Re: Helios Kefir

[Guest guest]

I believe it is made with lowfat milk.

Helios Kefir

Hi,

Was wondering if anyone has tried the store bought organic kefir

by Helios? I know that once you perfect kefir making then homemade

is best. But I have to travel alot.

Any info is greatly appreciated.

Vee

[Guest guest]

Vee-

AFAIK all their kefir has FOS/Inulin added, which is a very bad thing.

>Was wondering if anyone has tried the store bought organic kefir

>by Helios?

-

[Guest guest]

Carol-

>What is very bad about FOS/Inulin? I have seen them in

>some store bought yogurts.

Vendors of FOS and Inulin (basically the same thing) like to tell you that

they're prebiotics which feed good bacteria in the gut, like bifida. What

they don't tell you (and what many proponants don't know) is that while

they may feed certain good bacteria effectively, certain bad ones grow

substantially more when fed FOS/Inulin.

Here's what Elaine Gottschall had to say on the subject:

>>In September of 1998, I was invited to participate in the SUSTAINABLE

>>medicine conference at Christ Church, Oxford University sponsored by the

>>Birtish Society of Sllergy, Evnironment and Nutrtional Medicine. Dr. Hugh

>> of the University of Newcaste of New South Wales, Australia

>>presented work he had done which showed that in a medium containing FOS,

>>the growth of Clostridium was huge far outgrowing other bacteria in FOS

>>medium. No one questioned him except me. He scratched his head when I

>>asked " why are the Clostridium growing at this exponential rate " and he

>>laughed and said " we wondered about it too. "

>>

>>This is the problem: other than the Cornell study on grain-fed cows there

>>is probably little scientific literature that supports anything but a

>>money generating product.

-

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone who responded to my question.

thanks for the researh info. Do you have any info about the

yeasts in the kefir cultures I know they are supposed to be good

yeast. But given the right breeding ground and even a compromised

immune system could the yeasts or even the bacteria become

pathogenic?

Thanks again

-Vee

--- In , " opalv214 " <opalv@h...>

wrote:

> Hi,

> Was wondering if anyone has tried the store bought organic kefir

> by Helios? I know that once you perfect kefir making then homemade

> is best. But I have to travel alot.

>

> Any info is greatly appreciated.

> Vee

[Guest guest]

Carol-

Stonyfield yoghurt has FOS in it? I didn't realize that. How alarming.

>Does anyone know off hand if Brown Cow or Seven Stars

>plain yogurt has this in it? The Stonyfield brand

>does.

-

[Guest guest]

Vee-

I wouldn't worry about the organisms in kefir becoming pathogenic in the

body any more than I'd worry about the organisms in good yoghurt or good

probiotics becoming pathogenic.

That said, bacteria will act in accordance with their environment, so if

you eat the wrong things, even the very best bacteria could have negative

effects.

>Do you have any info about the

>yeasts in the kefir cultures I know they are supposed to be good

>yeast. But given the right breeding ground and even a compromised

>immune system could the yeasts or even the bacteria become

>pathogenic?

-

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Carol-

>

> >What is very bad about FOS/Inulin? I have seen them in

> >some store bought yogurts.

>

> Vendors of FOS and Inulin (basically the same thing) like to

> tell you that they're prebiotics which feed good bacteria in

> the gut, like bifida. What they don't tell you (and what many

> proponants don't know) is that while they may feed certain good

> bacteria effectively, certain bad ones grow substantially more

> when fed FOS/Inulin.

Does that mean that foods containing FOS, like Jerusalem artichokes,

are unhealthy to eat?

[Guest guest]

-

I'd certainly avoid them.

>Does that mean that foods containing FOS, like Jerusalem artichokes,

>are unhealthy to eat?

-

[Guest guest]

> >What is very bad about FOS/Inulin? I have seen them in

> >some store bought yogurts.

>

> Vendors of FOS and Inulin (basically the same thing) like to

> tell you that they're prebiotics which feed good bacteria in

> the gut, like bifida. What they don't tell you (and what many

> proponants don't know) is that while they may feed certain good

> bacteria effectively, certain bad ones grow substantially more

> when fed FOS/Inulin.

>>>>Does that mean that foods containing FOS, like Jerusalem artichokes,

are unhealthy to eat?

----->, before you cut out foods from your diet that you enjoy, I'd

encourage you to do a little research of your own. My own research

contradicts Gottschall's position on FOS and inulin, and i found holes in

her theory which I have not seen addressed. Maybe she is completely correct

in her position on FOS and inulin, but so far, I haven't seen enough

evidence that I find convincing and I've read quite a bit of evidence to the

contrary. This is one area that and I just respectfully disagree on :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Helio Kefir is the one recommended in Donna Gates' book, Body Ecology Diet. I

am wondering how that fits into all of this.

Sonya

---- Original Message -----

From: Suze Fisher

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 5:04 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Helios Kefir

> >What is very bad about FOS/Inulin? I have seen them in

> >some store bought yogurts.

>

> Vendors of FOS and Inulin (basically the same thing) like to

> tell you that they're prebiotics which feed good bacteria in

> the gut, like bifida. What they don't tell you (and what many

> proponants don't know) is that while they may feed certain good

> bacteria effectively, certain bad ones grow substantially more

> when fed FOS/Inulin.

>>>>Does that mean that foods containing FOS, like Jerusalem artichokes,

are unhealthy to eat?

----->, before you cut out foods from your diet that you enjoy, I'd

encourage you to do a little research of your own. My own research

contradicts Gottschall's position on FOS and inulin, and i found holes in

her theory which I have not seen addressed. Maybe she is completely correct

in her position on FOS and inulin, but so far, I haven't seen enough

evidence that I find convincing and I've read quite a bit of evidence to the

contrary. This is one area that and I just respectfully disagree on :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>Helio Kefir is the one recommended in Donna Gates' book, Body Ecology

>Diet. I am wondering how that fits into all of this.

>

>Sonya

The thing about kefir is, it is SOOOO easy to make, and so much cheaper,

and so much better when you make it yourself! Helios isn't a bad option for

someone who wants to see what it is about, and I know people who had great

results with it, but it has only a fraction of the " good stuff " that is in

*real* kefir. I don' t know where I stand on the FOS stuff, but none of the

foods I usually eat have a lot of it, so it's a moot point. I tried

Jerusalem Artichokes once, grew them in fact (they are easy to grow) -- but

I just didn't like the taste much.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

the main reason i'm wondering about the helios kefir is that i gave the gates'

book to someone totally new to all of this with severe allergies, food and

otherwise, who is looking for answers--i don't want to lead her in the wrong

direction and i would think that the good bacteria/bad bacteria thing is very

important to her right now. i thought that the helios kefir would be a good

thing for her, as i doubt she is going to start right out making her own, at

least right off. but i'm wondering if it's better than none at all?

and for myself, i am wondering what is the best milk to start making kefir with?

i planned to use raw goat's milk, but it sounds like, from my readings here,

that pasteurized cow's milk (i can get non-homogenized) might be better??? i am

allergic to the usual pasteurized stuff, but seem to do okay on small amounts of

the raw goat milk (hate the taste, it has that barn taste, or farmy as we say at

our house).

Sonya

i really am amazed at how helpful this list is to me, everyone on here is so

knowledgeable and so willing to share, thank you!

Re: Re: Helios Kefir

>Helio Kefir is the one recommended in Donna Gates' book, Body Ecology

>Diet. I am wondering how that fits into all of this.

>

>Sonya

The thing about kefir is, it is SOOOO easy to make, and so much cheaper,

and so much better when you make it yourself! Helios isn't a bad option for

someone who wants to see what it is about, and I know people who had great

results with it, but it has only a fraction of the " good stuff " that is in

*real* kefir. I don' t know where I stand on the FOS stuff, but none of the

foods I usually eat have a lot of it, so it's a moot point. I tried

Jerusalem Artichokes once, grew them in fact (they are easy to grow) -- but

I just didn't like the taste much.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

of FOS and Inulin (basically the same thing)

What are these? I bought a yogurt drink on Sat that had this in it. It said

it was a fiber.

Michele

[Guest guest]

>

> >Helio Kefir is the one recommended in Donna Gates' book, Body

Ecology

> >Diet. I am wondering how that fits into all of this.

> >

> >Sonya

>

> The thing about kefir is, it is SOOOO easy to make, and so

> much cheaper, and so much better when you make it yourself!

The commercial stuff also has a lot of sugar in it; Lifeway contains

high fructose corn syrup, and Helios contains cane sugar.

[Guest guest]

ny,

I have a bottle of the Helios Kefir PLAIN. The PLAIN

version it has no added cane sugar. Of course there's

nothing like homemade kefir but if one wants to try

store bought I would choose Helios over Lifeway.

> >

> > >Helio Kefir is the one recommended in Donna Gates' book, Body

> Ecology

> > >Diet. I am wondering how that fits into all of this.

> > >

> > >Sonya

> >

> > The thing about kefir is, it is SOOOO easy to make, and so

> > much cheaper, and so much better when you make it yourself!

>

> The commercial stuff also has a lot of sugar in it; Lifeway contains

> high fructose corn syrup, and Helios contains cane sugar.

[Guest guest]

Michele-

>What are these? I bought a yogurt drink on Sat that had this in it. It said

>it was a fiber.

It is a sort of fiber -- basically polymerized fructose. It's found in

trace quantities in some fruits and vegetables and in very large quantities

in a couple, like Jerusalem artichokes. Industry has seized on FOS/Inulin

as being a powerful prebiotic because some studies showed that some good

gut bacteria (like bifida) fed well on it. However, if you dig hard enough

you'll find out that some other undesirable bacteria are fertilized even

better by FOS, calling its status as a prebiotic into serious question. As

the foundation of the SCD diet is avoiding fermentable carbs (but rather

fermenting outside the body before consumption when necessary -- as with

yoghurt, an excellent probiotic) FOS/Inulin is not considered legal on that

diet. Furthermore, there's abundant anecdotal evidence of its ability to

cause harm, at least in some cases, in the form of testimonials on various

SCD lists.

Perhaps for some people it's innocuous or even helpful, depending on the

existing flora in their guts, but even if that's true, why take such a

large risk?

-

[Guest guest]

>Perhaps for some people it's innocuous or even helpful, depending on the

>existing flora in their guts, but even if that's true, why take such a

>large risk?

I think there is some evidence that the resistant starches and soluable

fibers DO nourish good bacteria. Maybe they would nourish the bad ones if

they are there, but in a diet high in kefir that is unlikely. The resistant

starches break down, via bacteria, into butyrate which seems, in laboratory

studies, to really help people. And it seems to work in real life -- I

talked to someone who got rid of long-standing problems using butyrate

enemas, and another who used capsules (though I'd guess the caps would only

help the upper gut). So I started eating more soluable fiber, and, by golly

it works.

I don't know if the soluable fiber/resistant starch theory is the same as

the FOS theory, but I've had no problems with bacterial overgrowth from them.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>I think there is some evidence that the resistant starches and soluable

>fibers DO nourish good bacteria.

I never said otherwise, but there's also evidence that however much they

nourish good bacteria, they nourish certain bad ones far, far more. And

nobody knows their full effects, which in the vast universe of strains and

species of good and bad flora are nourished by FOS and to what degree, so

why take the risk? FOS certainly doesn't seem to be something that was

widely spread through the human food supply during our evolution, so

there's no way to argue it's essential.

>Maybe they would nourish the bad ones if

>they are there, but in a diet high in kefir that is unlikely.

Again, why take the risk? Nobody's gut is immune to all undesirables even

with perfect probiotics.

-

[Guest guest]

te:

>Heidi-

>

> >I think there is some evidence that the resistant starches and soluable

> >fibers DO nourish good bacteria.

>

>I never said otherwise, but there's also evidence that however much they

>nourish good bacteria, they nourish certain bad ones far, far more. And

>nobody knows their full effects, which in the vast universe of strains and

>species of good and bad flora are nourished by FOS and to what degree, so

>why take the risk? FOS certainly doesn't seem to be something that was

>widely spread through the human food supply during our evolution, so

>there's no way to argue it's essential.

Well, sheesh, , *anything* will nourish both kinds of bacteria!

Including a good raw beefsteak. I grow bacteria all the time, and yeast,

good and bad (the bad ones are usually in the worm bin pail!). Bad bacteria

don't flourish around kefir, and this is easily proven in a container on

your counter.

As for why take the risk: because there is good evidence that butyrate is

good for the gut. And to produce butyrate, you need resistant starches or

soluable fiber. Though I think it is likely it can also be produced from

fat (butyrate is found outside your intestines only in rancid butter!).

Anyway, since I added soluable fiber I am doing SOOOO much better. Note

that I am not talking about FOS per se. Though kefir produces lots of

polysaccharides, which are likely FOS-like in their effects.

>Again, why take the risk? Nobody's gut is immune to all undesirables even

>with perfect probiotics.

Actually I'm not sure if that is true or not -- my kefir seems to be

*absolutely* immune to undesirables. It sits on my counter getting fresh

milk, air germs, hand germs. I put some in the chicken pail with plate

scrapings and old everything and it sits for days sometimes -- and smells

like good kefir.

Ditto my gut -- I ate a HUGE baked potato the other day smothered with

stuff -- I don't generally eat that much but these potatoes were just

wonderful -- and got zero reaction to all that starch. Though, mind you, a

tiny bit of wheat cookie or certain types of rice will set me off for days.

So, if I can have perfect digestion and good health and a stable blood

sugar without having a terribly restrictive diet, why not?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

> te:

> >Heidi-

> >

> > >I think there is some evidence that the resistant starches and

soluable

> > >fibers DO nourish good bacteria.

> >

> >I never said otherwise, but there's also evidence that however

much they

> >nourish good bacteria, they nourish certain bad ones far, far

more. And

> >nobody knows their full effects, which in the vast universe of

strains and

> >species of good and bad flora are nourished by FOS and to what

degree, so

> >why take the risk? FOS certainly doesn't seem to be something

that was

> >widely spread through the human food supply during our evolution,

<>><><<><<><<<> there are native (weeds so to speak)jerusaleum

artichokes in our timber which I believe Native Americans ate. Dennis

so

> >there's no way to argue it's essential.

>

> Well, sheesh, , *anything* will nourish both kinds of bacteria!

> Including a good raw beefsteak.

<><<><<<<<<<>Heidi: Especially some *anything* which is nutrient

dense. Blood agar is used to grow many " microbes " in the lab. which

will grow nearly nowhere else. Dennis

I grow bacteria all the time, and yeast,

> good and bad (the bad ones are usually in the worm bin pail!). Bad

bacteria

> don't flourish around kefir, and this is easily proven in a

container on

> your counter.

>

> As for why take the risk: because there is good evidence that

butyrate is

> good for the gut. And to produce butyrate, you need resistant

starches or

> soluable fiber. Though I think it is likely it can also be produced

from

> fat (butyrate is found outside your intestines only in rancid

butter!).

> Anyway, since I added soluable fiber I am doing SOOOO much better.

Note

> that I am not talking about FOS per se. Though kefir produces lots

of

> polysaccharides, which are likely FOS-like in their effects.

>

>

> >Again, why take the risk? Nobody's gut is immune to all

undesirables even

> >with perfect probiotics.

>

> Actually I'm not sure if that is true or not -- my kefir seems to

be

> *absolutely* immune to undesirables. It sits on my counter getting

fresh

> milk, air germs, hand germs. I put some in the chicken pail with

plate

> scrapings and old everything and it sits for days sometimes -- and

smells

> like good kefir.

>

> Ditto my gut -- I ate a HUGE baked potato the other day smothered

with

> stuff -- I don't generally eat that much but these potatoes were

just

> wonderful -- and got zero reaction to all that starch. Though, mind

you, a

> tiny bit of wheat cookie or certain types of rice will set me off

for days.

>

> So, if I can have perfect digestion and good health and a stable

blood

> sugar without having a terribly restrictive diet, why not?

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

> te:

> >Heidi-

> >

> > Actually I'm not sure if that is true or not -- my kefir seems to

be

> *absolutely* immune to undesirables. It sits on my counter getting

fresh

> milk, air germs, hand germs. I put some in the chicken pail with

plate

> scrapings and old everything and it sits for days sometimes -- and

smells

> like good kefir.

>

>

Heidi does the kefir allow mold growth after 4 or 5 days? Or longer

in the refrigerator? Dennis

[Guest guest]

>Heidi does the kefir allow mold growth after 4 or 5 days? Or longer

>in the refrigerator? Dennis

I dunno -- mine has never molded. The longest I kept it was 2 months in the

fridge. After awhile mine goes " thin " (it's usually very thick). The cheese

I make from it doesn't mold, and bread made from it doesn't mold. The

chicken-food-kefir doesn't mold either. Maybe it is full of bisulfates

(joke! But it must have some anti-mold chemical that survives baking.) But

I hear from other people that their kefir HAS molded so it might vary, and

some people have made " aged " cheeses with kefir that are covered in white

mold (on purpose).

I bought some Helios and it was in the fridge because no on liked it, for

about a month, and it didn't mold either. So if you want to grow mold,

kefir is a bad choice!

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Dennis-

I'm not sure that means anything, though. In all his travels, Price found

many peoples eating all kinds of things, but most of them weren't exactly

paragons of health, so the mere fact that some people once ate something

doesn't mean it's healthy.

> there are native (weeds so to speak)jerusaleum

>artichokes in our timber which I believe Native Americans ate.

-

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>What do you use to sweeten your kefir and yogurt?

>

>Jafa

My kefir isn't very sour, so it doesn't need sweetener, really. We make

smoothies with kefir and a fruit, usually a banana. My husband however,

eats it in a big bowl combined with commercial yogurt and sherbert (not

very NT).

My kefir, as has been brought up before, is kefiili: a thick, gooey,

not-sour stuff that doesn't pour, because it has some viili bacteria in it

(which has a different strain of Leuoconostoc Cremoris in it). This makes

it not very sour -- the lactose turns into polysaccharides instead of

lactic acid, so it is really mild. Running it through the blender thins it

right up: otherwise it has the consistency of kid's Gak (that slime stuff

they play with). I'm happy to share grains with anyone who wants it, but

it's one of those things you either love or hate! (we love it: we didn't

like " straight " kefir much).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I will take you up on that offer! Your kefir sounds like what I am

trying to make and I am very leary about those grains I was using

with the milk that I now think was bad! You can email me with the

particulars. When I get mind going I will be glad to share!

Thanks in advance,

Del

>

> >Heidi,

> >

> >What do you use to sweeten your kefir and yogurt?

> >

> >Jafa

>

> My kefir isn't very sour, so it doesn't need sweetener, really. We

make

> smoothies with kefir and a fruit, usually a banana. My husband

however,

> eats it in a big bowl combined with commercial yogurt and sherbert

(not

> very NT).

>

> My kefir, as has been brought up before, is kefiili: a thick,

gooey,

> not-sour stuff that doesn't pour, because it has some viili

bacteria in it

> (which has a different strain of Leuoconostoc Cremoris in it). This

makes

> it not very sour -- the lactose turns into polysaccharides instead

of

> lactic acid, so it is really mild. Running it through the blender

thins it

> right up: otherwise it has the consistency of kid's Gak (that slime

stuff

> they play with). I'm happy to share grains with anyone who wants

it, but

> it's one of those things you either love or hate! (we love it: we

didn't

> like " straight " kefir much).

>

> -- Heidi