Guest guest Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat zone for less than 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Kennith, You are totally correct with this point and I think a few medic agencies are having problems recruiting and retaining medics because of this situation. I was quite surprised to see the pretty good amount offerred by the ambulance service for a shift. I would also like to comment that your doing locums as an A & E or ambulance officer reinforces my observations that RNs should not need to do the placements for A & E experience if you are already doing it. If the non RNs could get some sort of placement through an agency as A & E assistants over a period of time or regular intervals then they would do better than fighting the red tape and PC obstacles. My colleagues and myself are due a reasonable day rate rise to come up to about midline rates on offer nowadays but we are working for a rather nice company and do not want to push the matter...yet! I do know of agencies recruiting medical staff in former Soviet block countries and though many of them are good there are quite a number who actually bought their medical diplomas and with no experience of modern western medicine are still taken on because of their cheap prices. P. Lumley <Firstaidenq@...> wrote: Hi everyone, does anyone out there wish to comment on medics wages in the North Sea I was fairly lucky in that i worked my way round a few drilling rigs and agencies before landing 2 company jobs with conoco and elf in the late 80s and early 90s. Now i run medics courses and other events as well as working locum shifts as a nurse in A/E and locum positions with the ambulance service. The point of my ramblings is this i still do the occasional offshore trip and the wages range between £180 and £230 per day, and the ambulance service offer almost £190 per shift, now that agenda for change has kicked in, It must be time that agencies look at offshore pay or the standard of medics that will accept offshore work will drop. Just my opinion chaps what do you all think >From: MICHAEL WYATT >Reply- > >Subject: Re: re-cert offshore >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:16:43 +0000 (GMT) > >High all, with regard to the problem of only being able to observe in A/E >depts. Earlier this year I was attempting to arrange a placement in my >local A/E dept in Dorset with the West Dorset Hospitals NHS trust, and it >turned out to be a total night mare from the word go. First of all he had >to attend an occy health screening, then have a complete CRB check, with >this completed he then had to complete an application form to obtain a >honorary works contract to enable him to get around the insurance/liability >problem. This whole procedure took months. > The only thing that I can suggest is that your training provider needs >to contact the local health authority concerned to try and get all of this >set up for you prior to to your re-cert date, but the problem being working >remote/off shore then getting to the hospital occy health and getting all >the other stuff sorted makes for a major headache without the pleasure of >getting drunk. Good luck Mike > >medic.PUQ@... wrote: > Hi gents, > >I can give you the definitive answer on this matter, as it happened to me >earlier this year. My certificate ran out on the Thursday prior to >commencing my Refresher course on the following Monday. > >Prior to my certificate expiring I got in touch with Capita who gave me an >E Mail adress at the HSE to apply for an exemption certificate (knew I >should have kept the E Mail Address). > >I sent an E mail to the HSE explaining the reasons why I was unable to >attend before the Run Out Date, they sent me back a reply the same day, >which I then forwarded onto Capita. Without an exemption certificate, you >will have to resit the whole course again. > >While on the subject of training, TOTAL have arranged for us to attend a >one week training course in the A & E department at the Aberdeen Royal >Infirmary. We have now been told that this will be purely observing, we >cannot participate in anything due to medical Insurance liability. > >Has anyone else come across this problem. If this is to be the norm from >now on, then is the one weeks hospital attachment that is part of the Four >week course now necessary, maybe it should be replaced with something >else. Any thoughts, I know that I would like some other topics put into >the Medics course that are applicable to the Offshore Medics >Medical/Environmental/ Health Workscope. > >regards > >Neil Poole > > > > > " Dave Olley " >Sent by: >14/12/2005 15:12 >Please respond to > > > > cc: > Subject: Re: re-cert offshore > > >Hi is it true that you have a year from offshore cert expiry to re-sit >it again >--------- > >To the best of my knowledge you have to do the full 4 weeks if you don't >commence your refresher before the expiry date. > >DaveO > > > > > >Member Information: > >List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... >Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... > >ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent >to the list owner. > >Post message: egroups > >Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > >Regards > >The Remote Medics Team > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 650 a day. Give me the link Thankyou, Lee O'Shea Case Study Manager A/E Spec Government operations logcap III Iraq Email:leeoshea1000@... Email:lee.oshea@... >From: gcline226@... >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Medics Pay >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 05:02:38 EST > >we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat zone for less than >650/day you are doing everybody a disservice > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Hehe, I think I would rather keep my mouth shut regarding pay or day rate. I do not wish to embarrass myself. I cincerely hope you guys get the raises you seek. Once you have completed the fight, let me know what procedure you followed, so I can follow the same. Regards J On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:56:04 +0000 " lee oshea " <leeoshea1000@...> wrote: >650 a day. Give me the link > > > >Thankyou, >Lee O'Shea >Case Study Manager A/E Spec >Government operations logcap III Iraq >Email:leeoshea1000@... >Email:lee.oshea@... > > > > > >>From: gcline226@... >>Reply- >> >>Subject: Re: Medics Pay >>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 05:02:38 EST >> >>we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat >zone for less than >>650/day you are doing everybody a disservice >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 > > we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat zone for less than > 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Sorry Guys, But in all honesty I will accept a vacancy for 150 pounds a day, since that will alraidy be quite a bit more than I am getting now. Not to mention that it will be tax free. Regards J On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:08:40 -0000 " shortmarine1969 " <shortmarine1969@...> wrote: > >> >> we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat >zone for less >than >> 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 , If you will accept that and you have all your certificates then why are you on the rust bucket...even if the painters are sprucing it up, there are heaps of jobs all over the place paying far more than £150 a day and they really want you to work for them......because Wilf and I have told them all about you....sooooo, what is stopping you dear boy. P. Oh and thanks for the blessings...everything comes in handy ! Rundle <jrundle@...> wrote: Sorry Guys, But in all honesty I will accept a vacancy for 150 pounds a day, since that will alraidy be quite a bit more than I am getting now. Not to mention that it will be tax free. Regards J On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:08:40 -0000 " shortmarine1969 " <shortmarine1969@...> wrote: > >> >> we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat >zone for less >than >> 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Hi , Thats the problem by accpting a lower wage, it drives down the rates for us all. A mortgage in the UK is expensive you know. The rate in the North Sea has been fairly stable but it will soon start going down if people accept lower than what should be a standard rate accross the board. Basically you should ask to be paid the same. Regards Chas Rundle <jrundle@...> wrote: Sorry Guys, But in all honesty I will accept a vacancy for 150 pounds a day, since that will alraidy be quite a bit more than I am getting now. Not to mention that it will be tax free. Regards J On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:08:40 -0000 " shortmarine1969 " <shortmarine1969@...> wrote: > >> >> we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat >zone for less >than >> 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 in the controlled markets in USA and N Sea,the entry bits of paper(and so standards)are strict,and the rate fairly static and fixed at a higher end. In international,and not just Iraq, the entry req tend to be less clearly defined.Companies often pay rates according to the country of origins pay rate-usually a wee bit more. So often you will see medics from places where rates are lower. and companies may punt a local or other country doctor who earns a damm bit less than the lowest paid medic. but there is the lack of tax,and you see the world and get lots of time off to see your own country/run a company/do charity work or just write that book you always wanted too. if you are happy with the rate-your happy. some other guys will get more,but if thats their happy script thats fine. Fraser --- shortmarine1969 <shortmarine1969@...> wrote: > > > > > we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a > combat zone for less > than > > 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > maybe i might burst you bubble a bit but there are > plenty of ex > military medics around who will take a lot less than > 650 a day as they > have allready been in Iraq for around 50- 70 pounds > a day with the > mob...sad to say but the rates around at the moment > are good and won,t > last as more and more companys employ asian staff > (medics included) for > a lot lower rate than we will work for. you can > allready see this all > over Iraq...my view is we are not the rare commodity > you think we are > unless you are employed by a well established top > end company. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 In all honesty, I do not seem to know who these people or companies are. Every single vacancy advertised (or most of them) anyway get a CV from me. It seems the biggest scare for them is the fact that I am South African (The whole darkest africa idea). After some thought, should I accept a vacancy like that, I will cut you guys short and I hate doing that to people I see as friends. I have a family to look after, same as all or most of you out there. Regards J On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:47:16 +0000 (GMT) peter mitchell <treetop_bay@...> wrote: >, > > If you will accept that and you have all your >certificates then why are you on the rust bucket...even if >the painters are sprucing it up, there are heaps of jobs >all over the place paying far more than £150 a day and >they really want you to work for them......because Wilf >and I have told them all about you....sooooo, what is >stopping you dear boy. > > P. > > Oh and thanks for the blessings...everything comes in >handy ! > > Rundle <jrundle@...> wrote: > Sorry Guys, > >But in all honesty I will accept a vacancy for 150 pounds >a >day, since that will alraidy be quite a bit more than I am >getting now. Not to mention that it will be tax free. > >Regards > >J > >On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:08:40 -0000 > " shortmarine1969 " <shortmarine1969@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat >>zone for less >>than >>> 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 Hi I am currently working for KBR in Iraq. They have a shortage of medics but they wont take medics from South Africa any more. If you look at protocols and drugs given it is almost the same as in the states. I know the South African medics got a wider scope of practise on the road without asking permission to give curtain drugs. But like you say if you say you from South Africa then people will still ask you where in Africa " Congo, Nigeria, Chad: " No South Africa. The medics in SA get exposed to a lot of trauma, mascal medical. When i was still working in Sandton a few guys from the UK worked with us on the road and to say the least the where amazed. Rundle <jrundle@...> wrote: In all honesty, I do not seem to know who these people or companies are. Every single vacancy advertised (or most of them) anyway get a CV from me. It seems the biggest scare for them is the fact that I am South African (The whole darkest africa idea). After some thought, should I accept a vacancy like that, I will cut you guys short and I hate doing that to people I see as friends. I have a family to look after, same as all or most of you out there. Regards J On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:47:16 +0000 (GMT) peter mitchell wrote: >, > > If you will accept that and you have all your >certificates then why are you on the rust bucket...even if >the painters are sprucing it up, there are heaps of jobs >all over the place paying far more than £150 a day and >they really want you to work for them......because Wilf >and I have told them all about you....sooooo, what is >stopping you dear boy. > > P. > > Oh and thanks for the blessings...everything comes in >handy ! > > Rundle wrote: > Sorry Guys, > >But in all honesty I will accept a vacancy for 150 pounds >a >day, since that will alraidy be quite a bit more than I am >getting now. Not to mention that it will be tax free. > >Regards > >J > >On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:08:40 -0000 > " shortmarine1969 " wrote: >> >>> >>> we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat >>zone for less >>than >>> 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Hi , Cale' here. How is it working for KBR in Iraq? Whats your rotation?Salary? I saw that they were looking for medics in " Rigzone " and am curious. I'm currently offshore in Qatar, but my contract has suddenly(without warning) coming to an end at the end of the month. Cheers, robert language <rlanguage2002@...> wrote: Hi I am currently working for KBR in Iraq. They have a shortage of medics but they wont take medics from South Africa any more. If you look at protocols and drugs given it is almost the same as in the states. I know the South African medics got a wider scope of practise on the road without asking permission to give curtain drugs. But like you say if you say you from South Africa then people will still ask you where in Africa " Congo, Nigeria, Chad: " No South Africa. The medics in SA get exposed to a lot of trauma, mascal medical. When i was still working in Sandton a few guys from the UK worked with us on the road and to say the least the where amazed. Rundle <jrundle@...> wrote: In all honesty, I do not seem to know who these people or companies are. Every single vacancy advertised (or most of them) anyway get a CV from me. It seems the biggest scare for them is the fact that I am South African (The whole darkest africa idea). After some thought, should I accept a vacancy like that, I will cut you guys short and I hate doing that to people I see as friends. I have a family to look after, same as all or most of you out there. Regards J On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:47:16 +0000 (GMT) peter mitchell wrote: >, > > If you will accept that and you have all your >certificates then why are you on the rust bucket...even if >the painters are sprucing it up, there are heaps of jobs >all over the place paying far more than £150 a day and >they really want you to work for them......because Wilf >and I have told them all about you....sooooo, what is >stopping you dear boy. > > P. > > Oh and thanks for the blessings...everything comes in >handy ! > > Rundle wrote: > Sorry Guys, > >But in all honesty I will accept a vacancy for 150 pounds >a >day, since that will alraidy be quite a bit more than I am >getting now. Not to mention that it will be tax free. > >Regards > >J > >On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:08:40 -0000 > " shortmarine1969 " wrote: >> >>> >>> we are a commodity, if a medic goes to work in a combat >>zone for less >>than >>> 650/day you are doing everybody a disservice >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Rundle <jrundle@...> wrote: In all honesty, I do not seem to know who these people or companies are. Every single vacancy advertised (or most of them) anyway get a CV from me. It seems the biggest scare for them is the fact that I am South African (The whole darkest africa idea). N O P E They seem to be just as scared from a Canadian from the wide white North ))))))))))))))))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 What suprises me (only a little bit) is that considering the price of oil per barrel and the prices drilling rigs are charging especialy over the last year or so, medic wages (not to mention most other service hands) has not gone up much if at all. I did note wages offered went up slightly 4 or 5 months ago but that seems to have disappeared. Which makes me wonder if A. the oil companies are refusing to pay more to the agencys or B. the agencys are keeping the difference and not passing it on to the income generators? With out causing a mushroom cloud what do you all think? Regards Tom G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 So, what sort of daily rate should a Medic/Safety Officer command.? Rab Aitken Medic/Safety Officer(To be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hello there guys, This is a tough issue and for me it just got tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was told that it all comes down to the bottom line. Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it while you can because with growing " open trade " agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian market. Bean counters don't care a whit about quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all the other tasks one Western individual takes on and they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being lost to the asian market. With numbers like this facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better develop and define our value added skills and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when we could actually buy a house and support a family on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions about where to take this from here. Best, Steve <lisamitch50@...> wrote: Rab, I think every Medic on the list will say " As much as they will give us " . Each rig or platform (that I have been on) have a differing role for the medics. Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic Remote Support Paramedic A.C.E. Personal Trainer Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist ermedicsp@... " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to stand here and wait " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " medical providers either. E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, often speak excellent english, and have extensive medical training. Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the purse strings to loosen up for an expensive western medic is substandard treatment of an expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical provider. This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result in case law that favors hiring western medics. Case in point: there is a case you can read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation Board, which awarded an undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in Kazakhstan who came down with shingles, was treated in the company clinic by a PA who did not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat him for post-herpetic neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement that the employee was due the same level of care as he would have gotten at home in Alaska. Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a matter of record, and will be held up in court as such. Judges and juries don't have much sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino gynecologists equipped with a bible and some bandaids (not that I have anything against Philipino gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my first choice for staffing a remote site clinic) to take care of their employees while they rake in $68 a barrel. That said, I sometime think that there are companies that actually sit down and do the math to figure out how much they are likely to spend on lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come out that lawsuits are cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees isn't a big deal to them. Cost of doing business. Jim On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce wrote: > Hello there guys, > This is a tough issue and for me it just got tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was told that it all comes down to the bottom line. Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it while you can because with growing " open trade " agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian market. Bean counters don't care a whit about quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all the other tasks one Western individual takes on and they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being lost to the asian market. With numbers like this facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better develop and define our value added skills > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when we could actually buy a house and support a family on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions about where to take this from here. > Best, > Steve > > <lisamitch50@...> wrote: Rab, > > I think every Medic on the list will say " As much as they will give us " . > > Each rig or platform (that I have been on) have a differing role for the medics. > > > > > Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic > Remote Support Paramedic > A.C.E. Personal Trainer > Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist > ermedicsp@... > > " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to stand here and wait " > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 its not even as simple as western v others. they all earn different wages generally US at top,then BRIT,AUS,S.AFRICAN and so on. 18 thous a month-I wish! I get just above the asian level,and for that princly sum the company gets over 25 years of experience,numerous nursing degrees and post grads,experience as an icrc red cross delegate,ex management up to medical director level for one of the big medic/assistance companies,and a british sandhurst(our west point) trained medical officer with combat experience. but at this stage in life I aim for contentment and job satisfaction over dollar earning,and I am happy.some are still trying to pay bills,set up home etc and must maximise earnings now. but the corp issue of companies trying to get premium service for budget price is and always will be valid. hence lots of S. Africans running around china,khazakstan etc-look western,highly trained and cheap(compared to a yank). still we could all get phillipine or S African passports and demand 25k per month-that would confuse the issue! fraser --- Dawdy <jdawdy@...> wrote: > This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " medical > providers either. > E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, > often speak excellent > english, and have extensive medical training. > > Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the > purse strings to > loosen up for an expensive western medic is > substandard treatment of an > expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical > provider. > > This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result in > case law that > favors hiring western medics. Case in point: there > is a case you can > read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation > Board, which awarded an > undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in > Kazakhstan who came > down with shingles, was treated in the company > clinic by a PA who did > not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat him > for post-herpetic > neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement that > the employee was due > the same level of care as he would have gotten at > home in Alaska. > Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a > matter of record, and > will be held up in court as such. Judges and juries > don't have much > sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino > gynecologists equipped with > a bible and some bandaids (not that I have anything > against Philipino > gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my first > choice for staffing > a remote site clinic) to take care of their > employees while they rake in > $68 a barrel. > > That said, I sometime think that there are companies > that actually sit > down and do the math to figure out how much they are > likely to spend on > lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come > out that lawsuits are > cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees > isn't a big deal to > them. Cost of doing business. > > Jim > > > > > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce > wrote: > > Hello there guys, > > This is a tough issue and for me it just got > tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian > administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was > told that it all comes down to the bottom line. > Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while > western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems > to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and > $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they > come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it > while you can because with growing " open trade " > agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian > market. Bean counters don't care a whit about > quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can > hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all > the other tasks one Western individual takes on and > they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't > just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being > lost to the asian market. With numbers like this > facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better > develop and define our value added skills > > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will > be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when > we could actually buy a house and support a family > on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions > about where to take this from here. > > Best, > > Steve > > > > <lisamitch50@...> wrote: > Rab, > > > > I think every Medic on the list will say " As > much as they will give us " . > > > > Each rig or platform (that I have been on) > have a differing role for the medics. > > > > > > > > > > Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic > > Remote Support Paramedic > > A.C.E. Personal Trainer > > Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist > > ermedicsp@... > > > > " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to > stand here and wait " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > Member Information: > > > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > > Editor: Ross Boardman > Editor@... > > > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & > unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > > > > Post message: egroups > > > > Please visit our website > http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > > > Regards > > > > The Remote Medics Team > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Gents, I have been reading over everything that has been said and i have to pipe this in, no matter what we do, where we go thuroughout the world there will ALWAYS be a medically trained person out there from another country who will work for pennies on the dollar compared to what some of the western world medics get paid. The only way we as medics will ever see some kind of stability in our job market pushing our employers to continuing using medics is to stay on top of your job and become irreplaceable to that company. We have to prove to our employers that they hired us for a reason becuase if not your going to get the phillipine GYN working your job in a couple of months. Stay trained and up to date with every kind of specialized training you can get so they can justify paying you what you get paid. Plus having the Tool Pushers, Company Men, or Barge masters on your side offten helps if they can pull strings. Honestly everybody, the only way for us to make a voice for ourselves and to push our way in to making these companies respect us and respect our jobs is one of 2 ways. The easy way, have one of them get hurt with that ine GYN, (No offence but they really dont have a whole lot of training when it comes to pulling people out of confined spaces or any number of places on a rig that doesnt have a woman giving birth) on the rig and see how he gets treated then tell him see if you would have had a medic who knew his job you would have been better off. The other way is for all the medical personnel working offshore to become a union of sorts and ban together but we all know that will never happen becuase some of these companies will go to the next lowest bidding company to put some jerk who doesnt know his ass from a hole in the ground on that vessel or remote location. Where does that leave us? Being the best that we can be and being the best trained medic so they can justify our job title on there payroll. J. fraser kelly <fraserkelly2001@...> wrote: its not even as simple as western v others. they all earn different wages generally US at top,then BRIT,AUS,S.AFRICAN and so on. 18 thous a month-I wish! I get just above the asian level,and for that princly sum the company gets over 25 years of experience,numerous nursing degrees and post grads,experience as an icrc red cross delegate,ex management up to medical director level for one of the big medic/assistance companies,and a british sandhurst(our west point) trained medical officer with combat experience. but at this stage in life I aim for contentment and job satisfaction over dollar earning,and I am happy.some are still trying to pay bills,set up home etc and must maximise earnings now. but the corp issue of companies trying to get premium service for budget price is and always will be valid. hence lots of S. Africans running around china,khazakstan etc-look western,highly trained and cheap(compared to a yank). still we could all get phillipine or S African passports and demand 25k per month-that would confuse the issue! fraser --- Dawdy <jdawdy@...> wrote: > This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " medical > providers either. > E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, > often speak excellent > english, and have extensive medical training. > > Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the > purse strings to > loosen up for an expensive western medic is > substandard treatment of an > expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical > provider. > > This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result in > case law that > favors hiring western medics. Case in point: there > is a case you can > read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation > Board, which awarded an > undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in > Kazakhstan who came > down with shingles, was treated in the company > clinic by a PA who did > not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat him > for post-herpetic > neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement that > the employee was due > the same level of care as he would have gotten at > home in Alaska. > Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a > matter of record, and > will be held up in court as such. Judges and juries > don't have much > sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino > gynecologists equipped with > a bible and some bandaids (not that I have anything > against Philipino > gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my first > choice for staffing > a remote site clinic) to take care of their > employees while they rake in > $68 a barrel. > > That said, I sometime think that there are companies > that actually sit > down and do the math to figure out how much they are > likely to spend on > lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come > out that lawsuits are > cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees > isn't a big deal to > them. Cost of doing business. > > Jim > > > > > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce > wrote: > > Hello there guys, > > This is a tough issue and for me it just got > tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian > administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was > told that it all comes down to the bottom line. > Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while > western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems > to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and > $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they > come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it > while you can because with growing " open trade " > agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian > market. Bean counters don't care a whit about > quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can > hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all > the other tasks one Western individual takes on and > they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't > just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being > lost to the asian market. With numbers like this > facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better > develop and define our value added skills > > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will > be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when > we could actually buy a house and support a family > on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions > about where to take this from here. > > Best, > > Steve > > > > <lisamitch50@...> wrote: > Rab, > > > > I think every Medic on the list will say " As > much as they will give us " . > > > > Each rig or platform (that I have been on) > have a differing role for the medics. > > > > > > > > > > Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic > > Remote Support Paramedic > > A.C.E. Personal Trainer > > Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist > > ermedicsp@... > > > > " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to > stand here and wait " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > Member Information: > > > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > > Editor: Ross Boardman > Editor@... > > > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & > unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > > > > Post message: egroups > > > > Please visit our website > http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > > > Regards > > > > The Remote Medics Team > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 The 18K a month was the figure quoted for an agency/company charging to the client, which is about right. In my experience, most companies charge between $500 and $1000US per day for a western medic (exclusive of CP or other high-risk type work). The medic is usually lucky if he gets half that. I'm surprised by the comment of US wages at the top, though that may be true in terms of actual earning power rather than dollars. For example, I never earned more than $275 a day working for a US company, whereas most UK medics seem to make around 200UK a day, which is about $360. I think though, that after taxes and cost of living, in terms of earning power 200UK is about the same as $275US. Jim ----- Start Original Message ----- From: fraser kelly <fraserkelly2001@...> Subject: Re: Medics Pay > its not even as simple as western v others. > they all earn different wages > generally US at top,then BRIT,AUS,S.AFRICAN and so on. > 18 thous a month-I wish! > I get just above the asian level,and for that princly > sum the company gets over 25 years of > experience,numerous nursing degrees and post > grads,experience as an icrc red cross delegate,ex > management up to medical director level for one of > the big medic/assistance companies,and a british > sandhurst(our west point) trained medical officer with > combat experience. > but at this stage in life I aim for contentment and > job satisfaction over dollar earning,and I am > happy.some are still trying to pay bills,set up home > etc and must maximise earnings now. > but the corp issue of companies trying to get premium > service for budget price is and always will be valid. > hence lots of S. Africans running around > china,khazakstan etc-look western,highly trained and > cheap(compared to a yank). > still we could all get phillipine or S African > passports and demand 25k per month-that would confuse > the issue! > fraser > > > --- Dawdy <jdawdy@...> wrote: > > > This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " medical > > providers either. > > E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, > > often speak excellent > > english, and have extensive medical training. > > > > Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the > > purse strings to > > loosen up for an expensive western medic is > > substandard treatment of an > > expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical > > provider. > > > > This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result in > > case law that > > favors hiring western medics. Case in point: there > > is a case you can > > read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation > > Board, which awarded an > > undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in > > Kazakhstan who came > > down with shingles, was treated in the company > > clinic by a PA who did > > not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat him > > for post-herpetic > > neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement that > > the employee was due > > the same level of care as he would have gotten at > > home in Alaska. > > Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a > > matter of record, and > > will be held up in court as such. Judges and juries > > don't have much > > sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino > > gynecologists equipped with > > a bible and some bandaids (not that I have anything > > against Philipino > > gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my first > > choice for staffing > > a remote site clinic) to take care of their > > employees while they rake in > > $68 a barrel. > > > > That said, I sometime think that there are companies > > that actually sit > > down and do the math to figure out how much they are > > likely to spend on > > lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come > > out that lawsuits are > > cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees > > isn't a big deal to > > them. Cost of doing business. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce > > wrote: > > > Hello there guys, > > > This is a tough issue and for me it just got > > tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian > > administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was > > told that it all comes down to the bottom line. > > Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while > > western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems > > to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and > > $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they > > come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it > > while you can because with growing " open trade " > > agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian > > market. Bean counters don't care a whit about > > quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can > > hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all > > the other tasks one Western individual takes on and > > they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't > > just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being > > lost to the asian market. With numbers like this > > facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better > > develop and define our value added skills > > > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will > > be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when > > we could actually buy a house and support a family > > on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions > > about where to take this from here. > > > Best, > > > Steve > > > > > > <lisamitch50@...> wrote: > > Rab, > > > > > > I think every Medic on the list will say " As > > much as they will give us " . > > > > > > Each rig or platform (that I have been on) > > have a differing role for the medics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic > > > Remote Support Paramedic > > > A.C.E. Personal Trainer > > > Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist > > > ermedicsp@... > > > > > > " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to > > stand here and wait " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Member Information: > > > > > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > > > Editor: Ross Boardman > > Editor@... > > > > > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & > > unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > > > > > > Post message: egroups > > > > > > Please visit our website > > http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > The Remote Medics Team > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 true! unfortunatly. 2 other points I have noticed over the last 15 years. 1-the percentage of fee passed to the medic has dropped,as companies tried to keep their profits as high as poss, without increasing the charges too much to the companies(too many providers out there who will undercut you if you go too high) 2-the satisfaction of the medics is related to their COMPARITIVE WAGES potential back home. in other words if you earn more medicing on remote sites compared to what you PERCIEVE as what you COULD earn at home-your happy. this includes tax,leave length, and also applies to local employed staff who can get more,than in the parent country health system. bottom line is we all have a choice,but some more than others. safe working to you all, and stay focused but happy-heck folk are paying me to see the world and meet other cultures. fraser --- jonathan <doc0908@...> wrote: > Gents, > > I have been reading over everything that has been > said and i have to pipe this in, no matter what we > do, where we go thuroughout the world there will > ALWAYS be a medically trained person out there from > another country who will work for pennies on the > dollar compared to what some of the western world > medics get paid. The only way we as medics will ever > see some kind of stability in our job market pushing > our employers to continuing using medics is to stay > on top of your job and become irreplaceable to that > company. We have to prove to our employers that they > hired us for a reason becuase if not your going to > get the phillipine GYN working your job in a couple > of months. Stay trained and up to date with every > kind of specialized training you can get so they can > justify paying you what you get paid. Plus having > the Tool Pushers, Company Men, or Barge masters on > your side offten helps if they can pull strings. > > Honestly everybody, the only way for us to make a > voice for ourselves and to push our way in to making > these companies respect us and respect our jobs is > one of 2 ways. The easy way, have one of them get > hurt with that ine GYN, (No offence but they > really dont have a whole lot of training when it > comes to pulling people out of confined spaces or > any number of places on a rig that doesnt have a > woman giving birth) on the rig and see how he gets > treated then tell him see if you would have had a > medic who knew his job you would have been better > off. The other way is for all the medical personnel > working offshore to become a union of sorts and ban > together but we all know that will never happen > becuase some of these companies will go to the next > lowest bidding company to put some jerk who doesnt > know his ass from a hole in the ground on that > vessel or remote location. Where does that leave us? > Being the best that we can be and being the best > trained medic so they can justify our > job title on there payroll. > > J. > > fraser kelly <fraserkelly2001@...> wrote: > its not even as simple as western v others. > they all earn different wages > generally US at top,then BRIT,AUS,S.AFRICAN and so > on. > 18 thous a month-I wish! > I get just above the asian level,and for that > princly > sum the company gets over 25 years of > experience,numerous nursing degrees and post > grads,experience as an icrc red cross delegate,ex > management up to medical director level for one of > the big medic/assistance companies,and a british > sandhurst(our west point) trained medical officer > with > combat experience. > but at this stage in life I aim for contentment and > job satisfaction over dollar earning,and I am > happy.some are still trying to pay bills,set up > home > etc and must maximise earnings now. > but the corp issue of companies trying to get > premium > service for budget price is and always will be > valid. > hence lots of S. Africans running around > china,khazakstan etc-look western,highly trained > and > cheap(compared to a yank). > still we could all get phillipine or S African > passports and demand 25k per month-that would > confuse > the issue! > fraser > > > --- Dawdy <jdawdy@...> wrote: > > > This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " > medical > > providers either. > > E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, > > often speak excellent > > english, and have extensive medical training. > > > > Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the > > purse strings to > > loosen up for an expensive western medic is > > substandard treatment of an > > expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical > > provider. > > > > This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result > in > > case law that > > favors hiring western medics. Case in point: > there > > is a case you can > > read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation > > Board, which awarded an > > undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in > > Kazakhstan who came > > down with shingles, was treated in the company > > clinic by a PA who did > > not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat > him > > for post-herpetic > > neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement > that > > the employee was due > > the same level of care as he would have gotten at > > home in Alaska. > > Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a > > matter of record, and > > will be held up in court as such. Judges and > juries > > don't have much > > sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino > > gynecologists equipped with > > a bible and some bandaids (not that I have > anything > > against Philipino > > gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my > first > > choice for staffing > > a remote site clinic) to take care of their > > employees while they rake in > > $68 a barrel. > > > > That said, I sometime think that there are > companies > > that actually sit > > down and do the math to figure out how much they > are > > likely to spend on > > lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come > > out that lawsuits are > > cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees > > isn't a big deal to > > them. Cost of doing business. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce > > wrote: > > > Hello there guys, > > > This is a tough issue and for me it just got > > tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian > > administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was > > told that it all comes down to the bottom line. > > Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month > while > > western trained (more highly I suspect but it > seems > > to make little difference) cost between $18,000 > and > > $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they > > come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get > it > > while you can because with growing " open trade " > > agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry > asian > > market. Bean counters don't care a whit about > > quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies > can > > hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all > > > the other tasks one Western individual takes on > and > > they can put them all in the same cabin. It > isn't > > just manufacturing and computer jobs that are > being > > lost to the asian market. With numbers like this > > facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better > > develop and define our value added skills > > > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we > will > > be left sitting in the pub recalling the days > when > > we could actually buy a house and support a > family > > on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions > > about where to take this from here. > > > Best, > > > Steve > > > > > > <lisamitch50@...> > wrote: > > Rab, > > > > > > I think every Medic on the list will say > " As > === message truncated === ___________________________________________________________ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now. http://www..co.uk/blackberry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Just to clarify, it isn't the medics getting the big dollars, the figures I quoted are the AGENCY fees for the respective medics. Medics are getting somewhere around half of the agency fees give or take 10%, I'm guessing. Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic Remote Support Paramedic A.C.E. Personal Trainer Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist ermedicsp@... " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to stand here and wait " Re: Medics Pay its not even as simple as western v others. they all earn different wages generally US at top,then BRIT,AUS,S.AFRICAN and so on. 18 thous a month-I wish! I get just above the asian level,and for that princly sum the company gets over 25 years of experience,numerous nursing degrees and post grads,experience as an icrc red cross delegate,ex management up to medical director level for one of the big medic/assistance companies,and a british sandhurst(our west point) trained medical officer with combat experience. but at this stage in life I aim for contentment and job satisfaction over dollar earning,and I am happy.some are still trying to pay bills,set up home etc and must maximise earnings now. but the corp issue of companies trying to get premium service for budget price is and always will be valid. hence lots of S. Africans running around china,khazakstan etc-look western,highly trained and cheap(compared to a yank). still we could all get phillipine or S African passports and demand 25k per month-that would confuse the issue! fraser --- Dawdy <jdawdy@...> wrote: > This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " medical > providers either. > E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, > often speak excellent > english, and have extensive medical training. > > Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the > purse strings to > loosen up for an expensive western medic is > substandard treatment of an > expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical > provider. > > This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result in > case law that > favors hiring western medics. Case in point: there > is a case you can > read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation > Board, which awarded an > undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in > Kazakhstan who came > down with shingles, was treated in the company > clinic by a PA who did > not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat him > for post-herpetic > neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement that > the employee was due > the same level of care as he would have gotten at > home in Alaska. > Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a > matter of record, and > will be held up in court as such. Judges and juries > don't have much > sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino > gynecologists equipped with > a bible and some bandaids (not that I have anything > against Philipino > gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my first > choice for staffing > a remote site clinic) to take care of their > employees while they rake in > $68 a barrel. > > That said, I sometime think that there are companies > that actually sit > down and do the math to figure out how much they are > likely to spend on > lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come > out that lawsuits are > cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees > isn't a big deal to > them. Cost of doing business. > > Jim > > > > > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce > wrote: > > Hello there guys, > > This is a tough issue and for me it just got > tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian > administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was > told that it all comes down to the bottom line. > Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while > western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems > to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and > $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they > come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it > while you can because with growing " open trade " > agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian > market. Bean counters don't care a whit about > quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can > hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all > the other tasks one Western individual takes on and > they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't > just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being > lost to the asian market. With numbers like this > facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better > develop and define our value added skills > > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will > be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when > we could actually buy a house and support a family > on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions > about where to take this from here. > > Best, > > Steve > > > > <lisamitch50@...> wrote: > Rab, > > > > I think every Medic on the list will say " As > much as they will give us " . > > > > Each rig or platform (that I have been on) > have a differing role for the medics. > > > > > > > > > > Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic > > Remote Support Paramedic > > A.C.E. Personal Trainer > > Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist > > ermedicsp@... > > > > " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to > stand here and wait " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > Member Information: > > > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > > Editor: Ross Boardman > Editor@... > > > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & > unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > > > > Post message: egroups > > > > Please visit our website > http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > > > Regards > > > > The Remote Medics Team > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Jim, This is very true and rightly so as those of you in the U.K. are required to pay for ALL your own certs and professional upkeep. In the US many of us have our HUET and BSS as well as some other certs paid for by the employer. However I have yet to find a company that covers any of the roughly $1500-$2000 per year I have to shell out to stay current and (arguably) competent. My big issues in the US come from trying to keep clinical skills up to date. Unless I can find an institution to employ me on my " off " time with my whacked schedule (and I have been trying for four years), maintaining clinical skills requires more begging, pleading and cajoling than I can stand. It all seems to get done but it is never a smooth or seamless effort. I have enough certs to paper a big wall to that effort . - Steve ps-I agree that making oneself " indispensible " by being an exemplary medic is the only way to take on this issue. Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic Remote Support Paramedic A.C.E. Personal Trainer Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist ermedicsp@... " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to stand here and wait " Re: Medics Pay > its not even as simple as western v others. > they all earn different wages > generally US at top,then BRIT,AUS,S.AFRICAN and so on. > 18 thous a month-I wish! > I get just above the asian level,and for that princly > sum the company gets over 25 years of > experience,numerous nursing degrees and post > grads,experience as an icrc red cross delegate,ex > management up to medical director level for one of > the big medic/assistance companies,and a british > sandhurst(our west point) trained medical officer with > combat experience. > but at this stage in life I aim for contentment and > job satisfaction over dollar earning,and I am > happy.some are still trying to pay bills,set up home > etc and must maximise earnings now. > but the corp issue of companies trying to get premium > service for budget price is and always will be valid. > hence lots of S. Africans running around > china,khazakstan etc-look western,highly trained and > cheap(compared to a yank). > still we could all get phillipine or S African > passports and demand 25k per month-that would confuse > the issue! > fraser > > > --- Dawdy <jdawdy@...> wrote: > > > This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " medical > > providers either. > > E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, > > often speak excellent > > english, and have extensive medical training. > > > > Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the > > purse strings to > > loosen up for an expensive western medic is > > substandard treatment of an > > expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical > > provider. > > > > This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result in > > case law that > > favors hiring western medics. Case in point: there > > is a case you can > > read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation > > Board, which awarded an > > undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in > > Kazakhstan who came > > down with shingles, was treated in the company > > clinic by a PA who did > > not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat him > > for post-herpetic > > neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement that > > the employee was due > > the same level of care as he would have gotten at > > home in Alaska. > > Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a > > matter of record, and > > will be held up in court as such. Judges and juries > > don't have much > > sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino > > gynecologists equipped with > > a bible and some bandaids (not that I have anything > > against Philipino > > gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my first > > choice for staffing > > a remote site clinic) to take care of their > > employees while they rake in > > $68 a barrel. > > > > That said, I sometime think that there are companies > > that actually sit > > down and do the math to figure out how much they are > > likely to spend on > > lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come > > out that lawsuits are > > cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees > > isn't a big deal to > > them. Cost of doing business. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce > > wrote: > > > Hello there guys, > > > This is a tough issue and for me it just got > > tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian > > administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was > > told that it all comes down to the bottom line. > > Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while > > western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems > > to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and > > $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they > > come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it > > while you can because with growing " open trade " > > agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian > > market. Bean counters don't care a whit about > > quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can > > hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all > > the other tasks one Western individual takes on and > > they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't > > just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being > > lost to the asian market. With numbers like this > > facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better > > develop and define our value added skills > > > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will > > be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when > > we could actually buy a house and support a family > > on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions > > about where to take this from here. > > > Best, > > > Steve > > > > > > <lisamitch50@...> wrote: > > Rab, > > > > > > I think every Medic on the list will say " As > > much as they will give us " . > > > > > > Each rig or platform (that I have been on) > > have a differing role for the medics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic > > > Remote Support Paramedic > > > A.C.E. Personal Trainer > > > Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist > > > ermedicsp@... > > > > > > " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to > > stand here and wait " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Member Information: > > > > > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > > > Editor: Ross Boardman > > Editor@... > > > > > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & > > unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > > > > > > Post message: egroups > > > > > > Please visit our website > > http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > The Remote Medics Team > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Steve, This is not strictly true for the UK as, once you get a regular slot, your company pays for all your compulsory courses (medic refresher HUET & medical fitness cert) some medical agencies also pay for them as well. Best wishes Re: Medics Pay Jim, This is very true and rightly so as those of you in the U.K. are required to pay for ALL your own certs and professional upkeep. In the US many of us have our HUET and BSS as well as some other certs paid for by the employer. However I have yet to find a company that covers any of the roughly $1500-$2000 per year I have to shell out to stay current and (arguably) competent. My big issues in the US come from trying to keep clinical skills up to date. Unless I can find an institution to employ me on my " off " time with my whacked schedule (and I have been trying for four years), maintaining clinical skills requires more begging, pleading and cajoling than I can stand. It all seems to get done but it is never a smooth or seamless effort. I have enough certs to paper a big wall to that effort . - Steve ps-I agree that making oneself " indispensible " by being an exemplary medic is the only way to take on this issue. Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic Remote Support Paramedic A.C.E. Personal Trainer Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist ermedicsp@... " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to stand here and wait " Re: Medics Pay > its not even as simple as western v others. > they all earn different wages > generally US at top,then BRIT,AUS,S.AFRICAN and so on. > 18 thous a month-I wish! > I get just above the asian level,and for that princly > sum the company gets over 25 years of > experience,numerous nursing degrees and post > grads,experience as an icrc red cross delegate,ex > management up to medical director level for one of > the big medic/assistance companies,and a british > sandhurst(our west point) trained medical officer with > combat experience. > but at this stage in life I aim for contentment and > job satisfaction over dollar earning,and I am > happy.some are still trying to pay bills,set up home > etc and must maximise earnings now. > but the corp issue of companies trying to get premium > service for budget price is and always will be valid. > hence lots of S. Africans running around > china,khazakstan etc-look western,highly trained and > cheap(compared to a yank). > still we could all get phillipine or S African > passports and demand 25k per month-that would confuse > the issue! > fraser > > > --- Dawdy <jdawdy@...> wrote: > > > This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " medical > > providers either. > > E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, > > often speak excellent > > english, and have extensive medical training. > > > > Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the > > purse strings to > > loosen up for an expensive western medic is > > substandard treatment of an > > expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical > > provider. > > > > This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result in > > case law that > > favors hiring western medics. Case in point: there > > is a case you can > > read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation > > Board, which awarded an > > undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in > > Kazakhstan who came > > down with shingles, was treated in the company > > clinic by a PA who did > > not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat him > > for post-herpetic > > neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement that > > the employee was due > > the same level of care as he would have gotten at > > home in Alaska. > > Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a > > matter of record, and > > will be held up in court as such. Judges and juries > > don't have much > > sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino > > gynecologists equipped with > > a bible and some bandaids (not that I have anything > > against Philipino > > gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my first > > choice for staffing > > a remote site clinic) to take care of their > > employees while they rake in > > $68 a barrel. > > > > That said, I sometime think that there are companies > > that actually sit > > down and do the math to figure out how much they are > > likely to spend on > > lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come > > out that lawsuits are > > cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees > > isn't a big deal to > > them. Cost of doing business. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce > > wrote: > > > Hello there guys, > > > This is a tough issue and for me it just got > > tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian > > administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was > > told that it all comes down to the bottom line. > > Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while > > western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems > > to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and > > $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they > > come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it > > while you can because with growing " open trade " > > agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian > > market. Bean counters don't care a whit about > > quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can > > hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all > > the other tasks one Western individual takes on and > > they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't > > just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being > > lost to the asian market. With numbers like this > > facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better > > develop and define our value added skills > > > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will > > be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when > > we could actually buy a house and support a family > > on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions > > about where to take this from here. > > > Best, > > > Steve > > > > > > <lisamitch50@...> wrote: > > Rab, > > > > > > I think every Medic on the list will say " As > > much as they will give us " . > > > > > > Each rig or platform (that I have been on) > > have a differing role for the medics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic > > > Remote Support Paramedic > > > A.C.E. Personal Trainer > > > Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist > > > ermedicsp@... > > > > > > " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to > > stand here and wait " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Member Information: > > > > > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > > > Editor: Ross Boardman > > Editor@... > > > > > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & > > unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > > > > > > Post message: egroups > > > > > > Please visit our website > > http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > The Remote Medics Team > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hi Guys, attending courses paid for my Companies varies from Company to company. Some offer no pay at all for compulsory courses, others offer a set amount of pay, one company I worked for it was £80 perday. Others you will get your Offshore rate and for the very lucky, you get an enhanced rate, as you have to do all courses in your own time. From past experience I know that one company I worked for, took 52% of the Daily rate that they charged for my services. regards Neil Stevan Pierce <ermedicsp@...> Sent by: 30/01/2006 10:21 Please respond to cc: Subject: Re: Medics Pay Jim, This is very true and rightly so as those of you in the U.K. are required to pay for ALL your own certs and professional upkeep. In the US many of us have our HUET and BSS as well as some other certs paid for by the employer. However I have yet to find a company that covers any of the roughly $1500-$2000 per year I have to shell out to stay current and (arguably) competent. My big issues in the US come from trying to keep clinical skills up to date. Unless I can find an institution to employ me on my " off " time with my whacked schedule (and I have been trying for four years), maintaining clinical skills requires more begging, pleading and cajoling than I can stand. It all seems to get done but it is never a smooth or seamless effort. I have enough certs to paper a big wall to that effort . - Steve ps-I agree that making oneself " indispensible " by being an exemplary medic is the only way to take on this issue. Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic Remote Support Paramedic A.C.E. Personal Trainer Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist ermedicsp@... " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to stand here and wait " Re: Medics Pay > its not even as simple as western v others. > they all earn different wages > generally US at top,then BRIT,AUS,S.AFRICAN and so on. > 18 thous a month-I wish! > I get just above the asian level,and for that princly > sum the company gets over 25 years of > experience,numerous nursing degrees and post > grads,experience as an icrc red cross delegate,ex > management up to medical director level for one of > the big medic/assistance companies,and a british > sandhurst(our west point) trained medical officer with > combat experience. > but at this stage in life I aim for contentment and > job satisfaction over dollar earning,and I am > happy.some are still trying to pay bills,set up home > etc and must maximise earnings now. > but the corp issue of companies trying to get premium > service for budget price is and always will be valid. > hence lots of S. Africans running around > china,khazakstan etc-look western,highly trained and > cheap(compared to a yank). > still we could all get phillipine or S African > passports and demand 25k per month-that would confuse > the issue! > fraser > > > --- Dawdy <jdawdy@...> wrote: > > > This is nothing new. It is not just " asian " medical > > providers either. > > E. European doctors and nurses are quite cheap, > > often speak excellent > > english, and have extensive medical training. > > > > Ultimately, the thing that usually influences the > > purse strings to > > loosen up for an expensive western medic is > > substandard treatment of an > > expatriate at the hands of a non-western medical > > provider. > > > > This results in lawsuits, and the lawsuits result in > > case law that > > favors hiring western medics. Case in point: there > > is a case you can > > read online of the Alaska Workers Compensation > > Board, which awarded an > > undisclosed sum to a Drilling employee in > > Kazakhstan who came > > down with shingles, was treated in the company > > clinic by a PA who did > > not have sufficient Acyclovir on hand to treat him > > for post-herpetic > > neuralgia. The board stated in its judgement that > > the employee was due > > the same level of care as he would have gotten at > > home in Alaska. > > Whether you agree with that or not, it is now a > > matter of record, and > > will be held up in court as such. Judges and juries > > don't have much > > sympathy for oil companies hiring Philipino > > gynecologists equipped with > > a bible and some bandaids (not that I have anything > > against Philipino > > gynecologists, except that they wouldnt be my first > > choice for staffing > > a remote site clinic) to take care of their > > employees while they rake in > > $68 a barrel. > > > > That said, I sometime think that there are companies > > that actually sit > > down and do the math to figure out how much they are > > likely to spend on > > lawsuits vs. health care, and if the numbers come > > out that lawsuits are > > cheaper, well, a few dead or disabled employees > > isn't a big deal to > > them. Cost of doing business. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 10:09 -0800, Stevan Pierce > > wrote: > > > Hello there guys, > > > This is a tough issue and for me it just got > > tougher. I just spoke to a formewre Asian > > administrator for a big Oil Services biz and was > > told that it all comes down to the bottom line. > > Asian " medics " are costing $3-5,000usd/month while > > western trained (more highly I suspect but it seems > > to make little difference) cost between $18,000 and > > $25,000usd/month depending upon which agency they > > come from. It isn't rocket science. Better get it > > while you can because with growing " open trade " > > agreements our jobs will be lost to the hungry asian > > market. Bean counters don't care a whit about > > quality of care or breadth of duties. Companies can > > hire two or three medics from Indonesia to do all > > the other tasks one Western individual takes on and > > they can put them all in the same cabin. It isn't > > just manufacturing and computer jobs that are being > > lost to the asian market. With numbers like this > > facing all of us in Remote Medicine we better > > develop and define our value added skills > > > and promote the bejeezuz out of them or we will > > be left sitting in the pub recalling the days when > > we could actually buy a house and support a family > > on what we " used to make " . I open to suggestions > > about where to take this from here. > > > Best, > > > Steve > > > > > > <lisamitch50@...> wrote: > > Rab, > > > > > > I think every Medic on the list will say " As > > much as they will give us " . > > > > > > Each rig or platform (that I have been on) > > have a differing role for the medics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stevan Pierce, WEMT-Paramedic > > > Remote Support Paramedic > > > A.C.E. Personal Trainer > > > Fitness, Health & Wellness Specialist > > > ermedicsp@... > > > > > > " some say a hero could save us, I'm not going to > > stand here and wait " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Member Information: > > > > > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > > > Editor: Ross Boardman > > Editor@... > > > > > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & > > unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > > > > > > Post message: egroups > > > > > > Please visit our website > > http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > The Remote Medics Team > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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