-- Heidi

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>Mine have gone as long as a month, but then, my kitchen is probably

>> inundated with viili spores. It may be a good idea to dry some on a

>cloth ...

>--->Dry some grains on a cloth? For how long and then what? Should I

>first just see what they do? I put them " out " last night, this

>morning they look okay.<---

No, dry some of the liquid. Just spread some on a cloth (or

coffee filter) and let it dry. You can dry the grains too,

but they are difficult to revive, in my experience. Drying

the liquid just saves the " viili " part of the equation.

--->I don't really care for the Dom site. I find it hard to find info

>and when you do find it, I don't think he does a good job of writing

>it! Just me, I guess! Most do like it according to here!<---

Organizing information is a tricky thing, and it is

one of MY soapboxes too (though usually I soapbox

about THAT when talking to programmers). However, Dom

has nice long emails about various cultural things in the kefir

list, and that was where I learned about the viili.

--->I was doing find until I got about 3 gallons all of a sudden!<---

How do you have ROOM for 3 gallons? I put the grains in the

fridge as soon as I have one gallon " ahead " , and take them

out again when we are down to half a gallon.

>If I get too much kefiili I bake with it, make kefir cheese,

>--->I am still not " there " yet with making all that. Right now I am

>spending almost all my time in the kitchen<---

I can empathize, believe me! But you can just use the kefir

in whatever you are cooking, just toss it in instead of

milk or water in a baking recipe. For kefir cheese, just

drape a clean towel over a big strainer (or line it with

coffee filters) and pour the kefir into it, and let it set

on the counter for hours until it gets solid. The cheese

keeps a LONG time in the fridge, and mixed with smoked

salmon or dried onions or whatever is a great holiday

spread (use it instead of cream cheese).

--->Just when I am getting ready to do all my christmas baking. I

>think I messed up big time! <---

Why messed up? If you have 3 gallons you are all set!

If the kefir is thin, you can still use it. It will likely

thicken up though if you set the kefir container in

a container of water.

-- Heidi

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>

> >Mine have gone as long as a month,

--->as long as a month, what, resting??<----

>

> No, dry some of the liquid. Just spread some on a cloth (or

> coffee filter) and let it dry. You can dry the grains too,

> but they are difficult to revive, in my experience. Drying

> the liquid just saves the " viili " part of the equation.

--->What do you do with it once it is dry??<----

>

> Organizing information is a tricky thing, and it is

> one of MY soapboxes too (though usually I soapbox

> about THAT when talking to programmers). However, Dom

> has nice long emails about various cultural things in the kefir

> list, and that was where I learned about the viili.

--->I don't think I have been there?<---

>

>

> How do you have ROOM for 3 gallons? I put the grains in the

> fridge as soon as I have one gallon " ahead " , and take them

> out again when we are down to half a gallon.

--->It's tight but I use a spare fridge in the basement. Okay that is

what I will do for now on, 1 gallon will be my max to make and then

rest.<---

>

> I can empathize, believe me! But you can just use the kefir

> in whatever you are cooking, just toss it in instead of

> milk or water in a baking recipe. For kefir cheese, just

> drape a clean towel over a big strainer (or line it with

> coffee filters) and pour the kefir into it, and let it set

> on the counter for hours until it gets solid. The cheese

> keeps a LONG time in the fridge, and mixed with smoked

> salmon or dried onions or whatever is a great holiday

> spread (use it instead of cream cheese).

>--->Easier said then done this time of year. I should have already

done that. Maybe next year I will be more organized with this.<---

>

> Why messed up? If you have 3 gallons you are all set!

> If the kefir is thin, you can still use it. It will likely

> thicken up though if you set the kefir container in

> a container of water.

--->I DID have 3 gallons but that is what I have been eating while

the grains were resting. Now I have about 1/2 gallon left that kefir.

Oh, and today I was eating some of it and all of a sudden I felt

something weird and it was a large piece of grains! So I ate it! I

don't know how I missed that big of a piece of grains!<---

>

> -- Heidi

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Heidi,

Thanks for filling me in on how you use your fermented milk. I feel like I can't

quite keep up with the production as my biggest kefir-eater doesn't like my

homemade kefir! As far as baking, I do use my kefir sometimes in pancakes

etc. I always feel though, that I am destroying the good bacteria with heat.

What do you know about this?

Kathy

--- In , Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...>

wrote:

>

> > May I ask, how many people are going thru 1/2 gal. a day? How and when

> >are you using the kefir? Ex. drinking a glass plain before/after each meal,

as a

> >meal, what?

> >

> >Kathy

>

> Well, some of mine goes to the chickens.

> Some goes to baking. Some goes to making jerky. Some goes to

> smoothies. A lot goes to my DH's " desserts " which consist of

> a pile of ice cream or sherbert with kefiili poured on top.

> There are 3 people who eat/drink it (kefiili is rather solid unless

> you run it thru a blender), and 10 chickens, and me cooking.

>

> For the baking, I use kefiili instead of the liquid called

> for in cookies, cakes, and breads. It makes the product

> softer and moister, and seems to keep it from molding.

> I also use it to tenderize and flavorize meat. I suspect

> it would make excellent ice cream too, but I haven't tried

> that yet.

>

> -- Heidi

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>--->It's tight but I use a spare fridge in the basement. Okay that is

>what I will do for now on, 1 gallon will be my max to make and then

>rest.<---

And put some spare grains away as soon as you can!

>--->I DID have 3 gallons but that is what I have been eating while

>the grains were resting. Now I have about 1/2 gallon left that kefir.

If that kefir is still thick, add a dollop to the batch that is brewing,

which should thicken it up. How is the batch that is brewing

doing, anyway? If it isn't thick after a day, put it in the fridge

and see if that thickens it.

BTW I think I figured out another variable: What shape is your

brewing container, and is it airtight? Viili is aerobic, I believe,

as are some of the other kefir microbes. So they like a large

surface area and oxygen. My brewing container happens to

be not very airtight, and for awhile I was just putting a piece

of cotton over the lid of the mason jar with a rubberband.

I notice it brews faster when there is more airspace at the

top, which I was thinking was because there is more milk

in that case, but now I'm thinking it has to do with oxygen.

The " recipe " for starting viili from buttermilk makes a point

of using a bowl (max surface area) with no cover.

>Oh, and today I was eating some of it and all of a sudden I felt

>something weird and it was a large piece of grains! So I ate it! I

>don't know how I missed that big of a piece of grains!<---

Uh oh, now it will grow inside you!!!! <joke, really> I miss them

all the time, the kefiili is so thick. But also they seem to

sprout spontaneously, I find these tiny ones just growing

freely when it gets left in the fridge.

-- Heidi

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>Heidi,

>

>Thanks for filling me in on how you use your fermented milk. I feel like I

can't

>quite keep up with the production as my biggest kefir-eater doesn't like my

>homemade kefir!

Well, just put the grains in the fridge. You don't have to make more than

you need, ever. Just let them out of the fridge at least once a week

or so to make a batch, then add fresh milk. I put the fermenting container,

milk+grains, in the fridge. Then take it out when I'm running low, let it

ferment, take the grains out for a new batch with fresh milk. Then put it

back in the fridge if we aren't using much.

> As far as baking, I do use my kefir sometimes in pancakes

>etc. I always feel though, that I am destroying the good bacteria with heat.

>What do you know about this?

Sure, heating kills the bacteria. How many bacteria does a girl need in

a day though? Some folks make do with a couple of teeny probiotic

pills, and for me, anyway, I'm getting a big doses of kimchi and various

kefir things all day: I'm not worried about being short on bacteria!

What you DO get from kefir pancakes is a better pancake, and likely

some of the " bad " stuff in grains neutralized, plus some added

nutrients from the kefir. Also I don't do well with casein, so using

kefir means I CAN put a milk-like substance in pancakes or cookies

and eat them without discomfort (the casein in kefir seems to be

denatured enough that it doesn't bother me).

-- Heidi

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>

> >--->It's tight but I use a spare fridge in the basement. Okay that

is

> >what I will do for now on, 1 gallon will be my max to make and

then

> >rest.<---

>

> And put some spare grains away as soon as you can!

--->I think I am still waiting to hear how to put some spare grains

away. Foegive me if you have already said.<---

>

>

> >--->I DID have 3 gallons but that is what I have been eating while

> >the grains were resting. Now I have about 1/2 gallon left that

kefir.

>

> If that kefir is still thick, add a dollop to the batch that is

brewing,

> which should thicken it up. How is the batch that is brewing

> doing, anyway? If it isn't thick after a day, put it in the fridge

> and see if that thickens it.

>

> BTW I think I figured out another variable: What shape is your

> brewing container, and is it airtight? Viili is aerobic, I believe,

> as are some of the other kefir microbes. So they like a large

> surface area and oxygen. My brewing container happens to

> be not very airtight, and for awhile I was just putting a piece

> of cotton over the lid of the mason jar with a rubberband.

--->It's a large mouth square 1/2 gallon jar. The opening is round

with a plastic lid. I did have the lid on tight. Thanks for reminding

me. So did you stop using the piece of cloth with a rubber band? Why?

<---

> I notice it brews faster when there is more airspace at the

> top, which I was thinking was because there is more milk

> in that case, but now I'm thinking it has to do with oxygen.

--->So, I ask again, what are you covering with?<---

>

> The " recipe " for starting viili from buttermilk makes a point

> of using a bowl (max surface area) with no cover.

--->Using pasturized buttermilk? Ummm, what dies that taste like? I

would not like leaving it sit on the counter for 24 hours with no

cover. No telling what would fall in!<---

>

>

> >Oh, and today I was eating some of it and all of a sudden I felt

> >something weird and it was a large piece of grains! So I ate it! I

> >don't know how I missed that big of a piece of grains!<---

>

> Uh oh, now it will grow inside you!!!! <joke, really> I miss them

> all the time, the kefiili is so thick. But also they seem to

> sprout spontaneously, I find these tiny ones just growing

> freely when it gets left in the fridge.

--->Uh Oh, I had the wrong jar! (don't laugh, I haven't been into the

wine, but that sounds like a good idea) I was eating from the grains

jar and had the kefir sitting on the counter! Actually the grains jar

was thick and the kefir had gone thin. I just now took the grains out

and put some of the kefir with it and some new milk and started the

24 hours fermenting time. I put a cloth top on with a rubber band. I

think It will be okay now.<---

>

>

> -- Heidi

Del

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>--->Uh Oh, I had the wrong jar! (don't laugh, I haven't been into the

>wine, but that sounds like a good idea) I was eating from the grains

>jar and had the kefir sitting on the counter! Actually the grains jar

>was thick and the kefir had gone thin. I just now took the grains out

>and put some of the kefir with it and some new milk and started the

>24 hours fermenting time. I put a cloth top on with a rubber band. I

>think It will be okay now.<---

Oh well at least you caught it before you (or the dog!) ate

ALL the grains!

I put my grains jar in the fridge to rest and sometimes my

DH starts to use that one ... so now I put the grains

jar and the backups out in the garage. He's afraid to touch

stuff out in the garage, because that's where I keep yecchy

stuff for the animals too ...

-- Heidi

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