Re: Kimchi- Too spicy!

[Guest guest]

>But, does the homemade taste different than the store bought types? Can

>it be made less spicy??? Thanks, Jafa

Hee hee. Yes, mine will burn your tongue off. But for the rest of the

family, I just add a little dill and garlic, no ginger or red pepper. You

don't have to add spices if you don't want.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>

> >But, does the homemade taste different than the store bought

types? Can

> >it be made less spicy??? Thanks, Jafa

>

> Hee hee. Yes, mine will burn your tongue off. But for the rest of

the

Heidi, can you send me your recipe? I LOVE spicy things and i've

tried to do some spicy veggie combinations (not really kimchi, but

close, cabbage, onion, jalepenos, spices) and it doesn't come out

hot! thanks,

[Guest guest]

>Heidi, can you send me your recipe? I LOVE spicy things and i've

>tried to do some spicy veggie combinations (not really kimchi, but

>close, cabbage, onion, jalepenos, spices) and it doesn't come out

>hot! thanks,

>

I'm writing up a little chapter on kimchi. I'll post it soon.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Thanks for your reply on the Kimchi and the water smokers. Do you know if they

make a water and dry smoker as one unit? Would save on the cost. I could see

using both for different purposes. Regarding the Kimchi, could you put in a few

non spicy recipes into your book, also. This would be most appreciated. Jafa

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>Heidi, can you send me your recipe? I LOVE spicy things and i've

>tried to do some spicy veggie combinations (not really kimchi, but

>close, cabbage, onion, jalepenos, spices) and it doesn't come out

>hot! thanks,

>

I'm writing up a little chapter on kimchi. I'll post it soon.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

>

> >Heidi, can you send me your recipe? I LOVE spicy things and i've

> >tried to do some spicy veggie combinations (not really kimchi, but

> >close, cabbage, onion, jalepenos, spices) and it doesn't come out

> >hot! thanks,

> >

>

> I'm writing up a little chapter on kimchi. I'll post it soon.

A few weeks ago I kimchi-ified a chopped up head of broccoli with

kimchi juice and a little extra salt. I weighed it down, and let it

ferment for three days. It fermented just fine, but the taste of the

finished product was vile (bitter and very strong tasting).

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>Thanks for your reply on the Kimchi and the water smokers. Do you know if

>they make a water and dry smoker as one unit? Would save on the cost.

You can supposedly use the unit without water, as a dry smoker. However,

when I did that it got WAY too hot, and the fat drizzled down onto the wood

and the whole thing caught on fire. Which a seasoned bbq person probably

would not do, they would be smarter, I think.

But really, what I'd like is a COLD smoker -- we were thinking of rigging a

pipe from this unit into a another closed unit, sideways, so it would get

the smoke but not the heat. Also the Brinkman is a cheap unit, really, and

if it gets too hot the paint peels. If I was going to WORK at all this, I'd

pile up some bricks, make a firebox ... I suspect you can make a real

decent smoker out of a pile of fireplace bricks for not much money, not

that I have the slightest idea how to do it.

> I could see using both for different purposes. Regarding the Kimchi,

> could you put in a few non spicy recipes into your book, also. This

> would be most appreciated. Jafa

OK.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>A few weeks ago I kimchi-ified a chopped up head of broccoli with

>kimchi juice and a little extra salt. I weighed it down, and let it

>ferment for three days. It fermented just fine, but the taste of the

>finished product was vile (bitter and very strong tasting).

So far nothing I've kimchi-ified by itself has worked as well as adding

whatever

it is to cabbage. I've come to believe that cabbage works miracles. Broccoli

in kimchi is great. Beets in kimchi are great. Even squid in kimchi is great.

None of them turns out good (for me!) on their own. So I'm half cabbage

half " other " at this point.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>I have found true korean stores to have the best selection of kim

>chi. i pay 10 dollars for half gallon, 15 for a gallon. But I also

>get these great big glass jars I use for fermenting our own food or

>storage. I find other asian stores often have a small selection of

>kim chi also. geez the stuff is addictive. at first it was painful

>to eat but I have even gotten used to the spicy kind and CRAVE it big

>time. its funny, I had a friend from korea come to visit for a few

>days, he even had to wash some of the spice off the red kind before

>eating. sooooo spicy

Hee hee. Yeah, the red pepper is addictive. I started making my own so it

wouldn't be " so spicy " . But now I'm learning WHY the Korean stores sell red

pepper by the 10lb bag !!!

(P.S. Bulk foods are MUCH cheaper in the Korean store I go to, at any rate.

BIG bags of seseme seeds, dried fish, dried seaweed, sea salt, and red

pepper. Mine also has a huge

variety of kimchi, a lot of it made in the store. It is loaded with MSG,

but the MSG doesn't seem to affect me and I don't eat theirs on a regular

basis).

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>Read

><http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030501075502.htm>http://www.scien\

cedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030501075502.htm

>and think about if you want to allow yourself to get addictive red

>pepper (any hot pepper?). I also read in a message on a discussion

>board

>(<http://askwaltstollmd.com/wwwboard/messages/167560.shtml)>http://askwaltstoll\

md.com/wwwboard/messages/167560.shtml)

>that

>capsaicin is known to be able to induce permanent inactivation of

>nerve fibers.

>

>Roman

Roman:

??? I'm not sure I get it. It SOUNDS like the rats that got pepper-juice

had lower levels of colitis (or I'm reading it backwards). So what's not to

like? If you have IBS, " deactivation of the nerves " might not be a bad thing.

==================

The researchers used three groups of rats. The first group was administered

capsaicin at birth, which chemically denervated them by " overstimulating'

the VR-1 receptors to the point of inactivating them permanently. They were

allowed to reach adulthood. The second group, which were adults, were given

the agent capsazepine (CPZ), a VR-1 antagonists which blocks the receptor.

The third group, the control, received no additional treatments.

" In the control rats, DSS caused active colitis with its trademark

ulceration of the intestinal lining, " Mantyh said. " However, the two other

groups showed significantly lower levels of disease. The treated rats were

protected from the damaging effects of DSS administration. This data

provides strong evidence that an animal model of colitis requires neurons

containing VR-1.

==================

I have read that pepper can cause some problems, maybe, but in general the

Koreans seem awfully darn healthy and kimchi seems to be a cure-all of

sorts. At any rate, my digestive system is practically back to where it was

when I was 17. What is odd is, I've been very prone to heartburn, and I

would *think* that a concoction of pepper, garlic, and ginger would

certainly cause heartburn. But I rarely ever get heartburn at all anymore

(and if I do, it is tea on an empty stomach that does it!).

>

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>

> Roman:

>

> ??? I'm not sure I get it. It SOUNDS like the rats that got

pepper-juice

> had lower levels of colitis (or I'm reading it backwards). So what's

not to

> like? If you have IBS, " deactivation of the nerves " might not be a

bad >thing.

Heidi,

I have two problems with this. The first one, less important, is

alleviating symptoms without addressing the root cause. It's known (at

least some believe it), that chronic stress can lead to IBS/IBD (IBS

is the same as IBD, isn't it?). Consider this sequence of events:

chronic stress->LGS->hypersensitivity->excessive inflammation and IBD.

If you suppress inflammation, you will improve the symptoms, which we

call IBD. But then if you live long enough, you will probably

experience other (probably more serious) problems caused by chronic

stress.

I don't believe that inflammation is a useless process in the body. I

remember argue that inflammation has a purpose, and the body

uses it for healing. Evidently inflammation can also be excessive and

cause problems. But inflammation becomes excessive because of

something, and it is wise, I think, to find the cause of that and

address it if possible before manipulating inflammation mechanism.

The second problem I have with that is that the nerves can be

deactivated permanently by capsaicin. Again, since inflammation is

created by the body for a reason, what do you get by disabling this

process? I've read that immune response goes hand in hand with

inflammation. Do you then interfere with the immune mechanism by

disabling inflammation? What else is effected?

We know that excessive blood clotting can be lethal. So, substances

that reduce clotting are taken. But, first of all, something usually

causes excessive clotting, and I don't think it's deficit of hot

pepper. And secondly, having no clotting ability can be lethal too.

Another good example could be inactivating pain receptors. When pain

is unbearable, perhaps, doing that is not a bad idea while you are

working to correct what caused the pain. But permanently inactivating

pain receptors could turn out to be deadly, e.g. you could get bitten

by a poisonous creature, not notice it, do nothing about it and die

because of it.

So, in the light of all that, do you still think that permanently

deactivating VR-1 receptors is necessarily a good thing? Now, I am not

saying this happens with amounts of hot pepper you eat. Maybe it does

and maybe it doesn't. I don't know.

Roman

[Guest guest]

Koreans have one of the highest rates of stomach (or bowel?) cancer in the

world. I think it was posted on this list a while back during the

discussion of Kimchi versus Kraut. I personally can't see eating tons of

red peppper as being healthy in particular if you suddenly start later in

life. But I do understand the addiction to Kimchi, the peppers raise your

endorphine levels (or whatever the brains natural pain killer is).

[Guest guest]

Top 5 Cancers for diffrent ethnic groups:

http://seer.cancer.gov/publications/ethnicity/topfive.pdf

Koreans have low cancer rates overall, but the highest rates of stomach

cancer.

New Mexico American Indians seem to be doing somthing right.

On Sat, 10 May 2003, Balbach wrote:

>

> Koreans have one of the highest rates of stomach (or bowel?) cancer in the

> world. I think it was posted on this list a while back during the

> discussion of Kimchi versus Kraut. I personally can't see eating tons of

> red peppper as being healthy in particular if you suddenly start later in

> life. But I do understand the addiction to Kimchi, the peppers raise your

> endorphine levels (or whatever the brains natural pain killer is).

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 10:23 AM 5/10/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Heidi,

>

>I have two problems with this. The first one, less important, is

>alleviating symptoms without addressing the root cause. It's known (at

>least some believe it), that chronic stress can lead to IBS/IBD (IBS

>is the same as IBD, isn't it?). Consider this sequence of events:

>chronic stress->LGS->hypersensitivity->excessive inflammation and IBD.

>If you suppress inflammation, you will improve the symptoms, which we

>call IBD. But then if you live long enough, you will probably

>experience other (probably more serious) problems caused by chronic

>stress.

Well, I agree with you on that one. My IBS wasn't caused by stress though,

it was caused by gluten/allergens, and it can take years to heal. Also I

don't know that the pepper is what is curing it -- I'm also eating butyrate

producing foods, foods that are low in quick-digesting-starch, and getting

tons of probiotics.

>So, in the light of all that, do you still think that permanently

>deactivating VR-1 receptors is necessarily a good thing? Now, I am not

>saying this happens with amounts of hot pepper you eat. Maybe it does

>and maybe it doesn't. I don't know.

I don't know either -- but my logic is the " Traditional Foods " one. It is

very traditional, esp. in hotter countries, and folks eat a LOT of it (more

than I do) and are healthy. Some people take " tonics " of ginger, pepper,

and garlic just for health, and others swallow pepper in tablets, because

it does have good effects. Likely, like most herbs, it has good and bad

effects, and the studies are mixed, so again, I fall back on the " what

works " principle: eating pepper works for a lot of groups of people.

BTW this is a great article on the healthiness of Korean food in general.

The Korean diet is pretty much straight out of WAPF, and I love the quote

below. The Korean diet is notable for its high levels of spicy kimchi, but

they also eat raw meat and organs lots of other good stuff.

---------------------

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/korean_beef.html

The waiters and waitresses at Gam Mee Ok look like they have just stepped

from the pages of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration – all have

beautifully white straight teeth, well formed faces and graceful, muscular,

lean physiques. In general, Koreans have good teeth, at least compared to

the Japanese.

--------------------------

A lot of the spices are anti-inflammatories, anti-parasitic, and kill bad

bacteria, and many of them probably deaden nerve endings -- but most

populations eat a LOT more spice than Americans typically do.

Significantly, the European diet is very, very low on spices, and also

supports some of the least healthy people.

The stomach cancer issue IS an issue, and there may well be a connection

there -- there was as study with Mexicans and pepper too. Overall, stomach

cancer rates have been falling though, all over the world -- the cause is

still not well known, may have to do with talc on rice, salt, slightly

spoiled food, alcohol consumption, heliobacter. Korean red pepper is a bit

lower in capsiacin than Mexican peppers -- it is more like paprika: the

food gets spicy because a LOT of it is used.

What I found *really* interesting about the study was that they could

induce colitis so effectively with a sulfur compound. Makes me wonder if

the high prevalence of colitis may have to do with some food additive ...

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>>>>Top 5 Cancers for diffrent ethnic groups:

http://seer.cancer.gov/publications/ethnicity/topfive.pdf

Koreans have low cancer rates overall, but the highest rates of stomach

cancer.

-------------->i looked at the data and i don't think this conclusion is

valid..at least with the data this particular article provides. The only

data for Koreans is under the heading, " Five Most Frequently *Diagnosed*

Cancers " .

48.9 per 100,000 Korean men were diagnosed with stomach cancer compared to

30.5 for Japanese men, 25.8 for Vietamese men, 15.3 for Hispanic men (are

they not likely to be eating hot peppers??), 16.2 for white hispanic men,

27.2 for Alaskan Natives, 17.9 for Black men, 15.7 for Chinese, and 20.5 for

Hawiian.

But for Korean *women* only 19.1 per 100,000 were diagnosed with stomach

cancer as compared to 15.3 for japanese, *25.8* for Vietnamese, 13.0 for

Hawiian, and no data were provided for women of the other ethnic groups.

here's why we can't draw any solid conclusions from this article that eating

kimchi, and in particular, eating red peppers, causes stomach cancer:

a) not nearly enough data points to begin with! especially for women, for

whom data for only *4* ethnic groups were provided AND Korean women were

diagnosed with stomach cancer 20% less than Vietnamese women.

as Ravnskov pointed out in The Cholesterol Myths, different cultures may

diagnose certain diseases at different rates, with american doctors much

more inclined to diagnose heart disease than MDs in other countries, for

example. So *diagnosis* alone doesn't provide very solid evidence that one

country actually *experiences* a higher incidence of a disease over another

country.

c) since Koreans don't eat a purified laboratory diet with kimchi as the

only variable, and every other country doesn't eat the purified laboratory

'control' diet, it's impossible to point to just ONE element of the diet

and/or lifestyle and say " that's why this group has a higher incidence of

being diagnosed with " x " disease as compared to these 3 other groups. "

There are probably other reasons that this article cannot be used in an

argument against regular kimchi or hot pepper consumption, but i think

that's enough to get the idea. I think the only thing in regards to Koreans

and stomach cancer that can be concluded from this article is that, in the

years between 1988-1992, Korean men were the most frequently diagnosed with

stomach cancer of the 9 groups for which data are provided, and that Korean

*women* were diagnosed with stomach cancer more frequently than were

Japanese and Hawiian women, but *less* frequently than Vietnamese women.

period.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>>Koreans have one of the highest rates of stomach (or bowel?) cancer in

the

world. I think it was posted on this list a while back during the

discussion of Kimchi versus Kraut. I personally can't see eating tons of

red peppper as being healthy in particular if you suddenly start later in

life. But I do understand the addiction to Kimchi, the peppers raise your

endorphine levels (or whatever the brains natural pain killer is).

-------->actually, the study that Heidi posted showed just the opposite. it

showed that kimchi was more protective of cancer than plain ol' kraut, and

stated that Koreans have one of the lower levels of bowel cancer.

in fact, part of the authors' conclusion reads:

" The results confirm experimentally the epidemiological evidence that kimchi

consumption correlates with a low incidence of colon cancer in Korean

population groups, and they support existing recommendations for Korean

people to consume 150 - 200 g/d/p kimchi. "

see post: /message/19149

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

oh sorry that wasn't clear...your whole post read:

>>>>

> Top 5 Cancers for diffrent ethnic groups:

http://seer.cancer.gov/publications/ethnicity/topfive.pdf

Koreans have low cancer rates overall, but the highest rates of stomach

cancer.

New Mexico American Indians seem to be doing somthing right.

On Sat, 10 May 2003, Balbach wrote:

>

> Koreans have one of the highest rates of stomach (or bowel?) cancer in the

> world. I think it was posted on this list a while back during the

> discussion of Kimchi versus Kraut. I personally can't see eating tons of

> red peppper as being healthy in particular if you suddenly start later in

> life. But I do understand the addiction to Kimchi, the peppers raise your

> endorphine levels (or whatever the brains natural pain killer is).

so when i said

-------------->i looked at the data and i don't think this conclusion is

valid..at least with the data this particular article provides.

i meant, the implied conclusion that eating kimchi or red peppers causes

stomach cancer.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

At 01:24 PM 5/10/03 -0400, you wrote:

>>>>>Top 5 Cancers for diffrent ethnic groups:

>

><http://seer.cancer.gov/publications/ethnicity/topfive.pdf>http://seer.can

cer.gov/publications/ethnicity/topfive.pdf

>

>Koreans have low cancer rates overall, but the highest rates of stomach

>cancer.

A dear Korean friend of mine died from stomach cancer about 4 years ago. She

ate our foods and Korean foods including kimchi. She might have made it if the

dr. here hadn't removed part of her stomach on exploratory. The med center she

went to after went through the roof with that treatment. They did consult

another hospital as this cancer is prevalent in Korean Americans. She refused

chemo and radiation, got some Korean medicine, went into remission, and it

came

back. A week before she passed she was doing her own dishes. She did tell me

when she was a child during the Korean War her family survived on roots while

trying to keep away from the war. It's vague but I almost remember her husband

saying the experts consulted were linking it to an Agent Orange like substance

used in the Korean War.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>There are probably other reasons that this article cannot be used in an

>argument against regular kimchi or hot pepper consumption, but i think

>that's enough to get the idea. I think the only thing in regards to Koreans

>and stomach cancer that can be concluded from this article is that, in the

>years between 1988-1992, Korean men were the most frequently diagnosed with

>stomach cancer of the 9 groups for which data are provided, and that Korean

>*women* were diagnosed with stomach cancer more frequently than were

>Japanese and Hawiian women, but *less* frequently than Vietnamese women.

>period.

Thanks Suze!

Anyway, it seems to be one of those controversial issues. It may be dosage

related -- like booze -- wine in moderation seems to be healthy, but large

amounts kill you. I kind of suspect that if you eat lots of pepper when

your gastric mucosa are damaged (maybe by heavy drinking or smoking, which

is why the guys have more problems) then the pepper can damage your stomach

-- normally I'd think the gastric mucosa wouldn't let any capsaicin through

to the stomach itself (and if the lining is damaged, all that HCL is a

problem anyway!). As for me ... well, those Koreans really *look* healthy,

they are doing something right.

http://www.wrc.net/phyto/Cayenne.html

Medical research:

·Cancer: Capsaicin has been studied for its effects on cancer, often with

conflicting results. While early experimental evidence suggested the

moderate tumorigenicity of capsaicin, more recent research suggests that

capsaicin has substantial antigenotoxic and anticarcinogenic effects, and

is an important dietary phytochemical with potential chemopreventive

activity (Surh et al 1998). Researchers report that capsaicin appears to

interact with xenobiotic metabolizing enzymes, particularly microsomal

cytochrome P450-dependent monooxygenases, which are involved in the

activation and detoxification of various chemical carcinogens and mutagens

(Surh and Lee 1995). Capsaicin has been shown to be a potent in vitro

inhibitor of human and murine epidermal metabolism of benzo(a)pyrene (BP)

and the enzyme-mediated binding of BP metabolites to DNA (Modly et al 1986).

Gastrointestinal: Researchers have determined that the gastric and duodenal

mucosa contain capsaicin-sensitive (CS) areas that are involved in a local

defense mechanism against ulcer formation. The stimulation of these CS

sensory nerves with low concentrations of capsaicin have been shown to

protect the rat gastric mucosa against injury produced by different

ulcer-promoting agents (Abdel-Salam 1997). In contrast, very high levels of

capsaicin appear to have the opposite effect (Abdel-Salam 1997; Maggi et al

1987; Dugani and Glavin 1986). The gastroprotective effect of capsaicin is

thought to involve an enhancement of mucosal microcirculation, effected

through the release of mediator peptides from the sensory nerve terminals,

and is independent of sympathetic stimulation or the induction of locally

acting prostanoids (Abdel-Salam 1997). Capsaicin has also been shown to

have a protective role for CS sensory nerves in the colon (Abdel-Salam

1997). Generally, capsaicin appears to inhibit gastric acid secretion when

introduced into the stomach of rats or cats (Abdel-Salam 1997). Capsaicin

has also been shown to inhibit the growth of Helicobacter pylori, a

bacterium associated with ulcer formation ( et al 1997).

·Nervous: Capsaicin has been used for a number of years as a neurochemical

tool for studying sensory neurotransmission. In particular, capsaicin has

been shown to promote the release of substance P from sensory neurons, a

neuropeptide involved in the sensation of pain. The local application of

capsaicin cream (1%) has been noted for its ability to deplete local stores

of substance P when applied repeatedly over a period of days (Yoshimura et

al 2000). Taken internally, capsaicin has been shown to evoke catecholamine

secretion from the adrenal medulla of pentobarbital-anesthetized rats

(Watanabe et al 1987), accounting for its stimulant properties that many

people equate with caffeine-containing beverages.

·

·Cardiovascular: Capsaicin has been shown to significantly lower serum

triglyceride levels in male rats fed a diet containing 30% lard, as

compared to controls, when supplemented at 0.014% of the diet (Kawada et al

1986). Juvenile guinea pigs fed a cholesterol-enriched vitamin C deficient

diet, and concurrently treated with dihydrocapsaicin (8 mg per animal per

day) were shown to exhibit significantly lower serum triglyceride

concentrations when compared with controls, comparable to controls fed a

regular diet (Negulesco et al 1989). Similarly, when capsaicin and

dihydrocapsaicin were used to treat turkeys fed a cholesterol-rich diet,

both were shown to significantly lower VLDL-cholesterol levels and increase

HDL-cholesterol as compared to controls. Dihydrocapsaicin in particular had

a greater efficacy in producing beneficial anti-hyperlipidemic effects in

the cholesterol-fed animals (Negulesco et al 1987).

·Respiratory: Cayenne has been shown to exhibit a protective effect on the

respiratory system. Local or systemic pretreatment with capsaicin can

reduce vascular permeability and edema caused by histamine, bradykinin and

cigarette smoke (Chow and Biggs 1986; Lundberg and Saria 1983; Lundberg et

al 1983). Capsaicin appears to activate antioxidant systems and stabilize

lung membrane lipids, protecting against edema and lipid peroxidation

induced by respiratory irritants (Tilgner 1999, 49).

Also it seems to lower blood sugar and a bunch of other stuff:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~gcaselton/chile/health.html

[Guest guest]

Wonder what the stomach cancer statistics are for Mexican people? Know I've

read incidence of ulcers is extremely low because capsaicin from the

peppers in

their diet kills the h.pylori bacteria responsible for most ulcers. Hot

peppers

and spices are used in many southern latitude cultural foods and countries.

Besides warming from within to keep the body from being hot in the weather I'd

think because these are the general slow metabolic types capsaicin would keep

the metabolism from becoming too slow.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

> (P.S. Bulk foods are MUCH cheaper in the Korean store I go to, at any rate.

> BIG bags of seseme seeds, dried fish, dried seaweed, sea salt, and red

> pepper. Mine also has a huge

> variety of kimchi, a lot of it made in the store. It is loaded with MSG,

> but the MSG doesn't seem to affect me and I don't eat theirs on a regular

> basis).

>

>

> Heidi S

Heidi,

I used to buy seaweed from Asian shops too, but I have to recommend

Maine Seaweed Co (<http://www.alcasoft.com/seaweed/>) because the prices

are actually are about the same as typical packages in the stores, but the

quality is way higher. It's organic and the guy seems to have extremely

high standards of quality, a paragon of idealistic small business

completely in-line with NT and worthy of support. Actually, I think

it's listed in NT. It comes in one-pound bags and it's not cut-up into

small pieces. It's incredible stuff. Everyone should be using some in

their stocks!!! It makes herbal teas taste better too.

About the MSG: is it listed on the label of the kimchi, or are you just

able to detect it? When I've bought kimchi from Korean stores it never

listed MSG, but I've wondered about it since you've mentioned in posts,

and I can't tell by tasting.

I just made a huge batch of lf wild garlic today. Can't wait to see how

it turns out. It's my first time. My previous lf experiments (various

kimchis, sauerkraut) have been mediocre, except the garlic and

ginger/garlic ones, which are awesome. I've got a **great** organic

veggie source down the road now, so I can't wait till fall to make enough lf

cabbage for the following year.

Mike

[Guest guest]

>Actually, I think

>it's listed in NT. It comes in one-pound bags and it's not cut-up into

>small pieces. It's incredible stuff. Everyone should be using some in

>their stocks!!! It makes herbal teas taste better too.

It IS good stuff. I don't eat it much at the moment (experiment) because it

is supposed to make DH worse (dermatitis herpetiformis, which I get a little).

>About the MSG: is it listed on the label of the kimchi, or are you just

>able to detect it? When I've bought kimchi from Korean stores it never

>listed MSG, but I've wondered about it since you've mentioned in posts,

>and I can't tell by tasting.

It is listed, but no, I can't tell by tasting. Nor do I get " the shakes "

from it (which I do sometimes from MSG flavoring. So maybe it gets eaten by

the bacteria. It really is interesting -- I react to a lot of foods

(usually by a kind of gut cramping, gas, headaches, whatever) but I never

have to kimchi regardless of the source.

>I just made a huge batch of lf wild garlic today. Can't wait to see how

>it turns out. It's my first time. My previous lf experiments (various

>kimchis, sauerkraut) have been mediocre, except the garlic and

>ginger/garlic ones, which are awesome. I've got a **great** organic

>veggie source down the road now, so I can't wait till fall to make enough lf

>cabbage for the following year.

I was sent an article about onion kimchi, which I just can't imagine

myself! Did you just ferment garlic all by it's lonesome? I got a recipe

for pickled ginger ala sushi-style, which is fermented, I'm going to try it

and if it works I'll post it.

http://www.agrafood.co.kr/HTML/kimchi.htm

>

Onions are known to have good effects in preventing high blood pressure,

arteriosclerosis and other geriatric diseases. A substance in onions called

¡®selenium¡¯ also has such effects as controlling cancer, disinfection,

detoxification and improving the body¡¯s immunity. And, herbs are effective

in alleviating fever, curing headaches and improving the body¡¯s immunity.

To make the ¡®Onion Herb Kimchi¡¯, onions are first skinned, and then

soaked in water (or in vinegar) for one day. The onions are taken out of

the water and soaked in a 1.3% brine solution, for 2 hours. Then they are

mixed with red pepper powder, salted anchovy sauce and powdered rosemary

leaves. As for the proportion between ingredients, for each 5 kilograms of

onions 8 liters of brine are needed, and 150 grams of red pepper powder,

600 grams of salted anchovy sauce and 300 grams of powdered rosemary leaves.

In a sensory evaluation on different herbs for the kimchi, rosemary was

found to be the most suitable. The herb also enables the kimchi to be

stored for a longer period of time at room temperature.

It is the Hansung Food Co., Ltd.(HFCL) that has the right to market ¡®Onion

Herb Kimchi¡¯. According to the company¡¯s managing director Mr. Kim

Soon-jin, HFCL has sent samples of the kimchi to foreign buyers. They

generally liked the special new kimchi, except for the pungent quality of

the red-pepper powder. And, some buyers mentioned that they would seriously

consider importing the kimchi, if the pungent taste could be overcome.

--- See, I guess a lot of people don't like red pepper :-)

[Guest guest]

>linking it [stomach cancer] to an Agent Orange like substance used in the

>Korean War.

>

>Wanita

That is interesting Wanita. In particular when these same stats show

elevated rates in Vietnam as well, perhaps a connection, Thanks.

--

[Guest guest]

> >I just made a huge batch of lf wild garlic today. Can't wait to see how

> >it turns out. It's my first time. My previous lf experiments (various

> >kimchis, sauerkraut) have been mediocre, except the garlic and

> >ginger/garlic ones, which are awesome. I've got a **great** organic

> >veggie source down the road now, so I can't wait till fall to make enough lf

> >cabbage for the following year.

>

> I was sent an article about onion kimchi, which I just can't imagine

> myself! Did you just ferment garlic all by it's lonesome? I got a recipe

> for pickled ginger ala sushi-style, which is fermented, I'm going to try it

> and if it works I'll post it.

>

> http://www.agrafood.co.kr/HTML/kimchi.htm

Yeah, I've fermented a bunch of garlic by itself, without cutting the

cloves at all, but the really delicious stuff is the finely chopped

half-and-half garlic and

ginger. I used whey and celtic sea salt, but I'm experimenting with using

only one or the other to see how taste is affected.

By the way, my lf wild garlic might be a failure. I tried some and the

fermentation went well and the flavor is fantastic (couldn't tell any

difference between the salt-only, whey-only, and mixed salt+whey batches),

but it is too fibrous and unpleasant to chew. The solution might be to

use only the small younger ones, but it takes a long time to gather. I'll

let it age for a few months and see if the texture improves.

Mike

[Guest guest]

>Yeah, I've fermented a bunch of garlic by itself, without cutting the

>cloves at all, but the really delicious stuff is the finely chopped

>half-and-half garlic and

>ginger.

My kimchi is very full of both of those, and the juice makes a great

flavoring agent. The ginger and garlic (my two favorite spices) are already

there! I keep a jar of it handy. Fermented garlic keeps a lot longer than

fresh garlic, I've noticed -- Costco has huge containers of peeled garlic,

and ginger is cheap -- fermenting them both to keep around sounds like a

great idea.

Ginger also keeps well if you submerge it in vodka. The vodka thus produced

isn't half bad either.

-- Heidi