Re: Manual handling and medics

[Guest guest]

Hi Mitch,

As well as being a Medic, I am also a Manual Handling Instructor. There

is no weight limit when carrying loads. The limitation is based on the

persons capability to carry the object, taking into consideration the

following.

Distance the load is to be moved.

Is the route on one level, or are their variations in the level of the

route to be taken.

Obstructions/Layout of the route

Lighting.

Size and shape of the load to be moved.

Is it a single or multiple load that requires moving.

We carry out task risk assessments for moving casualties in Stretchers.

And where necessary will have two teams of Stretcher Bearers to move a

casulaty over a distance and if stairs have to be involved.

Regards

Neil Poole

Elgin/lin Medic

<lisamitch50@...>

Sent by:

09/06/2006 11:54

Please respond to

remote medics < >

cc:

Subject: Manual handling and medics

All,

Don't worry ill shut up after this question.

On my travels about rigs and platforms I come across different set-ups

for crash bags and emergency medical bags. However I am wondering if we as

Medics are sticking to the manual handling regulations as well as everyone

else.

Can any NHS Medics as well as other Offshore Medics let me know (on or

offline) if they conduct manual handling assessments on themselves and the

medical equipment? I understand that;

QUOTE: " The Manual Handling Operations Regulations 1992 (as amended) set

no specific requirements such as weight limits. "

However is there a weight, which is widely understood, as acceptable to

carry in the crash bag?

Any comments or points welcomed.

Mitch

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Neil,

Thanks dude, I’ve done my Man Hand course, but im just wondering if the Medics

have done these assessments on themselves.

Im ad-hoc and as such don’t have a home of my own, and the weights vary a lot

from place to place, for instance: The rig I am on now has a crash bag of 20kgs

(Just over 3 stone) and this is mainly because there is an oxygen bottle in the

base of it. All I wanted to know was if the NHS and Offshore Medics had an

" Acceptable " useable weight of the crash bag.

Now I know what some people might be thinking, especially some of us from the

forces, but I gave up my large pack / turtles sack carrying days when I left the

army, and im more into the " Get the first aid guys to carry some items also "

philosophy.

Thanks for the input Neil, ill re-think / re-word future questions.

Mitch

medic.PUQ@... wrote:

Hi Mitch,

As well as being a Medic, I am also a Manual Handling Instructor. There

is no weight limit when carrying loads. The limitation is based on the

persons capability to carry the object, taking into consideration the

following.

Distance the load is to be moved.

Is the route on one level, or are their variations in the level of the

route to be taken.

Obstructions/Layout of the route

Lighting.

Size and shape of the load to be moved.

Is it a single or multiple load that requires moving.

We carry out task risk assessments for moving casualties in Stretchers.

And where necessary will have two teams of Stretcher Bearers to move a

casulaty over a distance and if stairs have to be involved.

Regards

Neil Poole

Elgin/lin Medic

<lisamitch50@...>

Sent by:

09/06/2006 11:54

Please respond to

remote medics < >

cc:

Subject: Manual handling and medics

All,

Don't worry ill shut up after this question.

On my travels about rigs and platforms I come across different set-ups

for crash bags and emergency medical bags. However I am wondering if we as

Medics are sticking to the manual handling regulations as well as everyone

else.

Can any NHS Medics as well as other Offshore Medics let me know (on or

offline) if they conduct manual handling assessments on themselves and the

medical equipment? I understand that;

QUOTE: " The Manual Handling Operations Regulations 1992 (as amended) set

no specific requirements such as weight limits. "

However is there a weight, which is widely understood, as acceptable to

carry in the crash bag?

Any comments or points welcomed.

Mitch

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Mitch & Neil,

Just as a point of interest, luggage handlers at the heliports apparently now

require personnel bags to weigh less than 12 kg now, and they only move bags

onto a cart and then into the helicopter, or vice versa.

Most Crash Bags I've come across weigh a good deal more than this, and have

to be manually transported further distances too, if all points on an offshore

installation are taken into account !

Regards,

Phil

<lisamitch50@...> wrote:

Neil,

Thanks dude, I’ve done my Man Hand course, but im just wondering if the Medics

have done these assessments on themselves.

Im ad-hoc and as such don’t have a home of my own, and the weights vary a lot

from place to place, for instance: The rig I am on now has a crash bag of 20kgs

(Just over 3 stone) and this is mainly because there is an oxygen bottle in the

base of it. All I wanted to know was if the NHS and Offshore Medics had an

" Acceptable " useable weight of the crash bag.

Now I know what some people might be thinking, especially some of us from the

forces, but I gave up my large pack / turtles sack carrying days when I left the

army, and im more into the " Get the first aid guys to carry some items also "

philosophy.

Thanks for the input Neil, ill re-think / re-word future questions.

Mitch

medic.PUQ@... wrote:

Hi Mitch,

As well as being a Medic, I am also a Manual Handling Instructor. There

is no weight limit when carrying loads. The limitation is based on the

persons capability to carry the object, taking into consideration the

following.

Distance the load is to be moved.

Is the route on one level, or are their variations in the level of the

route to be taken.

Obstructions/Layout of the route

Lighting.

Size and shape of the load to be moved.

Is it a single or multiple load that requires moving.

We carry out task risk assessments for moving casualties in Stretchers.

And where necessary will have two teams of Stretcher Bearers to move a

casulaty over a distance and if stairs have to be involved.

Regards

Neil Poole

Elgin/lin Medic

Sent by:

09/06/2006 11:54

Please respond to

remote medics

cc:

Subject: Manual handling and medics

All,

Don't worry ill shut up after this question.

On my travels about rigs and platforms I come across different set-ups

for crash bags and emergency medical bags. However I am wondering if we as

Medics are sticking to the manual handling regulations as well as everyone

else.

Can any NHS Medics as well as other Offshore Medics let me know (on or

offline) if they conduct manual handling assessments on themselves and the

medical equipment? I understand that;

QUOTE: " The Manual Handling Operations Regulations 1992 (as amended) set

no specific requirements such as weight limits. "

However is there a weight, which is widely understood, as acceptable to

carry in the crash bag?

Any comments or points welcomed.

Mitch

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Mitch

Having been to various locations in my time it's something that I've

noticed as well.

There may be many out there who disagree with my comments, but after all

isn't that what an open forum is about, exchanging opinions.

How many installation have adopted the large mountain rescue style

rucksack for their grab (or is it lug) bag, and try to take everything

that they can think of with them to the scene of an incident.

I'm sitting on a Maersk boat which is no more than 80 metres from the

sick bay to any point and lo and behold there's the good old green

rucksack and sitting next to it is a Laerdal oxygen pack of the same

size. Ooh! my aching back.

How much kit do you actually need to take with you as a Medic for

immediate response? Surely the object of the exercise is to do the

essentials (ABC) and then evac to the sick bay where you have the kit to

deal with more serious injuries etc.

There are obviously certain circumstances where a casualty can't be

moved immediately (e.g. trapped) but you can always bring more kit to

the scene, after all what are you stretcher/medical party for if not to

help you?

Colin Marshall

wrote:

>

>

> All,

>

> Don’t worry ill shut up after this question.

>

> On my travels about rigs and platforms I come across different set-ups

> for crash bags and emergency medical bags. However I am wondering if we

> as Medics are sticking to the manual handling regulations as well as

> everyone else.

>

> Can any NHS Medics as well as other Offshore Medics let me know (on or

> offline) if they conduct manual handling assessments on themselves and

> the medical equipment? I understand that;

> QUOTE: " The Manual Handling Operations Regulations 1992 (as amended) set

> no specific requirements such as weight limits. "

> However is there a weight, which is widely understood, as acceptable to

> carry in the crash bag?

>

> Any comments or points welcomed.

>

> Mitch

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

> http://uk.messenger. <http://uk.messenger.>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mitch,

When I was in your position (Ad Hoc), I often found that a lot of the gear

put into the Crash bags was unnecessary. We have several First Aid

positions on the platform where we store gear. I take a rucksack about

10Kg and two of my Advanced First Aiders also take out small bags with

Life Saving equipment.

I am lucky that I have a Medical Team with 6 Advanced Traned First Aiders

to assist. We have done a Risk assessment of our bags and it is

reverified every 6 months.

regards

Neil

<lisamitch50@...>

Sent by:

09/06/2006 14:39

Please respond to

cc:

Subject: Re: Manual handling and medics

Neil,

Thanks dude, I've done my Man Hand course, but im just wondering if the

Medics have done these assessments on themselves.

Im ad-hoc and as such don't have a home of my own, and the weights vary

a lot from place to place, for instance: The rig I am on now has a crash

bag of 20kgs (Just over 3 stone) and this is mainly because there is an

oxygen bottle in the base of it. All I wanted to know was if the NHS and

Offshore Medics had an " Acceptable " useable weight of the crash bag.

Now I know what some people might be thinking, especially some of us

from the forces, but I gave up my large pack / turtles sack carrying days

when I left the army, and im more into the " Get the first aid guys to

carry some items also " philosophy.

Thanks for the input Neil, ill re-think / re-word future questions.

Mitch

medic.PUQ@... wrote:

Hi Mitch,

As well as being a Medic, I am also a Manual Handling Instructor. There

is no weight limit when carrying loads. The limitation is based on the

persons capability to carry the object, taking into consideration the

following.

Distance the load is to be moved.

Is the route on one level, or are their variations in the level of the

route to be taken.

Obstructions/Layout of the route

Lighting.

Size and shape of the load to be moved.

Is it a single or multiple load that requires moving.

We carry out task risk assessments for moving casualties in Stretchers.

And where necessary will have two teams of Stretcher Bearers to move a

casulaty over a distance and if stairs have to be involved.

Regards

Neil Poole

Elgin/lin Medic

<lisamitch50@...>

Sent by:

09/06/2006 11:54

Please respond to

remote medics < >

cc:

Subject: Manual handling and medics

All,

Don't worry ill shut up after this question.

On my travels about rigs and platforms I come across different set-ups

for crash bags and emergency medical bags. However I am wondering if we as

Medics are sticking to the manual handling regulations as well as everyone

else.

Can any NHS Medics as well as other Offshore Medics let me know (on or

offline) if they conduct manual handling assessments on themselves and the

medical equipment? I understand that;

QUOTE: " The Manual Handling Operations Regulations 1992 (as amended) set

no specific requirements such as weight limits. "

However is there a weight, which is widely understood, as acceptable to

carry in the crash bag?

Any comments or points welcomed.

Mitch

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

All baggage irrespective of the weight is put onto trolleys from the

Heliport we fly out, but as I said previously their is no set rule on this

matter, it is based on an individuals capability and other factors. My own

Crash Bag weighs 10 Kg, but I have a ^ man team and we split the Vital

Eqpt between us.

regards

Neil

Philip AD <aitdav@...>

Sent by:

09/06/2006 15:24

Please respond to

cc:

Subject: Re: Manual handling and medics

Mitch & Neil,

Just as a point of interest, luggage handlers at the heliports

apparently now require personnel bags to weigh less than 12 kg now, and

they only move bags onto a cart and then into the helicopter, or vice

versa.

Most Crash Bags I've come across weigh a good deal more than this, and

have to be manually transported further distances too, if all points on

an offshore installation are taken into account !

Regards,

Phil

<lisamitch50@...> wrote:

Neil,

Thanks dude, I've done my Man Hand course, but im just wondering if the

Medics have done these assessments on themselves.

Im ad-hoc and as such don't have a home of my own, and the weights vary a

lot from place to place, for instance: The rig I am on now has a crash bag

of 20kgs (Just over 3 stone) and this is mainly because there is an oxygen

bottle in the base of it. All I wanted to know was if the NHS and Offshore

Medics had an " Acceptable " useable weight of the crash bag.

Now I know what some people might be thinking, especially some of us from

the forces, but I gave up my large pack / turtles sack carrying days when

I left the army, and im more into the " Get the first aid guys to carry

some items also " philosophy.

Thanks for the input Neil, ill re-think / re-word future questions.

Mitch

medic.PUQ@... wrote:

Hi Mitch,

As well as being a Medic, I am also a Manual Handling Instructor. There

is no weight limit when carrying loads. The limitation is based on the

persons capability to carry the object, taking into consideration the

following.

Distance the load is to be moved.

Is the route on one level, or are their variations in the level of the

route to be taken.

Obstructions/Layout of the route

Lighting.

Size and shape of the load to be moved.

Is it a single or multiple load that requires moving.

We carry out task risk assessments for moving casualties in Stretchers.

And where necessary will have two teams of Stretcher Bearers to move a

casulaty over a distance and if stairs have to be involved.

Regards

Neil Poole

Elgin/lin Medic

Sent by:

09/06/2006 11:54

Please respond to

remote medics

cc:

Subject: Manual handling and medics

All,

Don't worry ill shut up after this question.

On my travels about rigs and platforms I come across different set-ups

for crash bags and emergency medical bags. However I am wondering if we as

Medics are sticking to the manual handling regulations as well as everyone

else.

Can any NHS Medics as well as other Offshore Medics let me know (on or

offline) if they conduct manual handling assessments on themselves and the

medical equipment? I understand that;

QUOTE: " The Manual Handling Operations Regulations 1992 (as amended) set

no specific requirements such as weight limits. "

However is there a weight, which is widely understood, as acceptable to

carry in the crash bag?

Any comments or points welcomed.

Mitch

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Good point, well said Colin.

I also find that the back straps are definately not designed by someone with a

mind towards protecting your spine. The Pack in Oz has a much better set

of straps on it.

I have just ordered one of those EMS Vests from SP Services to use instead of

the rucksack as we had a spinal here in a confined space and that is where you

see the futility of a big rucksack on a rig/vessel.

I actually have two onboard here (small semi sub), one in the sickbay, one

near the exit to the accomodation and have attached Karibiners to them so they

can be lowered down by rope to me if need be.

Interesting to see that some people get First Aiders. I have a first aid team

made up of six catering personnel. Only two of them are first aid qualified, the

catering company will not train the rest. They are both basic first aid as the

company will not put them through advanced first aid. One of these persons is

designated my medical escort so happy days when that occurrs. A medical audit

highlighted the need for this but ever since that has been raised there's been a

whole lot of ducking and diving but no actual training.

I tried to negate this by promoting first aid training to the rest of the crew

(This was paid for by the company- a fact I am very grateful for) with the

result that my deck and drill crew possesses more first aid qualified personnel

than my first aid team. So now although I have a 'first aid' team I have decide

to not even use most of them. They are not first aid qualified, they are not

physically capable of lifting the guys on here and they actually treat any

attempt to train them with contempt and derision. We have had three medics with

the same result so I don't think it is a personality issue on our part..

And unlike the military gentleman they can not be 'told' to do it. So now, we

train up the leading steward and camp boss with private one on one seesions in

the sickbay and have also started teaching and utilising the STC for all work

to do with stretchers. The STC was one of the most valuable resources I came

across so there is an option if anyone else needs one on thier vessel/rig.

Any time I raise this I get loose promises of action but no action, this has

gone on for over one year now.

I am personally very worried at the potential oputcome of a major incident as

the most likely casualties will be first aid trained personnel on the deck or

drill floor.

A catch 22 situation I say. Kind of like training them to treat themselves.

Any ideas would be appreciated, I feel I have exhausted all avenues.

Is there something I can use to put a bit more urgency in this issue.

Sorry if this bitch should have been on the chat group as well

Regards,

Mick

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Mick

The situation that you have with the catering personnel is not unique,

I've had it myself (and I've no doubt, many others in the group have had

this in their time) on various locations.

Some places its a Medical Team/Party and others Stretcher Party. with

the idea (I presume) that in the event of a casualty your allocated

personnel will assist you to treat and/or transport the casualty back to

the sickbay.

As you said these are not always necessarily the fittest or strongest

people on board and perhaps not the most suitable for the task. Also

they are unlikely to know where the majority of locations are in

external areas of an installation. The best people for finding their way

around and carrying things are normally the deck crew.

As far as the number of First Aiders is concerned I seem to remember

that this used to be specified on the Offshore First Aid Regulations

with a certain number of First Aiders per head of personnel on board and

then a Medic, plus First Aiders, for normal crewing numbers above 25.

Mind you, with the less prescriptive legislation that we have offshore

now this may well be decided by risk analysis and incorporated with

justification in an installation Safety Case.

To my mind (small as it is) you should always strive to have at least on

First Aider in the Fire/Emergency Response Team as, in most situations,

they will be at the scene of an incident before you have even been

allowed out of the sick bay during a muster.

As far as the Medical Party goes 1 or 2 volunteers are better than 6

pressed men, if you can be confident that you have 1 or 2 guys who are

good first aiders you can live with the rest of them just turning up at

musters. In a genuine emergency just shout at them anyway. You'll

probably have more trouble keeping the OIM out of your way while you're

attempting to do your real job so you could always use them as bouncers.

At the end of the day it all boils down to money, heaven forbid that we

should cut into the profits with a few more First Aider courses.

Piper Alpha - response a knee jerk reaction to safety that is getting cramp.

Colin

wrote:

>

>

> Hi,

> Good point, well said Colin.

> I also find that the back straps are definately not designed by someone

> with a mind towards protecting your spine. The Pack in Oz has a

> much better set of straps on it.

> I have just ordered one of those EMS Vests from SP Services to use

> instead of the rucksack as we had a spinal here in a confined space and

> that is where you see the futility of a big rucksack on a rig/vessel.

> I actually have two onboard here (small semi sub), one in the sickbay,

> one near the exit to the accomodation and have attached Karibiners to

> them so they can be lowered down by rope to me if need be.

>

> Interesting to see that some people get First Aiders. I have a first aid

> team made up of six catering personnel. Only two of them are first aid

> qualified, the catering company will not train the rest. They are both

> basic first aid as the company will not put them through advanced first

> aid. One of these persons is designated my medical escort so happy days

> when that occurrs. A medical audit highlighted the need for this but

> ever since that has been raised there's been a whole lot of ducking and

> diving but no actual training.

> I tried to negate this by promoting first aid training to the rest of

> the crew (This was paid for by the company- a fact I am very grateful

> for) with the result that my deck and drill crew possesses more first

> aid qualified personnel than my first aid team. So now although I have a

> 'first aid' team I have decide to not even use most of them. They are

> not first aid qualified, they are not physically capable of lifting the

> guys on here and they actually treat any attempt to train them with

> contempt and derision. We have had three medics with the same result so

> I don't think it is a personality issue on our part..

> And unlike the military gentleman they can not be 'told' to do it. So

> now, we train up the leading steward and camp boss with private one on

> one seesions in the sickbay and have also started teaching and utilising

> the STC for all work to do with stretchers. The STC was one of the most

> valuable resources I came across so there is an option if anyone else

> needs one on thier vessel/rig.

>

> Any time I raise this I get loose promises of action but no action, this

> has gone on for over one year now.

> I am personally very worried at the potential oputcome of a major

> incident as the most likely casualties will be first aid trained

> personnel on the deck or drill floor.

> A catch 22 situation I say. Kind of like training them to treat themselves.

> Any ideas would be appreciated, I feel I have exhausted all avenues.

> Is there something I can use to put a bit more urgency in this issue.

> Sorry if this bitch should have been on the chat group as well

>

> Regards,

>

> Mick

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

> http://au.messenger. <http://au.messenger.>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am tactical & offshore medic and have started using a leg pack for

high-angle and confined space ­ a lot of guys are using them for ski patrol

and mountain rescue as well. You can¹t take a whole lot in them, but enough

to control the airway, stop bleeding, etc, and you can easily access it with

a harness on while suspended.

-

On 10/6/06 00:01, " " <safety_mate@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Hi,

> Good point, well said Colin.

> I also find that the back straps are definately not designed by someone with

> a mind towards protecting your spine. The Pack in Oz has a much better

> set of straps on it.

> I have just ordered one of those EMS Vests from SP Services to use instead of

> the rucksack as we had a spinal here in a confined space and that is where you

> see the futility of a big rucksack on a rig/vessel.

> I actually have two onboard here (small semi sub), one in the sickbay, one

> near the exit to the accomodation and have attached Karibiners to them so they

> can be lowered down by rope to me if need be.

>

> Interesting to see that some people get First Aiders. I have a first aid team

> made up of six catering personnel. Only two of them are first aid qualified,

> the catering company will not train the rest. They are both basic first aid as

> the company will not put them through advanced first aid. One of these persons

> is designated my medical escort so happy days when that occurrs. A medical

> audit highlighted the need for this but ever since that has been raised

> there's been a whole lot of ducking and diving but no actual training.

> I tried to negate this by promoting first aid training to the rest of the

> crew (This was paid for by the company- a fact I am very grateful for) with

> the result that my deck and drill crew possesses more first aid qualified

> personnel than my first aid team. So now although I have a 'first aid' team I

> have decide to not even use most of them. They are not first aid qualified,

> they are not physically capable of lifting the guys on here and they actually

> treat any attempt to train them with contempt and derision. We have had three

> medics with the same result so I don't think it is a personality issue on our

> part..

> And unlike the military gentleman they can not be 'told' to do it. So now, we

> train up the leading steward and camp boss with private one on one seesions in

> the sickbay and have also started teaching and utilising the STC for all work

> to do with stretchers. The STC was one of the most valuable resources I came

> across so there is an option if anyone else needs one on thier vessel/rig.

>

> Any time I raise this I get loose promises of action but no action, this has

> gone on for over one year now.

> I am personally very worried at the potential oputcome of a major incident as

> the most likely casualties will be first aid trained personnel on the deck or

> drill floor.

> A catch 22 situation I say. Kind of like training them to treat themselves.

> Any ideas would be appreciated, I feel I have exhausted all avenues.

> Is there something I can use to put a bit more urgency in this issue.

> Sorry if this bitch should have been on the chat group as well

>

> Regards,

>

> Mick

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

>

>