Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hi Andy, I work as a freelance medic and since the ALS Lifeskills/Scarborough relationship fell through, I too have been unable to find anyone in the UK who is willing to accept " non-NHS " individuals for these placements. Various issues seem to prevent this, insurance being the biggest one followed by theatre time. I believe that even some NHS Ambulance Service Trusts have been finding it difficult to get thier paramedics placements. No one has been openly hostile or rude, it just seems that these opportunities are not available anymore. Like you, if anyone on the list knows where placements can be organised I would be very keen to hear about this. I am surprised no one has spotted the obvious business opportunity/income generation from this. There must be lots of people in our industry needing this and it could provide hospitals with additional income for very little effort I would have thought. Regards and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Dave, There a few problems with getting placements, mainly this is, as you correctly state, liability. Also, the contractual issues between the department(s) in the hospital and the training provider and candidate. The number of hoops that a trust has to go through to get a candidate in for a placement are plenty. A number of training establishments do arrange placements, but these tend to be as part of an existing course. Maybe it may be worthwhile contacting some of the remote medic friendly providers such as the rig medic, dive medic trainers and also Ex-Med in Hereford. Certain training centres do not understand remote medicine and if they do, tend to be pretty useless at assisting those with non-standard (in their eyes) qualifications. That comment is directly aimed at one establishment who has managed to successfully push away business at an alarming rate. I am working on something with one of the Remote Medics team on placements and so far we are moving to get some theatre time for graduates of the basic surgical skills course. Hopefully our first candidate will have his temporary contract sometime in the near future so that he can practice some suturing and wound closure in theatre. Much of this can happen because the student has been assessed by the same person who is supervising them in the OD. I have asked that we also look at cannulation and intubation blocks and there is a developing possibility of this if specific anaesthetist colleagues can be scheduled. It is very early days, but we may have something to offer later in 2005. Cheers, Ross > > > > Hi Andy, > > I work as a freelance medic and since > the ALS Lifeskills/Scarborough > relationship fell through, I too have > been unable to find anyone in the UK who is > willing to accept " non-NHS " individuals > for these placements. > > Various issues seem to prevent this, > insurance being the biggest one > followed by theatre time. I believe > that even some NHS Ambulance Service > Trusts have > been finding it difficult to get thier > paramedics placements. > > No one has been openly hostile or rude, > it just seems that these > opportunities are not available anymore. > > Like you, if anyone on the list knows > where placements can be organised I > would be very keen to hear about this. > > I am surprised no one has spotted the > obvious business opportunity/income > generation from this. There must be > lots of people in our industry needing this > and it could provide hospitals with > additional income for very little effort > I would have thought. > > Regards and best wishes for Christmas > and the New Year. > > Dave. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 I have been on both sides - I was a diver medic in the 1980's and now I am a military anaesthetist seconded to the NHS. A lot has changed in the last 10 years - what medics want (or are asked to get) for initial training/re-qual is ETTs. What we do for 8/10 procedures today in modern anaesthesia is regional (spinal/epidural) or LMAs. Further - simply having medics in for single skill intubation work without the bigger package of training involving critical care and comprehensive airway training (LMAs, conscious sedation, nasal airways etc etc) probably represents unjustified clinical risk. So you do 20 ETTs in 2 weeks - does that make you good at airway management? Or should it be 50 or perhaps a logbook of 100 different airway cases. Having a complete package of training with careful selection of supervisors and cases would make the whole thing risk justified - but this takes a lot of time and work. When we get Ambulance paramedics in or Military CMTs/MAs etc it fills already overfull days! If the independent sector wants the NHS to supply training to this degree it will have to pay - but probably a lot more than it costs now. You have to pay the Trusts to re-task trainers to admin such courses, or provide a near full-time liaison person to work with the hospitals. Lastly what must not happen is that it lowers patient throughput. We all accept that independent medics etc need as good training as NHS staff but from the secondary care point of view providing such training is far from easy and ultimately the supervising anaesthetist accepts the liability if anything goes wrong. It is much harder to accept that risk is the training programme as a whole seems incomplete. Dr Brando Tamayo SURG LT CDR Royal Navy Re: Clinical Placements Hi Andy, I work as a freelance medic and since the ALS Lifeskills/Scarborough relationship fell through, I too have been unable to find anyone in the UK who is willing to accept " non-NHS " individuals for these placements. Various issues seem to prevent this, insurance being the biggest one followed by theatre time. I believe that even some NHS Ambulance Service Trusts have been finding it difficult to get thier paramedics placements. No one has been openly hostile or rude, it just seems that these opportunities are not available anymore. Like you, if anyone on the list knows where placements can be organised I would be very keen to hear about this. I am surprised no one has spotted the obvious business opportunity/income generation from this. There must be lots of people in our industry needing this and it could provide hospitals with additional income for very little effort I would have thought. Regards and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 You dont have to stay in the uk, its probably just as cheap to take a couple of weeks in one of the hotspots around the world, have all your tubes and needles done and certified by a doc and then come back. HPC are more than happy with this type of thing. If you are an independent practitioner you are your own business, so you need to do what ever it takes to get it done or you go out of business, get abroad and claim the VAT back !!!! Dinger -- Rich Bell SR Para Remote And Hostile Environment Specialist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Hi Ross, Would be very interested in this if it can be developed. The cannualtion and tubes would be great if this can be done and I think would be universally welcomed.As I said in the original post finding places to do this is very very difficult so any help in this direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the info and have a good christmas. all the best, Andy RE: Clinical Placements > > Dave, > > There a few problems with getting placements, > mainly this is, as you correctly state, liability. > Also, the contractual issues between the > department(s) in the hospital and the training > provider and candidate. The number of hoops that a > trust has to go through to get a candidate in for > a placement are plenty. > > A number of training establishments do arrange > placements, but these tend to be as part of an > existing course. Maybe it may be worthwhile > contacting some of the remote medic friendly > providers such as the rig medic, dive medic > trainers and also Ex-Med in Hereford. > > Certain training centres do not understand remote > medicine and if they do, tend to be pretty useless > at assisting those with non-standard (in their > eyes) qualifications. That comment is directly > aimed at one establishment who has managed to > successfully push away business at an alarming > rate. > > I am working on something with one of the Remote > Medics team on placements and so far we are moving > to get some theatre time for graduates of the > basic surgical skills course. Hopefully our first > candidate will have his temporary contract > sometime in the near future so that he can > practice some suturing and wound closure in > theatre. Much of this can happen because the > student has been assessed by the same person who > is supervising them in the OD. > > I have asked that we also look at cannulation and > intubation blocks and there is a developing > possibility of this if specific anaesthetist > colleagues can be scheduled. It is very early > days, but we may have something to offer later in > 2005. > > Cheers, > > Ross > > > > > > > > > > Hi Andy, > > > > I work as a freelance medic and since > > the ALS Lifeskills/Scarborough > > relationship fell through, I too have > > been unable to find anyone in the UK who is > > willing to accept " non-NHS " individuals > > for these placements. > > > > Various issues seem to prevent this, > > insurance being the biggest one > > followed by theatre time. I believe > > that even some NHS Ambulance Service > > Trusts have > > been finding it difficult to get thier > > paramedics placements. > > > > No one has been openly hostile or rude, > > it just seems that these > > opportunities are not available anymore. > > > > Like you, if anyone on the list knows > > where placements can be organised I > > would be very keen to hear about this. > > > > I am surprised no one has spotted the > > obvious business opportunity/income > > generation from this. There must be > > lots of people in our industry needing this > > and it could provide hospitals with > > additional income for very little effort > > I would have thought. > > > > Regards and best wishes for Christmas > > and the New Year. > > > > Dave. > > > > > > > Member Information: > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > > Post message: egroups > > Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > Regards > > The Remote Medics Team > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Hi Dave, Nice to hear from another person in the same boat !As you say no-one is openly hostile etc but all you get is the word 'No!' every time! If I hear anything i will of course let you and the list know.Just out of curiosity whereabouts do you work ? all the best for Christmas and the New Year Andy Re: Clinical Placements > > > Hi Andy, > > I work as a freelance medic and since the ALS Lifeskills/Scarborough > relationship fell through, I too have been unable to find anyone in the UK who is > willing to accept " non-NHS " individuals for these placements. > > Various issues seem to prevent this, insurance being the biggest one > followed by theatre time. I believe that even some NHS Ambulance Service Trusts have > been finding it difficult to get thier paramedics placements. > > No one has been openly hostile or rude, it just seems that these > opportunities are not available anymore. > > Like you, if anyone on the list knows where placements can be organised I > would be very keen to hear about this. > > I am surprised no one has spotted the obvious business opportunity/income > generation from this. There must be lots of people in our industry needing this > and it could provide hospitals with additional income for very little effort > I would have thought. > > Regards and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year. > > Dave. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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