Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 - It is, and yet it's also slightly worrying, since there are good trans fats and bad ones. The naturally-occurring trans fats found, AFAIK, in minute quantities in butter and meat are healthful, but partially hydrogenated vegetable oils are obviously immensely harmful, but there's a real danger of (eventually) throwing the baby out with the bath water. >Check this SF Chronicle article and website out! This is hot! - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 Hi , Interesting take - and while I think it would be foolish to imagine that the powers that be WOULDN'T use a ban on trans to advocate a reduction or elimination in meat and dairy, I think the public wouldn't buy it. You would think we the people would be getting pretty suspicious of government pronouncements after 50 years of lipid hypothesis and 70 years of trans, plus the ridiculous 4 food groups and food pyramid. We'll see.... Re: Banning Trans Fats - It is, and yet it's also slightly worrying, since there are good trans fats and bad ones. The naturally-occurring trans fats found, AFAIK, in minute quantities in butter and meat are healthful, but partially hydrogenated vegetable oils are obviously immensely harmful, but there's a real danger of (eventually) throwing the baby out with the bath water. >Check this SF Chronicle article and website out! This is hot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 - You watch. Assuming the dangers of hydrogenation become publicized and enter the body of conventional wisdom, public hysteria over trans fats will whip up to monumental proportions -- and then people will start pointing out that butter and meat fat contain trans fats too, and it'll be low fat all over again. >You would think we the people would be getting pretty suspicious of >government pronouncements after 50 years of lipid hypothesis and 70 >years of trans, plus the ridiculous 4 food groups and food pyramid. >We'll see.... - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 and , While it's certainly possible, even probable, that some will make the accusation of dairy and meat containing bad trans-fats, I don't think it's likely to have much influence. The value of the natural trans-fats, trans-veccenic acid and CLA, is too widely valued already. CLA is sold as a supplement in health food stores. But the movement to ban trans-fats should make the protective move of calling itself a movement to ban hydrogenated oils. What's more dangerous, in my opinion, is the faulty logic they use of why trans-fats are bad. There's nothing wrong with a raise in LDLs itself, and LDLs per se do not contribute to artery depositions, VLDLs, a small subset of LDLs, do, and artery depositions are not necessarily a bad thing *per se*. Butter can raise LDL in many people too. Could butter be a target for *this* reason? And will anyone be there to make the distinction that butter raises HDL and lowers VLDLs, which have an inverse relationship with HDL? I don't think butter is a likely target because, depending on your view, it is either good for you or everyone knows its bad for you, so would fall outside the realm of the law. Also, in a a court case, margarine would be found guilty and butter vindicated by a jury hearing the evidence. Plus butter is a natural substance and hydrogenated oils are not. Still, I think we at least need to watch out for targeting of healthy foods as an offshoot of this campaign. Chris " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 > The naturally-occurring trans fats found, AFAIK, in > minute > quantities in butter and meat are healthful, but partially hydrogenated > vegetable oils are obviously immensely harmful, but there's a real > danger > of (eventually) throwing the baby out with the bath water. > > >Check this SF Chronicle article and website out! This is hot! The first article I read last summer about this, in a major news outlet, concluded the article by saying that trans fats are found in butter and animal fat. They never mentioned hydrogenated fats/oils. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Could it be that national security efforts to protect litigation against pharmaceutical companies will create a much bigger monster of food corporation lawsuits? All states have some form of child endangerment law. Just a thought. Agreed, . This is hot! Wanita At 08:59 PM 5/11/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >Check this SF Chronicle article and website out! This is hot! > > > > ><http://www.bantransfats.com/>http://www.bantransfats.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 I've been hearing about this lawsuit all day on news radio driving around. Most of the radio hosts reporting it are acting like it is one big joke and not taking it seriously at all. I don't understand why he is just picking on Nabisco. There are dozens of companies using transfats in their products. I do give him credit for trying to bring this issue to public attention though. Jafa Wanita Sears <wanitawa@...> wrote:Could it be that national security efforts to protect litigation against pharmaceutical companies will create a much bigger monster of food corporation lawsuits? All states have some form of child endangerment law. Just a thought. Agreed, . This is hot! Wanita At 08:59 PM 5/11/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >Check this SF Chronicle article and website out! This is hot! > > > > ><http://www.bantransfats.com/>http://www.bantransfats.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 >I don't understand why he is just picking on Nabisco. In law, you have to pick on one specific company and one specific product. Then, if you win the case, you have created a " precedent " . Precedents are how law works -- the first anti-cigarette lawsuits specified a specific company doing a few specific things based on some specific evidence. In the current " deregulation " climate though, I wonder if the food companies will eventually get protection from lawsuits. I mean, MOST of the American diet is really, really bad for human beings, and the government has been one of the big promoters of the " All foods can be part of a healthy diet " campaign (read: don't offend *any* of the lobbyists!). -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 The Establishment speaks. - From the Wall Street Journal, May 13, 2003, p. A18 San Francisco's Cookie Monster If you thought the real dangers to children's health were smoking, drugs or drunk driving, you are clearly old-fashioned. The new threat is from . . . Oreo cookies. That's the word from San Francisco -- of course -- where a local public interest lawyer has filed suit in Marin County superior court demanding that Nabisco be forced to cease-and-desist from selling America's favorite companion to milk. ph claims that the partially hydrogenated vegetable oil -- also known as trans fat -- used in both the cookie and the filling are simply too dangerous for children to eat. His suit comes in the wake of an Institute of Medicine report from last year that made the earth-shattering link between trans fat and cholesterol and heart disease. We only wish this were a joke, or a publicity stunt. Mr. ph's lawsuit happens to land in the middle of a bigger battle currently being waged between the Food and Drug Administration and food manufacturers over whether companies should have to include trans fat among the other ingredients listed on packages. Apparently Americans aren't clever enough to figure out for themselves that cookies aren't as healthy as broccoli. In a better legal system than ours, Mr. ph's suit would be laughed out of court. But the Oreo suit is also part of a broader plaintiffs' bar assault on foods of all kinds that taste good but are not always good for you. As any parent knows, this will sooner or later include everything that kids like to eat. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, trans fats are present in about 40% of the food that shoppers find in the local supermarket -- including cookies, crackers and popcorn. If Mr. ph and his legal buddies want to pursue this, somehow we think it's only fair that he have to face his main defendants face to face. No, not Nabisco, but the nation's five-year-olds. Let him tell them he wants to take away their cookies, pizza and ice cream. Re: Banning Trans Fats >I don't understand why he is just picking on Nabisco. In law, you have to pick on one specific company and one specific product. Then, if you win the case, you have created a " precedent " . Precedents are how law works -- the first anti-cigarette lawsuits specified a specific company doing a few specific things based on some specific evidence. In the current " deregulation " climate though, I wonder if the food companies will eventually get protection from lawsuits. I mean, MOST of the American diet is really, really bad for human beings, and the government has been one of the big promoters of the " All foods can be part of a healthy diet " campaign (read: don't offend *any* of the lobbyists!). -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Better yet all the mommies and daddies of the fast/convenience food generation who now hustle about to make ends meet, wonder why they're starting to fall apart at 40 and visit their parents in nursing homes. The grandparents caught the end of it. Wonder what the future would hold with children who question everything because they knew their parents and grandparents had stopped questioning? Wanita At 10:45 AM 5/14/03 -0700, you wrote: >The Establishment speaks. - >If Mr. ph and his legal buddies want to pursue this, somehow we >think it's only fair that he have to face his main defendants face to >face. No, not Nabisco, but the nation's five-year-olds. Let him tell >them he wants to take away their cookies, pizza and ice cream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 >>>> Wonder what the future would hold with children who question everything because they knew their parents and grandparents had stopped questioning? ------------->wonderfully put, wanita :-) it is time we all started doing just that, no matter our age. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 >If Mr. ph and his legal buddies want to pursue this, somehow we >think it's only fair that he have to face his main defendants face to >face. No, not Nabisco, but the nation's five-year-olds. Let him tell >them he wants to take away their cookies, pizza and ice cream. What is ironic about this is that most of the food companies *were* using coconut oil, which I'd think wouldn't need to be hydrogenated. They quit when there was an uproar (prompted by some clever advertising, perhaps) that the food companies were poisoning the little ones by feeding them saturated fats. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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